Why this nonsense all over these forums about "forcing" relationships to last??

[squirrels]

A relationship either works or it doesn't. It is NOT an entity unto itself, it's a sum of the parts. The parts being YOU and the GIRL.

There's a reason all the guys who are "successful with women" created these "communities" based on the notion of seduction and romance, rather than "relationships". Relationship is a BS word...a label fabricated to identify the association between two individual people as some kind of measurable social construct. It's a joke in bad taste.

When people talk about "their relationship", I just shake my head. There is nothing wrong with "your relationship", thus there is nothing to FIX about it. The relationship is just YOU and HER.

Either there's something you feel is wrong with YOU, meaning the person you WANT to be is not congruent with the person you ARE (which you have the power to fix), or there's something wrong with HER...i.e. she is not the right companion for the life you live.

Be the man you want to be, romance women you want to romance, and if a relationship forms, work with it as long as it lasts.

There's an old Zen koan that goes as follows:

A monk, asking for instruction, said to Bodhidharma:
"I have no peace of mind. Please pacify my mind."
"Bring your mind here before me," replied Bodhidharma, "and I will pacify it!"
"But when I seek my own mind," said the monk, "I cannot find it."
"There!" snapped Bodhidharma, "I have pacified your mind!"

The idea, if you can get it, is that when the monk searches for his "mind", he can't find it. The REASON that he can't find it is because it doesn't really exist. His "mind", so-to-speak, is nothing more than a label to separate the universe into "my mind" and "not my mind"...this dichotomy allows rational thought, but in turn it also separates the entity from its nature, causing discord. In discovering that his "mind" does not really exist, the monk no longer has any need to pacify it.

The idea of "my relationship" is very similar. The word "relationship" is used to turn the natural flow of a man and a woman interacting with each other into a "noun", a distinct THING.

The reason we do this is because once the relationship is a "THING", it can theoretically be manipulated distinctly from the individuals which comprise it.

Once you've made a distinction between the "relationship" and the individuals "in the relationship", it supposedly allows you to deal with the relationship as an entity unto itself. It's not that "you are not right for the girl" and must be fixed/abandoned, nor is that "the girl is not right for you" and must be fixed/abandoned. Instead, the "relationship is not right".

An entire industry springs up dedicated to this notion of the relationship as an entity unto itself. Everything from gifts to activities to travel promises to "enhance the relationship". Professional therapists promise to "fix broken relationships". Magazines and media sell themselves on being able to "make your relationship work/work better".

Thus two people continue to wallow in discontent. If they are not happy with who they are and what they bring each other, they have no motivation to change, because "the relationship" can be repaired without them having to change at ALL. If they are happy with who they are and what they bring, but are not happy with this partner, it doesn't matter, because "the relationship", the interface-layer if you will, can be customized to accommodate this.

The "relationship" is seen as an entity that must be preserved at all costs...because to recognize the "relationship" for what it IS, a name for a process between two people, would force responsibility back on the people involved in it.

Just thinking out loud. Your thoughts welcome. Just irked by when I see:

1) People acting like "the game changes once you're in a relationship". Strategies may change, but tactics remain the same. Too many people using "relationships" as an excuse to revert to chumpish or silly behavior.

2) People in relationships that aren't meant to be...and simply refusing to acknowledge it until the truth jump-kicks them in the face. Acting like the "relationship", as an entity, is important, and pouring all kinds of energy into it that could be spent living life. Sometimes when you don't end up living "happily ever after" with a girl, it's not a "relationship problem". Sometimes she's just not right for you. There's no "shame" in that.

You're on this planet for about 70-80 years, on average. Romance isn't THAT big a deal.

 

[boomerick]

Squirrels,

You're absolutely right. The biggest mistake anyone can make is to think 'game' (or whatever you want to call it) stops and 'relationship' starts.

ALSO most threads I've read here the guy is looking outward for the cause of his problems instead of inward at his behaviour.

 

[zekko]

Either there's something you feel is wrong with YOU, meaning the person you WANT to be is not congruent with the person you ARE (which you have the power to fix), or there's something wrong with HER...i.e. she is not the right companion for the life you live.

Yeah, I agree. A relationship either works or it doesn't, the two of you are compatible or you're not. Forcing two people together who aren't a good fit will only result in bad things.

 

[Jitterbug]

Because we're bombarded with the "relationship is hard work" meme. So guys do what we do in everything else: tough it out, try to keep it going as long as possible.

 

[radiodude]

I take a slightly different approach. Sure, if it's just not working, then it's not meant to be, no doubt.

But I also realize that our society has lost it's sense of perserverence, particularly when it comes to marriage. BF/GF type stuff granted.....it's either there or it isn't.

I have to give some guys credit though for at least trying once to salvage something that may be just a misunderstanding. If you put your best forward and nothing still happens then by all means, walk away.

Bear in mind, people nowdays are extremely hard to please. If it takes a shred of effort or sacrifice, most run the other way.

Alot of this applies to marriage more than just a 'relationship' but like I said above, I don't fault some guys for giving it a try. The key is to realize when to move on. Too many guys try and try and try wayyy longer than necessary.

 

[squirrels]

But I also realize that our society has lost it's sense of perserverence, particularly when it comes to marriage. BF/GF type stuff granted.....it's either there or it isn't.

You're right. But remember, BF/GF comes before marriage. So if it's not there when you're BF/GF, you have to recognize and address it THEN, BEFORE rushing into marriage, or even commitment at the BF/GF level.

Marriage is too casual in today's world. Heck, "commitment" is too casual. People naturally think that everything has to flow from "date" to "BF/GF" to "marriage" and that failure to reach the next level is some kind of personal failure. Not so. It MAY be related to a personal problem, but at least then you have the opportunity to LEARN from it. Whereas if you try to "save it", you're not allowing yourself to fail, and thus not learning anything. Then when it breaks down, you blame "the relationship".

I believe that two people can enjoy several layers of relationship, but any given two will not be always be able to enjoy ALL layers. That doesn't, however, mean that you should throw the baby out with the bath water.

Some women will only make "good friends". Others will make good lovers. Some will make great life companions. But not every woman who is a great friend or a great lover will turn out to be a great life-companion. And there's NOTHING WRONG with that, so long as you continue to be who YOU think you should be.

 

[Scaramouche]

Dear Squirrels,
Don't you think you are over intellectualising what are a few reasonable if conjectural points?your Zen analogy makes as much sense as tits on a Bull,because something is rather complex to understand,doesn't necessarily make it profound...Relationships are necessary and do need work, Why?...If you want anything it comes at a price,except for a small minority of Ladies,if you want svs,they will only perform on a regular basis if they dignify their involvement by calling it a committed relationship......As time passes, they will want to tie you up more and more,and lean on you to marry them,then things become problematical......Playing along with this relationship concept keeps them happy....Failing this,it's back on the Dating Game every month.....Sure when you are young,meeting new Ladies the thrill of the chase the eventual seduction is immensely thrilling and satisfying,but after you have taken out say fifty Birds,It becomes bluddy hard work,your experience makes you realise they are all very much Sisters under the skin and pink inside,the whole thing has a certain inevitability to it,its expensive,time consuming and often very frustrating,as for the boredom and risks to your health that's another issue.....This is the time,to settle to one for your Bread and Butter,For your Jam there are always distractions,this will give you time for your hobbies,your reading and self development,all those things,which tend to be sidelined when you are chasing tarts.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

intimate male female relationships are difficult because:

-Most people think they are scarce, so they tend to hold onto them longer than they should

-they remind men and women on a deep subconscious level of "mommy" and "daddy" respectively, which are always there, and require no work, only the other person doing all the work.

-with the recent (last generation or so) breakdown in traditional judeo/christian values, there is less external pressure to stay in a relationship. This requires personal responsibility to keep one going, which most people ain't got. Most people want good/pleasurable results without effort

As with anything else, pre screening and qualifying, along with a clearly defined idea of what you want are the best tools.

Most people just want to "be in a relationship" so they can get the good stuff without putting forth any effort. The problem is most people are very vague, even with themselves about what they want specifically from a relationship, or their partner in the relationship.

There's a collective idea of "relationship" that everybody has, which generally means good intimacy, emotional support, friendship, but nobody really does has anything specific when it comes to clarification of what those extremely vague terms mean.

If you have a solid idea of not only what you want in a relationship, but what you want in your partner, then "keeping the relationship alive" will be irrelevant.

It will either satisfy your criteria or it won't.

Of course, this is extremely difficult when millions of years of evolution kick in, and that girl that would easily disqualify on paper gives us "that look" and we quickly convince ourselves she could be "the one."

Then the chase,and all the bullshyt, begins.