Why spirituality is important

[Wubbman]

Philosophical book? It is philosophical but so is your science book. The funny thing is the Bible is THE SCIENCE BOOK. It is THE HISTORY BOOK. Infact it is more credible then the very books your teacher gives you every time you begin a new school year. As far as not believing one part and not the other... why would you? Seriously, ok you believe in hell and satan... then you must believe in a God and heaven. If you believe in a God and heaven then you must believe in what he says, because all scripture is "God Breathed". If that's true then you must believe in God's only son and the whole schabang.

PHAT Rabbit, the Bible tells of history, but it is not a reliable history book. Of course it is important in telling the story of Jesus, but it is not the definative history book. Take the story of Moses and the Red Sea. There is not one shred of physical evidence that that event occured. Or take Jesus' life. Why is it that the Bible tells the story of Jesus' birth, but not of His child hood? Why are there almost no stories of His adolescence (besides the story of Him as a 12 year old boy with the priests in the temple)? If the Bible is "THE HISTORY BOOK," then why are there holes in the life story of the greatest man to ever walk the earth? (not sarcasm) The Bible is not a reliable history book, and to treat it as such is dangerous, simply for the fact that someone with too much power may take it too literally.

quote:
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It has been written also by human, therefore there might have been error, misinterpretation, etc.
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Ahh, obviously you are not well versed in this book either. Did you know the biggest evolutionists of our era read the bible? Why, because it has everything in it! It is the most read book of our time, why would you not take time... even if you don't believe it to read it. It was written by GOD the very ruler of the universe. His words are strong and he is the greatest of everything of all time.

Now onto your quote... As I have said earlier, "All Scripture is God Breathed." What does that mean? It means the men who wrote this book were moved by the holy spirit(GOD). Every single word was God breathed, to perfection exactly how God wanted it to be.

The Bible was not written by God. God inspired men to write it, but He did not write it Himself.
I'm sorry, but it is an ignorant, dangerous notion to think that the Bible has not been touched by human error. Everything people make is flawed, everything. You say above that (God-inspired) men wrote the Bible, therefore, the Bible is a human creation (the Bible is the word of God, but it wouldn't exist without the hand of man, nor would it have reason to exist). Thus, the Bible is flawed, just like every other human creation.
It is very unresonable to think that the Bible you and I read today is the same Bible that was around 1500 years ago (keep in mind, it was not written all at once and the Bible we recognize did not appear for sometime after the Resurrection, it is a collection of works that run from well after Christ all the way back to Moses, who authored Genesis, and it is safe to assume that those works were passed down orally for sometime before finally being written down). In short, the Bible is the word of God, but it is marked by the hand of man, and is not infalible in the least.

 

[chalk]

One thing, and probably the ONLY thing i like about Christianity and religion in general is the way is allows people to detatch themselves from thier problems and the problems around them.

The reason most of these people are so happy is because they've surrendered themselves to some exteral source, an omni-potent being who controls everything and has a plan behind every action and for every person. It's a comforting thought, i would imagine, to believe that no matter what happens, no matter what unsettling events unfold around you, God has it under control, and even if you don't like it there's nothing you can do about it so why worry!! Gods got it sorted. You've released your ego and handed your fate over to God, and since you believe in him 100% then nothing that happens can faze you.

I believe this is the reason behind the happiness people experience in every religion, and if it works then brilliant, the imposing, intrusive and violent side effects of some religions create is unfortunate.

 

[Lionheart]

Hahahahhahaha Lionheart, that was your 666th post. I was just starting to like Zen, but that makes me wonder

Yes, I also noticed this after I had posted it...quite the ****ing coincedence huh?

 

[pdw]

This is just my humble opinion on some of the things said here.

First: Buddhists don't worship Ghandi. Ghandi was an Indian man in the early 20th century who protested the British control of India through non-violent means. He did hunger strikes. In fact, he was Hindi. He has nothing to do with Buddhism. Buddhism does not have god in the western idea. A god is something you can be reincarnated to (if you believe in reincarnation) but this only lasts a lifetime and Gods have no influence in humans’ lives. In Buddhism, gods did not create the world, it always existed. About Buddha, Buddha was alive about 500 years before Jesus in India. He was a prince name Sidhartha Gautoma who lived a sheltered life but saw suffering and wanted to find a solution. He meditated under a Boddhi tree for six years and became enlightened and for forty-five years till his death he taught the Noble Eightfold Path. He taught nothing about God, the afterlife or creation. He did speak a little about reincarnation and karma but this was a product of his environment (he was originally Hindi) but this comprises little of his teachings. The elements of reincarnation and karma were added later by other people. But, Buddha was NOT a god. He was a man like you or me. He is not worshiped like a Christian would worship Jehovah. What Buddha taught is a lifestyle, NOT religion. The Dalai Lama or Panchen Lama also are not gods. In fact, removing the parts about sin, the Son, creation, and a few other things the message is almost the same as Christianity. If you want a good comparison between Jesus and Buddha read Living Buddha, Living Christ by Thich Nhat Hanh. For good overviews of Buddhism read How to practice or the Art of Happiness by the Dalai Lama or The Heart of the Buddha's Teaching also by Thich Nhat Hanh.

About Answers in Genesis: Most of their arguments are very simplistic and most of their science is flat out wrong. They do bring up a few scientifically accurate and interesting arguments (mainly about the addition of material and data to the genome) but they have been proven wrong. Basically, you can't take Genesis literally including the creation and the flood. There is a reason there isn't creationism 101 in college and its not that there is a conspiracy against them. For good resources read Science Confronts Creationism, Finding Darwin's God, and for good point by point answers visit www.talkorigins.org .

Where did disease and death come from: Disease and death are not evil, wrong things, they are life. Death happens because of several reasonsr bodies are not perfect, DNA doesn't always copy right( though this is sometimes a good thing), you get eaten, etc. When a lion kills a Thompson's Gazelle to eat, he is not doing this maliciously. Death from old age though often painful is not malicious. Disease comes from mistakes in our own bodies and organisms who have adapted to use our bodies for resources. Death and disease are not mythical things. Its life.

My personal Philosophy: This is solely my own opinion, take it as you will. I personally believe that there is a way to live to be happy. Whether you read the Bible and Jesus’ stories, the Buddha's sutras, the Koran and Mohammed, the works of Confucius and Lao Tsu (who’s work a Treaste on Response and Retribution is actually the #1 book ever written despite what the New York Times will tell you) they all make the same points. Love others above yourself. Don't hold on to materialistic things because they are empty. If you try, you can be a happy person and have a fulfilled life. They just take slightly different methods to reach these goals. I am not taking the Unitarian approach and saying they are all literally true. These people were great men we can all learn from. Was Jesus God's son? I don't know, but he was a great man who taught great things and I still love him.

All this applies to our pursuit of becoming DJs. If you want it, you can be it. Just have hope. You will become.

I'm out.

 

[Lionheart]

The very fact that Phat rabbit thought that Gandhi was a buddhist and not a Hindu just illustrates to me that he has no idea of where he speaks, and his opinions should be somewhat disregarded from now on until he figures out what he is talking about.

He's probably thinking of the Dalai Lama, who is meant to be the reincarnation of the Buddha...

 

[Wubbman]

People, this has gone from a semi-educated debate on religion to a slug-fest of religious zealots over who is right. At least know what you are talking about before you write about it (Ghandi and Buddhism!?!?). You know, there isn't a thing wrong with looking at other scientific and religious texts; it will broaden your horizons and prevent you from making an ass out of yourself and losing credibility in discussions such as this. Impressing your own religious view point on others in an extreme fashion will only serve to push people away from you and the religion you champion.

 

[Wubbman]

Cripes matey. Are you wasting my time? You know what I mean, don't be all analytical.. because I don't have time for that. Obviously the bible = the bible, don't try to make me look like a fool! All I will say is that, evolution... much of it has been disproved. The "science books" I get are chalked full of evolutionary lies. Disproven and out of date theories. History says we date back to a monkey, right?!?! I dont think so. Funny how science/history books must change every year, but the bible has stood firm since day 1, which was much earlier than any of those books or our conception of science even began.

PHAT Rabbit, did it ever occur to you that God could have created man through evolution? Before you talk of evolution, I think you would do well to read the theory. We do not date back to monkeys. The theory is that monkeys and men came from a common ancestor, not that men evolved from monkeys.
I think you would also do good to study cultures that came before the time of the Bible. Science was around long before the Bible. The ancient Greeks came up with the idea of the atom as the smallest building block of matter (though we know now there are smaller building blocks). Mathematics were in use before the Bible (geometry is a science). In the future, I think it would be best for your credibility if you didn't make such broad generalizations.

 

[Smooth as Anything]

Damn, the original post was pathetic.

 

[Lionheart]

Wubbman :
"People, this has gone from a semi-educated debate on religion to a slug-fest of religious zealots over who is right."

Yes, and it scares the hell out of me that I am starting to preach either Zen Buddhism or Atheism, nothing pisses me off more than smug preachers who think they know it all, so i am gonna stop after this post.

"PHAT Rabbit, did it ever occur to you that God could have created man through evolution?"

Congratualations, not many people come to the conclusion that you have just come to.

I've always said all along that it is very strange that people think that evolution and creation are mutally exclusive, God could have set evolution in motion and sat back to see what happens.

For example I was considering writing a reply to the ****ing moron who wrote this - http://quo.cc/atheist.htm. I wrote a little and think I'll finish it tomorrow.

At first glance it appears to have sound arguments, however it is not difficult to see how arguments such as Principle of Entropy in systems that tend towards infinity, Natural Selection and Agonostic Atheism easily demolish these points.

The funny thing is that the argument contridicts itself, it claims that unless you have 100 absolute knowledge of the universe it is impossible to prive God does not exist - AND THEN GOES ON TO USE A STATEMENT "You are like a man who looks at a building, and doesn't know if there was a builder."

The above statment is an incorrect comparision and as a result is complete toss, this invalidates 50% of the article, and the rest based on objectivist and quasi-chaos theory principles, but the writer has read the idiots guide to them and not TRULY understood them.

It pisses me off, when will christians stop trying to win over more true believers by making themseleves out to be rationalists?

The simple truth is that they have to stand up at the end of the day, no matter how hard they try (and fail) to argue their points rationally and say "My beliefs are irrational and cannot be proven but still I believe!".

"The ancient Greeks came up with the idea of the atom as the smallest building block of matter"

Yep, and who's to say that we didn't evolve from atoms to the ultra complex chemical structures we are now?
It's merely a question of abstraction.

A good analogy is computer science.

A computer just works with Zero's and One's, these mean jack**** on their own, but get enough of them together (and computers can work with a bloody lot of 1's and 0's) and you can create massively useful process - but this all depends on one key principle : How the data is structured.

The human organism can be seen to be similar, thanks to it's enomormous chemical makeup and extremley complex structure, we have truly become more than the sum of our parts.

It could be argued also (though it's a bit 'out there'.) that as chemicals in certain configurations create life, then all chemicals can be said to be inherently alive.

I believe that if their is a God, then he actually created us through evolution by setting the first checmial reactions in motion, this would also give a meaning of life by seeing what happens as organisms get more and more complex.

Whoa.

 

[oOh Nasty]

Originally posted by pdw
This is just my humble opinion on some of the things said here.

First: Buddhists don't worship Ghandi. Ghandi was an Indian man in the early 20th century who protested the British control of India through non-violent means. He did hunger strikes. In fact, he was Hindi. He has nothing to do with Buddhism. Buddhism does not have god in the western idea. A god is something you can be reincarnated to (if you believe in reincarnation) but this only lasts a lifetime and Gods have no influence in humans’ lives. In Buddhism, gods did not create the world, it always existed. About Buddha, Buddha was alive about 500 years before Jesus in India. He was a prince name Sidhartha Gautoma who lived a sheltered life but saw suffering and wanted to find a solution. He meditated under a Boddhi tree for six years and became enlightened and for forty-five years till his death he taught the Noble Eightfold Path. He taught nothing about God, the afterlife or creation. He did speak a little about reincarnation and karma but this was a product of his environment (he was originally Hindi) but this comprises little of his teachings. The elements of reincarnation and karma were added later by other people. But, Buddha was NOT a god. He was a man like you or me. He is not worshiped like a Christian would worship Jehovah. What Buddha taught is a lifestyle, NOT religion. The Dalai Lama or Panchen Lama also are not gods. In fact, removing the parts about sin, the Son, creation, and a few other things the message is almost the same as Christianity. If you want a good comparison between Jesus and Buddha read Living Buddha, Living Christ by Thich Nhat Hanh. For good overviews of Buddhism read How to practice or the Art of Happiness by the Dalai Lama or The Heart of the Buddha's Teaching also by Thich Nhat Hanh.

About Answers in Genesis: Most of their arguments are very simplistic and most of their science is flat out wrong. They do bring up a few scientifically accurate and interesting arguments (mainly about the addition of material and data to the genome) but they have been proven wrong. Basically, you can't take Genesis literally including the creation and the flood. There is a reason there isn't creationism 101 in college and its not that there is a conspiracy against them. For good resources read Science Confronts Creationism, Finding Darwin's God, and for good point by point answers visit www.talkorigins.org .

Where did disease and death come from: Disease and death are not evil, wrong things, they are life. Death happens because of several reasonsr bodies are not perfect, DNA doesn't always copy right( though this is sometimes a good thing), you get eaten, etc. When a lion kills a Thompson's Gazelle to eat, he is not doing this maliciously. Death from old age though often painful is not malicious. Disease comes from mistakes in our own bodies and organisms who have adapted to use our bodies for resources. Death and disease are not mythical things. Its life.

My personal Philosophy: This is solely my own opinion, take it as you will. I personally believe that there is a way to live to be happy. Whether you read the Bible and Jesus’ stories, the Buddha's sutras, the Koran and Mohammed, the works of Confucius and Lao Tsu (who’s work a Treaste on Response and Retribution is actually the #1 book ever written despite what the New York Times will tell you) they all make the same points. Love others above yourself. Don't hold on to materialistic things because they are empty. If you try, you can be a happy person and have a fulfilled life. They just take slightly different methods to reach these goals. I am not taking the Unitarian approach and saying they are all literally true. These people were great men we can all learn from. Was Jesus God's son? I don't know, but he was a great man who taught great things and I still love him.

All this applies to our pursuit of becoming DJs. If you want it, you can be it. Just have hope. You will become.

I'm out.

couldn't have said it any better.

 

[Wubbman]

You are exactly right, Lionheart. Many of the beliefs of Christianity cannot be proven conclusively (ie, Jesus dying and then rising from the dead after three days). That is why they must be taken on faith, not logic.

I do find it hard to imagine why more people don't see God in a different light. God is the greatest scientist, chemist, and engineer, ever. He made a universe that abides by certain physical laws He put into place. There is absolutley no reason he could not have created us through the process of evolution.

 

[Wubbman]

What are the pitfalls? Apart from the time frame the Bible sets up (6 days to create the universe, earth, and all lifeforms on it, but I have my own personal theory to explain the time frame), what are the pit falls? I'm not quite sure that evolution and creation conflict as much as you think. I haven't done an extreme amount of research on it, but I think if you look at the fossil record, you would find that at one period in time there was nothing, no life to be found. And then suddenly, life in great abundance appears. No one ever said that evolution was not guided by the hand of God. I would be genuinly interested in the scientific findings that discount evolution.

I disagree that discounting Genesis destroys the foundations of the Bible and Christianity. Christianity is not founded on the creation story, but on Jesus' ministry on earth. The creation story is an important part, but it does not account for the basic message of Christianity.

Don't worry about the mix up with Buddhism. It was the manner in which you were speaking that drew such an angry reaction.