Why should men be the pursuers?

[Wildebeest]

alpha males are limited, so women will settle for men who are less alpha, as previous posters have mentioned, this is especially true as they age and their attractiveness drops.

but does this stop them from having affairs with alphas ? no.

advantages of dating a beta male/ nice guy: he is easy to manipulate, he provides stability to her, can be used as an emotional tampon.

disadvantages: he is weak, he may have lesser genes, unattractive as defined.

advantages of alpha male: obvious. may have better genes, confident, sexy, attractive

disadvantages: limited in supply.


how do women solve this problem of demand, supply and maximize their overall reproductive value?

Settle down with a nice beta guy and use him to provide shelter and emotional suppport; whilst continuing to take hard alpha **** on the side.

This way, the woman has the best of both worlds, she has environmental stability, emotional comfort from the beta; and a supply of superior genetic material from the alpha.

around 10% of children are not sired by the men who bring them up.

you may say that the alpha wont always be genetically superior, this is true, and women also have an answer for this. They may ignore the nice guy and withhold sex indefinitely. However upon ****ing the alpha, the will run to the beta male and immediately **** them to take their sperm. So that their sperm may compete. See 'Sperm Wars'. The best sperm will impregnate her on average.

Is the woman consciously aware of this? no. The need to **** her beta after ****ing the alpha manifests as guilt, shame and fear that she may lose her environmental stability that the nice beta provides.

 

[Wildebeest]

actually dont read sperm wars, it made me depressed

 

[Robert28]

Evolution and psychology explain how men and women behave to each other. Not bronze age fairy tales.

lol you might have evolved from moneky's but i didn't. i'll stick with my "fairy tale", thanks.

 

[Wildebeest]

lol you might have evolved from moneky's but i didn't. i'll stick with my "fairy tale", thanks.

haha stick your head in the sand, cool strat. I wish I was sufficiently dumb enough to pull that one off, I wish that every day of my life.

 

[LostAndConfused]

^ True.

But only in the small off-chance that the beta is better. As we all know, girls have more orgasms with alpha bulls. It takes 2 minutes to impregnate a girl who orgasmed vs. 45 minutes for the non-satisfied. A pity/guilt fvck doesn't really get girls' juices flowing. It's pretty much a consolation bang after she's already cheated. The beta already lost the race before the gun even went off.

sc: http://www.mendeley.com/research/female-coital-orgasm-and-male-attractiveness/
http://iplayhewaits.blogspot.com/p/orgasm-wars-real-purpose-of-female.html?zx=91faa5977237d46a

:EDIT: Also think about all of the guys who read videos and material on how to "properly make your woman orgasm." Sure they can make her finish by licking her nether regions but it doesn't compare to the timing of orgasms from the real thing. Beta still loses in this regard too.

 

[Wildebeest]

yea when she doesnt orgasm, the sperm isnt actually taken any further up, it just sits inside of her and gets later ejected as 'flowback'

 

[MrJibbles]

actually dont read sperm wars, it made me depressed

I lol'd. In a sad kind of way, unfortunately. The truth hurts and ignorance may be bliss, but knowledge is power. And that article about how a women responds more to a man's physical attractiveness than his investment in the relationship was also a bit depressing.

But I find this all very enlightening... I will read Sperm Wars as soon as I can. I believe all of this knowledge on the fundamental basis of our evolutionary psychology and sexual nature will ultimately empower us, although it may be tinged with pain.

Just remember guys, everyone who came to this site did so because they WANTED to get better with women, improve their game, improve their relationships, etc. Most guys out there really are AFCs who have no clue. All of this information should help us in the long run and change the way we interact with females for the better.

 

[floydb25]

You guys are still generalizing, and talking about a specific kind of woman. Yes, there are some like this, definitely. But here's what I noticed in the years of dealing with women... Most of them want a decent guy who is also hot. Looks play a major role in deciding who a person is going to date - male or female. Since most hot people are douche bags and *******s - they opt for a decent nice guy instead. They realize changing the hot bad boy is futile; they're not going to be faithful; they're not worth keeping around for the long-term; they aren't going to treat them right and stop loving only themselves; etc. They also learn that charm and excitement isn't enough to last; that infatuation and lust isn't love.

I don't think its as simple as ****ing around with *******s when they're hot and in high demand - then settling for nice guys when they're older and worn out. Yes, it might seem that way when you look at it like this. It's just that things are different when you're younger. You want the hottest, coolest guy or girl. Then you realize, after chasing them for years, that they're no good for the long-term.

Remember that your mind doesn't really mature until you hit 25-30. You don't think about things the same way. Nor do you even care when you're younger. You just want to have a good time, and end up mistaking excitement for quality. In fact, you're so caught up in the lust and excitement and rollercoaster of emotions that you don't realize just how horrible this person is for you. Everyone starts out naive and oblivious to the world. These girls actually WANT to settle down with the hot bad boys when they're younger - it just doesn't happen. So, its not as simple as whoring around - they just jump from one hot ******* to the next - only to be left alone and heart-broken time and again. That's when they change, and "settle" - though not in the way most people make it out to be.

These are things you learn as you age, mature, and experience them. You realize what is good and what is bad. This applies to both genders. I sure know I did the exact same thing, so I can relate to women who do this. I don't view it as settling for the average nice guy or girl. Moreso realizing that the hot ones aren't going to be nice or decent. You want both, but its very hard to find both. You wanted the hot one to be relationship / marriage material, and busted your hump trying to do so, but its just not going to happen. Some people are LTR worthy, and some are not. Those who attract us in a big way initially usually are not. They're just exciting.

Also, all the popularity, status, superficiality, "alphaness"... None of that is important when you get older. You just want someone who is decent. This is when a lot of people change their standards, and look for something different. You're no longer fooled by looks, game-playing, attention whoring, players, and fake *****es. Nor do you have the patience for this kind of bull****.

I don't think its as complicated as you guys make it out to be. Most people just stop being shallow, and go for who is right for them - instead of who turns them on the most. They also realize that bad boys and alphas are no good for the long-term, so they just have fun with them in the short-term. They no longer spend years wasting their time trying to change and love them, and use them for all they're good for instead. This is generally during single periods, in-between relationships. Most older people do NOT get heavily involved with the same type of person they did in the past.

Most of the decent folk go after the hot and exciting people for a while, realize they're no good, and never go back. The key is that they're decent people. Most everyone goes through this phase. The not-so decent ones just keep making the same mistakes over and over - because they have issues (especially from their parents, and are still seeking approval from *******s in adult relationships), low self-esteem, are troubled, need chaos and drama, etc. Most people are not this way, and do not chase after the alphas or bad boys for long.

Realistically speaking: once someone hits the age of 14 or so - you are NOT going to be not settling for so-called leftovers. Everyone dates and has a number of relationships throughout life. But there is a certain kind of person who DOES settle, use, manipulate, and cheat on nice guys after years of dealing with *******s. But these girls are usually *****es and bullies themselves. Gotta watch for these types, because they do exist. They're not hard to spot, though. A ***** is a *****.

But, I don't think its as simple as "all women are *****s; nice guys finish last". That's just a simple, close-minded, shallow way of looking at it. But interestingly, these simple-minded people make it out to be so much bigger than it really is, and spend all this time trying to become some kind of king pin. Quite the paradox.

It really isn't that difficult or complicated. Generalizations and stereotypes come from failure. A lot of stuff is pretty basic; many people ARE in decent, boring, every day relationships. You don't have to be this perfect guy who does everything right. And actually, that just makes you look fake, which isn't going to land you a relationship in the first place. Becoming the alpha / bad boy is just gonna land you lots of flings with shallow, low quality women. Oh, the irony... Spending all that time generalizing, and overhauling yourself - only to attract trash, and lower yourself to their so-called standards.

It's not so cut and dry, and you reap what you sow.

 

[Down Low]

Well we all know, what Don Juanism is about, you have to be the prize.

The prize of whom? Adults who act like children even when they know better?

What I would like to ask you is how the fvck society / men in general got into this situation.

Generally, the decline of Western civilization. Rome degenerated the same way.

All I see around me is men behaving like they are not good enough FOR women... I see guys spending hours in the gym, only to lay women who are completely out of shape, and whose effort to getting better is minimum.

I agree with the suggestion in this thread that most normal people become self-aware (or socially conscious or whatever you'd call it) at some point in their young adulthoods. Not all, and never early enough to spare the feelings of others. However, the pressure to dummy down causes otherwise smart, savvy adults to fail to stand out. Men also seem wholly ignorant of the need to step back and have a sense of perspective about others (rather than striving only to satisfy one's own wants and needs). When you can't identify a superior mating partner, you must mate with an inferior one.

Hmm. Isn't that what women always complain about? "There are no good men." So they turn their noses up at the legions of mediocre suitors, and go make themselves available to gutter trash. In response, the mediocre suitors play various stereotyped roles of dishonorable sorts. But then, don't the fearful put on leather jackets, while the truly mentally and physically tough guys tone it down with sweaters? Yes that's so. The "good men" always did, and always will, look and act like gentlemen.

To be identified as a superior mating partner, act in a gentlemanly manner at all times.

 

[floydb25]

(Continued from previous post.)

Guys are definitely not alone in this line of thinking, though. I can't tell you how many girls claim that nice girls finish last, and try acting like fake *****es / sluts instead. I dated a bunch of them, and was not impressed at all. They were absolutely convinced that being good is unattractive, and so, completely changed their game around. The problem was the kind of people they sought after, and were attracted to. They didn't realize this, and generalized everyone as a whole - based on their own experiences. "All guys want is skanks and *****es", they would say. Yeah, no.

Interestingly, these people couldn't understand when being a ***** or skank didn't work - because not everyone is the same. It only attracted the same kind of people they wanted to avoid, and didn't work to change them. They thought otherwise, because its all they knew.

Truth is, most people are flawed. It's not always the other person's fault, and its not as simple as them being shallow and wanting *******s or skanks. Their personality might suck; they are whiney and clingy; etc. They probably aren't as nice and wonderful as they think they are, either. Many of them are approval-seeking, co-dependant, desperate, and other unattractive traits.

No one takes *******s seriously. They just have to improve their natural traits, and become more appealing in this regard. But they have to look inward; stop generalizing, and stop blaming everyone else for their own faults instead. Otherwise they're just going to keep around in circles. Self-realization HAS to come at some point.

 

[Chamber36]

most hot people are douche bags and *******s

Are you saying there's a positive correlation between good looks and douchebaggery??

Are you saying: the better looking a person is, the more likely they are to be insensitive towards others??

Because if that's what you're saying I'd like to let you know I disagree.

IMHO the correlation between good looks and douchebaggery is a negative one. Meaning, the better looking a person is, the LESS likely they are to be a douchebag.

Conversely, the uglier a person is, the more likely they are to project their insecurities on to others, thus making their so-called douchebag factor INCREASE.

I see it all the time at work. The uggo's won't even look at me or greet me because they're insecure. They're insecure, so they use "false confidence" aka arrogance.

Real goodlooking people are confident enough to let themselves shine through and they often are more courteous than the ugly people. Of course there's plenty of HB9's that act arrogant, but they're usually regulars in the club. And the uggo's that are regulars at the club, those are Attention *****s. So either way, the regulars suck.

The real causality that leads to douchebaggery, is a high frequency of attending a venue. It leads to an inflated self-image and unrealistically high standards.

If the girls are out-of-towners, and they're goodlooking, those are the best girls you could possibly find in the venue. They're nice, friendly and everything!

It's the ones that attend regularly that are sh!t. Doesn't have anything to do with looks.

 

[ositosucio]

I ave bad news for you ...

in a lot of countries, women do the pursuing, feminism is frowned upon and the whole thing is they was it was supposed to be since adam and eve.

Examples: Chile, Argentina, other south american countries tons of Caribbean countries ( I'm from cuba ), central america, Asian countries, etc.

AND the women doing the pursuing are HOT WOMEN waaaaayayyy hotter than here. Somebody said in a different post that a 10 in the US is a 5 in many other places and that is true. Just get out there and you'll see the farce this country is, politically, economically, and in the dating game. In many societies women know and value a quality guy. They respect men and know their place. Not in a lower positions, an equal position but of less power if that makes any sense.

 

[Mike32ct]

Women should pursue men. It only makes sense.

All you hear is some version of "Women are the choosers/selectors.". Ok, fine. Then they should pursue who they chose.

Now, to some extent, they already do pursue men (in the US), but it's limited to the top 10 or 20 percent of guys, plus some social circle hookups thrown in for good measure. Notwithstanding, a lot of women still don't pursue men because of society programming and because most don't have to and don't want to face rejection.