Why Openers don't work for Nerds

[everywomanshero]

I never thought I would have to post this, but apparently it needs to be explicitly stated. There is a reason why nerds can't make openers work.

They say them at random and have zero conversational skills!

Maybe for the newbie mission this might be useful so the tool isn't excusing himself for not having a perfect opener. However, not all openers are general purpose openers. They will not all work as well even though you may pull it off regardless.

For example the spells opener is very good for women who are laid back, artsy, or new agish. However, I don't think it's particularly good for snobby, upscale women in an environment that encourages them to be even snoobier. Now, some tool will post "but I did it and xyz". Yes, so have 10,000 other guys, but it still isn't ideal for that situation.

I can make the who lies more opener work like mad cash when I'm standing next to my wing. However, it's a rather crappy opener to use when I'm alone. Will it work? Probably but it's not ideal. There is something that's just not quite as good about it.

There is a certain amount of social intelligence required to start conversations with strangers that you cannot ever understand by reading a book. Unless you go up to random people for an extended period of time no one is going to be able to explain this to you. I know most people with this problem won't understand this post, only guys who have witnessed you doing it will even realize it is a factor.

You need to be able to start conversations with people without seeming like a weirdo. If you just spout out **** at random with no idea why you are saying it, then I assure you that you ARE going to seem like a weirdo. There is a reason why I say certain things to certain women. I "cold read" her before I ever utter a word. It happens in a fraction of a second.

Artsy or New AGish girl = On the fly opener about her blue hair or Spells opener

Girls walk by while I am chillin with wing = who lies more

Girls in bookstore = use book as a prop.

Don't know what to do = Open Direct or Situational Opener

Women reading romance novel = "Hey, did you know more paper is printed for romance novels than all other books combined. Yea, I know this because I used to work for XYZ publisher and ......."

Do you see that I have a socially acceptable reason for using these specific openers on these specific girls. It isn't just random shyt flying out of my mouth for no particular reason. That wouldn't make any sense.

We've taken "any opener can work" too far. Yes, it might work but there is something less cool about it. You're already starting off by being creepy and displaying poor social intelligence. In an effort to sound macho, we've encouraged guys to overlooks their complete lack of understanding communication which is ultimately what lead them to use in the first place. The opener does matter to some degree. Yes, any opener may work, but some are better suited to XYZ situation than others. Don't loose your common sense and be a seduction literalist.

I'm sure 99% of the forum already knows this, but it just know became apparent to me that this is actually happening with guys who just read "The Game" or something.

 

[LeviathanIYG]

I like "hi" or "hey" or even sometimes "hello" those are the bes openers ever.:yes:

But you are totally right man.

 

[R3bel without cause]

My buddy used the "who lies more" opener, and the girl responded by: "I got that opener a week ago, and it ended with the guy getting my number."

I think if you're still focusing on openers, then you're not seeing the big picture. In my (humble) opinion, openers work best for Nerds, because they are like helpers to help you break out of your shell.

Dont use them too much though, cuz in the end, people can easily tell you are not congruent with the opener. If you are not ****y or funny or confident, and you just memorized the words of those who are and spit it back out, you're fooling no one.

However, once you get confident by doing enough openers, I believe you can basically make up your own, be creative, and it is at that stage that you can say anything and make it a good opener.

My 2 cents.

 

[everywomanshero]

Number closes from newbs are virtually worthless. Women who go out alot give out #s to get rid of guys, sometimes even fake ones. Most guys # close their first night in the field, even total nerds. If the girl doesn't get out a lot, she may even let him pursue her.. Even a club makeout doesn't mean that much. Fvcking women is what matters.

Yes, any opener can work. It is still better to open correctly with something that isn't a huge show of social retardation. You don't have to focus on the opener at all, it only takes a split second and you're already in a routine that's leading somewhere, directing the conversation where you want it to go. It's automatic, a programmed response, not something that is thought of, it just happens.

What I am seeing is guys who just run out a yell "XYZ opener" at random. There is no rhyme or reason to it, and it's not leading anywhere but a flakey phone number or a chic who suddenly has to use the restroom. AT least your guy followed up with something to get a number. What I believe is happening right now is guys read the game and go shout openers at random hoping it will somehow hypnotise the chic into dropping her panties. What's worse is they are seduction literalist and will quote some Jedi master as giving them a green light to continue being socially illiterate. O well, enough time and flakes and they will put 2 and 2 together. In the meantime, lookout for guys tipping over for extreme shoulder leans and asking educated, snooty women what to do about their friend who lives in a tent.

 

[diplomatic_lies]

I dont think its the opener that's the problem, its the way people say it.

 

[duttylove]

dont project your self as a nerd and you wont come across as one. OR go for nerdy girls some of them can be HOT.

 

[snobby]

I dont think its the opener that's the problem, its the way people say it.

Yeah. Voice tone plays a bigger role than what you actually say.

Personally I never use "openers." I did in some occasions when I felt it was needed, but normally I just start conversations with men and women with just a simple 'hey.' Then I always start a conversation using as bait what is happening at that moment. For example, if I was in a plane and I talked to another passenger, I would try to start a conve about the trip, the business trip, the holiday, and from there I could lead to all different situations. Note that I'm not giving that example for attraction, I'm talking about social skills generally...you need to gain those FIRST and then use ****y and funny stuff etc for women.

Now if I told you that I used to be a little nerd once who wore glasses, was over-weight and had no social skills, and I'm now the opposite would you believe so? Well, that's the reality. My point is that basically anyone can change by practice and experience. I started talking to people who approached me first, or more often started talking more to my parents and friends, then I started meeting new people thru friends, then started meeting total strangers, then I started to approach anyone I could find. And this change took me about 4 years...I probably sound like DeAngelo lmao.

But all you gotta do is just force yourself and do it. No one said you have to appraoch about anyone, but at least be able to have a normal conversation and be social...then women are next on the list. :rockon:

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

dont project your self as a nerd and you wont come across as one. OR go for nerdy girls some of them can be HOT.

It's all because incongruence; that's the reason why lines seldom work. Just because a line reads well, if the personality of the guy doesn't fit, it just sounds stupid. This is the problem a lot of guys have when running patterns, they are saying the words however they aren't living them.

 

[resilient]

My buddy barely finished reading me a line from my buddies cell Saturday night: "It's your smile.... I can tell by your smile, you're not a very friendly person," when I turned completely sober to a bombshell blond walking by with her friends and read her the opener. She turned into me, pushed me up against the brick wall and twisted my nipples and continued to walk away. "I can't believe that guy said that to me." Talk about a neg!!! I wanted to put my arm around her lol, but she ran off before I can react to her reaction. It wasn't a smooth pick up line, but it beats "Can I buy you a drink" any day. :crackup:

But... back to openers, I"m thinking of ditching them and going back to my natural style because these women aren't really interested in who lies more men or women or if my buddy wants to buy a blue backpack vs. a red one for himself.

I will have this to say, if you practice your openers delivery constantly and on a ton of sets, your success rate will go up after you become more congruent with what you have to say.

Like a poster said above, it's about body language and voice tone. You should illicit a response to ignite their attraction mechanism and make them feel SOMETHING, anything. Once you got them hooked you can then follow with "So... how does everyone know each other?" Bamn. If you got hook, you can stay in the set.

BELIEVE in and practice your openers if you really want to get hooked into a set and not crash and burn. Start with a mirror first or video tape yourself so you can watch your expressions. Good luck.

 

[Macgyver]

I don't agree that openers don't work with "snobby/upscale" women and it only works for "artsy/relaxed" women. Each person is different, you should learn to read body language and intuitively interpret what type of communication style they prefer.

For instance, I am uncomfortable dealing with people who use aggression or passive ways of communicating but I do very well with assertive and more confident individuals.

 

[SynapsyS]

Take a leaf out of standup comedy books: following a "hi" or "hello", observational humour is a killer. I find openers end up sounding exactly what they are: rehearsed. If you can keep a conversation going purely on observations of what's around you, and on the clues she's dropping, then you're way ahead of guys who use openers IMHO.

But that's really only my opinion. I don't doubt the effectiveness of some of the openers, but like everywomanshero said, you have to judge which one to use. And that makes the whole thing too formal for me.

Syn.

 

[everywomanshero]

I don't agree that openers don't work with "snobby/upscale" women and it only works for "artsy/relaxed" women. Each person is different, you should learn to read body language and intuitively interpret what type of communication style they prefer.

For instance, I am uncomfortable dealing with people who use aggression or passive ways of communicating but I do very well with assertive and more confident individuals.

Sure openers work with snoby upscale women, but not some **** about a guy ina tent at a wine bar. Go try it and see for yourself. I've seen a guy trying this! When we switched his opener he started opening to something more relevant for this setting. She cannot have some loser talking about guys in tents infront of her friends. He was dressed down a little bit for the ocassion too, perhaps had he been overdressed he could've gotten away with that one.

What I said is that the spells opener works better on artsy/new age women then in the above situation. Go field test it, I've done this literally hundreds of times. It will open most in that setting, but you will also get some more bad responses than with more laid back chicks who are more likely to find that sort of thing interesting. I'm field testing on close to a dozen women a day, 3-4 days a week.

One of the problems with seduction literalism is that we begin to take something that is *basically* true and try to overapply it. It becomes a blinder people wear. Yes, I usually walk through the mall and I make things up on the fly as it applies to the situation, however, there is a few things I tend to base my openings on. It's still an opener, I'm just making it more situation relevant. I will also use a situational opener if it makes sense and is good. I've laid girls off of these too. I mentioned some specific opener like spells because it is very good in bookstores and clubs.

Just asking a woman what kind of freaking sandwhich she's eating or why she's eating alone could be your opener and that would work fine. However, if you say something that makes you appear like a social retard for that situation you aren't going to get the response you're seeking unless you've got a hell of a lot else going for you, and you're actually going to have to go out and try this stuff to figure that out 2-4x a week, 6-12 approaches per outing. Sales people and hired help if you're in the mall are warmups, but sooner or later you have to go approach some real women.

 

[Thomas94305]

Guys.. openers are simply a tool. If you're in a situation, and conversation doesn't flow quickly, you can pull up one of the canned openers to kick start stuff. As for nerds, it probably doesn't work for them caz they're .. inexperienced. Nerds tend to be smart. With some practice they'll get it. Crap, isn't posting to a bulletin board nerdy? We're dissin on nerds, but are they us? Whatever.. But, the issue isn't that the person is a nerd, it's that the person just lacks social experience.

At any rate, let's be men enough to do something useful. Give the nerds the openers and anything else we got, send them in the field, and encourage them along.

Openers, or many of the other tools given here can work for a lot of people if their FRAME is right. They need to be relaxed, direct, and unapologetic.

Keep in mind what the goal is. We want a good connection with the person in front of us. That means engaging stuff being said. Go for emotions, feelings, fun, etc. Avoid facts like what you do for a living, or what's your major; or at least make it a minor part of the conversation. When you ask someone what's her major, she already knows it, you aren't taking her through a new experience. When you ask for her opinion on something, she can be lead through feelings. If the opener is stimulating enough, and not a frank turn off, then go for it. Anyhow, get her to feel some emotions she'd want to have. She'll associate that feeling with you. That gives you VALUE. If the opener gives this, then USE IT.

 

[I_Only_Live_Once]

90% of approaching is body language, grooming, and tonality of your voice. But that is under the assumption that what you're saying isn't offensive/awkward. So using openers that are out of context creates awkwardness.
The focus should just be to vibe by being confident. In another words, I think all one really needs is to show strong body language and not say something stupid.

 

[Ricky]

I think calibration is it. Some women are just *****es that won't give you the time of day.