Why might a girl you're friends with suddenly want more?

[mikeyb]

Hi all,

Here's the deal: I just heard about an old friend of mine who was friends with his now-gf for two years. This isn't the first time I've heard of stuff like this. My best friend is a girl, and now and then she'll tell me about these crushes she has on other guy friends of hers, most of whom had earlier fallen into the friendzone (got rejected by her). She even hooked up with one of them a week ago.

The icing on the cake is that I've noticed that these ex-friends who get into relationships tend to have longer and far more fulfilling relationships than the ones I know who weren't friends first.

What's going on here? I always thought the friendzone was a pretty permanent thing. Especially after two years. But now I'm starting to think that for someone who wants a really good LTR, it's more important to make friends with lots of girls than to go on dates with them, and then wait and see what time drags by. So what would make a girl change her mind? Have any of you experienced something similar?

 

[Alphamale1821]

heres the way I look it there is only a friend zone if you are AFC, however if you are a dominant alpha male there is a thin line between being in the friend zone and more then friends. I know this for a fact because when I was a AFC I was in the friend zone with this cute chick named Cara, after my change to alpha male we were still friends but there was definitely a mutual attraction between us and I ended up making out with her. Could have fvcked her if I proceeded to. Bottom line this whole crap about friend zone is only for AFC's because if your a dominant, confident, alpha male type of dude sure you can be friends with a chick but most guys who are friends with girls is simply because they haven't fvcked them yet. There are few exceptions but just about the majority of the female friends I have I would or have fvcked.

AFC are literally stuck in the friend zone because they aren't found attractive by their female friends, however confident males generally are found attractive.

 

[Obsidian]

damn, alpha, all of your posts are brilliant

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

There is no Friend-Zone

Why might a girl you're friends with suddenly want more? Because her first priority of interest didn't pan out and you're the next best alternate.

First off, men and women cannot be friends, or at least not in the way that most people perceive same sex friendship to be. Now the natural resoponse to this from a well conditioned AFC is "I have lots of female friends" or "what are you trying to say, I can't have female friends, they all have to be enemies?" Which of course is the standard binary (black or white, all or nothing) retort and the trained AFC thinks anyone suggesting that men and women's relations as friends could be anything less than equitable and fulfilling is just a neanderthal chauvinist thinking thawed out from cryogenic freeze in the 1950s. But you are incorrect - not because you'd want to actually be a woman's friend, but because she cannot be yours. There are fundamental differences in the ways men and women view friendship within their own sex and the ways this transfers to the concept of intergender friendship.

Quite simply there are limitations on the degree to which a friendship can develop between men and women. The easy illustration of this is that at some point your female "friend" will become intimately involved with another male; at which point the quality of what you perceived as a legitimate friendship will decay. It must decay for her relationship to mature. For instance, I've been married for almost 11 years now; were I to entertain a deep freindship with another female (particualrly an attractive female) other than my wife, my interest in this woman automatically becomes suspect of infidelity - and of course the same holds true for women with men-friends.

It's not to say that you cannot have female aquaintances, or that you must necessarily be rude or ignore all women with contempt, that is binary thinking once again, but it is to say that the degree of friendship that you can experience with women (as a man) in comparison to same sex friendships will always be limited and mediated due to sexual differences. Most men will only ever engage in friendships with women that they find attractive and/or interesting which of course is colored by their attraction to that woman. Now I'm sure you'll play the "not in my case" card and attempt to tell me how much an exception to the rule you are, to which I'll say, even if you legitimately are, it still makes no difference. Because the very nature of an intergender friendship is ALWAYS going to be limited by sexual differences from either her side or yours (and usually both).

Even the best, most asexual, platonic, male-female friendships will be subject to mitigation based on sex. The easy example is., I'm sure you'd be jealous and suspect of your girlfriend were she to be spending any "quality time" with another 'male-friend'. It's simply time spent with another male who isn't you and you'll always question her desire to do so in favor of spending time with you.

So get out of your head now that you're even in a so called "friend zone" with any woman. You're either intimate with her or you're not. Women have boyfriends and girlfriends, if you're not fukking her, you're her girlfriend, simple as that. There is no friend zone - there is only the limbo between you being fooled that a girl is actually a friend on an equitable level to your same sex friends, and you understanding that as soon as she becomes intimate with another guy your attentions will become a liability to any relationship she might want to have with the new sexual interest and she puts you off, or you do the same when you become so involved with another girl.

 

[Thundercat]

Good post, Rollo.

I think the important thing to remember here is that the "friends zone" isn't a permanent fixture. It's based on the emotions a woman has toward the guy. If the guy can change the emotion, he can get out of the friend zone.

Acting "Alpha" is not really a strategy in itself unless you can define what makes one Alpha. If you suddenly start acting like an ass hole to your friend, she's not going to be your friend much longer.

I've found that women you can get strong RAPPORT with before you get into relationships with them tend to be the best relationships. It's not necessarilly that being friends with someone means you'll have a better relationship in the long run, I think it's that being friends gives you time to establish the emotional bonds and rapport that needs to be present for a good relationship.

The notion that men and women can never be friends is a false one, at least in my opinion. If there is no sexual tension in the relationship (ie: the two people are not attracted to each other in any way) then friendship is possible. Unfortuneately, there's usually always sexual tension in a male/female friendship (usually by the male).

And it's a mututal sexual tension which allows one to transition from friendship to relationship. It sounds like the guys your friend is hooking up with have somehow kept their sexual tension with her alive.

Anyway, I'm rambling. I hope I could be of help.

Thundercat

 

[mikeyb]

heres the way I look it there is only a friend zone if you are AFC, however if you are a dominant alpha male there is a thin line between being in the friend zone and more then friends.

That makes a lot of sense. I quit being an AFC a little over eight months ago and I've definitely noticed my female friends were getting flirtier and more feminine around me as a result. Haven't even thought about making out with any of them yet, though...one thing at a time .

if you're not fukking her, you're her girlfriend, simple as that

I disagree. I'm friends with lots of girls and they respect the fact that I'm not one of them and treat me like a guy. I think it comes down to whether you stand out as an alpha male or not.

I've found that women you can get strong RAPPORT with before you get into relationships with them tend to be the best relationships. It's not necessarilly that being friends with someone means you'll have a better relationship in the long run, I think it's that being friends gives you time to establish the emotional bonds and rapport that needs to be present for a good relationship

You're right about the rapport, although it's easier said than done. Definitely something to think about.


Thanks to all of you for the prompt responses

 

[STR8UP]

So get out of your head now that you're even in a so called "friend zone" with any woman. You're either intimate with her or you're not. Women have boyfriends and girlfriends, if you're not fukking her, you're her girlfriend, simple as that.

Isn't this the very essence of binary thinking?

 

[backbreaker]

That makes a lot of sense. I quit being an AFC a little over eight months ago and I've definitely noticed my female friends were getting flirtier and more feminine around me as a result. Haven't even thought about making out with any of them yet, though...one thing at a time .



I disagree. I'm friends with lots of girls and they respect the fact that I'm not one of them and treat me like a guy. I think it comes down to whether you stand out as an alpha male or not.



You're right about the rapport, although it's easier said than done. Definitely something to think about.


Thanks to all of you for the prompt responses

unless something drastic happens in your life, if a girl sees you as a friend, you will always be a friend.

My old oneitis from when I was 17 the women that bought me here, after I started, ran, sold a company, got in the best shape of my life, started dating hot women and learned everythig you can possibly want to know about seduction, still wont' date me... not because she's not attracted to me, but because "we're too good of friends"

theres been nights she would come over my house, we'd go out, shack up, sex and all.. and still wouldn' take me seirously. I still wasn't her first option... I was just a fvckable option now.

mind you, rollo was spot on.. if we are both single in the next 5 years, which I won't happen, but if it did, she would make an extremely hard push to shack up with me. I can provide the lifestyle she wants, and having sex with me (which we have) doesn't repulse her, and we/were cool. however rollo is spot on.. I'm not her first option (and neither is she for me)


People talk about being AFC like it's a club or a designer drug or something.. "yeah I was an AFC 6 months ago, but I'm sooooo dj now"

look. I promise you I'm more of a DJ now than most here, and I STILL have my moments.... not many, not many at all.. but I would be lying if I said i never had an AFC bone in my body. As much ass as I get... I return my old oneitis hone call when she calls.. I know better. I don't even want her but I sitll do it. I am putting myself in a no win situation.


You don't QUIT being an AFC.. you start being a man.

 

[Alphamale1821]

well it's all the same I was simply using a guy who under went a a change such as afc to alpha, or nice guy to a man just using one as an "example". The bottom line is if your a "man" then you can have a chance to have something "sexual" with a female friend 9 times out of 10. Granted yeah i've had some fvck up moments and i'm sure i still will but it's what i learned from those mistakes that really matter.

 

[Alphamale1821]

unless something drastic happens in your life, if a girl sees you as a friend, you will always be a friend.

My old oneitis from when I was 17 the women that bought me here, after I started, ran, sold a company, got in the best shape of my life, started dating hot women and learned everythig you can possibly want to know about seduction, still wont' date me... not because she's not attracted to me, but because "we're too good of friends"

theres been nights she would come over my house, we'd go out, shack up, sex and all.. and still wouldn' take me seirously. I still wasn't her first option... I was just a fvckable option now.

mind you, rollo was spot on.. if we are both single in the next 5 years, which I won't happen, but if it did, she would make an extremely hard push to shack up with me. I can provide the lifestyle she wants, and having sex with me (which we have) doesn't repulse her, and we/were cool. however rollo is spot on.. I'm not her first option (and neither is she for me)


People talk about being AFC like it's a club or a designer drug or something.. "yeah I was an AFC 6 months ago, but I'm sooooo dj now"

look. I promise you I'm more of a DJ now than most here, and I STILL have my moments.... not many, not many at all.. but I would be lying if I said i never had an AFC bone in my body. As much ass as I get... I return my old oneitis hone call when she calls.. I know better. I don't even want her but I sitll do it. I am putting myself in a no win situation.


You don't QUIT being an AFC.. you start being a man.

Actually I would have to disagree for I see AFC a "mindset" having AFC moments is not equal to not quitting being a afc. When you finally get the mindset of a man or if it just comes natural to you, your no longer(or were never) an AFC period. Just because you have "**** ups" as a man doesn’t mean you ever were or quit being an afc it's simply a mistake.

"AFC" is a mindset along with "nice guy" Such as being alpha male, dominant or confident they all go together and are all closely linked. just because I say alpha isn't saying that YOU HAVE TO BE alpha, being dominant, confident, or a ****ing man it's all the same because they are all similar.

 

[Last Man Standing]

You don't QUIT being an AFC.. you start being a man.

A qouteable by BB

Yeah kid, pursue women romantically and quit being scared of being rejected so quickly - this is what it really comes down to - fear of rejection!!

"Friendship" only prolongs your knowing the reality sooner!!

 

[mikeyb]

You don't QUIT being an AFC.. you start being a man.

Very elegant way to say it. Still, I've yet to read a post where someone claims they've started "being a man" as opposed to stopped "being AFC". In the context of this forum, it just makes more sense to say it the latter way. In my mind, the two are equivalent in many cases, and they're definitely equivalent in mine. However, you can be as much of a man as you want and still be AFC with women. I know or have heard of plenty of guys who are confident and dominant at work and around their friends but when it comes to women they turn on their AFC crap. It would be pointless and ridiculous to claim that they're lesser men because they can't be alpha around women. It's not a natural skill for most, and it requires a lot of practice and changes-of-mind to acquire.

yeah I was an AFC 6 months ago, but I'm sooooo dj now

I didn't say I was a DJ now. I'm working on it, but not quite there yet. However, the first step to becoming a DJ is to get out of the AFC mindframe. That's what I meant.

Yeah kid, pursue women romantically and quit being scared of being rejected so quickly - this is what it really comes down to - fear of rejection!!

"Friendship" only prolongs your knowing the reality sooner!!

I agree, those were my thoughts exactly before I started thinking about this whole friend-before-gf thing.

 

[backbreaker]

1. I wasn't reffering to you, not in the least bit... just in general with that last quotable statement. you see it ramped on this forum.

2. There is a post by pook called "Be a Man".. it's pretty eye opening.

Really, being DJish is more about reteaching yourself what you have been taught by conditioning that is wrong.

As long as I have come here, I think I may have run by 1 or 2 things that I just didn't know. Everything here is something that you alreayd KNEW how to do, you just didn't know you were "supposed" to do it.

that's what being a man is about. it's what being a DJ is about. they are one in the same. When I talk to a woman, I don't sprinkle her with fvck me dust (that would be cool), I just say what is REALLY is on my mind and not what I think she wants to hear.

I don't avoid her because I'm playing hard to get, I don't pick up my phone because I am doing something else that I deem more important...living

I am the most happy when I am living out my dreams. when I am living out my dreams, women come and go. they get in where they fit in. they make room.

moreso than anything, the point that I, and everyone else has been trying to get arcoss, is that it really sin't aobut women. it's about you. I spend 90% of my time here on the anything else forum. There is more to life than women... there's life. Frankly, I really don't see the big damn deal. they have *****..okay..... Now I wasn't ALWAYS that frank or else I wouldn't be in the first place.

To me, the total definition of an alpha male is one who does not unite dream and day.

It's easy to take the security path in your career, in health & in relationships.

it's not "secure" to be alone (however the more alone you are, the more you perfer it once you get used to it and realize it's perks)


It's not secure to follow your career dreams.. at least hardly ever

It's hard to push yourself to work out 3-4 times a week, in the rain, in the cold. it's so much more comfortable laying in bed, watching sportscenter and eating fruit loops.
I don't consider myself a DJ becuase I'm good women.. me being good with women is a byproduct of everything else in my life that's going on. If gives me the confidence to be good with women.

A guy who is confident at work and is not confident around women therefore not really confident at work, it's a fasuade to make you think he's confident.

Take laywers. I know alot.. well not a lot but 2 laywers.. both pretty confident in what they do for a living, they make good money... but are scared ****less around women.

lawyers or not if you are smart, it's pretty much a one way railroad to being a lawyer.

If you asked them, I doubt they said they wanted to be a lawyer when they grow up.

Basically what it amounts to is 2 words.. LIVE LIFE. enjoy yourself. Every minute of it. not just when you get off work. if you don't enjoy your job, find one you can't wait to go to sleep at night for, so you can get at work 30 minutes early because you like it THAT much.

 

[mikeyb]

Really, being DJish is more about reteaching yourself what you have been taught by conditioning that is wrong.

Yeah, that should be DJ commandment #1, shouldn't it? "Thou shalt treat all dating advice from parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents as extremely suspect"

I don't avoid her because I'm playing hard to get, I don't pick up my phone because I am doing something else that I deem more important...living

Absolutely. I wish some guys would just realize that DJing doesn't mean compulsively lying and playing fake mind games with women to get into their pants. It's a lifestyle change. That's why you can stop being an AFC overnight, but to become a true DJ takes much, much longer.

I don't consider myself a DJ becuase I'm good women.. me being good with women is a byproduct of everything else in my life that's going on. If gives me the confidence to be good with women.

Well, in an ideal world, that's the way it should be...but not all guys are going to have fulfilling lives and not all guys are going to know from inscinct how to generate attraction in women. I get my confidence from my success at college and how happy I am with everything else I do on the side, i.e hobbies and friends, but if I hadn't found out about this site, I don't think I'd be nearly as successful with women as I am now.

A guy who is confident at work and is not confident around women therefore not really confident at work, it's a fasuade to make you think he's confident.

Take laywers. I know alot.. well not a lot but 2 laywers.. both pretty confident in what they do for a living, they make good money... but are scared ****less around women.

Not totally on board with this. Back in High School I'd take charge of projects and lead them all the time, and I had no trouble giving a speech in front of thousands of people. I felt confident and I felt good about myself. Except that I knew I couldn't talk to girls, and that means my confidence around them in social situations, and only then, was shot. Think what you will, but my confidence in all other situations wasn't a facade. Until I started to trust in my knowledge in women, I wasn't confident flirting with them, and obviously that means I wasn't very successful with them.

 

[Augie]

I'm inclind to agree with Rool and Thundercat.

Now I have many Women friends but they are all from Work and I think the point about the nature of male to male or felmale to felmale friendships are different than male to felmale friendships.

If you are a real man whom has confidence and morals and positive attitude you'll find Women will befriend you, but once you start AFC or behaving like an Inmature **** Women will recoil from you as will the real men (Alpha)

Something else which helps this along, if the women you're friends with are older 30+ they are more likely to be in relationships and be more worldy meaning also if you work in a more corporate workplace the Women tend to be a little more rounded than the girls which many on this site write about.

I will concede the point that its hard sometimes no to look at the felmale from a sex point of view, but yeah isn't an Alpha able to resist sex for sex sake until his found a Women whom he really wants.