Why Men Have Given Up On Dating Women

[SW15]

Cold approaching is better suited for casual sex and one night stands than for LTRs IMO. If you have social connections, and you know a girl, you probably have some idea of what she is like personally, what her values and interests are, how she responds to you, whether or not you like her, etc. We all like an attractive woman, but what makes the difference for a LTR in the next cut is personality. To find someone suitable for what you want in an LTR, cold approaching would be like throwing a frisbee into a large crowd and hoping it lands on someone with all your requirements. The odds are incredibly low. Now if it's just finding a girl who might be willing to have sex with you, the odds are still low, but they're much better.

What can a man seeking an LTR do if he lacks social connections in general?

There are plenty of men who would like to have LTRs but they lack social connections. It's true that some are social outcasts, but that's not as common as what I'm about to describe. Plenty of 30+ unattached men would like an LTR but their social connections are all couples in LTRs and usually marriages. Their social connections tend to socialize with other people in couples. Other times, a 30+ unattached man's connections in couples are married couples with children. Married moms with children tend to socialize with other married moms with children. The unattached 30+ man cannot depend on the wife of his married man friend for any sort of social circle introduction.

The typical man in this scenario (lacking social connections) has the options of app swiping, social media DMing strangers, and approaching strangers in real life (cold approaching). All 3 of these options are poor options, especially for the 30+ unattached man. The typical man (mid-tier looks, blue pill ideology) is going to most frequently choose to spend the most amount of time app swiping of those 3 options, This is because he can sit at home in a t-shirt and underwear and try to arrange first dates. That's an appealing idea to a lot of men because it is comfortable to do that. Social media DMing is also a lazier method. Instagram is where it most commonly happens, but it also happens LinkedIn. Facebook seems to be falling out of favor as a place where Millennials and younger spend time. Approaching strangers in real life takes the most amount of effort and doesn't have that great of a track record. It might be better than app swiping, but it's not going to feel much better going through the process.

 

[Gamisch]

What can a man seeking an LTR do if he lacks social connections in general?

There are plenty of men who would like to have LTRs but they lack social connections. It's true that some are social outcasts, but that's not as common as what I'm about to describe. Plenty of 30+ unattached men would like an LTR but their social connections are all couples in LTRs and usually marriages. Their social connections tend to socialize with other people in couples. Other times, a 30+ unattached man's connections in couples are married couples with children. Married moms with children tend to socialize with other married moms with children. The unattached 30+ man cannot depend on the wife of his married man friend for any sort of social circle introduction.

The typical man in this scenario (lacking social connections) has the options of app swiping, social media DMing strangers, and approaching strangers in real life (cold approaching). All 3 of these options are poor options, especially for the 30+ unattached man. The typical man (mid-tier looks, blue pill ideology) is going to most frequently choose to spend the most amount of time app swiping of those 3 options, This is because he can sit at home in a t-shirt and underwear and try to arrange first dates. That's an appealing idea to a lot of men because it is comfortable to do that. Social media DMing is also a lazier method. Instagram is where it most commonly happens, but it also happens LinkedIn. Facebook seems to be falling out of favor as a place where Millennials and younger spend time. Approaching strangers in real life takes the most amount of effort and doesn't have that great of a track record. It might be better than app swiping, but it's not going to feel much better going through the process.

You stole that underwear line from me, be honest about it!!!

 

[BaronOfHair]

I wonder if people that aren't getting what they want out of life ever get out of their comfort zone and improve their situation?
Most of it comes down to lack of accountability.

When I first started dating I encountered many of the same issues and had some of the same complaints, but I chose to fix my situation instead of joining a group of complainers that sucked as bad as I did.

As far back as '15, I recall prominent MGTOWs (Sandman, Paul Elam, Turd Flinging Monkey)reciting these words from Chris Rock*
https://www.facebook.com/share/p/16XqCSzi86/ like Scripture, and never thinking critically about them . It's refreshing to finally read some dissent, such as that in the comment's section of that link:

:Ok. So adapt. Accept it and move on"

"Keep it moving…don’t look back. Discernment moving forward…"

"Relationships always have conditions. If I cheat on my wife, she will leave me. But if she cheats on me, I'll probably leave her too. Put away your victim card, this goes both ways"




*Goes without saying, neither Chris Rock nor any other man in the history of our species who's prospered, rose to such heights by spending most of their waking minutes lamenting all the things in life they were dissatisfied with I.E. The sort of assclownery both MGTOWs and SJWs each trade in...

These fellas all made peace with that which isn't currently susceptible to change, and directed their energies towards what IS within their influence

 

[zekko]

What can a man seeking an LTR do if he lacks social connections in general?

I hear you, a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do. What I did when I was younger though, was I spent a lot of time building social connections. This was part of my efforts to improve my social skills at the time, which were lacking. Of course, that's easier to do when you're younger, for a variety of reasons. People in their 20s like to hang out, they seem to crave socialization more than older people. Plus they have more energy for it. Of course I also cold approached, although we didn't call it that back then.

I've never used OLD, but obviously that's an option. Not a very good one, from what I hear. But I guess some people connect through it. Honestly I would feel a little stigmatized knowing my picture is on there, like I was such a loser that I had to use OLD, but I know more "modern" people don't look at it that way.

 

[SW15]

I've never used OLD, but obviously that's an option. Not a very good one, from what I hear. But I guess some people connect through it.

You are fortunate to have never used online dating, either in the website era (1990s-2000s) or swipe app era (2012-present).

As online dating has been around for longer, it's become clearer that it hasn't been good for individual people or the mating environment as a whole.

I would feel a little stigmatized knowing my picture is on there, like I was such a loser that I had to use OLD, but I know more "modern" people don't look at it that way.

This is more of a 1990s-early 2000s way of looking at online dating. A common debate in the early 2000s was whether or not online dating had lost its stigma. It was clear by the mid to late 2000s that online dating generally had no stigma.

I'm an early Millennial in my early 40s and I am old enough to remember when online dating had a stigma.

When online dating had a stigma, I was in high school and college. I was in college from 2001-2005. This is right when the stigma was ending. However, college students have the advantage of the college social environment for meeting people, so college students weren't that interested in the common dating websites of that time.

The more modern college students will use swipe apps but they don't even need to do it. However, typical college aged students now have gotten more socially awkward than the college students of 2001-2005.

There were signs when I was on campus that social awkwardness was increasing. When I was in a dorm as a freshman in the 2001-2002 school year, it was common to use AOL Instant Messenger and send text-based messages. This was a precursor to text messaging on phones, as we were sending these on laptop and desktop computers at the time. The trends that were emerging in 2001-2005 have become more normalized.

Once the early wave Millennials were graduating college in the mid to late 2000s, we shattered the online dating stigma by using tech methods as we were getting into the workforce at that time.

Swipe apps came along in 2012, moving dating from laptop/desktop computers to the smartphone.

What I did when I was younger though, was I spent a lot of time building social connections. Of course, that's easier to do when you're younger, for a variety of reasons.

Building social connections is a good idea. It is time consuming.

Let's say a man in his 30s moves to a new city where he has no connections. If he could actually build a social circle (debatable given his age and what his similarly aged peers are doing in life), it would take him at least 2 years for his social circle to be in a place where he might start to get social circle introductions to eligible singles.

Most men are not going to sacrifice 2+ years of their lives to build social connections that could result in sex. They are horny NOW!

That's even true for sexually disciplined, NoFap lifestyle men.

This is why a lot of men end up as app swippers, stranger approachers, and social media DMers. They can't wait to build a network.

 

[john1234]

I hear why many men have had enough.

In today's society, it's often said that women are pursuing the top 10% of men, leaving the remaining 90% with limited options. As a result, many men are experiencing disappointing outcomes, facing unrealistic high expectations, and ultimately deciding that dating just isn't worth the effort.

 

[zekko]

Most men are not going to sacrifice 2+ years of their lives to build social connections that could result in sex. They are horny NOW!

No doubt, but to be clear I was talking about LTRs. That started several posts back though, and I wouldn't expect someone to follow it.
As for stigma attached to OLD, while I agree with your point, it wouldn't surprise me if most people around my age see a stigma attached to it. For us, not the younger crowd.

 

[SW15]

As for stigma attached to OLD, while I agree with your point, it wouldn't surprise me if most people around my age see a stigma attached to it.

There are so many 55+ people using Match or OurTime these days. Match and OurTime strongly cater to the 55+ crowd at this point.

Most Boomers and early Gen X'ers who have found themselves single later in life have found out that it is difficult to meet people organically.

There are even 55+ people on the swipe apps too.

 

[Smok1nAce]

Most women aren’t that attractive nowadays. It’s really not that deep boys.

 

[pipeman84]

You are probably right about the fact that getting women via social circle is a more solid foundation. BUT, what about the (many ,many) men that lack this social circle?

The older we get the less likely it is that we have and maintain a circle that can do this for us. Heck, I'd say the window for this is extremely short: between 18 and let's say 24 . After that age most of your "friends" will teach you that p00sy is more important to them than friendship and IF you are the eternal bachelor they will eventually avoid you like the plague.

Cold approach has a wide variety of methods to go about it. You can't tell me that as long as there are parties and festivals where thousands of ( single) women go to that (cold )approach isn't the way to go.

Plenty of 30+ unattached men would like an LTR but their social connections are all couples in LTRs and usually marriages. Their social connections tend to socialize with other people in couples. Other times, a 30+ unattached man's connections in couples are married couples with children.

First off, as @zekko was talking about LTRs, not casual sex, I have to specify we only need this to happen once, maybe twice. It's not a recipe, a game that one can play every weekend in order to 'score'.

Those 30+ unattached men have work/business connections, have hobbies, various activities and interests. This easily puts them in touch if not directly with girls in their 20s, then with friends/acquaintances or relatives of those girls. An LTR worthy woman who would've ignored his cold approach in the grocery store, coffee shop etc would have no problem interacting with him when meeting through an activity or work related event. Because now you're not the creepy 'old man' hitting on her in a grocery store, you're preselected, you're there in front of her in a respectable, natural way.

 

[SW15]

Those 30+ unattached men have work/business connections, have hobbies, various activities and interests. This easily puts them in touch if not directly with girls in their 20s, then with friends/acquaintances or relatives of those girls. An LTR worthy woman who would've ignored his cold approach in the grocery store, coffee shop etc would have no problem interacting with him when meeting through an activity or work related event. Because now you're not the creepy 'old man' hitting on her in a grocery store, you're preselected, you're there in front of her in a respectable, natural way.

Unattached men 30+ have work/business connections, hobbies, various activities, and interests.

For the typical mid-tier man on looks, a woman is more likely to give him a more extended conversation through a hobby/activity group than through a stranger approach. A man outside the Top 10-20% in looks is going to have a more difficult time on real life approaches (and also on swipe apps). Guys who don't jump out as being hot/irresistible will often struggle in approaching. Also, if you are a hot enough guy, why bother approaching in real life when you can get more abundance on swipe apps?

In non-bar approaching, the majority of women between ages 18-49 aren't seeking new penis at the moment they are approached in a non-bar setting. That is a major disincentive for doing non-bar approaching.

- YouTube

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Conversations started from a non-bar approach when the woman isn't seeking new penis are likely to fizzle out in 30-60 seconds. Women in those situation don't tend to disclose their relationship status and the fact that they aren't seeking new penis.

Bars have an advantage in the sense that women who show up to bars are more likely on average to be seeking new penis as compared to any woman in grocery store, gym/fitness class, or other non-bar setting. Stranger approaches have the potential to be more targeted there. However, bars/nightlife venues have plenty of disadvantages.

The main advantage on hobby/interest groups is that the women who are involved in those will give them a longer window. They might not be as good looking, but they are more likely to engage in interaction.

However, many men end up disappointed in their hobby group type experiences. @Mike32ct has told stories about how a dance group was wasted effort for forming new relationships. Plenty of men have disappointing stories from a co-ed sports league. I can't cover every single activity/hobby group in one post.

As for co-workers, it's difficult for an average man to use his female co-workers as a source for introductions to the female friends of his co-workers. This happens less often than one might think that it would.

 

[pipeman84]

However, many men end up disappointed in their hobby group type experiences. @Mike32ct has told stories about how a dance group was wasted effort for forming new relationships. Plenty of men have disappointing stories from a co-ed sports league. I can't cover every single activity/hobby group in one post.

Well, if a guy goes to dance classes because dating gurus on YouTube suggest it's a good place to meet chicks, and no relationship forms, then it'll all look like a waste of time and energy. What I was suggesting was to do an activity because it's your passion, not just to meet girls. This way you'll act naturally (which in itself makes it more probable to attract a woman) and you'll not be disappointed if you don't happen to form a relationship.

As for co-workers, it's difficult for an average man to use his female co-workers as a source for introductions to the female friends of his co-workers. This happens less often than one might think that it would.

It doesn't have to be as simplistic and narrow scenario as a man being introduced by his female co-worker to one of her female friends. There are multiple possible scenarios, just use your imagination. It can be a male co-worker introducing him to a male friend and this guy has a sister or a daughter that's the right age and quality for an LTR.

 

[SW15]

There are multiple possible scenarios, just use your imagination. It can be a male co-worker introducing him to a male friend and this guy has a sister or a daughter that's the right age and quality for an LTR.

There are multiple scenarios, but they all play out less frequently than one might think.

Most unattached men are working with married people and also married co-workers with children.

Also, white collar environments tend to be sexually sterile and discourage a lot of talk about this stuff.

What I was suggesting was to do an activity because it's your passion, not just to meet girls. This way you'll act naturally (which in itself makes it more probable to attract a woman) and you'll not be disappointed if you don't happen to form a relationship.

Meeting women through hobbies is one of those ideas that sounds really nice in theory, but often falls flat in practice. There are a lot of reasons why it falls flat.

Men and women often don't share the same hobbies and interests.

A lot of times, men will select hobbies that they think will have more females in them but the females in them aren't as receptive to his advances as he would like.

As one example, plenty of fitness oriented men go to group fitness classes and hope to meet women there. When they go, they find good ratios but women who aren't sociable at the end of classes.

The co-ed sports leagues are another good example.

Co-ed sports leagues can often be challenging places to meet women because many tend to be sausage fests.

It's very difficult to swoop into a co-ed sports league for one season of the sport and walk away with some dates. Nearly every other guy in these leagues is an unattached guy who is trying to get his penis wet in league because he read some advice article online or in a printed copy of a magazine about doing this.

If a guy likes in a particular sport and does many league seasons of that sport (spanning multiple calendar years), he might be able to get either social circle-ish opportunities or a direct opportunity at the sponsor bar with a female playing on another team in the league. Same team random relationships also sometimes start, but are rare. Female teammates in a co-ed sports league might be able to give you introductions, which can be helpful.

Most co-ed sports league participants are under 35-40 and its more like under 36 for women.

 

[BaronOfHair]

What can a man seeking an LTR do if he lacks social connections in general?

Spend less time glued to The X Box/rewatching The Avengers saga for the 8,000,000,000,000th time, and more out in the sunlight and fresh air, developing said social connections

Not easy, I admit, nonetheless the remedy is simple

 

[Solomon]

I hear why many men have had enough.

In today's society, it's often said that women are pursuing the top 10% of men, leaving the remaining 90% with limited options. As a result, many men are experiencing disappointing outcomes, facing unrealistic high expectations, and ultimately deciding that dating just isn't worth the effort.

The 90% stat that keeps being rehashed since 2013 is only true for online dating, in the real world. Chad's aren't approaching 5's and 4's unless they are down bad or in Hicksville, USA. Plus in the USA alone, there are nearly 39,000 marriages per week. If you look at this with basic critical thinking skills, you would realize that there are not enough Chad's to go around to get married in that rate on a weekly basis. Tons of regular or average folk are getting married and so forth.

For average guy you're better of competing in the real world than online, Online dating is a waste of time for the most part

 

[Rainman4707]

This is key, sadly, a majority of men will never get to that point. this is why I consider most MGTOW hypocrites. why focus on women so much in their content? yet claim not to care if you truly focused on going your own way you would live your life and abundance would be a byproduct of that. But I think most MGTOW (not all) have boring lives so they watch Sandman as a form of cope. Instead of living a purposeful life

Women wont come to you.

 

[Solomon]

Women wont come to you.

You're right women won't come to you if you're Online all day talking about them
Luckily for me that's not my life nor do I ever want to relate to that