Why is OLD the last couple years borderline unusable??

[Jesse Pinkman]

IMO, I think I know how apps can fix the issue but the forum is going to hate me for it. I think a quality app would have to treat the app like an exclusive nightclub and what happens at exclusive nightclubs? Guys pay and pretty girls get in for free. Exclusive nightclubs get the idea and they get the deal. They know that lots of single dudes do not bring any value to the club and most average men are worthless, they are just going to spam and annoy the girls and inflate their egos. That is kind of what is happening on these apps. Girls get thousands of matches with thirsty dudes because dudes have way lower standards than women.

Here is what I think the apps should do, charge guys money to even be on the app.

No boosts or anything, charge them actual money if they are a male profile on the app and they have to verify as well.

The outcome? Far more even ratios across the app. I know it is "sexism" and the morons on the Red Pill and "Manosphere" will rant about it but we have to be practical here. We never want to blame our fellow man for things being this bad but it is your fellow man who is simping hard at these girls, spamming their DMs with crappy lines, and swiping right on even 5s to boost their ego.

You make the men pay to even be on the app and verify their profile. This alone takes out 80% of guys who are either too dirt cheap or just on the apps to waste time and spam ugly looking women.

 

[The Duke]

I would disagree with this. I have a few friends who fit the mold of "Chad" down to a tee (white, tall, former college athletes, etc.) and they are struggling on the apps. Granted, they are in Miami which is just an awfully competitive market but they showed me their matches. A lot of them were overweight girls, fake profiles, and ugly girls. A handful were maybe cute girls but that is it. Almost all of them were paying too after a while from what they said, for boosts and all of that stuff. It is tough out there.

Women always struggle with decision making. Its why confident men are attractive(they make decisions). Women are famous for not being able to decide where they want to eat, what shoes they are going to wear, etc. I've sat next to my sister and cousin and watched them try and decide which guys to swipe right on/talk to, etc. They have no idea. They are overwhelmed. They don't know what they want. Their decision making skills are non-existent. So the end result is low effort and low interest and they go with out. The visual part of their brain doesn't drive decision making like it does for us.

 

[Dr.Suave]

Guys pay and pretty girls get in for free.

Im not against this but what about land whales, single moms, post wall women etc?

 

[Jesse Pinkman]

Im not against this but what about land whales, single moms, post wall women and ugly girls that dont pass the boner test?

Easy, they don't get swamped with 100s if not thousands of messages from thirsty dudes trying to hit em up and get with them. Because the point of it is that these women will be ignored as the guy who are actually able to pay for the app now have solid options to where they don't even have to stoop that low.

 

[The Duke]

IMO, I think I know how apps can fix the issue but the forum is going to hate me for it. I think a quality app would have to treat the app like an exclusive nightclub and what happens at exclusive nightclubs? Guys pay and pretty girls get in for free. Exclusive nightclubs get the idea and they get the deal. They know that lots of single dudes do not bring any value to the club and most average men are worthless, they are just going to spam and annoy the girls and inflate their egos. That is kind of what is happening on these apps. Girls get thousands of matches with thirsty dudes because dudes have way lower standards than women.

Here is what I think the apps should do, charge guys money to even be on the app.

No boosts or anything, charge them actual money if they are a male profile on the app and they have to verify as well.

The outcome? Far more even ratios across the app. I know it is "sexism" and the morons on the Red Pill and "Manosphere" will rant about it but we have to be practical here. We never want to blame our fellow man for things being this bad but it is your fellow man who is simping hard at these girls, spamming their DMs with crappy lines, and swiping right on even 5s to boost their ego.

You make the men pay to even be on the app and verify their profile. This alone takes out 80% of guys who are either too dirt cheap or just on the apps to waste time and spam ugly looking women.

Many of the country dance

Easy, they don't get swamped with 100s if not thousands of messages from thirsty dudes trying to hit em up and get with them. Because the point of it is that these women will be ignored as the guy who are actually able to pay for the app now have solid options to where they don't even have to stoop that low.

Every guy should go on Seeking just to give themselves an idea of what its like to be pursued by women on a dating app. It helps to understand what they go thru on a traditional dating app. On Seeking as a guy, its hard to keep up with all of the messages girls send. THe effort a girl on Seeking puts out is 10 times more than a traditional app.

 

[Jesse Pinkman]

Every guy should go on Seeking just to give themselves an idea of what its like to be pursued by women on a dating app. It helps to understand what they go thru on a traditional dating app. On Seeking as a guy, its hard to keep up with all of the messages girls send. THe effort a girl on Seeking puts out is 10 times more than a traditional app.

NOOOOOO!!! Not every guy should go on Seeking. In fact, I also love the Seeking MAKES YOU PAY to even start messaging women.

Please do not advertise this. I do not want Seeking to turn into Tinder where loser bum dudes are spamming 5s and 6s with crappy lines and inflating the egos of those women. Protect seeking at all costs, make dudes pay high prices to even be on there. Tired of these simps ruining tinder and Bumble.

 

[I_have_BDE]

IMO, I think I know how apps can fix the issue but the forum is going to hate me for it. I think a quality app would have to treat the app like an exclusive nightclub and what happens at exclusive nightclubs? Guys pay and pretty girls get in for free. Exclusive nightclubs get the idea and they get the deal. They know that lots of single dudes do not bring any value to the club and most average men are worthless, they are just going to spam and annoy the girls and inflate their egos. That is kind of what is happening on these apps. Girls get thousands of matches with thirsty dudes because dudes have way lower standards than women.

Here is what I think the apps should do, charge guys money to even be on the app.

No boosts or anything, charge them actual money if they are a male profile on the app and they have to verify as well.

The outcome? Far more even ratios across the app. I know it is "sexism" and the morons on the Red Pill and "Manosphere" will rant about it but we have to be practical here. We never want to blame our fellow man for things being this bad but it is your fellow man who is simping hard at these girls, spamming their DMs with crappy lines, and swiping right on even 5s to boost their ego.

You make the men pay to even be on the app and verify their profile. This alone takes out 80% of guys who are either too dirt cheap or just on the apps to waste time and spam ugly looking women.

Well, match is paid, it isn't a cheap site and before covid hit dates from match showed me they were getting tons of guys flooding their messages just like the swipe apps. Wasn't much different.

 

[Jesse Pinkman]

Well, match is paid, it isn't a cheap site and before covid hit dates from match showed me they were getting tons of guys flooding their messages just like the swipe apps. Wasn't much different.

For women or for men? If both genders then it makes sense because still, the ratio is lopsided. That is why I say make it free for women but make the men pay to be on the app.

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

Never mind it would sift out a lot of psychos on both sides. There are people that delete and create accounts repeatedly- both male and females. The ease to create an account should be curtailed - but again this messes with their membership numbers and valuations.

IMO, I think I know how apps can fix the issue but the forum is going to hate me for it. I think a quality app would have to treat the app like an exclusive nightclub and what happens at exclusive nightclubs? Guys pay and pretty girls get in for free. Exclusive nightclubs get the idea and they get the deal. They know that lots of single dudes do not bring any value to the club and most average men are worthless, they are just going to spam and annoy the girls and inflate their egos. That is kind of what is happening on these apps. Girls get thousands of matches with thirsty dudes because dudes have way lower standards than women.

Here is what I think the apps should do, charge guys money to even be on the app.

No boosts or anything, charge them actual money if they are a male profile on the app and they have to verify as well.

The outcome? Far more even ratios across the app. I know it is "sexism" and the morons on the Red Pill and "Manosphere" will rant about it but we have to be practical here. We never want to blame our fellow man for things being this bad but it is your fellow man who is simping hard at these girls, spamming their DMs with crappy lines, and swiping right on even 5s to boost their ego.

You make the men pay to even be on the app and verify their profile. This alone takes out 80% of guys who are either too dirt cheap or just on the apps to waste time and spam ugly looking women.

 

[Jesse Pinkman]

Never mind it would sift out a lot of psychos on both sides. There are people that delete and create accounts repeatedly- both male and females. The ease to create an account should be curtailed - but again this messes with their membership numbers and valuations.

Right now there are apps like The League which are choosy about who they let in and then there is Raya, maybe some forum members who have been on that app can say how good or bad it is.

The problem with Tinder, Bumble, and Hinge is that they became too accessible for the average guy. It is like having a club and there being no bouncer, most of the people that enter are going to be dudes and even guys there to cause trouble. The parallel to dating apps is that you have now let suckers, losers, and beta males flood in to inflate the egos of 5s and 6s.

We all want to blame women and the government, it's time we started to blame the average man. It's time we started to blame the sucker and the simp who decided to inflate the ego of a 5. The apps have let these dudes run AMOK and completely ruin the algorithm for everyone. We have to make the barrier to entry higher or else we will be left with Tinder where 75% of the users are men.

 

[I_have_BDE]

For women or for men? If both genders then it makes sense because still, the ratio is lopsided. That is why I say make it free for women but make the men pay to be on the app.

Women get flooded. Usually what also happens is girls get the free 7 day trial and then don't renew. The ones you see on OLD for years and are decent looking are damaged head cases. When they're cute and on there for years there is something wrong with them.

 

[SW15]

IMO, I think I know how apps can fix the issue but the forum is going to hate me for it. I think a quality app would have to treat the app like an exclusive nightclub and what happens at exclusive nightclubs? Guys pay and pretty girls get in for free. Exclusive nightclubs get the idea and they get the deal. They know that lots of single dudes do not bring any value to the club and most average men are worthless, they are just going to spam and annoy the girls and inflate their egos. That is kind of what is happening on these apps. Girls get thousands of matches with thirsty dudes because dudes have way lower standards than women.

Here is what I think the apps should do, charge guys money to even be on the app.

No boosts or anything, charge them actual money if they are a male profile on the app and they have to verify as well.

The outcome? Far more even ratios across the app. I know it is "sexism" and the morons on the Red Pill and "Manosphere" will rant about it but we have to be practical here. We never want to blame our fellow man for things being this bad but it is your fellow man who is simping hard at these girls, spamming their DMs with crappy lines, and swiping right on even 5s to boost their ego.

You make the men pay to even be on the app and verify their profile. This alone takes out 80% of guys who are either too dirt cheap or just on the apps to waste time and spam ugly looking women.

In effect, this already happens. Guys have to pay to get the unlimited swipes to swipe on enough women to have a chance.

The problem with Tinder, Bumble, and Hinge is that they became too accessible for the average guy. It is like having a club and there being no bouncer, most of the people that enter are going to be dudes and even guys there to cause trouble. The parallel to dating apps is that you have now let suckers, losers, and beta males flood in to inflate the egos of 5s and 6s.

We all want to blame women and the government, it's time we started to blame the average man. It's time we started to blame the sucker and the simp who decided to inflate the ego of a 5. The apps have let these dudes run AMOK and completely ruin the algorithm for everyone. We have to make the barrier to entry higher or else we will be left with Tinder where 75% of the users are men.

A lot of men have been shifting their night game approaches to the swipe apps over the past 10 years. Guys will tend to drop standards to get something on the apps. It is common and has always been common for men at bars to drop their standards later in the night to try to get laid.

 

[BergischerLöwe]

In effect, this already happens. Guys have to pay to get the unlimited swipes to swipe on enough women to have a chance.



A lot of men have been shifting their night game approaches to the swipe apps over the past 10 years. Guys will tend to drop standards to get something on the apps. It is common and has always been common for men at bars to drop their standards later in the night to try to get laid.

For those who are fed up with swipe apps and can't rely on cold approach, is there any reasonable solution?

 

[I_have_BDE]

For those who are fed up with swipe apps and can't rely on cold approach, is there any reasonable solution?

The regular old sites like match and pof are just as bad now as well.

 

[SW15]

For those who are fed up with swipe apps and can't rely on cold approach, is there any reasonable solution?

In general, there are 4 main ways to meet women and arrange first dates.

1. Approaching strangers in non-bar venues (commonly called day game)
2. Approaching strangers in bars/nightlife venues (commonly called night game)
3. Using tech-based methods (swipe apps, websites, and social media platforms)
4. Meeting people through your social circle of friends and acquaintances (commonly called social circle game)

There are a few things in life that straddle the border of one of those 4 main ways. They commonly take the form of activity groups or organized events. Some people call these things 'warm approaches'. I try not to use the term 'warm approaches', instead calling everything a stranger approach. Some stranger approaches are easier to pull off than others.

My favorite example in discussing activity groups/organized events are co-ed sports leagues. There are plenty of adult co-ed sports sports leagues there. They are commonly in soccer, softball, volleyball, kickball, and basketball.

Co-ed sports leagues can be considered a form of weak social circle game. They are not day game at all. It's not night game either although teams from a league will often congregate at a sponsor bar after that week's games. It’s pretty difficult to swoop into a co-ed kickball, softball, volleyball, or soccer league & directly arrange dates. First, there are more men than women in all these leagues. Nearly every other guy in these leagues is an unattached guy who is trying to get his penis wet in league because he read some advice article online or in a printed copy of a magazine about doing this. The only exceptions are the men who join teams with their girlfriends or wives. You can make friends in these leagues but chances are that the other men need sex as much as you do. If you’re able to develop a social circle from a co-ed sports league, realize it will take multiple seasons of participation in the league. So you’d better actually like that sport because playing that sport is often the only benefit of it.

Hobbies are bullchit

What interesting "hobbies" do you guys actually have? Trains sets? Medieval roleplay? Hobbies are bullchit things single men do when they dont have girls to chill with or they are butthurt about a girl.

www.sosuave.net

There are also structured singles events. See thread below for a good discussion of those.

Are Structured Singles Events a Waste of Time?

Mostly every unattached person has dealt with this. The potential invitation to a "singles event" or "singles mixer". It is a chance for unattached people to meet. It's not a general night out at a bar, which has unattached people interspersed with attached people. Everyone here is unattached by...

www.sosuave.net

Social circle game can be difficult to do for a lot of reasons. There are a lot of variables that go into whether social circle can be effective for a man. There are plenty of reasons why social circle won't be applicable. It is also possible to have friends and not have a social circle that is capable of arranging dates. Social circle game has been discussed on this forum a lot over the years. Use the search function.

There's a 5th option that is rarely ever talked about on this forum for finding dates and relationships. Matchmaker services. There are plenty of matchmaking services out there. Many of them used to advertise inside of in-flight magazines on commercial airlines. During one flight in the 2010s, I opened up an in-flight magazine to count the number of matchmaking services that were advertised. There were multiple ones in that issue. Matchmaker services are typically used by beta male older men (35+) with money who aren't meeting people through real life options or the tech-based options. I linked a YouTube video about a very high end matchmaking service, but even the more reasonably priced matchmaking services are quite expensive. Good luck finding a matchmaking service under $10,000-$15,000 now.

 

[BergischerLöwe]

The regular old sites like match and pof are just as bad now as well.

Same goes for OKcupid, for the past five years or so it's been unusable

 

[BergischerLöwe]

In general, there are 4 main ways to meet women and arrange first dates.

1. Approaching strangers in non-bar venues (commonly called day game)
2. Approaching strangers in bars/nightlife venues (commonly called night game)
3. Using tech-based methods (swipe apps, websites, and social media platforms)
4. Meeting people through your social circle of friends and acquaintances (commonly called social circle game)

There are a few things in life that straddle the border of one of those 4 main ways. They commonly take the form of activity groups or organized events. Some people call these things 'warm approaches'. I try not to use the term 'warm approaches', instead calling everything a stranger approach. Some stranger approaches are easier to pull off than others.

My favorite example in discussing activity groups/organized events are co-ed sports leagues. There are plenty of adult co-ed sports sports leagues there. They are commonly in soccer, softball, volleyball, kickball, and basketball.

Co-ed sports leagues can be considered a form of weak social circle game. They are not day game at all. It's not night game either although teams from a league will often congregate at a sponsor bar after that week's games. It’s pretty difficult to swoop into a co-ed kickball, softball, volleyball, or soccer league & directly arrange dates. First, there are more men than women in all these leagues. Nearly every other guy in these leagues is an unattached guy who is trying to get his penis wet in league because he read some advice article online or in a printed copy of a magazine about doing this. The only exceptions are the men who join teams with their girlfriends or wives. You can make friends in these leagues but chances are that the other men need sex as much as you do. If you’re able to develop a social circle from a co-ed sports league, realize it will take multiple seasons of participation in the league. So you’d better actually like that sport because playing that sport is often the only benefit of it.

Hobbies are bullchit

What interesting "hobbies" do you guys actually have? Trains sets? Medieval roleplay? Hobbies are bullchit things single men do when they dont have girls to chill with or they are butthurt about a girl.

www.sosuave.net

There are also structured singles events. See thread below for a good discussion of those.

Are Structured Singles Events a Waste of Time?

Mostly every unattached person has dealt with this. The potential invitation to a "singles event" or "singles mixer". It is a chance for unattached people to meet. It's not a general night out at a bar, which has unattached people interspersed with attached people. Everyone here is unattached by...

www.sosuave.net

Social circle game can be difficult to do for a lot of reasons. There are a lot of variables that go into whether social circle can be effective for a man. There are plenty of reasons why social circle won't be applicable. It is also possible to have friends and not have a social circle that is capable of arranging dates. Social circle game has been discussed on this forum a lot over the years. Use the search function.

There's a 5th option that is rarely ever talked about on this forum for finding dates and relationships. Matchmaker services. There are plenty of matchmaking services out there. Many of them used to advertise inside of in-flight magazines on commercial airlines. During one flight in the 2010s, I opened up an in-flight magazine to count the number of matchmaking services that were advertised. There were multiple ones in that issue. Matchmaker services are typically used by beta male older men (35+) with money who aren't meeting people through real life options or the tech-based options. I linked a YouTube video about a very high end matchmaking service, but even the more reasonably priced matchmaking services are quite expensive. Good luck finding a matchmaking service under $10,000-$15,000 now.

What should I do if I have no confidence in my ability to potentially meet and attract women irl? I've spoken of that numerous times on here and it's a huge problem. The only way I've learned how to meet women is apps and that's how it's worked for my entire adult life. I'd be more confident in the prospect of trying irl if there was some precedent or frame of reference from past experience, but I don't have that at all. As I said before I can't rely on social circle game, and I have no idea where I'd even go and try to meet women irl. In the condition I find myself in now if I did meet one irl and it led to a hookup or relationship, the woman would have to approach me first and not the other way around, and women don't do that unless they're ugly or desperate.

 

[SW15]

What should I do if I have no confidence in my ability to potentially meet and attract women irl?

Fix that mental block.

I have no idea where I'd even go and try to meet women irl.

There are tons of places to do that as an adult in the working world who isn't on a school campus.

Malls, grocery stores, gyms and fitness classes, bookstores, coffee shops, co-ed sports leagues, bars/nightclubs, parks, walking/hiking paths, a street with a lot of pedestrian foot traffic, etc.

 

[corrector]

Fix that mental block.



There are tons of places to do that as an adult in the working world who isn't on a school campus.

Malls, grocery stores, gyms and fitness classes, bookstores, coffee shops, co-ed sports leagues, bars/nightclubs, parks, walking/hiking paths, a street with a lot of pedestrian foot traffic, etc.

You said you dont like cold approach yourself and setted with a small rotation. You said you would have to stake out a place and often spend hours just to find someone you could approach. Some other posters had got ghosted and then got a reply months later.

 

[I_have_BDE]

Same goes for OKcupid, for the past five years or so it's been unusable

Okc match llc killed it when they bought it.