Why is OLD the last couple years borderline unusable??

[Pierce Manhammer]

It think it’s more along the lines that women are like men in this respect. Men tend t give women what they want e.g. the ubiquitous cawk pic, the dude thinks “well I’d love to see her cooch so I’ll send her a pic of my stuff!” See women think that men want what they do as well - they value a hardworking man with a career that has money and is educated and going places, so they think erroneously that it’s what attracts men.

We all know that all we want is for her to be hot, and show up naked with food.

Again, as humans we tend to give what we want, thinking “it’s what I want how can the other person not ant the same thing?!?”

Another thing is that I use bumble because where I live it attracts a higher quality older woman in the age groups I date in. Women tend to have paid accounts on bumble around these parts and tinder tends to not have paying females, it’s a lower class of female if you ask me. All of that said, I bought a lifetime account when they were on sale more than a year ago, it was cheaper than a year month to month. I curate my swipes and make sure I’m only trying to match women that I consider to be higher value. This leads to a very low match rate, but the matches I do get are definitely worthy of my pursuit. I have about 20 matches in my stack that I’ve messaged with at one point or another, I believe that the algorithm looks at your match queue and if you have a lot of women in it that themselves have a higher rating (per the algorithm), it in turn raises my rating.

I was both seeing very many boner worthy females for a while and now that I’ve accumulated likes and chats with the aforementioned higher value women, I will now go have at least 5-6 cards a day that are much better looking than I did previously. After I go through them I start being shown groups of undesirable women, all piled together just like the higher quality ones show up in groups.

On bumble at least, do not delete your conversations with really good looking women, they add to you bumble SMV, which means you’re shown better candidates. Works for me.

Because the former is one of the few ways to be different from the rest. Think about it; a woman makes a profile hoping to find a high value man, The One. They'll struggle to spark interest from a HVM,one with options, when all they do is generic shyte. So they'll try to display style , taste ect.

Men would also have more patient and put more work in, if they would at least see some results. Women make a profile and have 1000 likes in a week. That by itself is a ego boost. Now she "just" has to weed out 999 (or 980?) men she doesn't want. A man might have 10 likes in a week and disappear disheartened without trying anymore.

So the trick is to display value;: whether thats physical, social or any other form. Like you say; women are after material . Always been that way.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

It think it’s more along the lines that women are like men in this respect. Men tend t give women what they want e.g. the ubiquitous cawk pic, the dude thinks “well I’d love to see her cooch so I’ll send her a pic of my stuff!” See women think that men want what they do as well - they value a hardworking man with a career that has money and is educated and going places, so they think erroneously that it’s what attracts men.

We all know that all we want is for her to be hot, and show up naked with food.

Again, as humans we tend to give what we want, thinking “it’s what I want how can the other person not ant the same thing?!?”

Another thing is that I use bumble because where I live it attracts a higher quality older woman in the age groups I date in. Women tend to have paid accounts on bumble around these parts and tinder tends to not have paying females, it’s a lower class of female if you ask me. All of that said, I bought a lifetime account when they were on sale more than a year ago, it was cheaper than a year month to month. I curate my swipes and make sure I’m only trying to match women that I consider to be higher value. This leads to a very low match rate, but the matches I do get are definitely worthy of my pursuit. I have about 20 matches in my stack that I’ve messaged with at one point or another, I believe that the algorithm looks at your match queue and if you have a lot of women in it that themselves have a higher rating (per the algorithm), it in turn raises my rating.

I was both seeing very many boner worthy females for a while and now that I’ve accumulated likes and chats with the aforementioned higher value women, I will now go have at least 5-6 cards a day that are much better looking than I did previously. After I go through them I start being shown groups of undesirable women, all piled together just like the higher quality ones show up in groups.

On bumble at least, do not delete your conversations with really good looking women, they add to you bumble SMV, which means you’re shown better candidates. Works for me.

How do you like Match for your target market? I did pretty well when I was on there, and was able to reach a broader base of women by not having to match (irony alert) first.

 

[I_have_BDE]

How do you like Match for your target market? I did pretty well when I was on there, and was able to reach a broader base of women by not having to match (irony alert) first.

Better off using upward or bumble now. Match has become pay to play more and is a glorified pof now except $$$. Match full of post wall women and fatties now.

Catholic match used to have some hot women but most were about 100 or more miles away in the big cities.

Is eharmony any good? I figured maybe it has women who take it more seriously and since it costs a lot more less competition and hotter women who take care of their bodies more.

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

How do you like Match for your target market? I did pretty well when I was on there, and was able to reach a broader base of women by not having to match (irony alert) first.

Haven’t used Match.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

Haven’t used Match.

I've been off of it for the 9 months, but locally in AZ it had the best of the 40+ crowd (although overly high standards are of course an issue) and you could hit anyone up with a strong opener, plus you can also see who viewed you, and hit those women up as well. There is surprisingly a good number of bangable women dtf too (at least where I am).

I've been lagging about trying Hinge, but when I tried Bumble it seemed like a lamer version of Match so I didn't bother much with it.

Years ago they had a "best feature" (meaning body parts) category that you do search by, but they've gotten rid of that.

 

[BergischerLöwe]

The swipe apps have been bad for a long time. The fact that you're just noticing it within the last 2 years means that you were on borrowed time. That borrowed time has now run out for you. My photos have been rated in the high 6s/low 7s so I'm a decent option.

I have been off the apps for a while.

I would say that most guys need to pay on all 3 of the big apps now to have a fighting chance. With most men have a match rate of less than 1% on their right swipes, they will need to have the unlimited swiping capability that paying offers. They need to make a large number of swipes to compensate for a less than 1% match rate.

Unless you're a 90th percentile man or better, your time is better spent on another form of arranging dates.

How tho? I've only ever been able to meet women that I've dated or hooked up with via apps and now my borrowed time has run out too. Cold approach won't work for someone like me and I can't use social circle game either. I have no way of meeting women other than apps and even if I met one in real life I wouldn't be able to do anything with such an opportunity. A lot of guys these days have no other option than to use apps unfortunately

 

[SW15]

A lot of guys these days have no other option than to use apps unfortunately

Most men have options other than the swipe apps. Men that claim to have no other options are lazy and/or fall for the illusion of convenience lie of swipe apps*. I'm 40 years old. I don't need a swipe app to meet women.

Why don't I need a swipe app?

I live in one of the biggest cities/metro areas in the USA. I live in a part of that city where younger, never married women tend to live. I utilize a combination of venues for approaching women. I am mainly a day game guy and have mainly been a day game guy since reading Roosh's "Day Bang" soon after its September 2011 publication. When I read "Day Bang", I was already in my late 20s and 30 was coming soon. I had been doing night game for many years at that point in life.

Think about me in the last 5 years, as a 35+ guy. Most men who are 35-40 years old are mindlessly swiping on apps. They are vagina beggars who are going to end up settling for the most mediocre woman they meet from using a swipe app or sending DMs on Instagram who will tolerate them. I'm not that guy.

I can approach women in the real world wherever I go. Even if I didn't approach women in non-bar venues, I could go to bars multiple nights a week and approach women in bars. I could go to pool parties if I wanted to do that**.

Cold approach won't work for someone like me and I can't use social circle game either. I have no way of meeting women other than apps and even if I met one in real life I wouldn't be able to do anything with such an opportunity.

This shows me that your inner game is off as well. My sense is that you don't have healthy lifestyle habits that are crucial parts of being able to game. I do not watch porn, masturbate, I have an exercise routine, and I avoid processed foods as much as possible. If you avoid porn and masturbation, you are going to be so horny and more aggressive in general. This is good. This will give you the motivation to start interactions with women.

In part due to my lifestyle habits, I can walk outdoors on a walking path, see a woman where I have an opportunity to deliver a good opener, open her, and have some sort of conversation with her. The conversation can go nowhere, but I can be a late 30s/early 40s guy opening 22-24 year olds. This has happened. I don't even have a top tier male physique. Most people would say I'm a 6.5-7 in looks. I'm 5'10" so I'm below the magical 6'0" threshold that women in the United States desire.

Too many men are sedating themselves with some combination of porn, masturbation, video games, marijuana, and excessive alcohol consumption.

Tell me why cold approach won't work for you.

Cold approach is not an easy path. A lot of women use earbuds/headphones to deter approaches in the gym and outdoors. Indoor masking ruined indoor retail game for at least 2 years, but indoor retail game started to open up again in the 2nd half of 2022. Indoor retail game has been back for a year now, which is good. The majority of people are in some sort of relationship at any given time so there are times you'll be doing approaches on women with boyfriends and possibly even husbands if you aren't careful and don't do ring checks with a quick hand glance before approaching***. Most women with boyfriends will be disinterested in your approach. If you have social skills, you'll notice the disinterest, the conversation will go nowhere, and you won't even ask her out. You'll never know if she has a boyfriend and that will be annoying. Occasionally, you'll ask out and she'll claim to have a boyfriend. I recommend using a boyfriend destroyer line (Google them) in most of those situations because a lot of times either the boyfriend is fake or the relationship is mediocre-subpar and the woman is willing to monkey branch to you if you show enough value. Delivering a boyfriend destroyer line is a demonstration of value.

Cold approach is very time consuming. Read the @Jesse Pinkman approach thread below for an example of how time consuming it may be. If you're starting a cold approach journey with 0 options right now, you'll probably looking at doing an approach session multiple days a week in order to start arranging some dates. If that's too overwhelming, you could use the Roosh method of one approach per day. In May 2013, former PUA Roosh wrote an article promoting the idea that it was wise for seducers to do at least one daily approach (see below). If you don't want to do dedicated approach sessions, you could do something like a one approach every day tactic.

Jesse Pinkman's approach/field reports thread.

So I thought that since I am going out and approaching so much, why not post a field report thread. Yeah, it is a little over 3 AM and I am posting this but whatever. Hate to post a new thread every time I go out and do approaches so I will just keep bumping this one (until mods make an official...

www.sosuave.net

One Approach A Day

You also say that social circle game won't work for you. Why is that? I have never had a social circle capable of introducing me to women for dates, so I have had to rely on other methods as well. This has mostly been the result of childhood and early adulthood relocations. Even though I've been in my current city for a while, I've never been able to get into the good social circles in my city.

My city is a transplant heavy city. A good portion of the transplants are married couples with families who settle in the suburbs. That won't affect most singles unless you feel like hunting for bored married women, which isn't easy to do.

Because social circles tend to be weaker, people aren't closed off in my city. Stranger approaches are usually at least cordial and there isn't any hostility to outsiders, unlike some other areas of the USA. The rootless nature of a lot of transplanted adults in my city leads to a lot of app-based dating, which puts men in a more difficult position. The better play is to approach strangers and join in on whatever in-person events that you can attend.

The weak social circles do contribute to my city's pretentious reputation. Because a lot of people are meeting strangers, there are no consequences for bad behavior. When there's no attachment, women can be as superficial as they please.

Getting into one of the social circles with my city's natives with strong roots isn't that easy to do. Most transplanted adults to my city won't get into those or they will be on the fringes of them. Some of those people have been my co-workers at various jobs over the years but not people I spent much time with during leisure time periods in my life.
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* The illusion of convenience for swipe apps is easy to follow. It feels a lot easier to sit at home and swipe as compared to showering, get dressed, possibly driving somewhere, and going out into the real world for 1-3 hours and trying to approach people. It can be deflating to go to a walking path in a major city for 2 hours and see 0 viable approach or making a few approaches and get zero numbers/arrange 0 dates.

** - Commercialized pool parties tend to be sausage fests. It's the worst aspects of night game during the day. Also, you're going to want to have a top tier physique to succeed at pool parties with the terrible ratios. See thread below.

Getting Laid as a Result of Going to Pool Parties

After using the Search function here, I realize that there hasn't been a lot of discussion about getting laid as a result of going to pool parties. The lay doesn't have to happen on the same day as the pool party, but at some time after meeting a woman at a pool party. Let me be more specific...

www.sosuave.net

*** -- When I do indoor retail game approaching, I tend to look at women's hands briefly in order to avoid approaching a married woman. This has saved me from doing many approaches over time. I do most of my approaches in areas of my city with a high concentration of unmarried women. However, while my primary mall for approaching is near an area where mostly unmarried women live, there are plenty of married women who visit this mall.

 

[BergischerLöwe]

Most men have options other than the swipe apps. Men that claim to have no other options are lazy and/or fall for the illusion of convenience lie of swipe apps*. I'm 40 years old. I don't need a swipe app to meet women.

Why don't I need a swipe app?

I live in one of the biggest cities/metro areas in the USA. I live in a part of that city where younger, never married women tend to live. I utilize a combination of venues for approaching women. I am mainly a day game guy and have mainly been a day game guy since reading Roosh's "Day Bang" soon after its September 2011 publication. When I read "Day Bang", I was already in my late 20s and 30 was coming soon. I had been doing night game for many years at that point in life.

Think about me in the last 5 years, as a 35+ guy. Most men who are 35-40 years old are mindlessly swiping on apps. They are vagina beggars who are going to end up settling for the most mediocre woman they meet from using a swipe app or sending DMs on Instagram who will tolerate them. I'm not that guy.

I can approach women in the real world wherever I go. Even if I didn't approach women in non-bar venues, I could go to bars multiple nights a week and approach women in bars. I could go to pool parties if I wanted to do that**.



This shows me that your inner game is off as well. My sense is that you don't have healthy lifestyle habits that are crucial parts of being able to game. I do not watch porn, masturbate, I have an exercise routine, and I avoid processed foods as much as possible. If you avoid porn and masturbation, you are going to be so horny and more aggressive in general. This is good. This will give you the motivation to start interactions with women.

In part due to my lifestyle habits, I can walk outdoors on a walking path, see a woman where I have an opportunity to deliver a good opener, open her, and have some sort of conversation with her. The conversation can go nowhere, but I can be a late 30s/early 40s guy opening 22-24 year olds. This has happened. I don't even have a top tier male physique. Most people would say I'm a 6.5-7 in looks. I'm 5'10" so I'm below the magical 6'0" threshold that women in the United States desire.

Too many men are sedating themselves with some combination of porn, masturbation, video games, marijuana, and excessive alcohol consumption.

Tell me why cold approach won't work for you.

Cold approach is not an easy path. A lot of women use earbuds/headphones to deter approaches in the gym and outdoors. Indoor masking ruined indoor retail game for at least 2 years, but indoor retail game started to open up again in the 2nd half of 2022. Indoor retail game has been back for a year now, which is good. The majority of people are in some sort of relationship at any given time so there are times you'll be doing approaches on women with boyfriends and possibly even husbands if you aren't careful and don't do ring checks with a quick hand glance before approaching***. Most women with boyfriends will be disinterested in your approach. If you have social skills, you'll notice the disinterest, the conversation will go nowhere, and you won't even ask her out. You'll never know if she has a boyfriend and that will be annoying. Occasionally, you'll ask out and she'll claim to have a boyfriend. I recommend using a boyfriend destroyer line (Google them) in most of those situations because a lot of times either the boyfriend is fake or the relationship is mediocre-subpar and the woman is willing to monkey branch to you if you show enough value. Delivering a boyfriend destroyer line is a demonstration of value.

Cold approach is very time consuming. Read the @Jesse Pinkman approach thread below for an example of how time consuming it may be. If you're starting a cold approach journey with 0 options right now, you'll probably looking at doing an approach session multiple days a week in order to start arranging some dates. If that's too overwhelming, you could use the Roosh method of one approach per day. In May 2013, former PUA Roosh wrote an article promoting the idea that it was wise for seducers to do at least one daily approach (see below). If you don't want to do dedicated approach sessions, you could do something like a one approach every day tactic.

Jesse Pinkman's approach/field reports thread.

So I thought that since I am going out and approaching so much, why not post a field report thread. Yeah, it is a little over 3 AM and I am posting this but whatever. Hate to post a new thread every time I go out and do approaches so I will just keep bumping this one (until mods make an official...

www.sosuave.net

One Approach A Day

You also say that social circle game won't work for you. Why is that? I have never had a social circle capable of introducing me to women for dates, so I have had to rely on other methods as well. This has mostly been the result of childhood and early adulthood relocations. Even though I've been in my current city for a while, I've never been able to get into the good social circles in my city.

My city is a transplant heavy city. A good portion of the transplants are married couples with families who settle in the suburbs. That won't affect most singles unless you feel like hunting for bored married women, which isn't easy to do.

Because social circles tend to be weaker, people aren't closed off in my city. Stranger approaches are usually at least cordial and there isn't any hostility to outsiders, unlike some other areas of the USA. The rootless nature of a lot of transplanted adults in my city leads to a lot of app-based dating, which puts men in a more difficult position. The better play is to approach strangers and join in on whatever in-person events that you can attend.

The weak social circles do contribute to my city's pretentious reputation. Because a lot of people are meeting strangers, there are no consequences for bad behavior. When there's no attachment, women can be as superficial as they please.

Getting into one of the social circles with my city's natives with strong roots isn't that easy to do. Most transplanted adults to my city won't get into those or they will be on the fringes of them. Some of those people have been my co-workers at various jobs over the years but not people I spent much time with during leisure time periods in my life.
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I have quite healthy life habits, especially compared to the average man in the united sh!tholes of america. I work out, eat right, don't watch porn, and I stay away from subversive media. Cold approach won't work for me for the following reasons:

1. I am naturally introverted, so the prospect of chatting up random women in public isn't one that I find pleasant or easy to do. For someone with my sort of personality cold approach simply isn't a good solution that's suited to my nature. As an introvert I don't have the energy to go out in public all the time just to approach. There's no way that would catch on.

2. The learning curve is very steep. It would take me YEARS of effort to learn it and practice cold approach enough to get any good. My tolerance for frustration is pretty low and if I practiced cold approach without any meaningful results eventually I would just give up.

3. Most guys who do cold approach, even those who have spent years doing it and have written thick books about it say that the turnover rate is quite low. As far as I know less than 10% of approaches lead to anything, even among experienced cold approachers. I wouldn't have any better results with cold approach than I would have with apps.

4. The MSM and the SJWs have launched a huge psyop in recent years to make it socially unacceptable for men to approach women in public, and this in turn has made women far less receptive to cold approach than they would have otherwise been in the past

5. Women's standards have tended to only go up in recent years. Even though I'm a fairly attractive guy I've always been stuck hooking up with mid tier women. Even if I were good at cold approach I wouldn't be able to attract women any more attractive than what I'm used to, I would still be stuck with mid tier women at the end of the day.

With the above considered, it's clear to me why I wouldn't try to learn cold approach. I would have to put in years of effort learning it only for the returns to be no better than what I've gotten from apps. Plus considering that I'm introverted and keep to myself most of the time even if I decided to learn cold appraoch I would have to force myself to try and do it and even then it wouldn't stick. Meeting women is supposed to be fun, and cold approach to someone like me is just one long, arduous slog. Even though dating apps are terrible they're still my best bet in the end

 

[I_have_BDE]

I have quite healthy life habits, especially compared to the average man in the united sh!tholes of america. I work out, eat right, don't watch porn, and I stay away from subversive media. Cold approach won't work for me for the following reasons:

1. I am naturally introverted, so the prospect of chatting up random women in public isn't one that I find pleasant or easy to do. For someone with my sort of personality cold approach simply isn't a good solution that's suited to my nature. As an introvert I don't have the energy to go out in public all the time just to approach. There's no way that would catch on.

2. The learning curve is very steep. It would take me YEARS of effort to learn it and practice cold approach enough to get any good. My tolerance for frustration is pretty low and if I practiced cold approach without any meaningful results eventually I would just give up.

3. Most guys who do cold approach, even those who have spent years doing it and have written thick books about it say that the turnover rate is quite low. As far as I know less than 10% of approaches lead to anything, even among experienced cold approachers. I wouldn't have any better results with cold approach than I would have with apps.

4. The MSM and the SJWs have launched a huge psyop in recent years to make it socially unacceptable for men to approach women in public, and this in turn has made women far less receptive to cold approach than they would have otherwise been in the past

5. Women's standards have tended to only go up in recent years. Even though I'm a fairly attractive guy I've always been stuck hooking up with mid tier women. Even if I were good at cold approach I wouldn't be able to attract women any more attractive than what I'm used to, I would still be stuck with mid tier women at the end of the day.

With the above considered, it's clear to me why I wouldn't try to learn cold approach. I would have to put in years of effort learning it only for the returns to be no better than what I've gotten from apps. Plus considering that I'm introverted and keep to myself most of the time even if I decided to learn cold appraoch I would have to force myself to try and do it and even then it wouldn't stick. Meeting women is supposed to be fun, and cold approach to someone like me is just one long, arduous slog. Even though dating apps are terrible they're still my best bet in the end

Also thank the stupid masks. I still see people of all ages wearing these masks in public at times. hard to see half their face and teeth with the things on.

 

[BergischerLöwe]

Also thank the stupid masks. I still see people of all ages wearing these masks in public at times. hard to see half their face and teeth with the things on.

Overall cold approach seems very much to me like 2008's solution to the problems of the modern dating scene. It may have worked then, but things have changed so much since then that most guys are better off not learning it. PUA stuff has become increasingly less relevant as the years have gone on

 

[SmoothSmooth]

Instagram is the new dating app and even then, barely worthwhile

 

[BergischerLöwe]

Instagram is the new dating app and even then, barely worthwhile

I've never used it to try and get dates, seems like quite a long shot. Maybe IG works for influencers but not for the rest of us

 

[SW15]

cold approach seems very much to me like 2008's solution to the problems of the modern dating scene. It may have worked then, but things have changed so much since then that most guys are better off not learning it. PUA stuff has become increasingly less relevant as the years have gone on

I was around in 2008. Approaching strangers randomly in 2008 wasn't even a great solution then.

The biggest problem with approaching strangers, especially in non-bar venues, is that it is unknown if they are in the market for new penis. There's a lot of inefficiency baked into non-bar approaching. In theory, bar approaching is supposed to be better. Why would a woman show up to a bar if she's not looking to find some new penis? However, bars have long been ruined by shiitty behavior and non-serious prospects. Also, women are known to have their defenses way up at bars because every horny guy is hitting on them then. Every John Paycheck, Average Frustrated Chump beta male goes out to bars every weekend night and hopes to "get lucky". Pathetic mindset! All these guys do are piss off women with bad approaches. This is why bar game is better during weeknight happy hour type times or later nights on weeknights. Less of a crowd, more serious prospects. If a woman is out at 11 PM on a Tuesday night, she is more serious about meeting men.

Swipe apps have a greater degree of inefficiency baked into it. Communication is not in real time. Men far outnumber women there on the levels of the biggest sausagefest nightlife venues. Women have sky high expectations and a lot of them aren't even serious about new penis.

I have quite healthy life habits, especially compared to the average man in the united sh!tholes of america. I work out, eat right, don't watch porn, and I stay away from subversive media. Cold approach won't work for me for the following reasons:

That's decent. So why won't cold approaching work for you?

1. I am naturally introverted, so the prospect of chatting up random women in public isn't one that I find pleasant or easy to do. For someone with my sort of personality cold approach simply isn't a good solution that's suited to my nature. As an introvert I don't have the energy to go out in public all the time just to approach. There's no way that would catch on.

I am introverted as well, though my introversion seems more mild than your introversion or a lot of people's. The reason I choose in-person approaching is because I lack a social circle capable of introductions (always have) and the tech-based methods are a shiit show.

2. The learning curve is very steep. It would take me YEARS of effort to learn it and practice cold approach enough to get any good. My tolerance for frustration is pretty low and if I practiced cold approach without any meaningful results eventually I would just give up.

Valid point. It's a tough learning curve. It's multiple years. If a man starts approaching at 16 in high school, he might get good at it by the time college is over.

3. Most guys who do cold approach, even those who have spent years doing it and have written thick books about it say that the turnover rate is quite low. As far as I know less than 10% of approaches lead to anything, even among experienced cold approachers. I wouldn't have any better results with cold approach than I would have with apps.

I've been in the mating environment for nearly 25 years. My first approach was when I was in high school. Less than 10% of approaches result in a date/number exchange in my experience. Less than 1% of right swipes result in a match and only a small percentage of matches convert to an actual date. Only a small percentage of dates are worthwhile, as most swipe apps dates are "one date, no sex, no second date". If you sit at home and swipe thousands of profiles in a big city, you might be able to make up for the inefficiency on sheer volume of swipes. It's difficult to do a lot of volume of stranger approaches. Even the biggest spam approachers in bars can't do the volume of a guy who swipes through thousands of women on an app.

4. The MSM and the SJWs have launched a huge psyop in recent years to make it socially unacceptable for men to approach women in public, and this in turn has made women far less receptive to cold approach than they would have otherwise been in the past

This is partially true. Most approaches will be at least cordial if the man is socially calibrated and isn't some sort of weird or toxic guy. That doesn't mean a date is arranged or a number is exchanged. In most cordial approaches, the conversation goes nowhere and often a date isn't even offered, or a date offer is rejected.

Women are discouraging approaches in person through their use of technology. At the gym and outdoors, women are wearing earbuds to discourage approaches and the use of earbuds does reduce their approach volumes, though not by that much since a lot of men are too chicken shiit to approach in a gym or outdoors. Also, women are often putting their faces in the phones and not being receptive to in-person approaches. Not sure how much the MSM or SJWs have to do with that.

This is somewhat of a valid point.

5. Women's standards have tended to only go up in recent years. Even though I'm a fairly attractive guy I've always been stuck hooking up with mid tier women. Even if I were good at cold approach I wouldn't be able to attract women any more attractive than what I'm used to, I would still be stuck with mid tier women at the end of the day.

Women's standards have gone up in recent years due to abundance. The typical woman now has every man who was too chicken shiit to approach in-person now hitting them up on swipe apps and through the DMs on multiple social media platforms, but mainly Instagram. In 1990, a woman's prospects entirely depended upon how active her in-person social life was. Now, a woman doesn't even need to leave home to have far more abundance than her 1990 equivalent. The average "5" on a swipe app today has more prospects than the top supermodels of 1990 had.

Women now have their swipe app prospects (if using), their social media DMs, and whatever in-person approaches they field. The first 2 options have given them far more options than anything they could do in-person.

it's clear to me why I wouldn't try to learn cold approach. I would have to put in years of effort learning it only for the returns to be no better than what I've gotten from apps. Plus considering that I'm introverted and keep to myself most of the time even if I decided to learn cold appraoch I would have to force myself to try and do it and even then it wouldn't stick. Meeting women is supposed to be fun, and cold approach to someone like me is just one long, arduous slog. Even though dating apps are terrible they're still my best bet in the end

Approaching strangers is inefficient and it is a slog. You have some valid viewpoints there. Swipe apps aren't your best bet because of how intense the male competition is and how many swinging penises you are competing with for a millisecond of her attention. Her standards are raised because of her abundance in the tech-based methods. If you approach her in the real world, you're more likely to stand out than in the DMs or in her swipe queue.

 

[SmoothSmooth]

I've never used it to try and get dates, seems like quite a long shot. Maybe IG works for influencers but not for the rest of us

The hot girls go for guys that have cool instagrams.
That doesn’t mean they necessarily meet ON instagram. They might meet at work, or a bar, or a different app first. But her assessment of you will be based on instagram.
But insta is basically your biggest SMV metric, outside of the vibe you have in real life.

 

[SmoothSmooth]

No, I don't just mean because it's a lot of fat chicks on there. I'm talking about more paywalls, less features. Bumble and Tinder for example are not even useable unless you pay for the premium ones. Match has taken away features, and POF wants you to pay now if you want to send more than like 2 messages a day. Upward app was free and easy. Now Match LLC bought them and only gives you a few swipes a day before you have to pony up.

I will say BEFORE covid hit, and the first year of covid OLD was a lot easier to use. Less paywall, more features and a ton more women. I mean there were some hot women on the apps and sites and fairly easy to get their phone numbers after exchanging a few messages.

Now I'd say 90 percent of the women on OLD across the board are undesirable and overall less women overall.

I'm guessing because it's post covid and people are going out a lot more now because they were locked up in their homes. Less OLD users means they gotta jack prices up and take features away. That's why you're seeing less women on there and the ones that use OLD and paying more are desperate because they're fat and ugly.

The Match owned apps seem to have a ton more fake profiles too. The feds are going after Match LLC for fraud. Wouldn't you think they would clean their act up?

Basically the dating apps are like cell service. Only a couple providers. Bumble, Match LLC, or free one facebook. It's a monopoly now. Quality always goes down with monopolies.

why do you feel entitled to OLD even being a viable way to meeting women? It’s literally the most retarded and unmasculine &unfeminin way of meeting people - uploading pictures on a mobile device and expecting people to want to meet you is borderline delusional/a recipe for meeting desperate people

 

[I_have_BDE]

Does anyone use E-Harmony anymore?

Dunno. Signed up for free once. Most of the women were 100 miles away in the large metro areas. A lot better quality though but hardly any in my area but looked better than the swipe app crap.

 

[BergischerLöwe]

I was around in 2008. Approaching strangers randomly in 2008 wasn't even a great solution then.

The biggest problem with approaching strangers, especially in non-bar venues, is that it is unknown if they are in the market for new penis. There's a lot of inefficiency baked into non-bar approaching. In theory, bar approaching is supposed to be better. Why would a woman show up to a bar if she's not looking to find some new penis? However, bars have long been ruined by shiitty behavior and non-serious prospects. Also, women are known to have their defenses way up at bars because every horny guy is hitting on them then. Every John Paycheck, Average Frustrated Chump beta male goes out to bars every weekend night and hopes to "get lucky". Pathetic mindset! All these guys do are piss off women with bad approaches. This is why bar game is better during weeknight happy hour type times or later nights on weeknights. Less of a crowd, more serious prospects. If a woman is out at 11 PM on a Tuesday night, she is more serious about meeting men.

Swipe apps have a greater degree of inefficiency baked into it. Communication is not in real time. Men far outnumber women there on the levels of the biggest sausagefest nightlife venues. Women have sky high expectations and a lot of them aren't even serious about new penis.



That's decent. So why won't cold approaching work for you?



I am introverted as well, though my introversion seems more mild than your introversion or a lot of people's. The reason I choose in-person approaching is because I lack a social circle capable of introductions (always have) and the tech-based methods are a shiit show.



Valid point. It's a tough learning curve. It's multiple years. If a man starts approaching at 16 in high school, he might get good at it by the time college is over.



I've been in the mating environment for nearly 25 years. My first approach was when I was in high school. Less than 10% of approaches result in a date/number exchange in my experience. Less than 1% of right swipes result in a match and only a small percentage of matches convert to an actual date. Only a small percentage of dates are worthwhile, as most swipe apps dates are "one date, no sex, no second date". If you sit at home and swipe thousands of profiles in a big city, you might be able to make up for the inefficiency on sheer volume of swipes. It's difficult to do a lot of volume of stranger approaches. Even the biggest spam approachers in bars can't do the volume of a guy who swipes through thousands of women on an app.



This is partially true. Most approaches will be at least cordial if the man is socially calibrated and isn't some sort of weird or toxic guy. That doesn't mean a date is arranged or a number is exchanged. In most cordial approaches, the conversation goes nowhere and often a date isn't even offered, or a date offer is rejected.

Women are discouraging approaches in person through their use of technology. At the gym and outdoors, women are wearing earbuds to discourage approaches and the use of earbuds does reduce their approach volumes, though not by that much since a lot of men are too chicken shiit to approach in a gym or outdoors. Also, women are often putting their faces in the phones and not being receptive to in-person approaches. Not sure how much the MSM or SJWs have to do with that.

This is somewhat of a valid point.



Women's standards have gone up in recent years due to abundance. The typical woman now has every man who was too chicken shiit to approach in-person now hitting them up on swipe apps and through the DMs on multiple social media platforms, but mainly Instagram. In 1990, a woman's prospects entirely depended upon how active her in-person social life was. Now, a woman doesn't even need to leave home to have far more abundance than her 1990 equivalent. The average "5" on a swipe app today has more prospects than the top supermodels of 1990 had.

Women now have their swipe app prospects (if using), their social media DMs, and whatever in-person approaches they field. The first 2 options have given them far more options than anything they could do in-person.



Approaching strangers is inefficient and it is a slog. You have some valid viewpoints there. Swipe apps aren't your best bet because of how intense the male competition is and how many swinging penises you are competing with for a millisecond of her attention. Her standards are raised because of her abundance in the tech-based methods. If you approach her in the real world, you're more likely to stand out than in the DMs or in her swipe queue.

1. Although my life habits are good, cold approach won't work for me for the reasons I already mentioned.

2. I too lack a social circle capable of introductions as well and I have no way of meeting women naturally irl. Dating apps are a load of crap but nevertheless it's the only way I can even have a chance of meeting women.

3. If the learning curve is that long, there's no way I could commit to that for that long of a time before seeing results. Based on your time frame given, if I'm 27 now then that means if I really worked at cold approach I just maybe might get good at it around the age of 33 or 34. By that point it'll be far too late, I'll be considerably older and the pool itself will be even more limited than it is now.

One HUGE disadvantage I have with respect to meeting women in real life is that I never dated or interacted with girls in high school. I should have learned back then how to deal with women in real life, and the fact that I didn't means that my development in that respect was stunted. At the time there were girls I liked and there probably were a couple who would have gone out with me, but I didn't try because I was so afraid of failure and that I would make a fool of myself. I went to a small private school, there were but 50 students in my grade and around 200 in the high school division. Thus the pool was quite small. Also since it was a small school if anyone did anything embarrassing gossip would travel fast and the whole school would know in a very short time. I was too afraid of messing up trying to interact with girls, embarrassing myself, and the whole school finding out thru gossip and laughing at me behind my back. It was probably irrational for me to believe that, but I did at the time and thus I went thru all of high school without ever doing anything with a girl, or even getting close. My best bet to meet dateable girls in those days would have likely been to try and meet girls from outside of school, but I didn't have any friends from outside of school and I didn't know any girls from outside of school either so that didn't happen.

In college I was playing catch up to everyone else, trying to make up for all that lost time. Not having learned to interact with girls as a teenager when I was supposed to put me at a disadvantage and it took a long time for me to have any success. My first kiss was at 19 and I didn't lose my virginity until my 3rd year of college at the old age of 21. Looking back it's absolutely criminal I was a virgin for that long. I wasn't some unattractive stereotypical virgin nerd addicted to video games and anime, I was a cool, decent looking guy with long hair who played in a rock band. The fact that I was a virgin for that long is really embarrassing to me, there's no excuse as to why it took that long. Either way all the successes I had back then were from meeting women on apps. Thus I began to rely on them exclusively. Like in high school, I never even tried to meet girls irl in college. It all seemed futile to me, especially since I had missed that critical period when I was a teenager when it would have been more forgiving to learn to interact with women irl in the proper way. If it wasn't for apps I would still be a virgin.

4. Indeed, the turnover rate of cold approach is less than 10%. If you say it takes so long to get good at cold approach and the turnover rate is that low, then I'm absolutely NOT going to waste YEARS learning it just to have the same poor results I get from apps. To put all that effort in for that minuscule a chance is INSANE

5. Finally somebody else acknowledges the MSM/SJW psyop going on. When I've brought that up on other forums people just gaslight me or say I'm making "excuses" of some kind

The real question is if there's any kind of viable alternative to cold approach for meeting women without apps. In my case, however, even if I somehow would meet a woman irl without cold approach nothing would come of it. Since I've never pulled a girl from start to finish irl there's no precedent of that in my life and I'm too nervous about it to try. I'm truly stuck in my situation with no way out. For me apps are the only way and I can't change that

 

[SW15]

If the learning curve is that long, there's no way I could commit to that for that long of a time before seeing results. Based on your time frame given, if I'm 27 now then that means if I really worked at cold approach I just maybe might get good at it around the age of 33 or 34. By that point it'll be far too late, I'll be considerably older and the pool itself will be even more limited than it is now.

Today is the youngest you'll ever be. Seize the day! You have a valid point about limited size pools. Dating in your 30s is more difficult in many ways than dating in your 20s. Dating in your 40s is even worse than your 30s. Single mothers become a big problem after age 30 in dating pools. You need to be excellent in some way to get age gaps of 10+ years once you are 30-35. If a 40 year old man wants to date a 25 year old woman, he typically needs to be rich. A better than average physique + rich is often what works for the 40 year old trying to date a 25 year old. For a 40 year old to get a 10+ year age gap, he's better off trying to do that in person because a lot of women won't see him on the apps because they filter their card stack to men within 5-7 years of their own age. Most men end up dating someone less than 5 years younger than they are, and the typical age gap is 2-3 years if couples meet after about age 23 or so. There are narrower age gaps for those who meet in high school and college.

One HUGE disadvantage I have with respect to meeting women in real life is that I never dated or interacted with girls in high school. I should have learned back then how to deal with women in real life, and the fact that I didn't means that my development in that respect was stunted. At the time there were girls I liked and there probably were a couple who would have gone out with me, but I didn't try because I was so afraid of failure and that I would make a fool of myself. I went to a small private school, there were but 50 students in my grade and around 200 in the high school division. Thus the pool was quite small. Also since it was a small school if anyone did anything embarrassing gossip would travel fast and the whole school would know in a very short time. I was too afraid of messing up trying to interact with girls, embarrassing myself, and the whole school finding out thru gossip and laughing at me behind my back. It was probably irrational for me to believe that, but I did at the time and thus I went thru all of high school without ever doing anything with a girl, or even getting close. My best bet to meet dateable girls in those days would have likely been to try and meet girls from outside of school, but I didn't have any friends from outside of school and I didn't know any girls from outside of school either so that didn't happen.

I agree that a smaller high school is a worse mating environment than a larger one. 50 students per grade level doesn't leave a lot of selection. That's going to be 25 females per grade level if ratios are 50-50, which they often are not. In life, too little choice is bad. However, too much choice is also bad. Big city women using swipe apps end up having too much choice.

A bad high school experience can have longer term effects. There are plenty of men today 30+ in the mating environment who are feeling the effects of a bad high school experience. You don't need to be a top tier poon slayer in high school to be ready for the mating environment in the next stage of life. However, having at least some good experience in high school can serve as a building block for the next phase. One girlfriend for a good portion of at least one year of high school is enough of a building block for the next phase. If someone goes from high school to college or working world with no dates and no sex while in high school, that's not going to make the next phase easy.

In college I was playing catch up to everyone else, trying to make up for all that lost time. Not having learned to interact with girls as a teenager when I was supposed to put me at a disadvantage and it took a long time for me to have any success. My first kiss was at 19 and I didn't lose my virginity until my 3rd year of college at the old age of 21. Looking back it's absolutely criminal I was a virgin for that long. I wasn't some unattractive stereotypical virgin nerd addicted to video games and anime, I was a cool, decent looking guy with long hair who played in a rock band. The fact that I was a virgin for that long is really embarrassing to me, there's no excuse as to why it took that long. Either way all the successes I had back then were from meeting women on apps. Thus I began to rely on them exclusively. Like in high school, I never even tried to meet girls irl in college. It all seemed futile to me, especially since I had missed that critical period when I was a teenager when it would have been more forgiving to learn to interact with women irl in the proper way. If it wasn't for apps I would still be a virgin.

The upside is that you managed to get laid in your 3rd year of college as a 21 year old. Imagine going through 4-5 years of college, getting a bachelor's degree, and managing not to have sex for the entirety your time in college. That would be very bad.

There's a great thread on college sex in this forum (see below). The 50th percentile guy at college isn't having much sex, regardless of the ratios at his college. Ratios in colleges have gotten more favorable for men in the last 15 years or so. When I went to college (2001-2005), ratios were closer to 50-50 in most schools.

In the past 10 years, college students have been far more likely to use swipe apps as compared to the likelihood of college students using dating websites in 2001-2005. In 2004, very few college students were using dating websites. Around the time I was in college is when dating websites were becoming de-stigmatized in the general population (mainly people in the working world) but were still rarer in colleges.

College is not a vagina paradise for most college students. First year freshman men are competing for freshman women with the sophomores, juniors, and seniors. The typical sophomore-junior year female doesn't want to fucck a freshman either.

The upside about college campuses is that almost everyone is unmarried and there are almost no single moms of typical undergrad age (18-23). The downside of college campuses is that it doesn't take very long for women on campus to find a boyfriend or get into a top tier guy's rotation in a situationship. Either way, a lot of women are quickly off the market for new penis and won't be open to fielding your approach.

Most college men are most likely to score consistently while on campus if they can find themselves a committed girlfriend or 2 during their time in college. That won't mean they put up big notch count numbers for their college tenures but their frequency of sex will be good if following that path.

Observations about college sex life from someone that went to a party school.

I thought I'd share this as someone who went to a party school and was in a fraternity there as well. Not wanting to give too much about myself but I went to UGA and graduated a few years ago. While Athens has its hot girls, I do feel like the quality got worse every year due to the admission...

www.sosuave.net

Indeed, the turnover rate of cold approach is less than 10%. If you say it takes so long to get good at cold approach and the turnover rate is that low, then I'm absolutely NOT going to waste YEARS learning it just to have the same poor results I get from apps. To put all that effort in for that minuscule a chance is INSANE

Approaching strangers, swiping on apps, and sending random DMs on Instagram are all difficult paths.

Finally somebody else acknowledges the MSM/SJW psyop going on. When I've brought that up on other forums people just gaslight me or say I'm making "excuses" of some kind

I've lived long enough to see the changes. Think about the 1980s-early 2000s. There were Walkmans, Discmans, and even early iPods/MP3 players. Women weren't were headphones/earbuds at the same rate as you've now.

If I were to think about my college gym in 2003, I would estimate that 10-20% of women wore headphones/earbuds to the gym with a personal music playing device. By the early 2010s, my estimate would have been 85-90%, a number that has stayed consistent in the last 10-12 years. Women are obsessed with wearing earbuds at the gym and on outdoor walking/hiking paths.

Male earbud wearing percentages are far lower, both at the gym at outdoors.

Women are actively discouraging approaches in-person by using earbuds/headphones.

 

[SW15]

The real question is if there's any kind of viable alternative to cold approach for meeting women without apps.

The best alternative is a strong social circle, which often takes years to build and often relies upon factors outside of the individual's control. The men that I have seen use social circle the best are men who live in the same area for their entire K-12 years and returned to that same area as adults. If these men go to college, they typically go to an in-state public university or nearby (within a few hours driving) private college/university. These are men who are very regionally rooted. They can thank their parents for keeping them in the same area for their entire childhoods.

The people who tend to use swipe apps in major cities are rootless adults who have relocated multiple times and never had a social circle. This is true for both men and women. In my city, when I used swipe apps, I rarely ever interacted with someone native to my city. The women who were native to my city had no need to use swipe apps as their social circles were strong enough.

Other options for approaching include co-ed sports leagues and other activity-based gatherings. These are essentially cold approaches, as you are introducing yourself to a stranger in your co-ed sports league or activity-based gathering. It's a little bit easier than random striking up a conversation at a mall, bookstore, or on the street/walking path, but not that much.

 

[I_have_BDE]

Yeah I heard that E-Harmony doesnt have many people on there site

It's probably crap like all the others now, but since it's expensive and takes more effort I would think it's quality over quantity. Catholic Match use to have some hotties too. Expensive and most were in the major cities a couple hours away.