why is it so hard now?

[Latinoman]

When I hear really old couples talk about how they started dating and when I read books from way back when it becomes quite clear that things used to be different. The old guys here likely have lived long enough to notice the change. The fact is way back dating was easier. There weren't all these mind games and you didn't need special techniques to get a girl. These days it's different. So why do you think it is that getting a girl back then was so easy and simple and getting a girl today is so hard and complicated?

I would say it is a combination of the following:

1- Women are more independent NOW, more so than 40+ years ago (note: no one in here was dating that far back - lol). Consequently, they depended more on men.
2- Women are more educated NOW, more so than 40+ years ago.
3- Women are more "liberated" NOW, more so than 40+ years ago.
4- Men are less masculine NOW, considerably less than 40+ years ago.
5- Television and Holliwood has puszyfied the American male and created some B.S. societal lies to adopt to women (the people that watch the most t.v.) in the last 40 or so years.

 

[Latinoman]

There's no "poor time" for couples these days. Most older couples today had that poor period where they paid their dues and built the foundation of a strong marriage and family.

That is one of the reasons my marriaged lasted so long (we were both poor and stood by each other), and too be honest, would have lasted ALL our lives if I would have not decided to move on.

And one of the reasons that I might NEVER marry again (I'm making good money now, own a house, etc., and I know most women would consider me marriage material because of those things).

 

[Latinoman]

I blame equal rights. I suspect that big business interests in the US were behind the womens' rights movements. As women have entered the workforce, wages have steadily declined. Twice as many workers end up with half the pay. Women had a good deal in the 1940's and 50's in that all they had to do was marry a man who wanted to work. One income could support a family and save for retirement. A factory job or small farm was enough to live well. Those days are long gone.

No offense, but some of the VERY BEST peers I have had (white collar profession) have been women. CONSIDERABLY better than most men. I don't see how productivity can go lower with them (everything else equal). Especially in White Collar jobs.

A woman has to gives 100% (compared to a 70% white male effort) to even been appreciated. In another words, if a white man is giving 70% effort, the woman would have to give 100% in order to get the SAME notice.

Another thing, while men were fighting in the Great Wars, women were the ones keeping our economy running.

 

[Bible_Belt]

Think about what would happen to wages if tomorrow every woman decided she wanted to get married and be a housewife. There would be a bidding war for the remaining labor. Wages would more than double; they would probably triple. Those women would end up making more money by staying home and sharing their husband's pay. Jobs like Home Depot and Wal-Mart would have to pay $15-20/hr just to keep enough help to stay open, but this would cut into profits, which would make their share price go down, which makes the 10% of the US that owns 90% of the wealth very unhappy. Feminism is good for profits, because it creates more competition for jobs and drives down labor costs.

None of this relates to the abilities of women compared to men. The genders are apples and oranges. They are different in so many ways that the manner in which we try to make things 'equal' is just absurd.

 

[Latinoman]

Think about what would happen to wages if tomorrow every woman decided she wanted to get married and be a housewife. There would be a bidding war for the remaining labor. Wages would more than double; they would probably triple. Those women would end up making more money by staying home and sharing their husband's pay. Jobs like Home Depot and Wal-Mart would have to pay $15-20/hr just to keep enough help to stay open, but this would cut into profits, which would make their share price go down, which makes the 10% of the US that owns 90% of the wealth very unhappy. Feminism is good for profits, because it creates more competition for jobs and drives down labor costs.

None of this relates to the abilities of women compared to men. The genders are apples and oranges. They are different in so many ways that the manner in which we try to make things 'equal' is just absurd.

Dude...I strongly suggest you stick to writing about issues you clearly understand. Because, by reading your posts, I've reached the conclusion that you have little understanding (if any) on what's going on in Corporate America.

I used to recruit white collar workers in specialized fields in science (bs, ms, phd type). And I have news for you...most of the EDUCATED work force in America is going to be women (or foreign men/women from places such as India, Pakistan, China, etc.). I'm talking here in the field of science (engineering, geology, etc.) and not "law" or any other crap.

If all the AMERICAN women decided to quit their jobs tomorrow...we would have to hire LOW QUALITY men to fill those positions. Service would be crappy. And then China, India, etc. would certainly take OVER the global market.



And what TRULY drives prices down is OUTSOURCING (to India, China, Mexico, etc.). Women is not the issue...in fact, they going to school and getting educate is a GREAT thing. Considering that most men are wasting their times in college or lack the desire to better themselves...if men are not as masculine as 40 years ago, we might as well give that Corporate "masculinity" to our women.

 

[d9930380]

Loss of religion, contraception and divorce! - And the amount of men that are happy with a single mom.

It allows women to play the field without the consequences of the past. They aren't looking for husbands any more.

Basically "nice" guys don't get any play until women are in their 30s and are looking to settle down. ALOT of times they also have a kid for him to look after too.

It's funny. A single mum I knew was coming on to me at work - like everytime we went out. It made me REALLY uncomfortable. She said that there just aren't any good men out there and I said that there weren't any good women. I felt like saying: "What good man is going to want to marry you and raise YOUR kid!". You can bet your ass the guy was a good looking jerk (the kid was gorgeous).

 

[DanelMadr]

Hard times

Lets see whats different now.
1. Women are independent - they dont need a provider to survive; can quit marriage/relationship if it fails; they dont need old,fat, rich men, they can choose better now; anticonception and culture made sexual freedom
2. Men are pusxies - no war, no fist-fights, still locked in "provider" model

50 000 years ago AFC's got eaten by wild animals or starved to death
1 000 years ago AFC's got killed in the battlefield
NOW it is AFC society.
Media? It is ruled by homosexuals; women do shopping - advertising is for them so TV progs are for them.

People are the same....now women are free and it is good cause now you can see who love you for who you are and not because of your wallet. Some women only love themselves (50000 years ago or now) and you cant change it just avoid them.

Fvck the society...be a real man....real women will love you for that

 

[Vulpine]

Brain Aneurism!

Billboards, magizines, commercials, come on, you are not so young that you do not remember the "I can bring home the bacon, fry it up in a pan....."

Talk about the puzzification of males by media. That commercial, if I remember correctly, ran about the same time as the ever famous "Calgon, take me away!" commercial. I just read the "bring home the bacon" thing there and I started to see red.

We all laugh as we recount "I can bring home the bacon... fry it up in a pan." Noone ever recites the second, and more offensive, line of that little jingle:

"I can do all those things to make you forget you're a man - 'cuz I'm a WOOoooMUHN! *Awwwzzzuuuleee!*"

Make me forget I'm a man? Uh... do I want to forget? Hmm. What do you mean, make me forget I'm a man? WHAT THE FUX IS THAT SUPPOSED TO MEAN?!?!

That commercial, for me, stands as a benchmark for media's anti-male marketing campaign. Could you imagine June Cleaver bringing home the bacon, frying it up in a pan, then yelling "Calgon! Take me away!"? It just seems so, so... wrong.

 

[Bad_Lil'Pixie]

Talk about the puzzification of males by media. That commercial, if I remember correctly, ran about the same time as the ever famous "Calgon, take me away!" commercial. I just read the "bring home the bacon" thing there and I started to see red.

We all laugh as we recount "I can bring home the bacon... fry it up in a pan." Noone ever recites the second, and more offensive, line of that little jingle:

"I can do all those things to make you forget you're a man - 'cuz I'm a WOOoooMUHN! *Awwwzzzuuuleee!*"

Make me forget I'm a man? Uh... do I want to forget? Hmm. What do you mean, make me forget I'm a man? WHAT THE FUX IS THAT SUPPOSED TO MEAN?!?!

That commercial, for me, stands as a benchmark for media's anti-male marketing campaign. Could you imagine June Cleaver bringing home the bacon, frying it up in a pan, then yelling "Calgon! Take me away!"? It just seems so, so... wrong.

Oh, I am with you and I do NOT want my man to "forget he's a man" either. Kids books and cartoons took the same spin, weak males, smarter moms kids running the show.

Today, it is worse the ever, I want my brawny man back, the lumberjack that tracks sh*t on my floors!!! What is it with the new "powder puff" brawny man baking the cake, with some piped in soft porn voice???

Soaps, romance novels, etc., have been depicting men more and more as the needy little pups. These things are easy enough for us to overlook, but when commercials, kids books and ads are also shoving it down our throat how to we NOT be affected???

REAL STORY: My friends son brings home a school paper. A story about a fisherman and his wife. In it, she addresses her husband as "Oh, stupid man". O_O! So since the school "taught" that, is it ok for the child to address his own father as, "oh, stupid man?"

Women too, you know the media befits all women as 5'7" 32"x24"x32". So everyone else is "odd" or unfit. Women use these depictions for guides and goal setting. Well, I am 5', so do I fall into a depression and feel I am forever substandard??? No, but many do.

Media isn't something we should believe or support, but it is there, every moment of everyday and too many use it as a measuring stick for real life situations.

I mean Brandon on Beverly Hills 90210 drove a convertible BMW and worked part time at a cafe where all his friends hung out so why can't I?

 

[Bible_Belt]

most of the EDUCATED work force in America is going to be women

And our country is going to hell at the same time. Those career women also think that they can have a marriage to a career-minded man and children all at the same time. Something has to give, and it is rarely the career. Kids are raised by day care and television. We tell them that men and women are equal, despite the obvious differences between the genders. When a father tells his kid to "act like a man," what does that mean?

Men and women are different. The genders cannot be 'equal' any more than apples can be equal to oranges. Men have been the providers and women have been the nurturers of the home for thousands of years. In just the past few decades we have changed everything. With such drastic change, there are bound to be consequences.

 

[A-Unit]

Re:

Believing is Seeing.

Remember this...

Whatever you believe, materializes.

Over the weekend, my gf and I were having a spat. In the past, we were very up and down. I would be quick to show her where the door was, and she would be quick to drop everything, or be a bit upset and then we'd work things out. But her never-ending question was..."How do we stop this?" (Referring to some certain disagreements...) The obvious questions is, YOU JUST DO WHAT IT IS YOU WANT. You just stop doing it. There isn't a SPECIFIC, logical strategy that gets you from POINT A to POINT B. It just stops if you WANT it to. Thing is, most people don't want "that" thing to stop, they want it to "change." Or the person to change...

That's what guys today want in society...the change. To blame problems elsewhere. The real ANALOGY to use is like...all the men are Out To Lunch, and the Women are at home partying it up, acting how they want to act, getting away with whatever they want, BECAUSE MEN ATTRACT AND ALLOW THE EXACT REALITY THEY LIVE IN.

Whenever I was in a bunch of arguements with women it was for the following reasons...

1) Normally it was stupid. Almost ALL disagreements are dumb. Rarely do you do anything INTENTIONAL to hurt someone close to you. You wouldn't do it to a friend. You wouldn't do it to family. So why would you do it to a girl? Right, you wouldn't. I explain this point first to her. It wasn't that I tried to hurt or disagree or confuse her, rather, SHE MISINTERPRETED the situation, OR, HER EXPECTATIONS were off base and not properly communicated to me.

2) If this UPSET is not confronted like the demon it is, it will fester in your past and it will scar your future. An injury or hurt or pain like that, which either you or your friend/partner DO NOT confront and foregive, will change your perception of that person, thereby changing the future perceptions and the outcome will then flow INLINE with exactly what you think. If your perception is now one of hurt, instead of love (pure, true love - i.e. the source of what we are), then you will bring about the circumstances you hold in your mind and heart. No 2 ways about it. You will ATTRACT that.

3) Each new day is a new moment. Each moment is unique. If you aren't CREATING new, exhilirating moments, then you are creating boring, unmemorable moments that will pave a life/relationship of mediocrity, or worse pain and upset. This is uniform for all people, regardless of sex. So don't let women cop out because they "are different." The fundamentals of humans are not that different.

---------------------

Why are things like what you perceive them to be? BECAUSE THAT is how you PERCEIVE THEM TO be?

Do you honestly believe a man who surrounds himself with many women will care of what circumstances you guys think about, bring about, create, or attract?

No!

Anytime a woman says to me..."If you do X, or Y, or Z to any other girl she'd dump you..." I consciously explain..."I do not care, I wouldn't date a girl of that type, or I'd be glad she was gone anyways, I wouldn't want a girl of that type."

Men, YOUR LAW, YOUR VALUES, YOUR VIRTUES, are UNIFORM, UNIVERSAL, SOLID, GOLD, LAW. Word is bond.

Men, you are ALLOWING and attracting EXACTLY what you believe/think, therefore IT reinforces itself. It compounds. You get more of it. No 2 ways about it.

It isn't that this is how it has to be should be, evolved this, or anything else. It's how you think it is. If ENOUGH guys thought ONE way, then things would appear one way. And if enough guys thought another way, it would appear another, different way, depending on what you think.

---------------------------

It's about what's right. What you want. And generating and living by what you believe and dying by what you believe. And you only die physically.

If anything, MEN are too easy to turn over. Too indulgent. Too easily seduced. Too easily coaxed. All skills native to women, that you can't compete on.

Case-in-point, my recently divorced MILF aunt was approached by a sleeze bag guy from her recent past wanting to date her. Their friendship never truly blossomed because as she was getting divorced, he was busy knocking up some sloot with kids with 3 different men, him being the 3rd. Obviously I being the protective, eldest nephew stepped in. The flags should have been obvious TO her, but weren't as a recent divorcee with 4 kids. They were...

-He banged a woman, stupidly, who had kids with other, different men.
-They weren't getting along.
-This guy is hyper-possessive and always worries that my aunt has my X-uncle over.
-He pushes to hard for the relationship.

She wants to be NICE about letting him down, but their relationship is almost strictly confined to the phone, and the occasional run-in in town. I told her...

"You can't offer objections on HIS playing field. Tell him you're done. You don't want a relationship. Please don't call. Lose my number. I'm not interested in you in that way. Pure, straight, strict rejection is the only way."

Same way with women, guys...their questions, their actions, their looks, their feelings are not-so cleverly disguised ways to feel you out, to motivate and manipulate you. However, guys today THINK they have to do what OTHER people want like some emotional slave. And that if they don't, they're a bad guy. SO WHAT! Be the bad guy! Bad is only a PERCEPTION. It's perception from the vantage point of the party you wronged. It's not even a chink in your armour.

STOP ATTRACTING A REALITY YOU DO NOT WANT. For every relationship you think does exist poorly, a great one opposite that exists, too. SO GO BELIEVE, CREATE, ATTRACT, ALLOW, AND FIND IT!

------------------------

You often wonder why is the news this way...The news is this way because if it can get enough people to BELIEVE "this is the way the world is," enough people will bring it into existence to make it so. And believing and attraction preceed ACTION. That's how the LAW works. If you believe the law of attraction works, you'll attract what you want AS YOU ACT TOWARD it. If you confidently believe you'll learn to sell well, take the steps, study, read, etc, and take action, then you will become great, JUST BECAUSE YOU BELIEVE IT TO BE SO IT WILL BE SO. So if the news is horrible, and PEOPLE accept that WE MUST have war, we must have dependence on oil, that we must have shytty politicians, etc, etc, they won't do much to ACT in a way proper to BRING about a better reality. Make sense? BUT, if we believe we can have a better reality, deserve a better one, and we take the steps to do so, NOTHING can stop us. Same with this woman situation...

It isn't entirely as one would think. It's merely the byproduct of PAST, NEGATIVE thoughts and actions, hopefully running it's course. Observing current reality with any level of force will bring more toward you.



A-Unit

 

[zergkiller]

Psychopolitics.

If you really want to begin a serious study as to “Why is it so hard now…?” you could start by reading this site:

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/7006/psychopolitics.html

 

[Latinoman]

most of the EDUCATED work force in America is going to be women

And our country is going to hell at the same time. Those career women also think that they can have a marriage to a career-minded man and children all at the same time. Something has to give, and it is rarely the career. Kids are raised by day care and television. We tell them that men and women are equal, despite the obvious differences between the genders. When a father tells his kid to "act like a man," what does that mean?

Men and women are different. The genders cannot be 'equal' any more than apples can be equal to oranges. Men have been the providers and women have been the nurturers of the home for thousands of years. In just the past few decades we have changed everything. With such drastic change, there are bound to be consequences.

Now...I am not disagreeing with your last post (see quote above).

I only disagreed with the "economics".

And yes, we are different in many things. And many times "equality" is just when is convenient for the WOMAN (e.g. if we had a male version of "Sex and the City" in which a group of 4 men in their 30s got together to make fun of the women they screwed...you can rest assured that women viewers would be complaining. But a show of four *****S is called "clear illustration of modern women".)

So, I see your point too.

 

[Proof]

Bible_Belt I agree with what you are saying for the most part. Women these days goto college, get a degree, get a professional job, get married, have kids, and either retire or take part-time status. Now not every woman does this of course, but many do. And I do agree that women in the work force has driven wages down, but not to the extent that you have implied.

The thing that makes me angry is how many liberals and women argue that women are paid less than men. Well, no ****, they work less and have less experiance for the most part. And dont even get me started about single moms that can get medicaid for her and her kids (AKA state funded children):cuss: . I have better things to spend my money on then raising your kids. If you cant afford children-- practice birth control religiously, get an abortion, or dont have sex.

By the way I will never get married.

STR8UP said it best: If an investment has less than a 50% potential of payoff than why invest? Especially if you can loose more than your initial investment?

 

[Latinoman]

Bible_Belt I agree with what you are saying for the most part. Women these days goto college, get a degree, get a professional job, get married, have kids, and either retire or take part-time status. Now not every woman does this of course, but many do. And I do agree that women in the work force has driven wages down, but not to the extent that you have implied.

What's next..."black", "Latinos", "Asian"...

As I said...some of the best Engineers I have worked with are women. Considerably better than most men.

The thing that makes me angry is how many liberals and women argue that women are paid less than men. Well, no ****, they work less and have less experiance for the most part.

Actually...they work HARDER and LONGER hours in order to be recognized at the same level as a man. They are not into the "boys club" thing either. And I know many that have as much or even more experience than men. Times are changing.

Now, I'm not talking about blue collar workers. I'm talking here about educated women.

And dont even get me started about single moms that can get medicaid for her and her kids (AKA state funded children):cuss: . I have better things to spend my money on then raising your kids. If you cant afford children-- practice birth control religiously, get an abortion, or dont have sex.

Actually, if men paid CHILD SUPPORT and/or enroll their children to healthcare...we wouldn't be having this problem. I have two kids from my ex. I have them in my health care and I pay child support (in fact, I give a little more). I spent time with them and I buy them clothes, etc.

By the way I will never get married.

STR8UP said it best: If an investment has less than a 50% potential of payoff than why invest? Especially if you can loose more than your initial investment?

And I say...if you choose good...then you should MAXIMIZE that investment. How can you choose good? First, you prepare yourself (1- knowing yourself, 2- maximize your skills, etc.)...second, you learn about your investment (1- understand woman, etc.)...third, you work in that investment.

It takes skills and great judgment to choose good and invest. Some people are good at it...and others are not.

 

[Bible_Belt]

I read that the Amish divorce rate is about one half of one percent. Yet, Americans who self-identify as 'Christian' have a slightly higher divorce rate than those who do not.

Also, here is an interesting survey of ministers:

http://www.ellisonresearch.com/ERPS II/release_13_family.htm

What do you believe are the three strongest threats to families in your community? (By denomination)

asked to a sample of 695 Protestant ministers

The three most commonly named threats were divorce (listed as one of the top three by 43% of all ministers), negative influences from the media (38%), and materialism (36%). These were followed by absentee fathers (24%) and families that lack a stay-at-home parent (22%)

 

[Victory Unlimited]

Bump.

 

[wayword]

If you told some U.S. woman today about older people living on nearly nothing, being happy, and being in love because of the qualities of class, respect, dignity, and integrity, she'd get on her cell phone, drop some f-bombs to her friends on how stupid you are, get in her gas guzzling SUV, and drive away.

It was easier back then because men and women had more defined roles. It was actually admirable to be a housewife and raise kids.

I blame the majority of marital/dating/relationship problems on women ... and yes, I know I'm biased there.

Totally agreed! Funny thing is, women were actually happy with that too - until a few bitter feminists convinced the next generation that they weren't...

Biggest difference? It's not what women are attracted to now. It's what women can get away with now.

In the good ol' days, we stuck a woman with the father of her first child, for life. Nowadays, woman are expected to have a few children with that sexy abusive drama king before settling down with a caring husband to be a daddy for her kids.
~Phyzzle

And yet here you are, Captain Save-A-Ho to the rescue of someone else's baby mama, lmao! :crackup:

You are correct to a degree about americans being anti-intellectual. In fact many of the innovations you see coming out of the US are being push forward by immigrants from china and india. Much of the faculty in colleges here are foreign born. We do want badly to be individuals and we also have an anti-government/authority thing going also to a degree.

BINGO.

 

[WestCoaster]

While I agree with Rollo that the good ol' days were not always so good. There were MORE classy guys and MORE classy women back in the day. Yes, there were scumbags galore, but you just didn't see skanky women with multiple tatoos walking down the street dropping 'f-bombs into a cell phone. (OK, no cell phones back then, but you get the idea.)

And guys didn't wear jeans that started at their knees and showed their butt cracks, put on backwards baseball caps with porn promotion on them, and walked around dropping f'bombs into cell phones.

The scumbags like this weren't admired and worshipped on TV every day, they were considered outcasts. Today, they are considered cool.

While certainly the 40's, 50's, and 60's weren't perfect -- rampant racisim in the 40's and 50's, for example -- there are some good things to take from those decades, namely some semblance of class, dignity, and respect, that both genders have tossed aside.

* Interestingly, another good story from my parents (I'm in my 40's, my dad was in WWII, he's still alive) ... when he was in grad school he and my mom went to Europe (he taught over there for a year). They went over there with little money. They decided to buy bicycles and biked all over Europe, including England, Ireland, Germany, France. They had a tent and camped out ... pretty primative bikes they were on. I asked them about this and they said it was great. Not much money, not staying in hotels, no fancy touring bikes, no fancy restaurants, but an experience of a lifetime.

No way, no how would any woman or man of the 21st century do this. Maybe some back-to-the-earth hippie, maybe, but not without a cell phone, an internet hook-up, and a few nights at the Marriott.

People are spoiled today, it shows in the attitudes of women AND men, IMO.

Feel free to disagree with me, though I think my theory holds some water.

Oh, and my mom's sister who chased money and glamour? Had a horrible divorce and her "values" are all based on materialism. My parents are still happily married to this day.

 

[Phyzzle]

And yet here you are, Captain Save-A-Ho to the rescue of someone else's baby mama, lmao!

Do as I say, not as I do.

NO! Just kidding! I'm NOT getting into a relationship with her. Like I said, just FB's. We specifically agreed on that.