Why has the seduction community become so negative?

[Pallanick]

Masculinity is an interesting thing. I will not deny that you can be kinda fat and masculine. However, I think a lot of masculinity outside of the obvious looks component is built on how you physically move (i.e. body language). A guy in shape will walk in a more effortless way than a guy that hasn't been to the gym for years. He'll **** her better with solely his **** because he'll be able to go really fast and hard without tiring. He'll be able to do all these new positions. He'll be strong enough to **** her against a wall without tiring. A weakling is not a good ****.

So, you're trying to say that you're fat? I'm simply refering to your previous post considering that he is getting all these hot girls and you are not.However if you're in shape(atleast not fat) and you ACT masculine. That's when I think girls initially won't sense it on you (as they do when you're buff), BUT when you act the part, then you will become the more masculine male, in her eyes. That in terms, will make her think that you're more attractive then your friends, hence why attraction is not a choice.

 

[blueline]

So, you're trying to say that you're fat? I'm simply refering to your previous post considering that he is getting all these hot girls and you are not.However if you're in shape(atleast not fat) and you ACT masculine. That's when I think girls initially won't sense it on you (as they do when you're buff), BUT when you act the part, then you will become the more masculine male, in her eyes. That in terms, will make her think that you're more attractive then your friends, hence why attraction is not a choice.

Nah, I'm not fat, just skinny, gangly, and kinda poorly coordinated. Dunno which is worse, probably fat. The solution is obviously to stop reading so much SS, lift weights, and get into judo or some martial art to work on my coordination. I can get numbers, get makeouts, get SNLs with 6's, and occassionally fuck a low self-esteem 7 or 8. The odds of ****ing the 7 or 8 decrease markedly. The 7 or 8 is often desperate or needy, and not a high quality girl. My game is really good with 6's, I get all those nice pre-approach signals and IOI's. When you get those pre-approach or initial approach IOI's, you are typically golden. It's good.

 

[LuisGarcia10]

People take it too seriously and rely on it too much. The name "bible" probably does not help to prevent people from taking everything said on this website as utter gospel.
At the end of the day the basic principles are correct, I have followed much of the advice here and my success with women has increased, I have a long way to go but before I found this place I was a virgin and had never had a girlfriend, neither is true now. Not only that but I can tell by the way women look at me etc, the attraction I can see in their eyes etc is there, it never was before. And now it's totally effortless to appear attractive, and that isn't just the work of sosuave, it's me developing as a person, but the info here has played a massive part.
I still make loads of mistakes etc, got dumped recently for falling into AFC ways, but overall the difference is huge. If you start meeting women in bars and constantly asking yourself what sosuave told you to do then you'll probably **** it up. Just read, absorb, follow some of the advice, notice the changes in results, allow said changes to increase your confidence, and do not get defeatist about it.
At the end of the day, in my opinion, every failure is a step closer to success. See it that way and it becomes far less annoying when you don't get results.

 

[Alle_Gory]

Reality tends to make us cynical. It takes a strong man to see the truth and still keep his soul intact.

 

[f283000]

blueline, can you ask your friend which PUA book he learned the sexual talk with women from? From all the pua books I read i don't remember one talking about this sort of tactic.

 

[nismo-4]

The reason things have become negative is because seduction gurus, aside from a few concepts, are selling the average guy basically useless advice. One of my close friends is extremely good looking (looks like Tom Cruise), obsessed with reading PU theory material, and probably goes out cold approaching a bunch of women like twice a week. He's banged like 60 women at age 26 with probably 1/3 of the women being in the 8-9 range (his 7 is probably most DJ's 8). His MLTR's are never below a 7.5. For this guy, the biggest hurdle he needs to get over usually is his personality, because he can already get his foot in the door with tons of the girls he meets due to his physical appearance. This means that PU advice is really relevant to him because it fixes exactly where he goes wrong sometimes. For the average guy, however, when the same advice he uses is followed, it doesn't generate sexual attraction, it just generates a bunch of entertained, chatty women. Entertainment is not equivalent to sexual attraction.

This is some very true sh*t, especially what's in bold!

Also, in relationships, my friend basically ALWAYS has the pimp hand even with the hottest of chicks. As much as I hate to say it, the bizarre thing is that this dude is basically a loser by society's standards. He just turned 26, he's still in undergrad (finishes next semester with a ****ty degree after 9 yrs of ****ing around), still parties with college kids 7 yrs younger than him, does not have a job, frequently asks me for money, has drug problems, and he doesn't have all that many friends (however, the guy is very charming, just way too eccentric for some people). Don't you think women would get sick of that? He's obviously not a real man yet by societal standards and he doesn't have all that much going for him. Yet gorgeous women are absolutely CRUSHED when he breaks up with them. They will do ANYTHING for him in relationships (for example, his ex paid for his rent, bought him drugs, etc). It's not like he manipulated them in any way to get them into that crushed state.

Maybe he's a dealer or has access to drugs. Who knows?

He definitely gives them a good time and most likely really good sex since he's in such good shape. However, he does things that most DJ's would frown upon such as get oneitis, cry with women, spend every waking minute with a gf, and use txting for seduction (he'll get into these LONG sexualized txt conversations that last for days and eventually the girl does show up), talking about chocolate rivers filled with marshmallows in his txts, and he gets away with it. The girls are still head over heels in love with him and acting like total AFC's even when they have nothing in common with him. In fact, he basically gets used for sex by one Asian cutie.

The better your looks, the better your sex life will be.

We could pretend that it's his studying of the game that gets the babes turning into AFC's when they're in a relationship with him, but it really isn't. It's that he's presumably a good **** and looks like Tom Cruise. Replace his body with a fat man's body and he'd get laid way less even with the same quirky personality. I mean, ****, I'm his best friend and we must have at least similar personalities (imaginative, right on the border between introvert and extrovert, very deep thinkers, both of us love women, and spontaneous) and interests, and I get laid by hot chicks WAY less than him.

If you had looks like Tom Cruise or Brad Pitt, you'd be banging a lot of hot chicks consistently. For the average guy wanting a hot girl, the odds aren't in his favor.

This is why I do not, for the most part, believe in PU theory. After you get the bare bone basics (bare bone basics include being able to read body language, project open body language, not be nervous talking to women, and not be afraid of your sexuality) necessary for getting laid down, what determines you getting laid is your extroversion, the girl's self esteem, and your looks relative to her looks.

You really know how to speak the truth! A 4 can't have a 10 unless the 4 has A lot of wealth or status to go with it. Even then, He should get plastic surgery if needed. You hear about this stuff a lot in California. Ugly guys getting surgery to look more handsome, pimping their rides, driving High-end cars, doing whatever it takes to get more female attention. I had to pimp my ride in New Orleans to get more female attention as well as wear a Fake Rolex/ Omega Watch. It got me noticed more, laid more, and more desirable.

It's true, there are exceptions like wealth, but do you ACTUALLY think that rich fat, ugly **** can satisfy his LTR in bed? No. Sure, you can bang hotties if you spin the wheel enough as someone that doesn't have very masculine physical characteristics, but you can only bang them when their self-esteem is down (due to breakups, mental illness, poverty, w/e). However, you can never have a satisfying relationship with them. There will always be a discord that results from the looks discrepancy.

That's just luck. It's happened to me before. One time I was 16, went for a girl who was a dime+, and we ended up dating! It was pure luck because I had nothing of note going for me (no Benz, riches, Denzel looks, 6-pack, pimped out ride, fame, etc.) Maybe I should go to Vegas! But all jokes aside, she cheated on me. Looks discrepancy is reality, and reality wins. If the girl is more attractive than the guy, the deck is stacked in the girl's favor. Wealth and status can be a safety net for the unattractive person, the guy in this case.

6 mos of reading PUA material is good for the virgin trying to get laid for once, but after that, your time is better spent working out. You don't have to play the numbers game nearly as much if you have a hard, fit body and good style.

This should go in the DJ Bible.

Read betw-Can't argue with the facts.

Most PUA stuff is the same material, just reworded and repackaged and redecorated and re-(Insert random synonyms) and sold under the false hope that a broke, fat, balding, ugly person can get laid consistently. This false hope gets desperate men to shell out money. The Seminars, the audio books, the DVD's, the videos, the e-books, etc., and they get paid to tell you that looks don't matter. Pretty good scam, But this stuff can be downloaded via torrent files for free.

Case closed.

 

[blueline]

A lot of this crap he's made up on his own. He's very unique with women.

He can seduce them in front of their boyfriends simply by making sexual references. Maybe it's wasn't even intentional. There was this one time he was trying to pull apart some hamburger patties with this fork and he kept running the fork between the patties. Eventually, he just looked at my friend's GF and was like "it's kinda like ****ing." She just kinda looked at him, maybe shuddered a bit. It wasn't at all negative on her side. Another good trick he does is lift up his shirt 'unintentionally' to reveal his abs.

I had the best sex with my ex girlfriend whenever we stayed the night at his house after him and his gf at the time had been hanging out all night with us. Gee, I wonder why? Could it be that she was so turned on by him that she used me as a release?

In fact, the way he interacted with her was so ****in' weird. He was always getting into conversations about love with her and one time he asked her if she'd ever been in love in front of me and she was so reluctant to answer that question. Eventually, he pressed it on her a couple more times and she said "yes" without even acknowledging my presence. Then, when he was gone, she was like "Of course I love you, blueline. He just put me on the spot and I hate that." Of course, 3 weeks after we break up, she bumps into him on campus and straight up tells him "You know, blueline and I broke up, right?" How forward of her, haha. Of course he knew, he's my best friend. They'll hook up sometime in the next 8 months, it's guaranteed. I don't really care, I know how compatible they are.

I've seen him unintentionally steal the attention of so many guys' girlfriends. Women are just drawn to him. He also has this bizarre option of being able to game women long term simply through text messaging. On top of that, every now and then he will get straight up called by random girls that he exchanged numbers with months ago and has not talked to since then. They'll remember him as "crazy awesome guy" or something. He's simply using many of the routines you guys use sometimes, and look at how that goes for him. When you have the looks foundation, only then can you really start to tweak a 7+ (<119lbs, 5'7", perfect ass, pretty face, intelligent, etc) quality woman's psyche. Otherwise, the door was never even opened in the first place. I remember mentioning his name around my ex would cause an emotional reaction, like an emotional soft-spot in her.

I can't wait until he releases a product.

 

[blueline]

Yeah, I really do feel like me landing my ex gf for 4 months was just luck and she would've cheated on me eventually. I could never make her orgasm even when my penis is really ****ing thick (6.5 inch girth) and it seemed as if she didn't even want me to. She claimed she never had an orgasm through sex, but then blam, one time I'm ****ing her really hard and fast and she totally says "I'm about to have an orgasm, keep that up." It was ****ing tiring me out, not even fun. How would she even know if that hadn't happened to her before. She could supposedly only have orgasms on top when she was grinding her **** against my penis base.

Anyways, my rhythm is probably fucked up (it is in terms of music, haha) and really just boils down to a lack of coordination. These are things you cannot fix simply by reading a book.

As for banging the 7+ as a 5 or whatever, they're few and far between. Sure, maybe you'll **** her, but your relationship with her is gonna be BAD. Whereas with a more equal partner looks wise, she might actually be a total sweetheart and firecracker in bed.

 

[Alchemystic]

You don't get it do you?

We have evolve into an attractor instead of being a seducer because if you are a Natural Attractor then having sex with girls is much easier than constantly seducing them. Geez!


You are outdated!

We are not doing pick - ups anymore.
(Okay maybe some other guys do).

I repeat, we are not doing pick - ups anymore!

We have progressed to the point wherein we make women pick - us up.
The development of ourselves both inner and outer game has reached to a point that picking - up no longer matters.


"It is like a Pikachu evolving into a Rightchu". (<-- spelling)
The seducer is still a Pikachu. (Quick, quick metaphor alert)

 

[Pandora]

Yeh never underestimate the power of looks. The better looking you are the more you can get away with. Your vices become virtues. Period. All you need is the basics. Its delusional for men to think that looks don't matter. They matter, alot. Yes once in a while an average or ugly guy can get a hot chick. This is just luck and not easily reproduced.
Most of the super good looking guys get alot of female attention that average guys will never be able to relate too. All a very good looking guy, needs is to be is socially well adjusted, and have a tiny bit of "game". I was friends with a guy like the guy the OP is talking about. The girls he consistently dated were consistently hot. This guy had no real game he was just a socially well adjusted dude. That's all he needed.
Women are often just as superficial as men, when it comes to looks. Many times they are even less forgiving. Dont you notice how easy dating is when a girl for some reason thinks you are hot. Its a walk in the park, because most of the work is done for you. Remember women choose you. You rarely ever create attraction. It has to be already there.

 

[Sh0t]

Interesting OP.

I've been around the seduction community since the soc.singles days, when I was in high school, mid-late 90s.

In my truthful yet cynical view, the main reason for the negativity is realism. Looks do matter, money does matter, yada yada. All that positive reinforcement sounded nice, but as participants have aged and become experienced, they have realized things aren't quite that simple, nor easy.

They are just road blocks, you can have whatever life you work towards usually, but they can be significant speed bumps for those who lack greatly in some areas.

Also, the community has expanded and most of the guys who find these nocks are not exactly lady-killers. The community promises hope to the hopeless and then eventually that becomes understood.

Edit to add more:

Somebody above mentioned drugs. Sad but true, but if you are hooked up into drugs, especially coke, the amount of women that will beat a path to your door will make you go live in a monastery.

 

[Twitch]

To the OP:

Was what you were doing before working? If yes then that is great why would you change? If no then obviously it doesn't work for you, and you need to explore other avenues.

Bottom line is that it doesn't matter what "the seduction community" is doing. Are you doing something that is working for you(are you getting what you want)? Don't be concerned with the actions of others(who cares if people are negative, let them). It is a 3 pound universe.