why dont mothers teach their sons 'game'?

[Mike32ct]

To make a long story short, if she doesn't think in terms of game and / or doesn't believe in it, why would she teach it?

It's either...

1. My son is quite the handsome little ladies man. Or...

2. He's kinda shy with girls, but he'll grow out out of it and meet the right one someday.

There isn't a third category such as "I'm helping my son become more confident around girls."

 

[BlackEricNorthman]

MuscleMan hit it right on the head. My dad passed away several years ago. I remember him always being a very charismatic laid-back happy father, who's only real problem was being frustrated by my coddled a$$. We were very close when I was a child, but around the early teens I hit several years of major depression. I remember going to my mom mostly around this time, and my dad was there whenever I screwed up at school or my grades got bad. It felt like they were on a Good Cop Bad Cop dynamic with me.

He got really sick in my late teens which caused us to reconnect, but it was stronger now because we waded through all the bullsh1t and had dialogue that neither one of us knew how to start when I was younger. Eventually after my dad died my mom told me that she didn't really know what to say to me during my dark times as a teen, and that my dad was trying in his own way to teach me to tough it out when it came girls, school, and self-esteem but she stopped him because she thought I was too fragile for his advice . After his death she said that was a huge mistake on her advice because in her words "All boys need a male role model in their lives. Women are not equipped to teach boys to be men". She couldn't teach me "game", she doesn't even know what the tools are and if she did she wouldn't be able to apply them. It's unnatural.

I love her to death but she really screwed up stopping my dad from helping me as a confused kid. I think many women either project the image of a man they always wanted onto their sons, or emasculate/demonize the fathers and create a confused and ill-prepared mannish boy who's fighting against his more masculine desire.

 

[evan12]

only men can teach men to be real men
the attraction is some thing happen in non logical way to woman , a lot of women(if not all ) want dominant man , but they rarely admit that even for their friends , while it is very main point in attraction even on animals levels because dominant male can get resources

 

[backbreaker]

only men can teach men to be real men
the attraction is some thing happen in non logical way to woman , a lot of women(if not all ) want dominant man , but they rarely admit that even for their friends , while it is very main point in attraction even on animals levels because dominant male can get resources

this post gave me a good laugh

you know how idiotic it would be if a girl tried to ask a man how to be a girl? has anyone ever seen anything remotely close to that?

women seem to know that men can't teach you to be a woman, yet men run to women to learn how to be men.

 

[bluenorther]

The OP goes back to those shopping lists women all wear on their sleaves-- the "10% Optional Cr@p" you read about at Ladder Theory. When a woman *says* she wants a man with __ and __ and __, what she really means is, She wants the man she IS ATTRACTED TO to have __ and etc. The ATTRACTION comes first, it's what makes him Mr Perfect. The optional cr@p is only the icing on a perfect cake.
So when our moms told us to be AFC chodes, what they really expected was that girls would find us attractive FIRST, enough that being AFCs just makes us more endearing.

 

[Burroughs]

The OP goes back to those shopping lists women all wear on their sleaves-- the "10% Optional Cr@p" you read about at Ladder Theory. When a woman *says* she wants a man with __ and __ and __, what she really means is, She wants the man she IS ATTRACTED TO to have __ and etc. The ATTRACTION comes first, it's what makes him Mr Perfect. The optional cr@p is only the icing on a perfect cake.
So when our moms told us to be AFC chodes, what they really expected was that girls would find us attractive FIRST, enough that being AFCs just makes us more endearing.

true....the problem here is that modern women are a cross between crack addicts and the fvcking BORG when it comes to attraction.

..more..more.

..more its never enough

...hb 5 fuglies want robert pattinson to hit them up on pof :crackup: or else they are not interested...and a whole gaggle of other hb 5 biyaches feel the same way so hb 7-8 dudes are left apoplectic ...hb8 dudes want hb 7 chicks...but 7 chicks they really, really deserve hb 10 dudes....and won't 'settle' in their mind for dudes at their level.

...which is why game has taken a very angry tone in the last few years....hb 7-8 guys making 100-200K are sick of dealing with borderline hb7 chicks who make 30K but somehow think they deserve wealthy trust fund dudes who star in movies....

what mother or woman for that matter could possibly understand this dynamic...women see no reason a dude with a six pack, porsche, and 300K shouldn't like an hb6 fugly fatty...because 'men should like what a girl has on the inside'....while women are free to be hypocrites....all women even your moms will stand up for 'womankind' before she stands up for any men in her life including husbands and sons...never forget this.

 

[Burroughs]

The OP goes back to those shopping lists women all wear on their sleaves-- the "10% Optional Cr@p" you read about at Ladder Theory. When a woman *says* she wants a man with __ and __ and __, what she really means is, She wants the man she IS ATTRACTED TO to have __ and etc. The ATTRACTION comes first, it's what makes him Mr Perfect. The optional cr@p is only the icing on a perfect cake.
So when our moms told us to be AFC chodes, what they really expected was that girls would find us attractive FIRST, enough that being AFCs just makes us more endearing.

true....the problem here is that modern women are a cross between crack addicts and the fvcking BORG when it comes to attraction.

..more..more.

..more its never enough

...hb 5 fuglies want robert pattinson to hit them up on pof :crackup: or else they are not interested...and a whole gaggle of other hb 5 biyaches feel the same way so hb 7-8 dudes are left apoplectic ...hb8 dudes want hb 7 chicks...but 7 chicks they really, really deserve hb 10 dudes....and won't 'settle' in their mind for dudes at their level.

...which is why game has taken a very angry tone in the last few years....hb 7-8 guys making 100-200K are sick of dealing with borderline hb7 chicks who make 30K but somehow think they deserve wealthy trust fund dudes who star in movies....

what mother or woman for that matter could possibly understand this dynamic...women see no reason a dude with a six pack, porsche, and 300K shouldn't like an hb6 fugly fatty...because 'men should like what a girl has on the inside'....while women are free to be hypocrites....all women even your moms will stand up for 'womankind' before she stands up for any men in her life including husbands and sons...never forget this.

 

[betheman]

Im going to go against the grain here but I cannot accept that women do not know game, in some form, at least they know what is attractive to women and what is not.
I work with a lot of women, I hear their discussion, they know who is attractive to who and why and of course the consensus is that they all get juicy for the bad boy..all!
you cannot tell me that women, mothers/sisters, do not look at their sons/Brothers and have an idea that he is either being attractive to women or not, that he can improve his chances with even a few tweaks? what concerns me is why not? why dont they?

 

[Mike32ct]

I'm not saying women don't KNOW game. Consciously or unconsciously, they probably do have this knowledge. I just don't think they spend much time thinking about it, and they are not MOTIVATED to share it.

The most they might do is offer to take the guy shopping for new clothes, but its a selfish motive because she likes shopping anyway.

But to actually teach a guy about attitudes, mannerisms, body language, not giving a F, physical escalation, etc., I rarely see that happen.

To be fair, we might never know exactly WHY women rarely if ever help guys in this area. I'll admit that I'm speculating because I'm not a woman.

Again, if I put on my Cynic32ct hat, my only guess is that she believes that men are naturally the attractive type or they aren't. Despite knowing the game on some level, I don't think most women believe a guy could significantly improve his attractiveness.

I work with women and see how easily they write men off. You are considered part of the "IN" or "ATTRACTIVE" clique or you aren't. High school never ends fellas. She is not motivated to give you remedial classes so you can suddenly qualify for membership in their clique.

 

[zekko]

They don't play pickup guru and try to figure out why a guy is good with women and try to reverse engineer attractiveness. It's not important to them.

I think you're probably right about this. They will try to engineer how a woman attracts a man, but it doesn't go much further than cute outfit, the right makeup, smile, flirt, and laugh at a guy's jokes. That's all they need, really.

But I don't think they try to reverse engineer why they are attracted to a guy. Although certain things are obvious and don't requrie any analysis. They know when a guy isn't living up to being a man. Men have more expectations on them than women do, behavior-wise at least.

 

[Burroughs]

women will never have any concept of the COME UP

the man who is honestly trying to make something of himself…the struggling entrepreneur comes to mind.

notice you will never see MIT or nerdy Harvard students with groupies....case in point: mark zuckerberg trusts his wife cause she's been with him long term but she looks like something found on the bottom of a shoe..I bet a lot of blonde german/swedish type biyaches he hit on in cambridge back in the day were like 'eww gross dorky jew boy go away!' before being gangbanged by the crew team later. if the CASH OR LOOKS ARE not already there women don't believe in it.

women don't think men can ever improve at anything because WOMEN THEMSELVES ARE ALWAYS STUCK IN IMMATURE 14 YEAR OLD LAND…and the hottest women care the least…they are used to being catered to 24/7 if you don't have it now you will never have it according to them.

thats why its important as men to think long term and make the haters eat piles of sh!t once you make it

 

[mrRuckus]

Who cares?

 

[Stagger Lee]

I'm not saying women don't KNOW game. Consciously or unconsciously, they probably do have this knowledge. I just don't think they spend much time thinking about it, and they are not MOTIVATED to share it.

The most they might do is offer to take the guy shopping for new clothes, but its a selfish motive because she likes shopping anyway.

But to actually teach a guy about attitudes, mannerisms, body language, not giving a F, physical escalation, etc., I rarely see that happen.

To be fair, we might never know exactly WHY women rarely if ever help guys in this area. I'll admit that I'm speculating because I'm not a woman.

Again, if I put on my Cynic32ct hat, my only guess is that she believes that men are naturally the attractive type or they aren't. Despite knowing the game on some level, I don't think most women believe a guy could significantly improve his attractiveness.

I work with women and see how easily they write men off. You are considered part of the "IN" or "ATTRACTIVE" clique or you aren't. High school never ends fellas. She is not motivated to give you remedial classes so you can suddenly qualify for membership in their clique.

I agree. And what is game really anyway? There really isn't such thing as game especially as far as women are concerned. If attraction is mostly having a good appearance, and I believe it is, then if you don't have a good appearance, verbal trick are mostly invalid anyway. Your sister might be able to suggest a hairstyle or clothing style maybe. But she's not going to be able to or even know to fix your looks, body language, being outgoing etc., the things that really matter.

You basically need only attraction and to make moves without over-validating the girl. You don't need xyz, tactic this or that, bad boy persona etc. That's based upon the belief that attraction is caused by words or some tactic. But if attraction is really caused by appearance and visual clues, then without it nothing you else you do is going to make a difference.

 

[Mike32ct]

I agree. And what is game really anyway?

Great question. I'll get to that at the end.

There really isn't such thing as game especially as far as women are concerned.

Agreed. When I was a complete AFC and PUA worshipper, I told this HB9 female friend about the TV show "The P i ck up Ar ti st." I told her about this guy named M y st ery who had awesome "game" and hooks up with all these models. After going on and on about "game", she asks me ONE QUESTION. "Is he REALLY good looking?" My jaw dropped. That is the type of "game" women believe in .

If attraction is mostly having a good appearance, and I believe it is, then if you don't have a good appearance, verbal trick are mostly invalid anyway.

Correct. "It's not so much WHAT is said. It's WHO says it."

Your sister might be able to suggest a hairstyle or clothing style maybe. But she's not going to be able to or even know to fix your looks, body language, being outgoing etc., the things that really matter.

Correct.

You basically need only attraction and to make moves without over-validating the girl. You don't need xyz, tactic this or that, bad boy persona etc. That's based upon the belief that attraction is caused by words or some tactic. But if attraction is really caused by appearance and visual clues, then without it nothing you else you do is going to make a difference.

That is pretty much the game in bold. Find a chick attracted to you. Don't OVERVALIDATE her, and make a move.

Actually, I would say that the most important thing is to really know on a gut level when a woman is feeling attraction and when she isn't. This takes some experience, but it's very important. Once you know this, you can save a lot of time and BS by weeding out low IL women.

Experienced guys know what I'm talking about. You see this sort of "look" or "expression" on her face that screams (non-verbally) "Make out with me NOW." At more advanced levels, there is a similar look and body language that screams (non-verbally) "Yes I will leave with you. Just say the word. I don't care if you offer to show me your fish tank at home. Just say it. I'm DTF."

Anyway, back to the original question... What is game? I think game is a way of managing attraction that is ALREADY THERE. If she is already attracted to your looks and "look", good game can maintain and even increase that attraction. Bad game can lower or even destroy that attraction.

The difference is, the more initial attraction she feels, the more forgiving she will be of bad game.

 

[zekko]

I think game is aimed mainly at guys whose main problem with women is that they can't get out of their own way. They would be attractive to women but they don't believe in themselves enough to iniate, flirt, or escalate. Or they're so insecure they get clingy or desperate when they really don't need to be. I guess that a big part of the value of "confidence". Confidence lets you do what you want to do without second guessing yourself, hesitating, or procrastinating.

You basically need only attraction and to make moves without over-validating the girl. You don't need xyz, tactic this or that, bad boy persona etc. That's based upon the belief that attraction is caused by words or some tactic.

Quoted for truth.

I told this HB9 female friend about the TV show "The P i ck up Ar ti st." I told her about this guy named M y st ery who had awesome "game" and hooks up with all these models. After going on and on about "game", she asks me ONE QUESTION. "Is he REALLY good looking?" My jaw dropped. That is the type of "game" women believe in

Mystery was a very tall dude.
And the idea behind that show was to select the "next great pickup artist". It seemed to me that they tried to pick a good looking guy for this. If looks were really meaningless, why not go with one of the dorkier looking guys?

I do think that there is more than just looks to attraction, especially when it comes to men. Men don't have to be the hottest looking guy in the room to have value. But obviously there is a lot more weight to looks than PUA gurus would have you believe. It's funny that when someone talks about the importance of looks on the RSD forum, they are roundly ridiculed. Because that's not part of the RSD party line. They've got them boys over there thoroughly brainwashed.

 

[betheman]

I think my original question is a bit misleading, when I say 'teach their sons game' I dont mean, sit them down with the book of pook and take them through it step by step.
Ive seen so many women preach the nice guy line and yet be attracted to a$$holes (words v actions!) I still maintain women know WHAT ATTRACTS AND WHAT DOESNT, so why dont they impart this knowledge to their very own flesh and blood?
women will warn their sons about the bad girls, Ive seen this, they will want them to get the good girls and yet both the good girls and the bad girls are pretty much hardwired to be juiced up by the same things.
my own personal belief is that mothers, see their sons as extensions of themselves, 'he has to be a nice guy so I can be proud of him' and yet, this is often counter productive , thats my opinion as I see it

 

[zekko]

Ive seen so many women preach the nice guy line and yet be attracted to a$$holes (words v actions!) I still maintain women know WHAT ATTRACTS AND WHAT DOESNT, so why dont they impart this knowledge to their very own flesh and blood?

I think evan12 and backbreaker hit on it. Women don't know how to be men, so they can't teach it. Being a man is something wholly outside of their experience. Men get the weight of the world put on their shoulder and aren't supposed to complain. Women can't relate to that.

Also, anyone who is familiar with me knows I disagree with the notion that women want @ssholes. Women want men. Some trashy, and immature, girls want @ssholes.

 

[betheman]

I think evan12 and backbreaker hit on it. Women don't know how to be men, so they can't teach it. Being a man is something wholly outside of their experience. Men get the weight of the world put on their shoulder and aren't supposed to complain. Women can't relate to that.

Also, anyone who is familiar with me knows I disagree with the notion that women want @ssholes. Women want men. Some trashy, and immature, girls want @ssholes.

again, im not suggesting women teach game, but, there are pitfalls they could help sons avoid, yes its a void men should fill, fathers etc, however they are now few and far between as more and more men become pu$$ywhipped, there are basics thoug that women fail on, cut out the nice guy $hit, stop being clingy, stop calling her etc etc,, women know this sh!t.

I agree women want men, strong men, they are in short supply and confuse them with the ersatz version..aka the a$$hole. so why dont they point their sons in that direction?

 

[Stagger Lee]

again, im not suggesting women teach game, but, there are pitfalls they could help sons avoid, yes its a void men should fill, fathers etc, however they are now few and far between as more and more men become pu$$ywhipped, there are basics thoug that women fail on, cut out the nice guy $hit, stop being clingy, stop calling her etc etc,, women know this sh!t.

I agree women want men, strong men, they are in short supply and confuse them with the ersatz version..aka the a$$hole. so why dont they point their sons in that direction?

I do see your point but I'd argue most women once they have a child do not push the "nice guy" agenda on their own son. They generally begin to hold the realistic position that most women are piss poor entitled brats and not good enough for their son. The mother generally believes that women should just like her son and treat him like a king.

They just have no actionable advice, because they don't know what their son should do. Their advice would probably be "the girl's not responding well and you deserve better". The mother truely believes that there is a quality woman that will like her son just the way he is. She doesn't want her son to sleep with a lot of women. She just wants him to get married to a "great" woman and have kids.

 

[betheman]

I do see your point but I'd argue most women once they have a child do not push the "nice guy" agenda on their own son. They generally begin to hold the realistic position that most women are piss poor entitled brats and not good enough for their son. The mother generally believes that women should just like her son and treat him like a king.

They just have no actionable advice, because they don't know what their son should do. Their advice would probably be "the girl's not responding well and you deserve better". The mother truely believes that there is a quality woman that will like her son just the way he is. She doesn't want her son to sleep with a lot of women. She just wants him to get married to a "great" woman and have kids.

yeah, I can see a lot of real life in your post, which suggests to me that sosn are extensions of wmens and THEIR value or at least , perceived value..."he is my son how dare you not find him attractive as he is????"