Why do you do what you do?

[AllAmericanGuy]

I'm only 18 and I've thought about this for years. I played sports in high school, always made A's, got a scholarship to college... Currently I'm attending university with a full ride (actually making money off of attending), I have a great job and a great business that is growing, I still stay in great shape, I’m socking away lots of money for a home/investing/my future yet what is it all for? There is an emptiness. You are onto something bro. Something missing, something doesn't add up, something does not make sense. I often find myself looking at my peers who are so wrapped up in their lives, in their trivial affairs, in their interpersonal drama that is so fleeting… Everyone and everything lacks any real substance, something that lasts, something that is solid, that sticks, something that is forever—where is it?

**I do not want to debate with anyone, I’m just offering a viewpoint.**
I believe that all of what everyone, especially squirrels, has been saying, is true. The life that everyone lives lacks any real meaning. As he pointed out, even the Roman emperors passed away. If great men like that are forgotten and reduced to nothing but names in history books what hope is there for us men left living? One of the foundational Judaic principles is that man was created for one thing and one thing alone: relationship. Relationship with Almighty God most importantly, and that got messed up. If you think about it, it makes a lot of sense. No matter how successful you become, no matter how many accolades you collect, no matter how much fun you have, that day when you are on your deathbed you are not going to want your diploma, or your bank account statement, or any of that, you are going to want the people you genuinely love close to you. Relationships are what matter. Relationships are what are eternal. Things don’t matter. People matter.

In Hebrew texts it even discusses this, how God has set eternity in the hearts of all men. Read Ecclesiastes. I urge everyone to read the book of Ecclesiastes written by King Solomon, even if you are not a Christian, a Jew, or have any interest in the such. It is good stuff. The topic of this thread is addressed in explicit detail…. This is from the first chapter….

“What does man gain from all his labor
at which he toils under the sun?

Generations come and generations go,
but the earth remains forever.

The sun rises and the sun sets,
and hurries back to where it rises.

The wind blows to the south
and turns to the north;
round and round it goes,
ever returning on its course.

All streams flow into the sea,
yet the sea is never full.
To the place the streams come from,
there they return again.

All things are wearisome,
more than one can say.
The eye never has enough of seeing,
nor the ear its fill of hearing.

What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun.

Is there anything of which one can say,
"Look! This is something new"?
It was here already, long ago;
it was here before our time.

There is no remembrance of men of old,
and even those who are yet to come
will not be remembered
by those who follow.”

I think deep down inside of all of us we know that there is more than just this life.....

Solomon goes on to say, which I love and can identify with, “For with much wisdom comes much sorrow; the more knowledge, the more grief.”

Sound familiar bro? Hope this helps, if you str8 up want to read it online just go here http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=25&chapter=1&version=31

Brilliant men throughout all of history have been struggling with this same issue my friend, do not be discouraged.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

- hedonism - you must move from avoiding pain to maximizing pleasure / satisfaction

- nietzschean will to power - if you are greater than all the rest, when you realize this you will embrace your destiny and speak with greatness.

- rand's objectivism - if embrace your humanity if you recognize that you are heroic, your own happiness is your only moral beacon, and productive achievement should be your goal.
...

I'll have a #3 with some hedonism for dessert.

 

[blueguy]

That's just it...to achieve a goal, you need some kind of motivation. The loftier the goal, the more motivation is necessary.

There are lots of things in life I'd "like" to do, but that casual motivation, the "dabbling" attitude where something isn't "must-do" but more "let's-try-this" has never been enough to allow me to set and maintain lofty goals.

It seems like a major waste of time to set lofty goals when you can't really come up with a good motivation for setting and maintaining those goals. That's where I find myself all too often. Asking, "What's the point? Why am I trying to better myself? I'm already almost 30 years old...what are my accomplishments going to be good for when I'm dead and gone?"

I sometimes find others' expectations and approval/disapproval to be powerful motivators, but without those people's constant presence, that motivation falls away. I start to realize that I'm doing things not because I want them, but because someone else wants them and I feel inferior if I do not follow suit.

I'd "like" to succeed. I don't "need" to succeed. That kind of motivation is powerful enough to take the same steps that "normal" people do, but it isn't enough to propel me to be "extraordinary".

So what if I build an extraordinary physique. I'm not going to be a prizefighter, I'm not going to be some kind of supersoldier. Why am I bothering to build muscles that I'll never use for anything worthwhile?

So what if I can become a chick-magnet? Most of these chicks come and go. All I'm doing is providing temporary relief for my ego. I'll likely end up with one of them anyway and even if I don't what does it really matter? Why build those girl skills?

So what if I become wealthy, if I can sit out on my yacht and be brought drinks by my monkey-butlers...the experience is inevitably short-lived. I grow old and die like anyone. What's the point in amassing all this wealth I can't take with me, having experiences that necessarily end, putting in blood, sweat, and tears to build a fortune and then wishing I had back all the time I spent acquiring it so I could make use of it?

Essentially, if you're going to die anyway, what's the point of living? Isn't it just p!ssing into the wind? As Shakespeare says, "a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing"?

I don't understand what joy people find in life. Even when I put my mind to doing something, when I finally accomplish it, the feeling is always less than I expect, and it's always over way too quickly and seems trivial in the scope of the rest of the world and the universe. People who are motivated to accomplish things always seem to be chasing shallow and trivial things, no matter how noble or great they or those around them see them to be.

THAT'S what I'm getting at. I feel like achievement in general is just a friggin joke sometimes. People make things out to be big deals, things I do or accomplish...to me it's just living life, and I feel like the fact that they make it out to be a big deal is just indicative of just how ignorant they are, how much emphasis they place on trivial things. EVERYTHING is trivial.

It's a very nihilistic attitude, but what REALLY makes an experience or achievement valuable? What makes it WORTH pursuing? THAT'S what I don't understand. I often feed off of the motivation of others, but when it comes to ME, sitting by myself, everything just seems so pointless.

Nature's way of preventing depression and making humans want to survive is through rewards: sex, food, exhilaration (through companionship, friendship, etc.), etc. All these chemicals that we live for each and every day released through varying means.

Why do I work out? It makes me feel GOOD. There is pain first, but then I feel a rush of good chemicals running through my body. My day is better.

Why do I accomplish things? Because every once in awhile, I get a quiver up and down my spine. Or because people take notice and pay attention or maybe even I get a chick who wants to be intimate. Makes me feel GOOD.

You don't want to be a chick magnet? Hell, I LIVE for wanting to have better sex. Makes me feel awesome!

You are depressed.

There is a difference between people who kill themselves and thrivers.

There have been people in history who decided they'd rather EAT HUMAN FLESH before letting their lives go. There have been people who have been immobilized in agonizing pain for DAYS before giving up. People WANT to live to experience new things.

If you are not feeling a rush of exhilaration throughout your day or don't have any goals to achieve that, that is the very source of your problem. You're asking why. Stop asking why. Just do it. Who cares if you die tomorrow. Who cares if nobody gives a sh@t about you once you die. Feels good now doesn't it?

Maybe you should go to Brazil, bang 100 different chicks, come back, then ask yourself why you asked this question in the first place?

 

[joekerr31]

i dont think hes depressed at all.

he's apathetic as a result of cognitive dissonance.

the cognitive dissonance being:

1) I am alive (hence i matter, if only to me)
2) being alive has no (objective) value (ie. it really doesn't matter to anything or anyone ultimately whether i ever existed or not)

how can both these things be true is what his mind is trying to figure out.

this is why in today's society people dont bother with the harder issues of life, and when they do its called depression.

man was designed for the simple life. but unfortunately today life is not simple. its complex. mostly because of how geopolitical and socio economical factors are shaping the world, as well as the increased level of education.

most peopel are working white collar jobs, and blue colors are typically servicing white color needs.

the days of raising horses, farming, being a warrior, etc. are mostly over.
we're all bean counters now a days (damn straight thats depressing!)

I can't think of a better fate for a man than to get up, eat a healthy breakfast, break his back all day doing laborous work, watch the sun set, eat dinner and bang his hot wife. that is nirvana.

the world today though is an afc world. we all sit at computers nad type away on our little keyboards - clickity clack clickity clack clickity clack.

there are no great adventures left. no great discoveries left.

in many ways we have outgrown this world.

we are too comfortable. there are no meaningful challenges left, no new lands to discover.

personally i think the world is in a state of global psychological depression. and i think the major reason is that theres nothing left to do other than metaphorically jerk off with the rest of our time.

i mean, we've filled every continent with people. we've conquored travel, food production, etc.

the challenges left to us today are sooo freakin boring that they just don't get the blood pumping.

and there are no great men left. in the past there were kings who men lived and died for (and even if we now know they weren't always that great, at the time the men believed them so, which gave them hope).

anyway, life has become to easy and too boring and as a result it is rapidly losing its value.

so all you can do is try to enjoy it as much as you can until someone drops the bomb or an asteroid hits us and things turn in to mad max type of sh*t. Then you can be a warrior in your dune buggy, picking up chics in the wasteland and banging their brains out.

i also think so many 'heroes' that we do know of have just turned in to lack luster humans. Think of arnold - he was damn cool in conan and stuff - now he's just a racist, cigar smoking old man whose enjoy his last few good years playing politician.

anyway, when you look at the world of today laid bare, sure, its better than ever in terms of living standards, but its void of purpose moreso than ever before. we do not live in an era of great ideas, but rather an era of politics and economics.

even the internet has gotten boring if you ask me.

 

[blueguy]

I think Vypros and jokkerr and Vulpine had some nice posts, but this is a reocurring issue in this thread:

As he pointed out, even the Roman emperors passed away. If great men like that are forgotten and reduced to nothing but names in history books what hope is there for us men left living?

“What does man gain from all his labor
at which he toils under the sun?

Generations come and generations go,
but the earth remains forever.

The sun rises and the sun sets,
and hurries back to where it rises.

The wind blows to the south
and turns to the north;
round and round it goes,
ever returning on its course.

All streams flow into the sea,
yet the sea is never full.
To the place the streams come from,
there they return again.

All things are wearisome,
more than one can say.
The eye never has enough of seeing,
nor the ear its fill of hearing.

What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun.

Is there anything of which one can say,
"Look! This is something new"?
It was here already, long ago;
it was here before our time.

There is no remembrance of men of old,
and even those who are yet to come
will not be remembered
by those who follow.”

The issue of thinking that being forgotton has anything to do with making a life full of points pointless. It doesn't.

 

[Drum&Bass]

Why all the hostility? That's what happens when I pose the question to most people...they become hostile. What is it that's making you uncomfortable?

Because every time someone in my life tells me:

you'll never make it
Maybe you should try for something else

I have a choice, I can prove them right or I can be true to myself and persistent until I succeed.

When a guy like you comes along and starts asking whats the point of having motivation or achieving anything, your basically spitting in my face and repeating the people who don't believe in me.

The 2nd reason
It's a waste of living to not have the strength(motivation) to find you're passion in life.

To imagine some "purpose" for yourself and then act as though that purpose is somehow "important" and not just a delusion to justify you living a life that will eventually end and be for naught anyway

YOU FOOL !!!! A purpose isn't imagined..A purpose is genuine,for some reason you keep coming up with ways to keep talking about NOTHING !!

what is the point of asking the infinite question of "WHY" ??? Its as STUPID AS ASKING WHY IS WATER WET ??? who cares why ???? I know for damn sure you don't !!! again..your thread is idiotic at best.

This forum talks about how to get women out one corner of its mouth, and out the other it talks about how women are a waste of time and not worth pursuing. Which is it?

You are either bored and getting a kick out of people responding to your thread or just pathetic...This site IS what you choose to take from it.

To imagine some "purpose" for yourself and then act as though that purpose is somehow "important" and not just a delusion to justify you living a life that will eventually end and be for naught anyway...that's what seems pretentious. "Purpose" just appears to be another kind of ego...another imaginary facet to people's imaginary being. That's what I mean by "purpose is pretentious".

Maybe you should ask, what kind of idiot close to the age of 30 would want to delude themselves ?? Your either happy doing something or your not, you don't make up a purpose and try to fit into it (duh).

there are no great adventures left. no great discoveries left.

in many ways we have outgrown this world.

we are too comfortable. there are no meaningful challenges left, no new lands to discover.

WOW !! this was....dumb..Have you traveled all over the world ?? experienced different cultures ?? applied yourself to discovering new things ??? learned anything of significance ?? you must be another idiot if you think you've seen it all and done it all.

anyway, life has become to easy and too boring and as a result it is rapidly losing its value.

speak for yourself stoopid Your view on life might be more of a reflection of who you are...

OK so you live in an advanced civilization...poor you, just because you can't discover a new island or find someone to follow, that must mean life isn't valuable..seems to me like your looking for some thrills so maybe you should take up rock climbing, or scale a mountain or something..its a big world and unfortunately you have a small mind.

ALSO !

man was designed for the simple life. but unfortunately today life is not simple. its complex. mostly because of how geopolitical and socio economical factors are shaping the world, as well as the increased level of education.

then you say..

anyway, life has become to easy and too boring and as a result it is rapidly losing its value.

 

[squirrels]

YOU FOOL !!!! A purpose isn't imagined..A purpose is genuine

How so? If everything in this thread is true, then a purpose is just something you make up based on how you feel.

Your purpose isn't real anywhere except in your head. How is that "genuine"? You may "genuinely" believe it, but isn't it just something people make up to feel good about themselves?

You're asking why. Stop asking why. Just do it. Who cares if you die tomorrow. Who cares if nobody gives a sh@t about you once you die. Feels good now doesn't it?

This is probably the best advice...it just seems hollow as hell to abandon the search for a greater, objective meaning just to follow one's own petty interests. For some reason, some self-generated sense of "purpose" doesn't seem like enough to elevate interests to the level of "passion". "I like how it feels" has never been enough justification for me to do much of anything. So WHAT if I like it...what's the REAL point?

I feel like I'm wasting time just doing things "because I want to". That always leads to all kinds of mindless pursuits and time-wastes...but then everything seems like a waste of time.


What, just forget about your life meaning anything and do whatever you feel like doing, slap the label "purpose" on it, and carry on?

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Your purpose isn't real anywhere except in your head. How is that "genuine"? You may "genuinely" believe it, but isn't it just something people make up to feel good about themselves?

You are absolutely correct. People who aren't genuine (authentic) will find ways to validate things only on a conceptual level. Authentic people actually solidify their concepts by taking action. That action could easily be their purpose.

 

[Vulpine]

After reading more posts in this thread, a little scene came to mind.

I was sitting with my uncle (dabbles in geneology) in front of his computer as he was foaming on and on about the life of my great, great grandfather on my father's side, Herman, who had came from Germany to the US.

I was like, "Uh... yeah? Uh... hmm. Wow. Cool."

This dude was remembered. This dude, if for only one thing, was noted in history.

And you know what? That guy is important to me. He's dead and gone, I've never met the guy, but he IS remembered. In fact, even the dude's sister who was murdered on the boat over is remembered. She may have been a worthless piece of sh!t alive, but her death is noteworthy, and I celebrate her existance because I know her name.

So, don't be so quick to believe that just because you have a seemingly lackluster life you won't be remembered or celebrated in the future.

Take for instance the seemingly irrelevant occurances in the movie "Back to the Future". The little stuff you are doing now may have huge repercussions later, Biff.

And when you die, your name will live on.

..whether your life sucked or not.

 

[Drum&Bass]

How so? If everything in this thread is true, then a purpose is just something you make up based on how you feel.

BINGO !!!!

Your purpose isn't real anywhere except in your head. How is that "genuine"? You may "genuinely" believe it, but isn't it just something people make up to feel good about themselves?

Here is a definition of the word genuine

Free from hypocrisy or dishonesty; sincere.

Now here is a definition of sincere

not trying to pretend or deceive

This is probably the best advice

Wrong idiot, EVERYONE that has contributed your stupid thread gave BRILLIANT advice and reason..this thread could have ended with Vypros post, but you were NOT smart enough to concede the point
You continued looking for foolish examples
You began asking stupid questions
You went off topic and started talking about more than one subject

EVERYONE in this thread gets it, except for you. We may all be repeating the overall point, but we're giving different perspectives.

 

[d9930380]

Vypros - I've never heard it put like that. Too true.

However....

I think this kind of grand ambition is the reason why people are soo depressed in the west. They all think they're going to be the next big thing in whatever field they choose. Most people don't make it and those that do generally aren't happy people.

The problem with fulfilling ambitions is that once they are realised you feel empty/lost and you realise that in the grand scheme they didn't really matter after all. What really matters is the happiness you find day to day. With friends, family, girlfriends and eventually your children.

I'm not saying not to have ambitions, just don't weight for a future day where you will feel fulfilled. Have balance and enjoy the present!

We are taught by society to be a certain way because it benifits "the powers of be" for us all to be working our asses off making THEM money instead of enjoying ourselves.

 

[Wyldfire]

squirrels...you don't have to find purpose in life...and maybe in the grand scheme of things it really doesn't matter one way of the other. That being said...having purpose sure as hell makes life more worth living while you're here. We're only given so much time to live. A lot of people waste that time they are given by walking around feeling like a victim or wandering aimlessly. One day, they wake up and feel their life has been a waste. Maybe you've reached that point now. If so, you are lucky because you have time to change it. Find purpose for your own enjoyment of the time you have so that when your time to pass along grows nearer you aren't left with regrets.

 

[squirrels]

You continued looking for foolish examples
You began asking stupid questions
You went off topic and started talking about more than one subject

You say in the same post that I was right that "a purpose is just something you make up based on how you feel". Then you turn right around and say that that is somehow genuine, which you further define to be "sincere", which you further define to be "not trying to pretend".

So the idea is to make-believe some purpose for yourself, but you still claim that that's not pretending. It doesn't matter how much you believe something you make up in your head, it doesn't make it "genuine". I can make up in my head some imaginary world with 3-foot gnomes running around...I can believe it's there all I want...it may make me feel great about life, too...maybe even motivate me to do things. But it doesn't make it genuine. It's a delusion. In the same way a 3-year-old sits in a cardboard box and pretends it's a spaceship to make it more interesting to be in there.

Is that how we should be?

With all the advice in this thread, it's a shame that I feel I have to respond to you in particular just because you're a dick.

 

[squirrels]

squirrels...you don't have to find purpose in life...and maybe in the grand scheme of things it really doesn't matter one way of the other. That being said...having purpose sure as hell makes life more worth living while you're here. We're only given so much time to live. A lot of people waste that time they are given by walking around feeling like a victim or wandering aimlessly. One day, they wake up and feel their life has been a waste. Maybe you've reached that point now. If so, you are lucky because you have time to change it. Find purpose for your own enjoyment of the time you have so that when your time to pass along grows nearer you aren't left with regrets.

Maybe that's it...maybe I'm afraid I might define a purpose in my life based on a context that isn't accurate. Like decide that I want something based on what I think and feel right now, and realize 20 or 30 years down the road that it WASN'T what I wanted, that I wanted something ELSE and that now too much time has passed for me to be able to get it.

I mean, people can see my outlook on life is suspect. How can I trust myself to come up with a purpose that will TRULY make me happy and not just something that seems right at the time and leads me to disappointment?

I've done that before...thought I wanted something, then grew up some, realized I was deluded, and had nothing but regret for all the time wasted.

I can't keep fooling myself...I want to "get it right" this time. That's all.

Anyone on this forum ever pick up a girl, take her home, and f*ck the dogsh*t out of her and have a BLAST while doing it, then on your way home just feel like, "Why 'TF did I just do that? I feel lame." That's the feeling I'm trying to avoid. Time is too precious to waste on some delusion of something that can make you happy only to find out it doesn't and there's "something else you should be doing".

That's what I mean by "delusion". Thoughts lie, feelings lie...how do you tell the difference between GENUINE purpose, what REALLY makes you happy, and FALSE purpose before it's too late?

 

[Wyldfire]

squirrels...this is where your core values come into play. Chances are you have spent too much time following goals that others convinced you that you SHOULD want when in reality, you simply don't want those things.

If there is something you enjoy so much that you would do it even if you never got paid for it, then that is the direction you should look to for "purpose". We all have strengths and values and those who find a way to blend both tend to be the most happy in life. Don't listen to what anyone else thinks you should want or do...just do some exploring and sort it out on your own. You don't have to do that right away, either...you can take your time.

 

[joekerr31]

the short answer is that you can't.

tolstoy wrote a book called the Death of Ivan Ilyich. at the end of the book a man lays dying on his death bed after living a full life and wonders 'what if everything i did was wrong? what if i made the wrong choices and didn't live the life i should have lived?"

despite some of the posters on here portraying this delimma as simple, its not.

once you become aware of how nothing you do matters in the great scheme of things, it becomes very difficult to find 'purpose' and 'meaning' in just about anything - because you are aware that any meaning you think is there, is only there because you THINK its there.

hence, if 10 years down the road you suddenly start to think about life differently, well you'll look back and think your past years were a waste of time, you had gone down the wrong road if you will.

luckily most people in this world aren't intelligent enough, nor truth-seekers enough, to truly understand the fatalistic nature of life.

personally i refer back to the stoics myself. they believed that, for the most part, you have little control over what happens to you in life. the only control you really have is how you react to what happens to you. how do you handle failure? how do you handle power and success? etc.

hence, ultimately, the purpose of life was merely to become a better human being. your physical appearance, how much money you had, your status, etc. - all of those things were in the hands of fate mostly. all that is within your control is your ability to be a good human being.

unfortunately we live in a world that rejects fate. everyone is lead to believe they can become anything they want if they put their mind to it. but the truth is that we all have limits imposed on us by nature and circumstance. the only area were we can acheive true freedom is in our response to the world - how we bear both our good and bad fortunes if you will.

nelson mendella spent decades in prison and ultimately this is what he learned - they can imprison you and take away everything you ever owned or could have owned, but the one thing they cant take away from you is your ability to THINK as you wish.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Maybe that's it...maybe I'm afraid I might define a purpose in my life based on a context that isn't accurate. Like decide that I want something based on what I think and feel right now, and realize 20 or 30 years down the road that it WASN'T what I wanted, that I wanted something ELSE and that now too much time has passed for me to be able to get it.

Knowing what you want, paying attention to your feelings and acting upon them will allow you to minimize the chances of this happening.

I mean, people can see my outlook on life is suspect. How can I trust myself to come up with a purpose that will TRULY make me happy and not just something that seems right at the time and leads me to disappointment?

This is what happens when you do things without an authentic purpose.

I've done that before...thought I wanted something, then grew up some, realized I was deluded, and had nothing but regret for all the time wasted.

Were you certain that you wanted it?

I can't keep fooling myself...I want to "get it right" this time. That's all.

Glad to see that you realize that you are playing a game with yourself.

Anyone on this forum ever pick up a girl, take her home, and f*ck the dogsh*t out of her and have a BLAST while doing it, then on your way home just feel like, "Why 'TF did I just do that?

Lack of an authentic purpose. Consider if this type of thing allign with your core values like Wyld said.

That's what I mean by "delusion". Thoughts lie, feelings lie...how do you tell the difference between GENUINE purpose, what REALLY makes you happy, and FALSE purpose before it's too late?

Feelings don't lie however they may be misinterpreted. Here's a question for 'ya; how well do you know yourself?

 

[Drum&Bass]

I'm really sick of all you fucking idiots who think its "intelligent" or a great thing to question what is the significance of purpose.

NO it doesn't take a smart person to reach any stage..Only loser retards on sosuave who are failures and resent themselves think it is elite to question motivation..EVERYONE ELSE focuses on living and they DO NOT WORRY about stupid trivial questions that have no effect on their lives.

If you do something you love and your feelings change over time that does NOT mean you wasted your time..it means your ready to move on to NEW things and find different motivators.

 

[Wyldfire]

I'm really sick of all you fucking idiots who think its "intelligent" or a great thing to question what is the significance of purpose.

NO it doesn't take a smart person to reach any stage..Only loser retards on sosuave who are failures and resent themselves think it is elite to question motivation..EVERYONE ELSE focuses on living and they DO NOT WORRY about stupid trivial questions that have no effect on their lives.

If you do something you love and your feelings change over time that does NOT mean you wasted your time..it means your ready to move on to NEW things and find different motivators.

You need to go masturbate immediately. You're way too tense.

I'm serious...

 

[joekerr31]

I'm really sick of all you fucking idiots who think its "intelligent" or a great thing to question what is the significance of purpose..

ya einstein, neitzsche, and all the philosophers, scientists, kings and presidents, humanists leaders damn you all for being f*cking idiots.