Why do women love douchebags?

[sangheilios]

I think one of the biggest mistakes floating around is the idea that women actually have a preference at all.

I often come up with simple analogies to explain the nature of women (or at least the nature of women as I see it), and when it comes to discussions of nice guy vs. jerk (or any variation of it.... well grounded man vs. douchebag, in this case), I like to use this particular analogy of a solid rock protruding from the sea.

In this analogy, the ocean represents the jerk. It is dynamic in motion. Its turbulence creates the sounds of crashing waves that elicit emotion. It offers the allure of exploration and a mystery as to what might be found out there. It calls for a woman to explore it.

The rock is the well grounded man. Solid. Immovable. Dependable. A safe haven one can cling to for life when necessary.

Sometimes you will come across a woman when she is sitting on the rock. Meditating. Enjoying the comfort of peace and safety that the rock offers. But sooner or later the rock becomes stale and the mystery of the sea will call her to explore it. These are the women who end up cheating on their nice guy boyfriends, wives cheating on husbands and such.

And then sometimes when you come across a woman, she will already be out at sea. She is enjoying the adventure. But sometimes a storm rolls in, those seas get violent, and that sense of adventure turns to fear and self preservation. She begins to panic and seeks out the safety to which that solid rock offers. This is a woman who is dating a douchebag and complains she can't find a nice guy. You may notice a woman will always say this, not when the seas are more manageable and inviting, but at the height of the storm.

Many men would describe themselves as being either the rock or the ocean, and these men will believe they are constantly dealing with two types of women, each of which have a preference.

What few men realize is that the woman on the rock and the woman at sea are one and the same person.

Women need contrast. They need both. And they seek a man who is the perfect embodiment of both: Strong, solid, dependable, immovable, safe, but also provides a sense of adventure, mystery, a little danger and the allure of exploration. And because few men are capable of being both, a woman must often chose one against the other. It is not a preference but a forced choice. Sometimes she will bounce back and forth between the two in order to fulfill and satisfy her need for both qualities.

No woman wants to stay on the rock forever.

No woman wants to stay out at sea forever.

The more a man can be of both worlds, the more he will own any woman who steps into it, the more she will surrender herself to him and the more she will act to preserve what is perceived as so rare.

That's kind of how I view it as well

 

[sangheilios]

You might do better with religious women, they seem to deeply crave guidance. I was reading an @Atom Smasher thread about the importance of judging women, and I was like "wtf is he talking about" but then I remembered his woman is religious and to them it feels familiar, like in childhood.

I have a very difficult time interacting with people like that. I can't really quite put my finger on as to why, but the vibe that I get from such people is one of naivety and of a follower nature. However, despite this I also get the feeling that much of what you are seeing is very fake and hypocritical. I really can't explain what I'm trying to to talk about here, but many of them seem to be people that pretend life is all okie dokie but on the inside they are terrified......not sure if that makes sense.

Edit: I really have a low tolerance for what I perceive as weakness. I feel that people who put such "faith" into their religion act as if they have little control over themselves and their environments and would rather feel that there is some divine power that is in control of everything. I feel there is some merit to religious teachings but I feel that it also comes with many negatives, which I had mentioned previously.

 

[AttackFormation]

I'm not so sure they are forced into it. I think it's the product of being trained to objectify men and therefore incapable of seeing the complexity of the human character. It's like a Madonna/wh0re complex.

Make an account on some dating site for internationals/philippines/etc as I just did for fun on an "international" site and watch as the messages pile up to you, whether they're real or (as I assume) fake... then magnify this by several times and apply it on a recurrent basis to multiple on- and offline platforms. There you have the female experience. When you get a taste of it yourself, you get closer to understanding it.

Like I quote you saying in my signature... unless you've experienced the sensation of abundance you will never understand womens' perspective. You won't understand what shapes their attitudes to men. It's a different reality. Every man should make a fake female profile, or if they aren't a bottom-tier guy themselves they can make a profile on an internationally oriented site... it will help them see the different reality that women live in. Sangheilios doesn't get this which is why he makes this thread projecting his own sense of scarcity to women thinking they "should" go for him (which I also described as a narcissistic thought pattern earlier), but they are overwhelmed with male stimuli.

 

[sangheilios]

Then stop coming across as judgmental and pious lol

I'm not a religious person, I haven't been inside a church since I don't know when.

 

[AttackFormation]

I'm not a religious person, I haven't been inside a church since I don't know when.

The way you zealously bring up your qualities again and again and again and again and act mystified over why women don't fvck you despite you thinking they "should" could come across that way, although I would use different terms. Judgemental might fit, but It strikes me more as narcissistic than pious. It reminds me of Elliot Rodger. The fact you are so into your own notion you probably can't even comprehend what could be flawed with it and will give a response like "well I should be attractive to women because X, Y, Z... so I just dunno lol" only adds to that.

 

[rjc149]

Despite the annals of material being written on this topic, it's always fun to debate and it's really the core of this forum.

It's not the douchiness per se that women are drawn to. It's the confidence, self-assurance, assertiveness, and dominance that a$$holes and jerks typically demonstrate. It's the compliance, submissiveness, willingness to please and fear of disapproval, typically demonstrated by stable 'good guy' men, that women find sexually unappealing and will only tolerate in a beta provider. It's not a strict 'nice guy vs. douchebag' dichotomy, although frequently, most men embody one or the other. Optimally attractive men embody both.

Don't look at it in terms of black and white or caricatures. Think Don Draper, Harvey Specter or Christian Grey-- a charming, high-status alpha male provider who is also emotionally vulnerable, mysterious, and a little dangerous. Women don't wet their panties reading books about big tatted up douchebags booming at the bartender for another round of Fireball and running his mouth at everyone else.

 

[jimmy_scandal]

I never really understood on a basal level why women just didn't go for good men and always opted for the douchebags. When I say good men I don't mean the weak, beta male doormat. I'm instead referring to an upstanding man who is well put together, strong, motivated, is truthful and honest with who he is and his intentions, etc.

On the flip side, I've seen women time and time again go for men that operated on a level that showed they were rather flaky, fickle, indirect, etc.....all traits that actually suggest weakness and a lack of true male character.

Why do women seem to prefer this over the strong man above? Is it because the former man is just not a project to work on? Is it because he is just boring to them and not a challenge? Are women just afraid of strong men with good character? I really don't get it.

These are gross generalizations. Do you have specific personal experiences you can refer to, or are you just regurgitating bitter tropes from the manosphere?

From what I've seen in my neck of the woods, the guys who are most successful (with women) are military guys: they are generally in their 20's and 30's, most are conventionally good looking, and more often, they don't fvck around or even try to. True, many are single, but those who aren't, typically date some of the hottest women I've seen. And the women know these guys are into marriage, so they stick around.

A lot of the middle aged rich guys have hot wives, too. But a ton of them are single (divorced). They spend through the nose, though. It's an occupational hazard.

In my own experience, I'm at a point where I value quality over quantity. What are your priorities? What are your goals? Are you after infinity club skanks? Marriage? "Harem?" lol.

Despite the annals of material being written on this topic, it's always fun to debate and it's really the core of this forum.

It's not the douchiness per se that women are drawn to. It's the confidence, self-assurance, assertiveness, and dominance that a$$holes and jerks typically demonstrate. It's the compliance, submissiveness, willingness to please and fear of disapproval, typically demonstrated by stable 'good guy' men, that women find sexually unappealing and will only tolerate in a beta provider. It's not a strict 'nice guy vs. douchebag' dichotomy, although frequently, most men embody one or the other. Optimally attractive men embody both.

Don't look at it in terms of black and white or caricatures. Think Don Draper, Harvey Specter or Christian Grey-- a charming, high-status alpha male provider who is also emotionally vulnerable, mysterious, and a little dangerous. Women don't wet their panties reading books about big tatted up douchebags booming at the bartender for another round of Fireball and running his mouth at everyone else.

This is all second hand manosphere theory. Pure speculation. What can you report from your own personal experience? That's what I asked the OP as he does the same: theory, but no experience. (btw, I'm not suggesting OP is sexually inexperienced, simply saying that he doesn't refer to his own experiences, whatever they may be).

 

[rjc149]

This is all second hand manosphere theory. Pure speculation. What can you report from your own personal experience? That's what I asked the OP as he does the same: theory, but no experience.

What about it appears to be speculative? Or demonstrates lack of experience? Are you just running your mouth lol?

Manosphere theory and speculation is derived from observed trends in female behavior and their responses, both individually and collectively, to male personality archetypes. I don't need to offer my own personal experience to support the observable female preference for the character traits of high status men.

However, I will offer for the sake of this thread, that as a very young man I've had women leave me for a$$holes (alphas), and later in my adulthood, women have left me for more sensitive, emotional men (betas) because I failed to calibrate myself in the relationship properly. If that offers any of the personal insight you're requesting.

 

[AttackFormation]

trained to objectify men and therefore incapable of seeing the complexity of the human character.

 

[Epic Days]

However, I will offer for the sake of this thread, that as a very young man I've had women leave me for a$$holes (alphas), and later in my adulthood, women have left me for more sensitive, emotional men (betas) because I failed to calibrate myself in the relationship properly. If that offers any of the personal insight you're requesting.

Since when do men calibrate to women? Does this mean you manipulate them by showing something other than yourself? Is your purpose to hang onto women?

 

[Dash Riprock]

I think one of the biggest mistakes floating around is the idea that women actually have a preference at all.

I often come up with simple analogies to explain the nature of women (or at least the nature of women as I see it), and when it comes to discussions of nice guy vs. jerk (or any variation of it.... well grounded man vs. douchebag, in this case), I like to use this particular analogy of a solid rock protruding from the sea.

In this analogy, the ocean represents the jerk. It is dynamic in motion. Its turbulence creates the sounds of crashing waves that elicit emotion. It offers the allure of exploration and a mystery as to what might be found out there. It calls for a woman to explore it.

The rock is the well grounded man. Solid. Immovable. Dependable. A safe haven one can cling to for life when necessary.

Sometimes you will come across a woman when she is sitting on the rock. Meditating. Enjoying the comfort of peace and safety that the rock offers. But sooner or later the rock becomes stale and the mystery of the sea will call her to explore it. These are the women who end up cheating on their nice guy boyfriends, wives cheating on husbands and such.

And then sometimes when you come across a woman, she will already be out at sea. She is enjoying the adventure. But sometimes a storm rolls in, those seas get violent, and that sense of adventure turns to fear and self preservation. She begins to panic and seeks out the safety to which that solid rock offers. This is a woman who is dating a douchebag and complains she can't find a nice guy. You may notice a woman will always say this, not when the seas are more manageable and inviting, but at the height of the storm.

Many men would describe themselves as being either the rock or the ocean, and these men will believe they are constantly dealing with two types of women, each of which have a preference.

What few men realize is that the woman on the rock and the woman at sea are one and the same person.

Women need contrast. They need both. And they seek a man who is the perfect embodiment of both: Strong, solid, dependable, immovable, safe, but also provides a sense of adventure, mystery, a little danger and the allure of exploration. And because few men are capable of being both, a woman must often chose one against the other. It is not a preference but a forced choice. Sometimes she will bounce back and forth between the two in order to fulfill and satisfy her need for both qualities.

No woman wants to stay on the rock forever.

No woman wants to stay out at sea forever.

The more a man can be of both worlds, the more he will own any woman who steps into it, the more she will surrender herself to him and the more she will act to preserve what is perceived as so rare.

What @Amante Silvestre has (very well) expounded upon are #1 and #2 on the Basic Human Needs per Tony Robbins:

THE 6 HUMAN NEEDS ARE:
1. Certainty: assurance you can avoid pain and gain pleasure
2. Uncertainty/Variety: the need for the unknown, change, new stimuli
3. Significance: feeling unique, important, special or needed
4. Connection/Love: a strong feeling of closeness or union with someone or something
5. Growth: an expansion of capacity, capability or understanding
6. Contribution: a sense of service and focus on helping, giving to and supporting others

More here: https://www.tonyrobbins.com/mind-meaning/do-you-need-to-feel-significant/

 

[sangheilios]

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Some of those I'm sure are fake and/or just means to get money out of some desperate and lonely westerner. However, a lot of women in those countries would also be quite desperate to land a relatively young and stable western man, as he would be a means out of legitimate poverty and into a life of comfort and security.

 

[MatureDJ]

All their lives they are chased and chased by men, catered to, asked out. When someone comes along who doesn't chase, pursue it is an affront to their ego, and they must try and catch him to prove to themselves that they can.

I've played hard to get with some hot gals, but they have never tried to catch me to prove anything; OTC, it seemed that they were relieved that I was blowing them off.

 

[AttackFormation]

Some of those I'm sure are fake and/or just means to get money out of some desperate and lonely westerner. However, a lot of women in those countries would also be quite desperate to land a relatively young and stable western man, as he would be a means out of legitimate poverty and into a life of comfort and security.

Yeah the point was just to demonstrate womens' perspective. Imagine if you woke up to that every other day and had it in real life.

Yup, and even before this in those female targeted High School shows about labelling people "goth, punk, jock, nerd" etc.

Even pre online dating, a chick showed me her Facebook inbox and she was legit playing 15 guys at once lol

Yeah, antisocial media effectively is "online dating" for them. Not surprised at all about the 15 guys at once haha.

I just love seeing it out of womens' perspective, it's like that movie The Land Before Time where they go from one world to a complete other. Even the fake profiles boost your selfesteem haha.

We all know this is the case but I think every guy should experience it for themselves. Make a female profile, or a profile on an international site, and go get a taste of what it's like to be a woman around you. Maybe I've just gone off the rocker but I find it really uplifting, even fulfilling. It's literally like what I said, like coming into a new world where the laws of nature are fascinatingly different and you feel like a kid again.

 

[biggoal]

It's like there are two opposites. Women either like men with $$$$ and successful and have money to get them what they want, also clean cut or not, or they're attracted to these douchebags. They dress like crap, tatted up, not very good jobs, overall are losers. It seems they go for the two extremes. Either guys with money, or the douchebags. I see it all the time.

Then you got guys on here, average to above average looking men, make okay money, stable, little baggage and struggle to find a decent woman while hot HBs go for an ugly guy with money or a douchebag looking moron.

 

[Suave88]

I never really understood on a basal level why women just didn't go for good men and always opted for the douchebags. When I say good men I don't mean the weak, beta male doormat. I'm instead referring to an upstanding man who is well put together, strong, motivated, is truthful and honest with who he is and his intentions, etc.

On the flip side, I've seen women time and time again go for men that operated on a level that showed they were rather flaky, fickle, indirect, etc.....all traits that actually suggest weakness and a lack of true male character.

Why do women seem to prefer this over the strong man above? Is it because the former man is just not a project to work on? Is it because he is just boring to them and not a challenge? Are women just afraid of strong men with good character? I really don't get it.

This is an stereotype, and when it comes to you it says you like the type of women that a douchebags get.

 

[AttackFormation]

when it comes to you it says you like the type of women that a douchebags get.

Hahahaha, man... that was the most sardonic remark in the thread. What a golden piece of deadpan delivery. You probably didn't even intend it to be funny but this made me laugh, hahahaha.... so embarrassingly insightful and grimly funny and bitter...

 

[jimmy_scandal]

I never really understood on a basal level why women just didn't go for good men and always opted for the douchebags. When I say good men I don't mean the weak, beta male doormat. I'm instead referring to an upstanding man who is well put together, strong, motivated, is truthful and honest with who he is and his intentions, etc.

On the flip side, I've seen women time and time again go for men that operated on a level that showed they were rather flaky, fickle, indirect, etc.....all traits that actually suggest weakness and a lack of true male character.

Why do women seem to prefer this over the strong man above? Is it because the former man is just not a project to work on? Is it because he is just boring to them and not a challenge? Are women just afraid of strong men with good character? I really don't get it.

It's not that women love douchebags; they just won't date YOU in particular. Stop complaining about women and become more attractive.

 

[rjc149]

Since when do men calibrate to women? Does this mean you manipulate them by showing something other than yourself? Is your purpose to hang onto women?

Calibrate to improve, to become a better, more balanced and attractive man in general. I wasn't born as the best version of myself.

Easy there, killer.

 

[Epic Days]

Calibrate to improve, to become a better, more balanced and attractive man in general. I wasn't born as the best version of myself.

Easy there, killer.

Just checking. There’s a very precise distinction there.
Even with amazing improvement, you dont calibrate to women.

I’m no longer in the service and I rarely go easy. Fly fishing finesse? Yes go easy.