Why are you stealing?

[Paradox]

It seems that stealing has not only become commonplace but it had come to be acceptable social behavior

The internet when it was first concieved and used was meant to be an information sharing tool among scientists and professionals.

It's growth since it's inception has been geometric.

People are using the internet to steal (download) music and to watch movies that they did not purchase tickets to see.

A co worker said that he is not stealing music he is just downloading it. I asked him what if someone came to his house while he was at work and downloaded his furniture onto a truck.

Here are some questions:

If everyone is downloading (stealing) music/movies is it still a crime?

If millions of people are stealing music/movies isn't it still a social/moral/religious crime?

 

[KontrollerX]

If a million people believe a lie to be the truth its still a lie.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkP_OGDCLY0

So yes the people downloading movies and music are thieves though those thieves do sometimes have good reasoning for how record companies and movie studios are thieves as well for overcharging the consumer for either a subpar product or just overcharging in general.

 

[Paradox]

So yes the people downloading movies and music are thieves though those thieves do sometimes have good reasoning for how record companies and movie studios are thieves as well for overcharging the consumer for either a subpar product or just overcharging in general.

This is a poor excuse for stealing. If I think that TV's are too expensive does that give me the right to steal one...or more

 

[Alle_Gory]

This is a poor excuse for stealing. If I think that TV's are too expensive does that give me the right to steal one...or more

Its copyright infringement. This is like going over to the store and making a copy of a TV.

 

[KontrollerX]

"This is a poor excuse for stealing. If I think that TV's are too expensive does that give me the right to steal one...or more"

I agree with you but I'm just giving you the reasoning that I read all over the internet all the time for why people steal.

It will probably never end either.

Hackers are too good at what they do and the culture is too corrupt to stop this behaviour on its own.

I think people steal online so easily because maybe they only view and would feel guilty over stealing a physical item such as an Ipod or videocamera.

When something stolen takes the non physical form of say an MP3 or WMV file it doesn't feel to people like they are stealing from someone else for that reason that its a non physical item and plus they are likely also rationalizing that they got it from a host that shared it with them who likely owns the product themself so its probably viewed by them the same way as sharing a pizza would be with a buddy or they view it as well the person that hosted the item still has it so its not like I've stolen anything etc.

Meanwhile the companies suffer from the thievery and lost sales.

 

[DJDamage]

It all started when the record and later on the movie industries were too slow to react when Napster first came aboard and instead of working with the new technology and realising they must change in order to survive and thrive, they decided to sue the website owners, sue the users for downloading the songs and essentially try to eliminate this technology all together.

The joke ended up being on the industries in the end because when they shut down Napster, millions of file sharing website's popped all over the world. Only recently have they began to smarten up by offering cheaper rates for downloading songs and video's and offering a better quality alternative's such as Blu-ray discs.

 

[Paradox]

Its copyright infringement. This is like going over to the store and making a copy of a TV.

BS. If you did not pay for it then you are stealing

 

[j0n024]

I dont remember people complaining when people were recording movies on cassette tapes or movies on VHS.

Stealing is wrong and the FBI says they are cracking down but until you get a big name for downloading songs and make it public knowledge then noone is going to stop.

Plus people already broke the BR and HD-DVD encoding and have already begun to burn BR and HD-DVD movies.

 

[Bible_Belt]

My local FBI office does not bother to pursue complaints unless there are reported to be over 100 pirated CDs or DVDs. 100 is the magic number.

Intellectual property law is a fairly recent invention. I can see the importance of protecting some trademarks, patents, and copyrights, however, the system gets abused just as much by large corporations as it does by kids downloading music. Having an expensive pack of attack dog IP lawyers is more powerful than any copyright that the government issues. There was a semiconductor company in the 90's that made the majority of its revenue by patenting every idea possible then waiting for another company to eventually develop that idea and suing them for millions once any competitor had success with a patent that was only unworkable theory to them.

Personally, I don't believe in IP law in regard to music. I lost all respect for Lars Ulrich with his whining about Napster. Artists should want everyone to listen to their music as much as possible. It only helps them. If it cuts into the revenue of selling overpriced CDs, then their value for concerts, celebrity appearances, and endorsement contracts will go up correspondingly. If Lars could somehow mail a Metallica box set to every person in the world for free, he would not be ruined. The new celebrity status of everyone getting his music for free would be worth more than the music by itself ever could be.

 

[speakeasy]

I download music all the time that I haven't paid for. I still buy music too, so I'm not 100% either. I can tell you though and I speak on behalf of many others that much of the time, I'm downloading stuff that I wouldn't have paid $15 for anyway if buying it was the only option. So I question just how much the music industry is losing. The other day, I downloaded that song from M.I.A., that catchy one was in Slumdog Millionaire where you hear the gunshots and ring of the cash register mixed in the chorus, can't remember the name right now. That's a perfect example of a song I don't like enough to pay for, but just had it stuck in my head one day and thought I'd download it. For that reason I think you could take away file sharing tomorrow and I doubt you'd see a major increase in music sales.

Also keep in mind, none of this stuff is anything new. Be honest, when you were a kid, how many times did you dub a copy of a tape from friends? Everybody did it.

The best way to address the matter is to have a recording industry surcharge for broadband internet. Maybe a couple extra dollars a month that would be added to your cable or dsl bill which would be disbursed to the recording artists. They did that for blank tape sales in the 80s since they new that most of them were being used for copy infringement. People are not going to stop downloading, the cat out of the bag. Just charge a fee for high speed service. I don't think there's anyone out there who downloads that is going to whine if he has to pay an extra $3 a month for broadband knowing that the artist will get compensated.

 

[Duffdog]

Paradox,

The answer to your question is: because they can.

It has typically been the answer to pretty much any moral question ever asked. People are evil and tyrannous in groups by default. You can look at it this way; would you rob a bank and become a millionaire overnight if you knew that nobody and nothing could stop you and you would get away with it? Of course you would. The fact is, humans are totally fine with doing things that are "wrong" as long as they can get away with it. It all lies with the balance of power. For instance, did you know that it is illegal for a person to create or own any type of device which prevents them from dying or being injured when shot by a police officer? Some people might say that a law like that is "wrong" also.

Right and Wrong are simply a matter of timing and geographical location.

 

[Paradox]

Paradox,


Right and Wrong are simply a matter of timing and geographical location.

I disagree. Stealing is stealing in every part of the world. Stealing is stealing if you did it in the past, are doing it in the present or will do it in the future.

 

[Alle_Gory]

BS. If you did not pay for it then you are stealing

But you see, I did pay for it. With the TV analogy I would spend time and money buying parts to build the clone.

Its not so cut and dry. There is nothing physical to take. Another question you need to ask is: Would I have paid for it anyways? What if I can't afford it or like it enough to spend the money on it. I would not have bought it anyways, does it make a difference then if I download it?

 

[Duffdog]

I disagree. Stealing is stealing in every part of the world. Stealing is stealing if you did it in the past, are doing it in the present or will do it in the future.

No, its not. If it is done at the proper time and in the proper location, history just renames "stealing" to something more socially acceptable. For instance, the french celebrate "Bastille Day" not "stealing weapons day." You would be hard pressed to convince an American that the founding fathers "stole" the colonies from the British.

The concept of theft changes depending on who has the resources and who wants them. Like I said, a matter of timing and location.

 

[Inquisitus]

BS. If you did not pay for it then you are stealing

So if i buy a CD, rip tracks to an MP3 player, then give those tracks to my brother. Is that considered stealing?

 

[CaptainJ]

Downloading games, movies and music is copyright infringement. Copyright infringement is not stealing, but it is still fraud nonetheless and you are liable to be sued by companies.

There is a big difference between downloading a mp3 track and stealing someone's TV. One is copyright infringement, and one is theft.

 

[Paradox]

But you see, I did pay for it. With the TV analogy I would spend time and money buying parts to build the clone.

Its not so cut and dry.

Stealing is stealing. What is not cut and dray about that?

There is nothing physical to take.

You are stealing something that was created for the purpose of selling it. You are stealing someones created product.

Let's say you and your band made a song. You set up a website to sell it for .99 cents. Your song becomes popular and the money starts flowing in. You and your bandmates are able to pay rent with no problem, buy new furniture, and afford good meals (goodbye McDonalds). Someone copies and distributes your song to the world for free. The cash flow stops and you and your bandmates are back to square one.

Another question you need to ask is: Would I have paid for it anyways?

Yes, you would have paid for it if you liked it.

What if I can't afford it or like it enough to spend the money on it.

If you can't afford it then don't buy it. If you don't like it then why download it?

I would not have bought it anyways, does it make a difference then if I download it?

If you don't like it then why download it?

Alot of people try to dance around that fact that they are thieves

 

[Darles Chickens]

Let's say you and your band made a song. You set up a website to sell it for .99 cents. Your song becomes popular and the money starts flowing in. You and your bandmates are able to pay rent with no problem, buy new furniture, and afford good meals (goodbye McDonalds). Someone copies and distributes your song to the world for free. The cash flow stops and you and your bandmates are back to square one.

Or maybe i download the album and decide i like it so much i buy a ticket to got see them at a gig or a concert.

So if i buy a CD, rip tracks to an MP3 player, then give those tracks to my brother. Is that considered stealing?

Or you could buy it then rip the tracks to mp3 and then return the cd to the shop for a full refund or vouchers or an equivalent value.

In some of the music download communities it actually encouraged that file sharers go out and buy the cd/dvd or general media if they like a particular artist enough to do so. I know of a number of times when i've decided to do this. So if i decide to download an album or film off the internet and like it so much i decide to buy it am i still breaking the law??

The whole area surrounding this is as screwed up as the warnings on cds and dvds that tell you you're not allowed to play them in public places such as on coaches.

Basically i can have a cd and play it to you if you come over to my house and you will hear the whole album for free. If you like it i can do you a physical copy right there and not be frowned upon even though you haven't paid for it. Where is the real difference??

 

[Paradox]

No, its not. If it is done at the proper time and in the proper location, history just renames "stealing" to something more socially acceptable.

Stealing is never acceptable.

For instance, the french celebrate "Bastille Day" not "stealing weapons day." You would be hard pressed to convince an American that the founding fathers "stole" the colonies from the British.

But if I came to your house and took your house at gunpoint then it belongs to me. Correct? Who does the world belong to?

The concept of theft changes depending on who has the resources and who wants them. Like I said, a matter of timing and location.

Theft is theft no matter when and where.

 

[speakeasy]

If you don't like it then why download it?

Alot of people try to dance around that fact that they are thieves

Because it's easily available for free. People will always take something if it's readily available for free. When they are giving out free samples of something at the supermarket. I always take it, but if my only way of trying whatever they have there was to buy it, I wouldn't buy it.

I don't claim that downloading pirated music is not immoral, I just think it should be dealt with realistically, the same way they dealt with people making copies of tapes back in the 80s and 90s.