Who is best Day Game pickup artist?

[SW15]

2-3 lays per 100 approaches isn't a terrible statistic. There are men who have even worse results than that.

It's terrible for someone who teaches daygame, writes books, and considers himself as one of the best daygame PUA.

There is a level of inefficiency that is a part of approaching strangers in a non-bar venue (daygame).

In non-bar venues, there are plenty of women in existing relationships who aren't open to new penis. Nightlife venues are in theory more of a targeted audience because women in relationships would have no need to go to bars.

As someone who has practiced non-bar approaching, I can tell you about its inefficiencies. There are a lot of conversations that go nowhere. I don't even bother to offer a 1st date because either the conversation is clearly going nowhere and/or the conversation fizzles out in less than 60 seconds, before it is even conceivable to offer a date.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

As someone who has practiced non-bar approaching, I can tell you about its inefficiencies. There are a lot of conversations that go nowhere. I don't even bother to offer a 1st date because either the conversation is clearly going nowhere and/or the conversation fizzles out in less than 60 seconds, before it is even conceivable to offer a date.

Daygame is difficult if you're not a good conversationalist. Doesn't make it inefficient, just not suitable for those who don't have the ability to strike up a conversation.

 

[SW15]

Daygame is difficult if you're not a good conversationalist. Doesn't make it inefficient, just not suitable for those who don't have the ability to strike up a conversation.

Good conversationalist is a very subjective term. There are plenty of "good conversationalists" who have mediocre at best outcomes with daygame. One would have to be very good to excellent + have looks on point. Money might help as well if one is displaying status symbols. Looks are more important than money in non-bar approaching. Money might make a difference on the date itself or at some point later on in the seduction/retention effort.

 

[characternote]

Good conversationalist is a very subjective term

It's also far from the most important thing. It is easy though.
Stephen Fry for example is universally thought of as a 'good conversationlist'.
But if he was out in bars or something hitting on hot 18 year olds, he'd need about 2000 approaches before he 'possibly' got lucky lol (yes I know he's gay, but for arguments sake, pretend he's straight and obviously not famous)

What matters is if you are her type and she is attracted to you;
If that's in place your 'conversational skills' doesn't really matter. We all know them handsome dumb 'badboy' guys who can barely string a sentence together who have a flock of girls on the go! I know many!
And if that's NOT in place (her attraction), then the 'best conversational skills' in the world isn't gonna cut much ice

 

[SW15]

What matters is if you are her type and she is attracted to you;
If that's in place your 'conversational skills' doesn't really matter. We all know them handsome dumb 'badboy' guys who can barely string a sentence together who have a flock of girls on the go! I know many!
And if that's NOT in place (her attraction), then the 'best conversational skills' in the world isn't gonna cut much ice

Looks are #1, especially for younger men. When a man gets to middle age (35 - early 50s), he'll need to look good for his age group but it's difficult to win on looks alone in middle age. Money becomes a bigger part of the seduction equation when a man reaches middle age. A 40 year old man can emphasize money when trying to seduce 18-25 year olds or women closer to his own age. It's very difficult to get big age gaps without money.

In initial approaches, it is sometimes difficult to show off money. It can be possible in the approach scenario. A man can show off a Rolex at a grocery store or a mall in doing approaches there. Status symbol possessions are the key way to show off money in initial approaches. In gym/fitness class approaches, Nike/Adidas athletic wear doesn't mean a whole lot in achieving success.

 

[YourGreatestFear]

surely everyone has tested 'negs' and trying to roast girls.
She just looks at you like 'go away' and will move away (although of course she will laugh and give you $hit back in a friendly/flirty way OF you are her type and she thinks you're hot)

But it's generally this from a thread where a guy was asking why when he approaches girls and roasts them, they just look at him like he's on fire and walk away lol:

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it's a bit like people who promote the exact opposite as a holy grail (being super complimentary and telling her how hot she is etc. There's some posters here who advise that) It ALL works, and it all fails. It depends on the girls attraction to you

I think you should re-read my post, lol. What I'm talking about isn't the old-school negging and not some serious ****. If she isn't starting to qualify herself hard, you're doing it wrong and from the wrong frame and in the wrong way. It's now just what you say, but HOW and WHY. Negging a girl and waiting for her reaction is a fail. Negging a girl and not being 100% secure in yourself is a fail. That's not a "technique" per se, but a result of you really not treating the woman seriously and **** testing her. And, first and foremost, you're doing it to have fun and not to just insult her, silly.

 

[characternote]

If she isn't starting to qualify herself hard, you're doing it wrong

or you're not her type. (way WAY more likely lol)

If you really think John Candy (alive and without fame lol) is gonna be banging Prime Megan Fox using your neg lines, you're insane!
Agree to disagree in this case. I've seen enough PUA's and everyone else fail with negging/playful banter/disqualification/whatever you want to call it.
It simply does NOT create sexual attraction lol. If only! If it did, forums like this wouldn't exist. We'd simply all be doing it and getting laid like rockstars with literally whoever we wanted!

it's incredibly simple. If you are her type, your negging will work. But then so would doing the opposite and and complimenting her looks and being very sexually forward etc (called 'mode 1' in the industry)

And if you're not her type, both styles will annoy her lol

 

[SW15]

I've seen enough PUA's and everyone else fail with negging/playful banter/disqualification/whatever you want to call it.

Negging is no longer an effective tactic. Additionally, negging was a tactic typically used in nightlife venue approaching. I don't think negging was strongly recommended as a daygame tactic ever.

 

[YourGreatestFear]

or you're not her type. (way WAY more likely lol)

If you really think John Candy (alive and without fame lol) is gonna be banging Prime Megan Fox using your neg lines, you're insane!
Agree to disagree in this case. I've seen enough PUA's and everyone else fail with negging/playful banter/disqualification/whatever you want to call it.
It simply does NOT create sexual attraction lol. If only! If it did, forums like this wouldn't exist. We'd simply all be doing it and getting laid like rockstars with literally whoever we wanted!

it's incredibly simple. If you are her type, your negging will work. But then so would doing the opposite and and complimenting her looks and being very sexually forward etc (called 'mode 1' in the industry)

And if you're not her type, both styles will annoy her lol

That's not how it works, buddy. If a literal hobo starts to "neg" you the right way you're going to start qualifying yourself unless you're 100% self-assured. A literal hobo can attract women. Women don't work like men do, they don't give a **** about looks, they only care about validation. And good looking guys are just a way to get validation, nothing else. It's easy to prove, really. There's a tribe where all men have giant balls the size of their head, and there women compare men by the size of their balls - the one with the biggest is considered the hottest guy of the tribe, the "alpha". There are other tribes, some where people try to make their necks as long as possible, some where they compete in how cool their tatoos, etc. Modern beauty standards aren't any different. There's no such thing as a "type" in objective terms. Any woman slept with a lot of guys who aren't "her type" throughout her life.


Many women who I ****ed directly told me that I wasn't their type. That they didn't find me attractive at all at first. A friend of mine ****ed women who literally told him "piss off, ugly" when he approached them because he was just after surgery and had some serious health issues, he was skinny as a Holocaust victim and his face was full of acne, but he acted like he was the hottest guy ever. And he had those women attracted to him. There's no woman who would tell you that her "type" is a skinny guy with acne who didn't wash his hair for two weeks. Or that her type is some fatass who slept with her last week.

Why the heck so many black pill guys visit seduction community websites? If you think the game doesn't matter and anything works if you're good-looking and nothing works if you're ugly, then you have a hundred of other forums about style, bodybuilding, looksmaxing, etc. Do looks matter? Yeah, the worse your looks are, the more game you need, that's true. Because being close to social standards gives you a default "validation value", i.e. women will feel validated by your attention alone and unless you mess up, a significant portion of them will sleep with you. But you have to be very isolated from the real world to not notice guys who aren't conventionally attractive and who still get amazing results with women.

 

[mikedee]

That's not how it works, buddy. If a literal hobo starts to "neg" you the right way you're going to start qualifying yourself unless you're 100% self-assured. A literal hobo can attract women. Women don't work like men do, they don't give a **** about looks, they only care about validation. And good looking guys are just a way to get validation, nothing else. It's easy to prove, really. There's a tribe where all men have giant balls the size of their head, and there women compare men by the size of their balls - the one with the biggest is considered the hottest guy of the tribe, the "alpha". There are other tribes, some where people try to make their necks as long as possible, some where they compete in how cool their tatoos, etc. Modern beauty standards aren't any different. There's no such thing as a "type" in objective terms. Any woman slept with a lot of guys who aren't "her type" throughout her life.


Many women who I ****ed directly told me that I wasn't their type. That they didn't find me attractive at all at first. A friend of mine ****ed women who literally told him "piss off, ugly" when he approached them because he was just after surgery and had some serious health issues, he was skinny as a Holocaust victim and his face was full of acne, but he acted like he was the hottest guy ever. And he had those women attracted to him. There's no woman who would tell you that her "type" is a skinny guy with acne who didn't wash his hair for two weeks. Or that her type is some fatass who slept with her last week.

Why the heck so many black pill guys visit seduction community websites? If you think the game doesn't matter and anything works if you're good-looking and nothing works if you're ugly, then you have a hundred of other forums about style, bodybuilding, looksmaxing, etc. Do looks matter? Yeah, the worse your looks are, the more game you need, that's true. Because being close to social standards gives you a default "validation value", i.e. women will feel validated by your attention alone and unless you mess up, a significant portion of them will sleep with you. But you have to be very isolated from the real world to not notice guys who aren't conventionally attractive and who still get amazing results with women.

No, @characternote is right. Of course there are some exceptions, like the ones you mentionned, some "miracles", some guys get lucky sometimes but in general, if you're not her type/she is not attracted to you physically, it won't happen whatever you say.
That is just the reality.

 

[Velasco]

. A friend of mine ****ed women who literally told him "piss off, ugly" when he approached them because he was just after surgery and had some serious health issues, he was skinny as a Holocaust victim and his face was full of acne, but he acted like he was the hottest guy ever. And he had those women attracted to him.

And what did these women look like? Hot 18 year old girls in their prime? Or average looking girls past their prime?

 

[Millard Fillmore]

I would say 90% are scam artists. As a successful cold approach/day game guy, it is easy to tell. I watch them it is obvious that either it is staged or either the girl never answered the first text, or the guy is a complete retard. Most of those guy look average or below average, looks are everything in cold approach, it's just the reality. You can believe what you want, they only show you what they want to show you. What happens after the approach, we don't know. Probably nothing. Like @characternote says, if they approach 100 and get 2 or 3, they are not good daygamer they just play the number game.

PUA approach videos always come across as super cringe to me. Probably because I know it's staged. Talking to a girl for two minutes on a busy London street and saying "what if we just kissed right now" is going to fail 99/100 times, and their "game" always looks creepy and weird. Not hating though if they actually get results, good for them.

 

[characternote]

PUA approach videos always come across as super cringe to me. Probably because I know it's staged. Talking to a girl for two minutes on a busy London street and saying "what if we just kissed right now" is going to fail 99/100 times, and their "game" always looks creepy and weird. Not hating though if they actually get results, good for them.

i don't think they're always staged, but here's what I think of when I think of infields.

1/ I've never seen anything that blew my mind or really surprised me or especially impressed me. (both with infields and in real life with community guys who claimed to have god like game)

These guys are supposed to be the best in the world, but they all basically get the results i'd expect. The same results as I believe me or any of my friends in their bodies (and in their locations hitting on the same numbers of girls per night) would get. Basically the same approach to lay ratio. They all get rejected a tonne. Of course the better looking younger dudes like Coach Kyle tend to get better results than the older, uglier guys (maybe Vadim for example) despite the fact that Vadims game is probably better. Guys like Tyler who wasn't blessed with looks gets laid some and even bangs some cute girls, BUT he gets rejected a metric tonne in order to find them girls! (same story with me. Lots of lays, lots of hot girls, but LOTS of rejections lol)

His 'game' (or anyone elses game) is seemingly completely irrelevant if she is not into him when he opens. Even if he knows the secret 'neg lines' and 'uses them right'. She....does....not....care! lol

2/Leading on from that. Lets say there's been maybe 10,000 infields released between free vids on youtubes and premium products etc (I think i've watched about 95% of them by the way!). We see lots of pulls. We see lots of dismissive rejections (where his 'game' seemingly doesn't work and he is just delaying the rejection with his 'game').

But What about the interactions where he opens her and she ignores him and tells him she's not interested etc, BUT through the use of his NLP verbals and negs and 'frame' etc etc he changes her mind from 'go away' to 'please bang me!!' ??
Shouldn't this type make up a very large percentage of the interactions?! Why then are they as rare as hens teeth.

In fact, not only are they as rare as hens teeth, I don't believe there's ever been one!!
The closest I think of is
a/where cajun from keystotheVIP (which honesty looks like it's basically reality TV and very far from an authentic interaction!) manages to
get a girls number who told him to go away on his approach (not to mention his approach was to call her a retard which kind of undermines the whole premise since even if she kinda liked him, of course girls will react like that if you open like that)
b/maxRSD. This doesn't count either by the way. People always use it as an example of taking a girl from 'hell no' to 'yes', BUT they clearly haven't watch the premium product!! They Only watched max's marketing youtube vid that he edited in a way to fool viewers into thinking he banged the girl who was ignoring him when in fact, them girls all walked away and the girl he actually banged was a completely different girl who approached him!!! (because she thought he was hot!!). Max was clever enough to edit it, because it's not exactly a good look for 'game' if it didn't work, and then the one girl you pulled was nothing at all to do with 'game'!! lol

As has been said by many a million times, the 'game' element is negligable. (but not non existent. I heard someone say yesterday 'you can talk yourself out of her underwear but not into it' which i think it's quite apt)
It's a numbers game of finding the girls that are attracted to you which is confirmed by infields (they bang 'yes girls' and get rejected by 'no girls' and she decides within about half a second).
Nobody can 'game' and neg their way into a girls pants who isn't attracted to him at all. Only time you will hear this is anecdotally from anonymous people online who claim to always do it (despite the apparent best coaches in the world not being able to do it!). It's a bit like someone claiming to be able to deadlift 600kg when the world record is 500! lol

 

[YourGreatestFear]

No, @characternote is right. Of course there are some exceptions, like the ones you mentionned, some "miracles", some guys get lucky sometimes but in general, if you're not her type/she is not attracted to you physically, it won't happen whatever you say.
That is just the reality.

Just because you're attracted to girls physically based on their looks alone, doesn't mean that this works the same way for women. If that was the case, then physically attractive guys would have zero rejection rate just asking for sex. But they don't. Unless she's repulsed by how you look, you're good enough to attract her "physically". As I said, good-looking guys are just a source of validation, it doesn't work in a way that women get wet when they see a hot guy and are "dry" when they see an ugly one, and they decide who to **** based on that, that's absolutely ridiculous assumption that has little to do with reality. Women chase status and validation, and you know this as well. Just think about it — if we take the same average-looking guy and make him a rock star, will he get more *****? He'll get more than guys much hotter than him because he has more "value". Your looks are just a part of the value a woman can get from being with you, that's it. Otherwise, women have a much lower "looks threshold" than men do.

And what did these women look like? Hot 18 year old girls in their prime? Or average looking girls past their prime?

Lol, this guy was in his early twenties and never even approached past-wall women. Yes, those were 17-19 year-old hot girls. As if there's a big ****ing difference. In fact, game "works" better on hotter and younger girls, because they are less in their heads and are less used to guys being confident around them. It's easier to sleep with a 10 than with a 7 if you have a strong game. Because 7 is more used to men acting like she ain't ****, and for 10 that's far less common. If he had no game, with how he looked back then, even 3/10 girls would reject him.

But What about the interactions where he opens her and she ignores him and tells him she's not interested etc, BUT through the use of his NLP verbals and negs and 'frame' etc etc he changes her mind from 'go away' to 'please bang me!!' ??
Shouldn't this type make up a very large percentage of the interactions?! Why then are they as rare as hens teeth.

Because a girl won't openly tell you to "bang her" in the middle of the street and even if she did, sharing it on youtube would be very questionable. And no, RSD guys and other PUAs aren't "the best in the world". The really best guys don't waste their time trying to earn with pickup. They have far better ways to earn money. There's no big money in picking up women, RSD was the only truly successful PUA company, and it wasn't as profitable as a bigger car wash business. The best guys are usually "naturals" and they care less about teaching others. Dbot from this site tried, and so did Snow Plowman, and they weren't "naturals", thogh the latter had a lot of natural friends. But the thing is, the real game is all about practice, just knowing theory isn't enough.

And what do you mean by a "very large percentage of interactions"? A woman going "go away" is an exception, not the rule. Most women are receptive if you're approaching them giving value. Even when you're negging them hard they just laugh. Creating attraction with game requires only a minute or less, then you just keep maintaining it. It's not like you need one hour to "change" a girl's perception of you.

The closest I think of is
a/where cajun from keystotheVIP (which honesty looks like it's basically reality TV and very far from an authentic interaction!) manages to
get a girls number who told him to go away on his approach (not to mention his approach was to call her a retard which kind of undermines the whole premise since even if she kinda liked him, of course girls will react like that if you open like that)
b/maxRSD. This doesn't count either by the way. People always use it as an example of taking a girl from 'hell no' to 'yes', BUT they clearly haven't watch the premium product!! They Only watched max's marketing youtube vid that he edited in a way to fool viewers into thinking he banged the girl who was ignoring him when in fact, them girls all walked away and the girl he actually banged was a completely different girl who approached him!!! (because she thought he was hot!!). Max was clever enough to edit it, because it's not exactly a good look for 'game' if it didn't work, and then the one girl you pulled was nothing at all to do with 'game'!! lol

As has been said by many a million times, the 'game' element is negligable. (but not non existent. I heard someone say yesterday 'you can talk yourself out of her underwear but not into it' which i think it's quite apt)
It's a numbers game of finding the girls that are attracted to you which is confirmed by infields (they bang 'yes girls' and get rejected by 'no girls' and she decides within about half a second).
Nobody can 'game' and neg their way into a girls pants who isn't attracted to him at all. Only time you will hear this is anecdotally from anonymous people online who claim to always do it (despite the apparent best coaches in the world not being able to do it!). It's a bit like someone claiming to be able to deadlift 600kg when the world record is 500! lol

Yes, you can't neg into a girl's pants if she isn't attracted to you at all. If she's lesbian, asexual, or you're 80-year-old, then game won't help. If you are an average looking guy, then game will get you girls. If you're ugly, then ONLY game can get you girls, unless you change yourself. Getting girls with your "looks alone" is only possible if you're top 5% good-looking, otherwise it's all about your game aka communication, both verbal and non-verbal. Do you really believe that fat guys never **** hot women? Did you see Luke from RSD? Or any popular fratboy or powerlifter who's overweight and still gets ***** without his money? If no, then you have rather little real-world experience.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

Roosh's "Day Bang" (now out of print) was a solid manual for implementing daygame into your own life. I read "Day Bang" soon after it was published in 2011 and transitioned more of my practice from nightlife venues to non-bar. I was in my late 20s then and seeking a way out of the bars. I had been aware of daygame as early as my early 20s but never knew how to put daygame into practice in real life until "Day Bang".

I have as well learned more from roosh than any other pickup artist out there. His elder opener works well especially compared to asking random girls about opinions. I don't know how it is in usa but I am sure I will be seen as crazy if I ask a random on street whether kissing is considered cheating or not

What do you mean 'works well'? How many non-drunk, non-retarded girls went out on a date with you after you cold approached them with an 'elder opener' ? What girl in her right mind is going to be fooled be a 20-30yrs old guy with horny/weird vibes acting like he's an innocent 80yrs old pensioner looking to make small talk.
Roosh is a grotesque, mentally deranged individual who hates women and actually wrote in his book Day Bang that he views them as 'lubricated holes that exist mostly for man's sexual pleasure'.

I'm currently reading Day Bang! and @pipeman84 is absolutely right, this is the most retarded day game; pretending to be a doddering old fool to 'game' young women.
His "Is it Good?" openers are so incredibly lame. And asking wine advice from young women?
From Day Bang!:

Then I’m saved when a girl comes into the section looking for a bottle of wine for an upcoming dinner party. Wine is a topic many girls take pride in and will attempt to impress you with, just like with fashion. Plus the fact that she drinks wine means she won’t be exceptionally hard to get into the sack. While still appearing confused, half-staring at the wine and half-staring at her, ask if she could recommend a wine based on a set of parameters. Then ramble about wine.

And trying to impress these girls with his worldliness is so cringe.

My big bait drop would eventually be something along the lines of, “When I was living on the coast, the produce was so cheap that it was no big deal if it was bad. There I overbought everything to compensate for the bad produce phenomenon. I kind of wasted a lot of food.”

Yes, Roosh, I'm sure that will impress the girls. I pity his 'students'.

 

[characternote]

Vadim needs to learn the secret neg line to make all girls attracted.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

Vadim needs to learn the secret neg line to make all girls attracted.

Wow, that's so pathetic. This guy teaches this shyte?

 

[characternote]

Wow, that's so pathetic. This guy teaches this shyte?

He (Vadim) charges $9750 for a 3day bootcamp per student. He's not short of students either! He's rolling in money

(he tried 'breaking rapport tonality' in that clip - guaranteed attraction)

James Tusk quit a very well paid stock broking job in London in order to be a PUA coach. He now makes a hell of a lot more money teaching men to walk up to girls, tell them they're pretty, make a cold read 'you look like you work in fashion?' (in order to make her attracted to him in case she doesn't think he's attractive. Apparently) - and then to go for the number.

unfortunately his students don't seem to get the results James gets

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

$9750 for a 3day bootcamp per student. He's not short of students either! He's rolling in money

Imagine how desperate you have to be to pay 3250 a day to learn how to speak to a woman.

 

[pipeman84]

James Tusk quit a very well paid stock broking job in London in order to be a PUA coach. He now makes a hell of a lot more money teaching men to walk up to girls, tell them they're pretty, make a cold read 'you look like you work in fashion?' (in order to make her attracted to him in case she doesn't think he's attractive. Apparently) - and then to go for the number.

The guy is 37, looks prematurely aged ... probably roids, mental health issues and lifestyle combined.
Who pays this guy a lot of money and what for? Cringe, set up infields (where was the camera guy?) like this one?