white women

[ketostix]

Hey Colossus, there is no Affirmative Action in California. It was struck down several years ago much to the dismay of uninformed minorities. There was a big stink on all media in California the day after that happened-- essentially labelling everyone who voted for prop 209 a racist.

http://aad.english.ucsb.edu/pages/Prop-209.html

There might not be AA in legal theory, but in practicality and in mindset it's as strong as ever.

 

[SoCalMike]

Hey Colossus, there is no Affirmative Action in California. It was struck down several years ago much to the dismay of uninformed minorities. There was a big stink on all media in California the day after that happened-- essentially labelling everyone who voted for prop 209 a racist.

http://aad.english.ucsb.edu/pages/Prop-209.html

Not true. It was just made "non-mandatory" but is still practiced widely. I dated a girl who worked in college admissions. It's the same old game there - the policy, even though not mandated by law, is still to pick X number of handicapped midget black females even if they are less qualified than a white male applicant... no doubt this is still the case for countless other institutions.

 

[jafyk]

We all know that black women tend to be very outspoken and obnoxious when engaged in arguments, i.e. "the soul sista" behavior. Also, Latino women can be very mouthy toward men.

I really think that we live in an age when women--black, white, yellow, brown, etc.-- act condescendingly toward men...just watch any TV commerical, and you'll agree with me.

I agree with the Tv commercial point. It seems the ads are becoming more sexist. A woman always comes up with the bright idea that the dumb man didn't think of. Men are portrayed as clumsy while women know what needs to be done and yet you still see them commanding that same clumsy man to fulfill the task.
I can't fathom the idea of my wife making me go sleep on the couch, lol.

 

[jafyk]

Traditionally, yes. Now, thanks to feminism's close cousin--Affirmative Action--any non-white female (especially non-US natives) can get a full-ride scholarship or at the very least an acceptance to an ivy league institution provided they have some marginal credentials. Dont believe me? Apply to med school.

Dont get me wrong-- it's not that I have a problem with women or minorities in academics, it's that I have a problem with under-qualified minorities getting acceptances over well-qualified non-minorities (white men) based purely on their "under-represented" status. Rubbish. Thankfully, some states are now moving against AA and supporting merit-based matriculation; the way it should be.

20 years ago med school classes were~80% male. Now, in the post-feminist movement 21st century, classes are ~60% female, which has created a shortage in some surgical specialties; traditionally very male-dominated.

I have no problem with women in business, medicine, or law. What I have a problem with is the by-product of the feminist movement; which is certain groups of people getting special considerations irrespective of merit. "Glass ceiling" my as$. Women's rights?!? This is 2008, not 1908. I may be going out on a limb here but I think they have the same rights as any man does, even more so when it comes to certain legal issues.

First thay wanted equal rights. Fine, fair is fair and they deserve them. Now feminists are essentially pushing for preferential treament. It reminds me of growing up. My little sister would ALWAYS get away with wrongdoings simply because she learned how to manipulate the situation. Fathers always have a soft spot for their daughters, and she learned this very early. Now I love my little sister, but if any of you had younger siblings you know how frustrating this is. You give them an inch and they take a mile.

We live in a society now that has made great strides in civil equality, but unfortunately we now have a culture where men are afraid to put their fvcking foot down!! What the eff, my brothers?!?

The argument I've heard by professors about the above point is that getting rid of the AA situation is like expecting the minority to compete with their white counterparts who got a head start so many years ago. The dilema is that your argument is also valid too. So, we are stuck. By the way I'm black African if it means anything.

 

[ketostix]

Can you describe the "head start"? I'm not certain I understand.

It's a myth that somehow being white you got some vague monetary or developmental advantage at some early point from your family. It presumes that any disadvantage or failure of a family was because of discrimination.

But it's basically a BS justification for AA to base it on racial lines because it should be based on income if anything. Obviously you can be white and born into a crappy family and poverty and vice versa. But soon as you hit public school AA will smack you in the face, so when this head start would matter seems questionable anyway. Besides it's not another groups fault if their dad leaves them or what have you. For instance, not being wealthy nor having their dad around didn't stop Barack Obama from getting ahead. In reality if you're a white male you need to be born into an advantage just to make it due to the unlevel playing field of AA.

The way I see it is all this paints the white male as the target and women as the benefactor. So I don't think there's any difference between Americanized women whether white, black or asian or whatever. I've ran into a higher percentage of Asian women who had attitude problems if anything.

 

[Colossus]

Not true. It was just made "non-mandatory" but is still practiced widely. I dated a girl who worked in college admissions. It's the same old game there - the policy, even though not mandated by law, is still to pick X number of handicapped midget black females even if they are less qualified than a white male applicant... no doubt this is still the case for countless other institutions.

Duffdog- I didnt know that AA was made non-mandatory in CA. I think, though, that SoCalMike is probably correct--this may not be legally enforcable anymore, but in regular admissions practice I think it's alive and well. Ideally, I would like to see merit-based matriculation legally mandated.

I think one of the reasons they instated these practices was to give the 'underserved' or 'under-privileged' a chance they otherwise wouldnt have---like inner city kids. Giving these kids a leg up may be rooted in good intentions, but it cheats the otherwise qualified, hardworking individuals out of what they worked half their lives for.

There is just going to be disparities like this in a non-socialistic society. A lot of Americans want to have their socialist cake and eat it too, but you cant have the economic liberties we have now (e.g. the freedom to get outlandishly rich) and the stability of a socialist economy such as Canada without relinquishing many of the libertarian ideals the United States was founded on.

I've always liked the traditional get-what-you-earn philosophy, but unfortunately these days people want it to be get-what-you're-entitled-to.

 

[jafyk]

Can you describe the "head start"? I'm not certain I understand.

By head start I mean that until recent times the white have had most of the opportunities. A lot of the blacks are still dealing with baggages from the past that have been past down from generation and others that are still in play today.

 

[jafyk]

It's a myth that somehow being white you got some vague monetary or developmental advantage at some early point from your family. It presumes that any disadvantage or failure of a family was because of discrimination.

But it's basically a BS justification for AA to base it on racial lines because it should be based on income if anything. Obviously you can be white and born into a crappy family and poverty and vice versa. But soon as you hit public school AA will smack you in the face, so when this head start would matter seems questionable anyway. Besides it's not another groups fault if their dad leaves them or what have you. For instance, not being wealthy nor having their dad around didn't stop Barack Obama from getting ahead. In reality if you're a white male you need to be born into an advantage just to make it due to the unlevel playing field of AA.

The way I see it is all this paints the white male as the target and women as the benefactor. So I don't think there's any difference between Americanized women whether white, black or asian or whatever. I've ran into a higher percentage of Asian women who had attitude problems if anything.

You're right about what you say. Still there are gray areas. The whites are the majority, most of the decisions are made by the rich whites in the upper places. If you disagree then you're in denial. People like Obama are few exceptions and even then his mother's side of the family was white. So, it could've added to his advantage in moving up.

 

[SoCalMike]

By head start I mean that until recent times the white have had most of the opportunities. A lot of the blacks are still dealing with baggages from the past that have been past down from generation and others that are still in play today.

I think this was a valid argument a long time ago. But today? No way. Blacks have it way easier than Whites in terms of getting into college, or getting a professional job. There were two Black Engineers I knew in college who had recruiters beating down their door and competing for them a full year before they graduated. We were dormmates, I witnessed this first hand.

In addition, my sister is a college professor (in English). She works alongside a Black female professor and a lesbian professor. Even my sister, who is a flaming liberal, admits that the Black female and lesbian can EASILY find another teaching position if they so desire, and the University bends over backwards to keep them happy. My sister, on the other hand, does not rank as highly on the leftist totem, being just a White female (only one notch above White male). Therefore, she is told she can't have a full semester off when she had her first baby... just for one example. They finally agreed to it after much hassle.

To say that Blacks are "disadvantaged" and need special help, is, basically, admitting they are inferior. Why can poor Asian immigrants come here and work hard, earn/save money, and prosper? Are they not "disadvantaged" too? How about poor Whites? Do they deserve no scholarships?

It's all crap. Each person should be judged as AN INDIVIDUAL and given what they deserve on merit. If we truly believe in equality, this is the only rational way.

 

[puma183]

I agree with some of the above posters that this has more to do with socio-economic level than about ethnicity.

My parents worked as expats and as such I attended various international schools at middle/high-school level. Basically any time you are dealing with an upper-middle-class raised woman, whether she is American, Indonesian, Korean, or Turkish, you are going to see the same "princess" mentality that we associate with white-women in this country. The symptoms are the same the world over. Essentially it's game over when she utters the words "Daddy, I want a pony" and either gets her wish or gets placated in some other way.

 

[ketostix]

I think this was a valid argument a long time ago. But today? No way. Blacks have it way easier than Whites in terms of getting into college, or getting a professional job. There were two Black Engineers I knew in college who had recruiters beating down their door and competing for them a full year before they graduated. We were dormmates, I witnessed this first hand.

In addition, my sister is a college professor (in English). She works alongside a Black female professor and a lesbian professor. Even my sister, who is a flaming liberal, admits that the Black female and lesbian can EASILY find another teaching position if they so desire, and the University bends over backwards to keep them happy. My sister, on the other hand, does not rank as highly on the leftist totem, being just a White female (only one notch above White male). Therefore, she is told she can't have a full semester off when she had her first baby... just for one example. They finally agreed to it after much hassle.

To say that Blacks are "disadvantaged" and need special help, is, basically, admitting they are inferior. Why can poor Asian immigrants come here and work hard, earn/save money, and prosper? Are they not "disadvantaged" too? How about poor Whites? Do they deserve no scholarships?

It's all crap. Each person should be judged as AN INDIVIDUAL and given what they deserve on merit. If we truly believe in equality, this is the only rational way.

Yep so true. This system is nothing but a heirarchy or caste system based on race and gender that puts white males on the bottom and black women at the top. When it comes to advancement a white male is the lowest on the totem pole, behind even illegal aliens, third worlders and especially women. They have even through brainwashing or force in numbers (since white and male is only about 30% of pop.) many white males to work against each other and give preferential treatment to everyone else, but not nearly as bad as it's brainwashed white women.

 

[DoubleA]

i know this may stir some controversy, but i have to know if others have noticed this trend, or if it's just me.

i know that women of all races can become 'westernized' and succumb to what we might call 'feminist attitudes'. but it appears that white women are by far the worst when it comes to this.

i live in an area with a lot of different races, but it seems that of all the mean spirited/negative/just plain crazy types out there, the majority are white women.

are white women more susceptible to feminist propaganda?

opinions?

Mike,

I Fukk'd around and deleted my post by accident.

Depending on where you live gives a minority the egde or not. I live in the Washington, DC area. Most (80 percent) will be easier to meet if you are a minority max'd out with appearance. Women stay here and leave after four years.

COMPLEXION is the deal. Women will let minority know who they select concerning shades of skin tone. I've even heard most women want a certain type of man concerning skin tone. Let's face it concerning a white woman who dates outsideher race, meets the criteria for what's accepateble to mommy and daddy.

Now, Conversation including your education background is the main key. But most important is my ATTITUDE. HOWEVER, I go places where I atleast have ave a BS Diploma. Don't get me wrong talking about politics does'nt cut shyt. Women go places to meet men that mutual things in common.

To answer you main question....TREAT THEM JUST LIKE ANY OTHER WOMAN. WHY?? They are!!! Here is the truth. Most brothas who "succed" put women on pestals. They aren't! They meet black men and it seems only WHALES of heavy white women in slummin spots. So a white woman is Very Special to them. Are they?? I Dunno. Maybe after being alone for a while..someone that looks "good" to my "Fam" will make me King. Not!! Just to have diamond to show doesn't mean it's an actual diamond, either.

Meet women on common ground!

If not, MOVE ON. White women need love too. I think WOMEN (ALL) if you have something in common, will gravitate. That's the law of gravity.

- " Y (Peace) "

 

[SoCalMike]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v198/bigbadbutch88/Comics/racerelations.jpg

hmmm...

This is crap. I come from humble beginnings, and have EARNED everything I have.

Quite frankly sir, you can take this crap and shove it where the sun don't shine.

I never rode the back of another man to get to where I am. My Dad is 1st generation American (from Greece) and my Mom's family came here from Ireland in the 50's.

Don't insult me. Very few Whites benefitted from slavery. You act as though we all made fortunes off the Black man and are still enjoying the advantage.

Lies, plain and simple.

 

[jafyk]

Can you describe the "head start"? I'm not certain I understand.

The head start would be the opportunities of being free and the beneifits along with everything else associated with it, as opposed to be a slave. The fact that that past still has some bearing today as blacks are still looked down on just cos of the color of their skin. While slavery is not going on today there is some form of mental slavery that's still attached to the past. In some ways I can't relate to the Black Americans because my ancestors in Africa weren't slaves. Just recently I went to my old neighborhood here in U.S. with a white class mate of mine to do some research for class. The Black Americans there wouldn't even talk to us and became uneasy. I had never had someone scared of me like that before. A man and woman old enough to be my folks refused to talk to us. They pointed us to an older lady as we approached her she went indoors and shut her door. next were 2 young men our age. They wouldn't even hear me out. So, why is it that even today that slavery is no longer existent this people would react like that? My guess is my white class mate made them nervous and even he was equally scared. Sometimes I wish I could understand the fear of the black American. I don't even know why blacks born in US are called African Americans. No one says European Americans, lol. Well, I hope you get what I mean cos I don't know how else to explain it to you.
Here's one example I can think of. A lot of white Americans have some kind of inheritance or the social status of being white passed down to them. (if that makes sense to you)

 

[jafyk]

Hi jayfk,

I can understand part of what you're saying. However, I do believe the vast majority of younger Americans today have been as "free" as anyone else, regardless of color.

You mention that the blacks wouldn't talk to you because of fear of your white friend. It sounds to me like this mentality of fear goes both ways.

I find it interesting that you think blacks are looked down upon due to some past slavery.....if anything, I think you better nailed it with the fear statements you made. I personally think it's fear based on the violence in the black community. Can you give me your opinion on why you think blacks are afraid of whites?

Well, I think in the particular instance I encountered it might have been a fear based on trust issues or hatred. I say fear because that's a neighborhood that cops frequent a lot and stuff is always going. Maybe the guys thought we were undercover cops because of him. In a sense it doesn't make sense because the guy with me at least was about 21 (clean cut). I am 27 but could pass as 19 if I shaved,lol. I have dreds too. How many cops do you know with dreds? In the past I have been sitting in my car in the past on that street and some random black guy will walk up to me and in their sign language ask me if I want to buy drugs. Most people talk of that part of town as being the ghetto but people from Chicago would disagree. Despite the stigma and I was never afraid of living there. Infact I didn't even realize it was considered the ghetto until I had long moved out of there. I also think this fear that a lot of Americans have is learned. Some of the disease is starting to spread to my foreign black friends. I can be riding in a car with my friend and a bunch of other blacks; then one of my friends says "That cop is gonna pull us over cos there's a bunch of us black guys in a car" Hearing that talk irritates me and when I speak out against it. I'm accused of being naive. The way I see it even if a cop pulls you over for being black. If you have nothing to incriminate yourself and you respond favorably to them what do you have to worry about? I was more disappointed that those black folks on the street I had lived wouldn't even talk to me (I don't look anything gangsta). It's weird but as an African I find it easier dealing with white people in social settings (like school) than I find it dealing with black "Americans". Many white Males I've encountered tend to invite me out to do something social with them compared to the black Americans I've met.

 

[jafyk]

There is now a black man for president... all AA stuff is rendered bs. 4 years from now, I expect to hear my people talking about being held down by THE MAN!

\

Really? How do we know he won't be a puppet leader playing by the white man's rule? Or that when he tries to do right by blacks he won't be considered as being biased and assasinated. Obama becoming president doesn't guarantee anything but it gives me hope that almost anything is possible. I believe many blacks have gotten a sense of belief and perhaps oneday this AA that we are contending here will be dealt away with. For now it' still a touchy subject because both sides of the argument are right. If I'm to make an observation... I've noticed that most Africans who come over here tend to be successful compared to most Black Americans. We come here determined to make it without any sense of entitlement. When you consider this too most of us who migrate here are no better than the blacks born here and the blacks born in U.S. have more rights and priviledges since they are citizens. So, what is the problem then? Old habits and the mental slavery thing. Along with the fact that racism still exists. Perhaps we Africans who come here have an edge because we are to some extent racially naive and haven't been bombarded with the racial whatever you may choose to call it.

 

[decades]

No, it has more to do with their family conditioning, especially who Mom and Dad was.

 

[jafyk]

Good points stormbringer.....

A couple of questions though.

1) Can you give me an indication of where you think there is racism against blacks?

2) By the logic you mention above, do you also find it justifiable for women to gain similar advantages due to past oppression on them?


Ultimately, I really think that the best way to end "racism" against blacks (at least in the US) is for the black community to stand up against the violence in their neighborhood and have absolutely NO tolerance for drugs, gangs, robbery, street fighting or violence. Stop the fear, and you fix most of the problem.

Maybe your suggestion will help but racism goes all the way to the top. Look at movies how many black actors do you see? It's hard to start pointing out lots of places to you but my guide for you is to watch the movie crash and you will start to gain some sort of understanding. Blacks are racist too.

 

[Duffdog]

There's plenty of racism against blacks on an implicit, non-institutional level...ranging from de facto segregation that still keeps blacks out of many white neighborhoods, right down to the MANY cases of white cops harassing, arresting, and beating blacks who pose no threat....and on to cab drivers who don't pick up black fares, and store clerks who carefully eye the black customer browsing around. It is these current examples of racism against blacks that have shamed many blacks into self-loathing and distrust. A 29-year-old black woman I work with told me she wants to have children with either a white man or a very light-skinned black man because she doesn't want her kids to turn out dark. When I asked her why, she said that the darker you are, the worse you are treated. A couple of other blacks around her age overheard and vouched for her reason. Mind you, these are young blacks who were born well after desegregation. This woman even cited as an example an instance when she went to a store near our workplace with a black co-worker who is much darker than she is, and her friend got overlooked for service in favor of her, even though her friend was ahead in line. It's no wonder you see many blacks today who refuse to date blacks. They have been shamed into hating themselves.



Given history, it is justified to an extent.

Every action has a reaction. Sooner or later, every group that has been held down to the bottom IS going to undergo an uprising. They will eventually push back - HARD. Those at the top aren't going to like it because it is a disruption of their comfort zone and a threat to their position. It's quite simple: had there not been such anti-gay sentiment over the ages, you can bet there would be none of the gay pride parades that uppity straights complain about. That's why I find it so funny when I hear some people trying to use non-arguments such as "Well, you don't see straights having a 'straight pride' parade," or "You don't see there being a white history month." An oppressive group has never HAD to explicitly celebrate or defend itself, because they have CREATED the rights they enjoy, and they are used to their dominant position being the norm for the society at large. Some are SO used to being a part of the status quo that they don't even realize they are. As a result, they are SO out of touch with the notion of an oppressed group feeling a need to stand up and be counted that they misconstrue such reaction as a "threat" and "seeking special treatment." Consider how whites complain about the BET channel, saying "We'd never get away with having a white channel"...but such people are too short-sighted to realize that for the first several decades of television history, EVERY channel on tv was a "white channel," even if it wasn't referred to as such. All of this is why the terms "white power" and "black power" have completely different connotations. The former is indicative of the historically oppressive group retaining its status as oppressor, while the latter simply indicates the historically oppressed group no longer allowing its oppression. The latter does NOT reflect a desire to be the new oppressor. Had whites not been oppressive, the term "white power" today could actually hold positive connotations for society at large, rather than negative.

History has taught us that group oppression WILL have its consequences. In the grand scheme of things, affirmative action, blacks getting away with poking innocent fun at whites on tv, and whites being scarred with a negative reputation is nothing but the TINIEST of consequences.

So, what do you propose as the solution to all these evil/repressive white people?

 

[Warrior74]

eventually...this thread would get to this point. Race is bull****. People are people. there are good and bad in all groups as you well know. Let's just play fair and be honest with ourselves and most of our race issues will take care of themselves...except most people aren't honest with themselves are they?