Whining

[zekko]

This is a tale of my younger days, when I was in my early 20s, and I was pretty darn AFC honestly. What I would do is seek comfort from females, I would actually WHINE to them about my dating problems, how my ex-girlfriend had dumped me, and how so and so didn't appreciate me, and how hard it was to find a decent girl to date, and how I was going to have to die alone lol.

Now here's the weird part. I can think of at least THREE, and indirectly four, of these girls who responded to this whining by wanting to date me, and yes we ended up having sex and going out for a time. The only thing I can figure is that they recognized that I was available, and maybe related to my stories of difficulties with the opposite sex. Maybe I even stirred some emotion in them, who knows?

I certainly wouldn't advise using this as a strategy, looking back on it I kind of cringe. But it's interesting to compare these results with what they tell you here: That you should never show any reaction to rejection, you should never show any sign of weakness, you must never let it be seen that a woman affects you, you should never show any AFC tendencies at all, not even for an instant or poof all attraction will be lost. So how can it be that this worked out to my benefit?

 

[Boilermaker]

Very interesting Zekko.

You always come up with these counter-intuitive stories from personal experience.

I am looking forward to a discussion on this from the veterans.

Honestly, I couldn't come up with a simple explanation of this as one of the

resident theorists, if this effect you're describing is true.

RT could spare a paragraph or two maybe,

or carry it to RM if this turns out to be deep enough.

Cheers,

BM

 

[Three]

My take on this is that it's OK to show emotion, and good to do so in appropriate situations, but that doesn't equate with weakness. A man can be sad about the loss of a loved one or the breakup of a relationship while still making it apparent that he's going on with his life and moving forward. Being a man doesn't mean never showing your humanity. In fact, it's been my experience that showing your human side (not necessarily weakness) can be very attractive to females.

 

[betheman]

I know a guy, really, who is f cucked up mentally, he is a charmer though, in his mid 40's. he charms the girls then gives them the poor old me, life been horrible, its so unfair. before not too long, they are sucked in and hooked on him, his problems come out (the male version of a cluster B) and they are screwed.
as a strategy it can and does work but ultimately its dishonest and is doomed to failure long term, great for short term though.
the usual disclaimer of course applies, if youre good looking and charming, doesnt matter if you area bum or a millionaire, you get laid

 

[Mike32ct]

There are different types of relationship whining...

1. My gf is being a b&tch. Or my ex didn't appreciate me. This can "work" to attract other women because you are showing that you are desirable because you do date. Plus it challenges her indirectly to prove she's better than the girl(s) you complained about.

2. I just can't get any girl. I get rejected all the time. This screams loser to her. She will never date or do you after hearing this. None of her friends will give you a chance either.

It worked because you were in the first category.

 

[st_99]

But it's interesting to compare these results with what they tell you here: That you should never show any reaction to rejection, you should never show any sign of weakness, you must never let it be seen that a woman affects you,

imo whatever is real is going to show. If you really want to whine and b!tch about how hurt you are, it doesn't really matter if you actually do it outwardly or hold it inside. It will show. At some point you need to get to a point where you actually are above all that.

I did a lot of whining in the past, mostly to myself. How silly of me, where did it get me? what has it done for me? what was the point exactly? I think at some point you see how futile resisting reality is and learn to accept and not resist what IS, then life will start working for you.

 

[Mike32ct]

The bad boy complains about his psycho, yet hot AW gf.

The nice guy complains about not having a gf.

Who scores more points with other females?

 

[5string]

Back then zekko, you were a cute little puppy and those chicks patted you on the head (put out). No disrespect. Have seen this before.

Sometimes, sympathy can make a gina wet.

 

[Findog]

I think whining and b*tching has a purpose if you're processing feelings of unfairness and/or you honestly feel like you got screwed over or a raw deal from a girl. I've had relationships and dating situations end where I felt like the girl behaved honorably and other situations where I felt like they were a b*tch or handled things with a lack of integrity or whatever. I think it's okay to feel like crap for a while and indeed it's actually necessary to get that whining out of your system instead of repressing it and holding it inside, but the problem is when you get stuck there and refuse to move on. Sometimes a girl will lead you to a well and that's on her, but it's up to you if you're going to continue to drink from it.

 

[origin138]

So how can it be that this worked out to my benefit?

I think if we look at this from a purely psychological perspective, these women were "caretakers", people who grew up in a home where their definition of love was formed around how well they performed in the caretaker role. So naturally they'll be drawn to people who demonstrate neediness. Natural empaths who only feel useful when they're taking care of someone or have a 1 up on someone. A female AFC/codependent if you will.

Samspade made a really good point about your dating stories demonstrating options. It goes back to the basics...no woman wants a man no other woman wants. While you may have been sitting there seeking solace/advice from a listening female ear, these women may well have been turned on by jealousy/competition.

I think much of what is said on SoSuave is meant to cover all the bases and is treated as one size fits all. It seems the world of women is somewhere quite in the middle.

Just my 2.

 

[SecondHalf]

Couple things to consider ...

When I dated on match.com, I quickly learned, if I was just riding the waves, all I had to do was be the opposite of her ex in the last 5 years. It was easy!
Perhaps, it had to do with these young women hounding for colder men, and found your ability to "feel" refreshing ... for a time.

Next observation I've had, kind of a funny story...
A terrible jerk friend (more associate) of mine went on a dating site with a somewhat vague profile. In a warning (kind of), he stated in his profile that he "bruised easy". He was honestly referring to a blood condition that he had excusing his lack of activity interests and not his sensitivity.
He was flooded with emails from Captain-save-a-bro's. He capitalized on this big time!

SH

 

[Boilermaker]

I think if we look at this from a purely psychological perspective, these women were "caretakers", people who grew up in a home where their definition of love was formed around how well they performed in the caretaker role. So naturally they'll be drawn to people who demonstrate neediness. Natural empaths who only feel useful when they're taking care of someone or have a 1 up on someone. A female AFC/codependent if you will.

Samspade made a really good point about your dating stories demonstrating options. It goes back to the basics...no woman wants a man no other woman wants. While you may have been sitting there seeking solace/advice from a listening female ear, these women may well have been turned on by jealousy/competition.

I think much of what is said on SoSuave is meant to cover all the bases and is treated as one size fits all. It seems the world of women is somewhere quite in the middle.

Just my 2.

^

Makes a lot of sense.

 

[Bible_Belt]

When I dated on match.com, I quickly learned, if I was just riding the waves, all I had to do was be the opposite of her ex in the last 5 years. It was easy!

Yep. I once saw an Internet personal ad written by my ex-wife. In the "what I want in a man" paragraph, she wrote 'I want someone who is not...' and then wrote a long paragraph basically describing me. She is mixed-race, and I don't think she ever even dated another white guy after me - it was Indians and Arabs only. Curiously, I looked and acted a lot like a much younger version of her elderly father, and my relationship with her died at exactly the same time that he did. The psychological aspect of attraction is some weird stuff.

 

[betheman]

I think the 'bad boy' with a soft/vulnerable spot, is a valid play. women need something to go on, men who have there sh1t together can come over as brusque, unobtainable almost robotic, like the Borg, women need to work an angle too sometimes, that angle is the weakness, the sob story, mother just died, child just died, you were robbed at gunpoint and havent recovered etc (yes this is devious sh!t but think like a psychopath for a while, they dont hesitate to use this stuff and it works!)

 

[Stagger Lee]

Back then zekko, you were a cute little puppy and those chicks patted you on the head (put out). No disrespect. Have seen this before.

Sometimes, sympathy can make a gina wet.

I think this is the most likely what's at play. Why do guys persist in believing that women are so mysterious and random (I know why. It's a rhetorical question)? If you are attractive and have a good appearance, there's a million ways you can go about it and get layed. If you're not so attractive and don't have a good appearance, then there are very few ways that will work.



Of course that's not to say that whining is the best way or even a good way to go about it, but always playing the "alpha male" isn't always the best way either.

Women are subjective, but it's based on the totality of your appearance. Whether you are whining or being the alpha male has little meaning or effect outside of her perception of the totality of your appearance.

 

[zekko]

Being a man doesn't mean never showing your humanity. In fact, it's been my experience that showing your human side (not necessarily weakness) can be very attractive to females.

I was talking to a friend of mine about this, and I told him how I was surprised that these girls weren't repulsed by me. His reaction was "For what? For being human?". Now he has a bit of an AFC streak in him (in some ways), but maybe he had a point.

Sometimes, sympathy can make a gina wet.

If you're horny enough, you're never too proud to go for that ole sympathy sex lol. And I was very horny in those days...

Forget the term "whine" and its connotations. The man who talks about his dating/sex life to women on some level is demonstrating his options. Yes you were saying you'll die alone, which is pretty pathetic.

I had considered this. If you have a great girlfriend and she dumps you, does it make you a loser? Or does it show that you can get a great girlfriend (social proof)? Even if you can't keep one lol.

Regarding the "I'm going to die alone" line, I should point out that I actually was saying that kind of tongue in cheek, I was trying to inject a little humor, so maybe that helped.

I think if we look at this from a purely psychological perspective, these women were "caretakers", people who grew up in a home where their definition of love was formed around how well they performed in the caretaker role.

That's probably true. These girls probably wanted to help "fix" me because I was broken. Women, as hateful as they can be, are natural nurturers.

The other thing I was thinking is that we are always told that we should make women feel emotions. It doesn't matter if it's good or bad, as long as they feel emotions. Well, maybe this works for making them feel pity or sympathy too.

But I still would not recommend this as a strategy lol.

 

[ArcBound]

Back then zekko, you were a cute little puppy and those chicks patted you on the head (put out). No disrespect. Have seen this before.

Sometimes, sympathy can make a gina wet.

Not sympathy, but emotion. Take a girl to any extreme whether it be anger, happiness, sadness, joy, laughter, embarrassment, humiliation and she's more willing to sleep with you.

I know it sounds very girly but connecting with a girl's emotions really does make her fall for you. Fvck her mind and her body will follow. Girls don't operate solely on logic, you can't completely rationalize attraction, you have to make her actually feel things deep down and when she does she will want to hang on to you with all her might. (Including putting out)

Also see the song "You Belong With Me" by Taylor Swift (no homo). It's a song about Taylor wanting to get with a guy who has a girlfriend, but the thing is the lyrics are about her OUTDOING his girlfriend. She wants him because he already has the pre-selection and experience of being with girls, but she fantasizes about being a better version. It's how girls compete for that one pre-selected guy. Sure zekko you whined, but all these girls knew you could score and get girls and they wanted a piece of zekko pie.

 

[timmylivingalie]

This is a tale of my younger days, when I was in my early 20s, and I was pretty darn AFC honestly. What I would do is seek comfort from females, I would actually WHINE to them about my dating problems, how my ex-girlfriend had dumped me, and how so and so didn't appreciate me, and how hard it was to find a decent girl to date, and how I was going to have to die alone lol.

Now here's the weird part. I can think of at least THREE, and indirectly four, of these girls who responded to this whining by wanting to date me, and yes we ended up having sex and going out for a time. The only thing I can figure is that they recognized that I was available, and maybe related to my stories of difficulties with the opposite sex. Maybe I even stirred some emotion in them, who knows?

I certainly wouldn't advise using this as a strategy, looking back on it I kind of cringe. But it's interesting to compare these results with what they tell you here: That you should never show any reaction to rejection, you should never show any sign of weakness, you must never let it be seen that a woman affects you, you should never show any AFC tendencies at all, not even for an instant or poof all attraction will be lost. So how can it be that this worked out to my benefit?

Were these chicks older than you?

 

[Three]

I was talking to a friend of mine about this, and I told him how I was surprised that these girls weren't repulsed by me. His reaction was "For what? For being human?". Now he has a bit of an AFC streak in him (in some ways), but maybe he had a point.

Yep. There's a difference between being human and being a total pvssy. We should always maintain our frame, but expressing our sorrows, joys, etc, is part of the magnificent intensity of being a man. Think of how John Wayne or Cary Grant would act. You would know they were really feeling something intense by their body language and facial expressions, but they never seemed out of control or emasculated.

The other thing I was thinking is that we are always told that we should make women feel emotions. It doesn't matter if it's good or bad, as long as they feel emotions. Well, maybe this works for making them feel pity or sympathy too.

Yes, again. I've mentioned before I'm going through a second divorce. I have to say I've never had more female friends who know my situation, many of them hot, most even married or with boyfriends, but all competing for my attention and clearly jealous of each other. It's crazy and I'm still trying to get my head around it without fvcking all the married chicks...

 

[Jitterbug]

The dating game is a bit different 30 years ago, Uncle zekko.

Nowadays, those young girls would have heard it all from their dozen male orbiters, plus all the exciting dramatic live updates on Facebook 24/7. In your time, having that kind of emotionally intimate contact with a male was rare compared to now.