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Where are these other guys meeting these attractive women?

pipeman84

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Instead of luck I like to call it divine orchestration. It's clearly something more than meets the eye when you see couples formed in middle school or high-school on one hand and on the other there are men and women actively seeking throughout their 20s and don't find a mate.
Everyone has their own path in life ... the high school sweethearts will have their own set of challenges ... so I don't think one should look at them with envy ... like for instance: my pal Jake is so lucky, here I am at 30yrs old sorting through trash on OLD while Jake had his future wife served on a silver platter when he was 17.
 

sangheilios

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Instead of luck I like to call it divine orchestration. It's clearly something more than meets the eye when you see couples formed in middle school or high-school on one hand and on the other there are men and women actively seeking throughout their 20s and don't find a mate.
Everyone has their own path in life ... the high school sweethearts will have their own set of challenges ... so I don't think one should look at them with envy ... like for instance: my pal Jake is so lucky, here I am at 30yrs old sorting through trash on OLD while Jake had his future wife served on a silver platter when he was 17.
That's exactly what I and other posters were getting at. Relationships often just kind of fall in line with little to no effort. Other people can have a ton of **** going for them, put in the work and still have nothing to show for it. Hell, maybe it's astrology lol.
 

Murk

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anyone can do it
 

sangheilios

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Sang its not. Thats probability and ratios. Solid math.
Luck implies it is something that extrordinary and out of reach of your burden of performance. And your perfofmance is directly related to your game.
Luck means a guy can say. Im unlucky and born short...so he will carry that attititde with him and polute his game.
Self defeatism never gets the girls.
You are missing the point of where I and the other posters on here are going for when using the term luck.

About a decade ago there was this middle aged hispanic woman that I knew at the time who was talking about how she met her husband when she was in her 20s. Anyway, she said that they met on the bus in their city, went on a date and the rest was history. This is a great example of what I'm talking about, these 2 by chance happened to be on the same bus that given day at that specific time AND had been seated next to each other. They also had some degree of mutual attraction towards one another and she felt that it was worth giving out her contact information to this man. They then go on a date and find that they also have a degree of personal compatibility so they go on a 2nd date, etc. None of this would have happened if they weren't on that specific bus at that specific time, had not sat next to each other, etc. It also wouldn't have lined up that way if either one of them were already in a relationship at that given period of time. It's also possible that they may have had some degree of initial interest but then after going on a couple dates they really don't have much going in regards to personal compatibility, which means they never would have been married to one another.

This is how a substantial number of relationships start, not specifically meeting on a bus but you get the idea. If any of these variables were off or did not align then it would prevent a serious relationship from having ever commenced. There are so many variables that are well outside of your control as a man, such as those that I mentioned on here. Most men that are in relationships didn't have to put a ton of effort into making that happen, it more or less just lined up on it's own.
 
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SW15

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According to the video, handsome men either date down from women who aggressively pursue them or end up with superficial women with a similar looks level. The superficial woman with the similar looks level is a better option.

OLD is trash and has abysmal success for men so I'm going to completely eliminate this option and stick to purely real life interactions.
That's how most men experience tech-based dating methods. It's amazing that a 6'4" man with big muscles is saying this, as that's the type of man who typically has good experiences on swipe apps.

Now, out of all of these interactions how many of these women are going to be in a place mentally where they are even open to dating? Maybe her grandma died last week, or she recently brokeup with her bf or maybe her mom is sick in the hospital......just about any variable can potentially take her off of the dating market in that given time period.
One wild example of this I saw was at a liquor store when one woman without a ring on her finger was waiting in line ahead of me with while wearing earbuds. This is an example of a woman not being open to being approached. Liquor stores can be a decent place to pick up women. No one ever really talks about them.

A guy could be 6'2", 210 that is active and fit, has a good paying job and does well for himself. He has no real issues that should be an immediate turn off (drugs, alcoholic, etc.) but yet is chronically single because he was unlucky in that nothing ever lined up for him in regards to his dating life. He could have crossed paths with women but just had terrible timing on each and every interaction. Eventually he gets frustrated, begins to place less and less importance on it and his exposure greatly decreases, which makes this issue even worse.
Sounds like you. It's unfortunate. You've put in the work in the gym.

This is a horrible dating market and the vast majority of men that you see that are in relationships got lucky. They were not spending a ton of time working on game, hitting up the gym or working tirelessly on self improvement. Most of these guys were just lucky to be in the right place at the right time with no real effort and things lined up for them. These guys aren't Chads or celebrities or pro athletes, etc. they just got lucky.
A lot of those guys put in the effort and have a social circle, often due to geographical consistently.

Some of those guys are willing to dumpster dive and date down tremendously too.
 

sangheilios

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According to the video, handsome men either date down from women who aggressively pursue them or end up with superficial women with a similar looks level. The superficial woman with the similar looks level is a better option.



That's how most men experience tech-based dating methods. It's amazing that a 6'4" man with big muscles is saying this, as that's the type of man who typically has good experiences on swipe apps.



One wild example of this I saw was at a liquor store when one woman without a ring on her finger was waiting in line ahead of me with while wearing earbuds. This is an example of a woman not being open to being approached. Liquor stores can be a decent place to pick up women. No one ever really talks about them.



Sounds like you. It's unfortunate. You've put in the work in the gym.



A lot of those guys put in the effort and have a social circle, often due to geographical consistently.

Some of those guys are willing to dumpster dive and date down tremendously too.
I think what you mentioned here with the single woman wearing earbuds is a great example. Most men that will see such a woman will naturally take that as a sign of being a social interaction deterrent, so naturally they avoid her. Another really good example is women that are constantly glued to their cell phones, again this is just another deterrent because instead of looking around and making brief glances at individuals she has her eyes locked to a screen. I don't think women do this intentionally to ward off men and instead it's more a product of culture, this is something that younger millenials and gen zs have serious issues with. Overall, I'd say this age cohort has sub par social skills and often are not comfortable with interactions with those that are strangers.

This ties in with the idea that men are far more likely to approach women that appear open to such an interaction. All of these behaviors like we are discussing here are the opposite of that and naturally approaches do not occur. It's also totally possible that some of these women are lonely or even open to meeting a man, they just aren't aware how their behavior is preventing this from even happening. In addition to this, I feel that the younger generation of women, those that grew up with social media, are not very good at displaying to men that they are actually interested. I believe a lot of this all ties in with just the current culture, social media, the internet, etc. but it was made worse during the pandemic.
 

Murk

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According to the video, handsome men either date down from women who aggressively pursue them or end up with superficial women with a similar looks level. The superficial woman with the similar looks level is a better option.
It's true in my personal experience, women throw themselves at you and you take the best options rather than actively pursuing what you really want (a 9+).
 

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Imo its funny how we as men talk about luck being the main factor to meet women. First thing that comes to mind is this; lets flip the script and use a hb8 hot woman as example.

Does anyone believe that if she goes to a festival that lasts three days with thousands of people that its luck when she meets ANY man? She is in a environment where people party ,talk ,dance and socialize. Lets even say that YOU are talking to this hb8 on a really superficial level. Would you be surprised if you hear she met a dude at said party? No you wouldn't.

So why do you guys say that a man with similar smv like a hb8 woman would have to be lucky? To meet the perfect love of his life perhaps. But to simply go on dates? Dating is easier than ever. Even when 2/3 of all women are in a relation /situation ship a large chunk of them is also willing to "date up" and give new men a shot. A woman having a bf doesn't mean that much anymore.

Imagine a woman dressing up real slvtty going to a gansta party talking about being " lucky" to get a ONS. Its not about luck its about GAME. A man with game, in a environment with plenty of women will always be able to pull SOME woman.
 

Murk

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It's not luck but probability, you keep going out, meeting/approaching women, you will inevitably find "the one" whatever that means. Some guys here are way too happy to admit defeat.
 

SW15

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It's true in my personal experience, women throw themselves at you and you take the best options rather than actively pursuing what you really want (a 9+).
Let's take the example of a man who is an 8.5. A man is who an 8.5 will have women in the 5-6.5 range actively pursuing him. A man who is an 8.5 doesn't have to put in much effort to have sex with a 6. Plenty of men who are 8.5s are swiping on 6s on Tinder, Bumble, and Hinge. An 8.5 can have sex with a 6 on a first or second date from a swipe app. It's quite easy, and there's a near endless amount of 5s and 6s that can be smashed from the swipe apps with minimal effort.

If an 8.5 doesn't want to use swipe apps, he can pick up a 6 at a bar for a one night stand or short term casual sex arrangement nearly as easily. He won't have as much abundance from solely doing bar pickups as swipe apps, but he'll be able to do well enough on quantity.

It would take more effort for an 8.5 male to get an 8-9 woman even for one night, let alone some sort of extended relationship.

An 8.5 male is likely to be a guy who is 6'0"+ with a good physique. This is a guy who could do well meeting attractive women playing sand volleyball, either in random pickup games or in an organized co-ed league. For the 6'0"+ guy with a good physique, I don't think that sand volleyball is any more efficient than swipe apps or random approaching at bars. That type of guy is going to have success in all formats. It's a matter of how much screen time he wants to put in on his smartphone vs. how much real life approaching he wants to do and what his goals are. Doing something like trying to meet a top level volleyball playing woman (likely to be a 7.5+ in looks) will take more attraction-seduction effort.

I think it would be more fun for a 6'0"+ guy with sand volleyball skill to pick up women through volleyball than to sit on Tinder/Bumble/Hinge and swipe. It'd be a better use of time for that guy to play volleyball in terms of getting longer term relationships. That'd be the use case where I'd recommend volleyball over the swipe apps. It's a realistic scenario for a 6'2" guy to a get a 5'9"-6'0" volleyball playing girlfriend and that scenario has a better chance of lasting longer than flings with Tinderellas, most of whom are 5'6" and under.

I think what you mentioned here with the single woman wearing earbuds is a great example. Most men that will see such a woman will naturally take that as a sign of being a social interaction deterrent, so naturally they avoid her. Another really good example is women that are constantly glued to their cell phones, again this is just another deterrent because instead of looking around and making brief glances at individuals she has her eyes locked to a screen.
That one example of a woman in a higher end chain liquor store wearing earbuds while not having a ring on her finger is a great example. It's unknown whether or not she had a boyfriend. In addition, since about 2015-2017, I have also seen more women wearing earbuds while at grocery stores too. Wearing earbuds at grocery stores or higher end chain liquor stores prior to the mid-2010s was unheard of.

In a mid-size to bigger metro area (500,000+ in population), there is a case to be made that there are enough approach targets that it's not worth dealing with someone in an indoor retail setting wearing earbuds. The earbud wearing on the general gym floor or outdoor spaces is a bit different, and I'll get into that in a moment. The same also applies to women immersed in their smartphones. Wearing earbuds and being glued to a smartphone do signal a lack of interest in socializing with other humans. It will reduce a woman's in-person approaches.

I don't think women do this intentionally to ward off men and instead it's more a product of culture, this is something that younger millenials and gen zs have serious issues with.
Some women in relationships will wear earbuds in various settings to reduce approaches. There's no reason to wear earbuds in a liquor store or grocery store.

The culture around earbuds/headphones has changed over the years. When I was in college (2001-2005), it was the earlier days of the iPod and MP3 players. Even prior to the iPod and the MP3 player, there were Walkmans and Discmans. In the Walkman/Discman era of the 1980s-1990s, it was certainly possible to immerse yourself in a personal music device. In the USA, outside of the subways and the streets of New York City, it was uncommon for women to wear headphones then.

I remember being in my college's gym in 2003 and distinctly noticing how the majority of the most attractive co-eds at my university were wearing earbuds with their newer iPods and MP3 players. The lesser attractive women weren't wearing earbuds in the gym at that time. Fewer females were wearing earbuds walking between classes as compared to the proportion of women I see now wearing earbuds at parks or on walking paths. By the early 2010s, the earbud virus had spread to average and below average looking women at the gym while staying constant among the hotties. The growth in earbud wearing outdoors has been exponential. There has been a bit of the copycat effect among women with it. In 2023, we now have a history of ~20 years of women wearing earbuds/headphones at gyms. It's sort of been ingrained among women. Because this has been going on for so long, there are women doing it now who aren't even questioning it.

Outdoor approaching at parks, on walking/hiking paths, and likely on college campuses has been made far more difficult by the virus of earbud wearing.

At any gym, only a small percentage of men wearing headphones/earbuds on the general gym floor while nearly every woman does. I think a lot of this is related to in-person approaching and women being fearful of in-person approaching.

I'd say this age cohort has sub par social skills and often are not comfortable with interactions with those that are strangers.
This is true for both Millennials and Gen Zs. Realize that the oldest Millennials like myself are now old. The early part of the Millennial cohort is now starting to turn 40.

About 5-6 years ago, a good friend's wife claimed that she had never been approached at a grocery store. Considering that she was good looking in her 20s and was ~30 when she made that claim, it was a rather dubious claim when she made it. My friend and I both figured that she was so socially inept that she wouldn't even realize an approach if it had happened.

A number of wives in my local area social circle are at least moderately socially inept, and these are older Millennial women who are ~35 years old now. If these ~35 year old women are a bit socially stunted, imagine a 20-25 year old woman. A 35 year old woman today finished high school in the era before Instagram and smartphones, and when Facebook was only a college campus social network. They had AOL Instant Messenger as a precursor to smartphone texting though and might have even done some texting on feature phones in the mid-2000s.

In the mid-2000s, the pre-smartphone feature phones were mainly used for making phone calls while away from home with some very light texting done in noisy environments like bars/nightclubs.

This ties in with the idea that men are far more likely to approach women that appear open to such an interaction. All of these behaviors like we are discussing here are the opposite of that and naturally approaches do not occur. It's also totally possible that some of these women are lonely or even open to meeting a man, they just aren't aware how their behavior is preventing this from even happening. In addition to this, I feel that the younger generation of women, those that grew up with social media, are not very good at displaying to men that they are actually interested. I believe a lot of this all ties in with just the current culture, social media, the internet, etc. but it was made worse during the pandemic.
At least 10-12 years ago, I had noticed that Millennial women were getting poorer at using body language to signal interest to men for approaches. I saw a difference in female behavior in 2011-2013 compared to 2003-2005. This trend has likely gotten worse in the last 10-12 years.

There could be some younger women immersed in smartphones or wearing earbuds who are single and lonely. In recent times, most women have enough abundance from either their social media DMs and swipe apps (if using) that they don't even need to field in-person approaches anymore. There are also some women not open to new penis due to a boyfriend relationship that is at least moderately satisfying for them. Most women 35 and under who are single and not wearing earbuds can get approached enough in real life within a few months to find a decent boyfriend if they leave their homes on a regular basis.
 

Murk

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@SW15 To secure a good looking quality girl you have to approach in real life, apps are not going to cut it, if she’s hot and on OLD she’s been ran through/damaged. I like the beach volleyball idea but that can be applied to any location/event.
 

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This OP gives me a "gigs syndrome " feeling. Modern relationships have a shelf life of approximately two years. You might see a man with a woman but you know nothing about their dead bedroom, affairs that happened, generally shytty treatment ect.

Another HUGE factor is what satisfies you? A hb8 with a bubbly character amd some knowledge of philosophy and physics? Or are you willing to date a hb5 who will love you and treat you right?

I told you guys i am Caribbean. I know this guy from my country that most would describe as a typical " natural badboy ". Oh by the way ,he is like 5,7. He's now doing time( again) for stabbing someone after he talked to that someone's girlfriend..this type of men will laugh at the suggestion that getting women is about luck. He isnt the sharpest knife but smart enough to grasp that getting women is a numbers game. He'll talk to EVERY woman. Just taking a walk with this dude means stopping every few minutes because he tries to bag a woman. He gets rejected 5 times in a row and then BOOm , jackpot.His main gf is a hb5/6. Due his active approaching he occasionally fecks a hb7 higher, but he NEVER commits to them.

Moral of the story; a dating environment is what you make out of it. If you are an intovert it doesn't matter if you are 6.7 with muscles. Women DON'T approach men,period. You gotta be willing to put yourself out there.
 

Murk

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Women DON'T approach men,period. You gotta be willing to put yourself out there.
I always thought you were eastern european.

Anyway, women DO approach men, I've been approached many times but only up to HB7.5. The 8+ don't approach me, my last two GF's approached me, one in a club, one outside smoking area of a bar and were 7 and 7.5's. I went with the flow and ended up in 2 LTRs. Good enough to be seen out with, good enough to get hit on by men, but not good enough for me personally, not top tier women.
 

sangheilios

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Imo its funny how we as men talk about luck being the main factor to meet women. First thing that comes to mind is this; lets flip the script and use a hb8 hot woman as example.

Does anyone believe that if she goes to a festival that lasts three days with thousands of people that its luck when she meets ANY man? She is in a environment where people party ,talk ,dance and socialize. Lets even say that YOU are talking to this hb8 on a really superficial level. Would you be surprised if you hear she met a dude at said party? No you wouldn't.

So why do you guys say that a man with similar smv like a hb8 woman would have to be lucky? To meet the perfect love of his life perhaps. But to simply go on dates? Dating is easier than ever. Even when 2/3 of all women are in a relation /situation ship a large chunk of them is also willing to "date up" and give new men a shot. A woman having a bf doesn't mean that much anymore.

Imagine a woman dressing up real slvtty going to a gansta party talking about being " lucky" to get a ONS. Its not about luck its about GAME. A man with game, in a environment with plenty of women will always be able to pull SOME woman.
Yo, are you missing the point of the thread or what? The entire topic has been about where men are meeting the women that they are entering into relationships with. We've also provided many great examples of how this **** just lined up with no real effort on the man's part, it literally just fell into place. If you pay attention, this is often how the vast majority of relationships started. These men weren't going out spam approaching women and finally found one that just clicked. They weren't investing tons of time into reading pick up theory, practicing game and other such nonsense, etc. These men more often than not were simply in the right place, at the right time with the right woman who was in the right frame of mind and place in her life. If any of these variables are thrown off, these relationships would have never come to existence.
 

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I always thought you were eastern european.

Anyway, women DO approach men, I've been approached many times but only up to HB7.5. The 8+ don't approach me, my last two GF's approached me, one in a club, one outside smoking area of a bar and were 7 and 7.5's. I went with the flow and ended up in 2 LTRs. Good enough to be seen out with, good enough to get hit on by men, but not good enough for me personally, not top tier women.
Women who are confident will approach the more attractive guys, it is rare, but it happens. Last girl I was seeing singled me out at a concert and came after me. Made a thread on this a while back and handful of guys agreed that they were approached whereas most had never been. The common factor was the guys who were approached were good looking...go figure
 

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Yo, are you missing the point of the thread or what? The entire topic has been about where men are meeting the women that they are entering into relationships with. We've also provided many great examples of how this **** just lined up with no real effort on the man's part, it literally just fell into place. If you pay attention, this is often how the vast majority of relationships started. These men weren't going out spam approaching women and finally found one that just clicked. They weren't investing tons of time into reading pick up theory, practicing game and other such nonsense, etc. These men more often than not were simply in the right place, at the right time with the right woman who was in the right frame of mind and place in her life. If any of these variables are thrown off, these relationships would have never come to existence.
All these examples are gigs samples you take from a general feeling more than actual facts. Kinda high hearted to think you provided an actual solution to the OP's questions. All your post are about socalled "luck". And i don't believe in luck alone, or I should say, i believe you can push your luck as much as you like.

I wonder where you get that information from, about these men that were so lucky.
Even if you are a social super start and you know 100 happy couples like that ,thats still not a representation of whats going on in reality. In reality 63% of men didn't even date last year. So for every man that says he was lucky to meet his wife/gf,there are 10 "unlucky" men. Especially when they believe they're unlucky...also naive to think those men got women chasing them without providing huge value.

Believe whatever you want to believe. The so called "naturals" I know ,grew up with ect all have a few thing in common;

- they are social AF. You could call it spam approach, but they disguise it by being open ,social, talkative and friendly to especially women.

- they are almost never without a woman. They also know tons of women.

- most of them won't bother to cheat .

- they will laugh at the concept of needing luck to meet women , waiting , not playing the game.

- Again, they'll push this concept of luck by being at the right places at the right time, saying the right things, chasing the right woman, ect ect.

Some people live in a different reality. It is what it is. Your energy is better spend on topics that do provide clear cut answers. Even Tinder would've been a better answer.
 

sangheilios

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All these examples are gigs samples you take from a general feeling more than actual facts. Kinda high hearted to think you provided an actual solution to the OP's questions. All your post are about socalled "luck". And i don't believe in luck alone, or I should say, i believe you can push your luck as much as you like.

I wonder where you get that information from, about these men that were so lucky.
Even if you are a social super start and you know 100 happy couples like that ,thats still not a representation of whats going on in reality. In reality 63% of men didn't even date last year. So for every man that says he was lucky to meet his wife/gf,there are 10 "unlucky" men. Especially when they believe they're unlucky...also naive to think those men got women chasing them without providing huge value.

Believe whatever you want to believe. The so called "naturals" I know ,grew up with ect all have a few thing in common;

- they are social AF. You could call it spam approach, but they disguise it by being open ,social, talkative and friendly to especially women.

- they are almost never without a woman. They also know tons of women.

- most of them won't bother to cheat .

- they will laugh at the concept of needing luck to meet women , waiting , not playing the game.

- Again, they'll push this concept of luck by being at the right places at the right time, saying the right things, chasing the right woman, ect ect.

Some people live in a different reality. It is what it is. Your energy is better spend on topics that do provide clear cut answers. Even Tinder would've been a better answer.
I'm repeating myself again because you aren't understanding the topic of this thread. The post is about where these other men that you see in relationships are meeting women when a large number of single young(ish) men are wading through trash with OLD, chronically single, etc.

The vast majority of men, both those that are in relationships and those that are single, are NOT players, pimps, bad boys or men that have a constant lineup of women that are never going without. Vast majority of men in relationships got lucky or just had things line up for them. If for some reason these relationships were to end it's quite likely that these men could go a VERY long time without another date, sex, etc. This is the reason why so many men put up with women's b.s, become insecure/jealous or intensely mate guard. Also, other things besides dating and sex take on a heavy focus of a man's life, career being a major one.

Adult men that are looking to land a bunch of women are going to have go out of their way and put a lot of time and effort into this. Again, most guys either don't have the time or energy for this or they lack certain personality traits to ever make it work. A lot of men would honestly become quite stressed if they were to juggle multiple women. The one common trend I've seen with "players" is that they literally are never phased by the emotional roller coaster these women are on and are able to juggle all of these women. Something else to consider, is that most of the women that fall for these "players" more often than not have a lot of internal issues going on, which points to the emotional roller coaster with them being even more pronounced compared to the more well adjusted female. Most men just don't have the traits and characteristics necessary to be able to play a game like this, if they even would want to at all. I can't put a specific number on it, but I'd say less than 5% of men could ever be in this category and it's not of relevance in the big picture.

When you factor out men that are "players", the vast majority of men relationships, dating, etc. more or less just line up for them with no real effort. Given the right set of circumstances, many of these men would honestly be chronically single, dateless, sexless, etc., in our modern dating environment.
 
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Gamisch

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I'm repeating myself again because you aren't understanding the topic of this thread. The post is about where these other men that you see in relationships are meeting women when a large number of single young(ish) men are wading through trash with OLD, chronically single, etc.

The vast majority of men, both those that are in relationships and those that are single, are NOT players, pimps, bad boys or men that have a constant lineup of women that are never going without. Vast majority of men in relationships got lucky or just had things line up for them. If for some reason these relationships were to end it's quite likely that these men could go a VERY long time without another date, sex, etc. This is the reason why so many men put up with women's b.s, become insecure/jealous or intensely mate guard. Also, other things besides dating and sex take on a heavy focus of a man's life, career being a major one.

Adult men that are looking to land a bunch of women are going to have go out of their way and put a lot of time and effort into this. Again, most guys either don't have the time or energy for this or they lack certain personality traits to ever make it work. A lot of men would honestly become quite stressed if they were to juggle multiple women. The one common trend I've seen with "players" is that they literally are never phased by the emotional roller coaster these women are on and are able to juggle all of these women. Something else to consider, is that most of the women that fall for these "players" more often than not have a lot of internal issues going on, which points to the emotional roller coaster with them being even more pronounced compared to the more well adjusted female. Most men just don't have the traits and characteristics necessary to be able to play a game like this, if they even would want to at all. I can't put a specific number on it, but I'd say less than 5% of men could ever be in this category and it's not of relevance in the big picture.

When you factor out men that are "players", the vast majority of men relationships, dating, etc. more or less just line up for them with no real effort. Given the right set of circumstances, many of these men would honestly be chronically single, dateless, sexless, etc., in our modern dating environment.
I am also repeating myself here. I don't say every man should be a player or a badboy, i just use examples of the naturals i know.

Yes a adult man has to " go out of his way" to meet women...just like a adult man that wants a good physique has to hit the gym. Now, there are some men who DON'T mind doing that extra effort in order to get the reward they want. If you wait for life to hapoen to you you might chalk it up as luck.

If we go by your defeatist answer we can close the forum right now. Because game seduction ect are not important because "luck" would be the main factor to get women.

Lets just say that your view and my view are complete opposite. There's no wrong or right. OP wonders how all those other men find those women. The "spiritual " version (your version) is about luck . Mine is about making it happen and being rational about relationships and "love". You can't trhow around numbers like 5 % when in fact it might be 50 or 75%. You simply don't know and all you're doing is showing your own view on the topic. You are no researcher so those numbers are completely hypothetical.

The funny thing is i start to learn more and more that there are two types of men; men that make shyte happen and men that wait for shyte to happen to them.
 

pipeman84

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If we go by your defeatist answer we can close the forum right now. Because game seduction ect are not important because "luck" would be the main factor to get women.
Knowledge (the forum) is important to know how to best recognize and interact with the woman you're after when the luck puts the two of you in front of each-other. And once a relationship forms, knowledge is needed to keep it as smooth as possible. Or as Doc Love put it, to live in heaven instead of hell. ;)
Hey Doc,
Camilla and I have been together for a year now, and we love each other. We’ve been through hell and back together, and I want to share our story with you.

Hi Crane,
When you’ve been to hell and back with a girl, it means her Interest Level was not up in the 90s all along. And that tells me that you haven’t got “The System” memorized, so you don’t know what the heck you’re doing! In my program, there is no hell; there’s only heaven.
 
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