when u leave a VM and she don't call back

[SickAgain]

I think you're right Mr. Me. However, you can't just make up a set of rules for girls and expect them to follow them every single time. If time has taught us anything its that people are generally unpredictable and moody. There are a lot of girls who really don't date too often. Maybe they don't have the time or they don't want to deal with the drama to ensue. These types will not be very flirty but more reserved.

Furthermore, I think a lot of girls don't give too much interest because they feel that a guy isn't really serious and just wants some ass. Not all girls put out easily after a few encounters (depending on the guy).That's why I think that its somewhat acceptable for girls to blow off calling a guy back. They never do it unless they're desperate. But blowing off a date, well that just shows lack of tact and respect.

As long as you can convey the fact that you're a high value individual without losing self-respect, do whatever you feel like and accept the fact if it doesn't work and move on when necessary without looking back.

 

[tsmith2334]

As long as you can convey the fact that you're a high value individual without losing self-respect, do whatever you feel like and accept the fact if it doesn't work and move on when necessary without looking back.

Very well put. I say, make an effort to contact her, if and when you want to. She may be responsive, she may not. If you don't hear back from her; keep trying if you want, give up, or put it on the backburner. Who cares. SickAgain is right, just maintain your own self value in the process (which, for most confident men, isn't hard to do).

Just don't immediately "next" her because a bunch of ultra-sensetive sex deprived lunatics on a message board tell you to do so at the drop of a hat.

 

[guru1000]

If you leave a voicemail and she does not call you back , that is a clear indication of No-LOW Interest.

At this point, throw the number away.

Make no mistake; a girl with HIGH IL will ALWAYS call back. Some will even initiate the calling.

Out of the 200 minutes you wasted thinking about her call back, that was 200 minutes too many.

Do not PURSUE uninterested women. Pursue women who will chase you.

Remember,

If a girl is interested, she will make it KNOWN.

 

[Mr. Me]

Mr Me, now honestly, he didn't show that much interest either.

She gave him her number. He waited 5 days to call her. She wasn't there to take the call, and wrote him a text the day after (maybe not even an entire day) to apologize. To which he never answered. For all the girl knows he is the one who's not really interested.

But she doesn't know if he's out of town for the week, or busy taking care of his sick mom, or working on a project to meet a deadline or what, so it's not a matter of whether he calls her in the first few days following his obtaining a phone number. If it takes him a few days to call back, it wouldn't matter to her as long as SHE'S INTERESTED, she'd be pleased he called.

Don't be fooled. The sending of a text, although many will excuse it away as a modern day mode of communication, is easily used by women who don't really want to speak with you, but can't say "no" to you either, and there are plenty of those women around. So they text their excuses and stalls and BS.

Also, just because she gave him her number doesn't mean she was very interested in the first place. It may just have been something she did at the moment.

So, like I already said, it has to do with her interest - and that you can gauge by how her ongoing actions go. And in this case, they don't.

How do you think I got the sense that, though she apologetically texted saying she was going to call the very next day, that she wasn't? And I was right about that.

I think you're right Mr. Me. However, you can't just make up a set of rules for girls and expect them to follow them every single time...

Oh you sure can! Just like anything else in life, be it in any profession or military strategies or administrative duties or anything at all, you name it - Having rules or guidelines does make it simpler to deal with all these circumstances and yes it can encompass them, as it permits for observation to know when you should use different rules. Otherwise, you're like a tree leaf flapping in the breeze everytime subject to whatever happens because you're always giving the benefit of a doubt instead of recognizing patterns so as to understand how things typically work out.

That's why your post predominately makes excuses for women not calling, whereas my posts explain it.

Despite mood shifts, overall, human behavior is rather consistent, and you can figure out where things are going. It can be rather predictable.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, treat it like it's a duck. If it turns out to be a mongoose, you'll find out, and then deal with it accordingly.

Having them in place helps guide you to how to evaluate what's going on and how to respond, or not respond, in kind.

Point of fact: You know what you don't hear too much of on these forums? When a woman is very interested in a guy and wants to date him. Then she acts TOTALLY different. So different, in fact, that you don't have to wonder what she's up to. There are no questions. Everything flows. No problems! That's why nobody needs to post anything concerning those circumstances.

You guys who are dealing with women with low to no interest in you are the only ones perplexed by their behavior and therefore needing to post for answers. High interest women don't perplex the guys they like. They dare not, as a matter of fact, because they don't want to lose them!

 

[darkjedi]

She will respond civilly, but keep in mind that she didn't call you back when she said she would, correct? So, if you want to pursue people that aren't interested in you and don't keep their word and invite more of the same behavior, then you'll engage in a conversation with her when you see her and pursue it. But if you wish to set boundaries as to who gets into your life, and not waste time on low interest women, then you'll just be nice, smile, say "hey, nice to see ya! I'm gonna mingle, catch ya later" and forget about her.



You guys think everything's a test. You misinterpret low interest for tests. Women do this stuff to guys they're not that interested in, but your egos can't accept that so you see it as "I can tell she's interested, but she's testing me".

You guys think that because a woman gives you IOIs for one evening, and hands over her phone number, that she's into you. It could be that all you accomplished was that you entertained her for an evening and stroked her ego. Do you have any idea how many guys they can get to do that? They're not that interested. Their IOIs only indicate that you have a shot maybe, but you really have to see what happens next.

I look at the PUA videos rampant on YouTube, and it's all focused on getting the number as if that's the end all. If she gives you the number, then you're set, she's interested, is the implied message. You never see what happens next, when the PUA tries calling her for a date. She may have given him her number just to get rid of him. But you do read about what happens next here. And what happens often enough is that she doesn't return calls, she doesn't keep dates. Just look at all the threads about flaking!

Then these guys posting here try to figure out what to do next, as if action is needed, but the cow's already out of the barn and the doors are pretty much closed,

I'm surprised when the girls dumps you guys and runs off with another guy and you never hear from her again the rest of your life, that you don't consider that some kind of test too.

People can act like they're interested while they're picking up on things that will turn them off. That's how they do reconnaissance. I was talking to gal pal about this just last night, because she was telling me about a guy who she gave a phone number to, then decided afterwards that he was a loser and when he kept calling her, she was dodging his calls and not returning them.

Then what also fools guys is when the low interest woman agrees to meet them and does, or calls them out of the blue, and they think it's because she must be interested when it's really that she's lonely or the guy she wanted blew her off, and she goes down her list and says, "Oh! Mr. What's-His-Name! He'll take me out if I call him!"

Bottom line is: past the first night and IOIs and phone number given... she does that with lots of guys when she's out. You have to see how she treats you, *over time*, consistently. That she says yes without hesitation to your date invites, that she kisses you, touches you, is happy to be with you, that she eagerly returns your call, looks forward to being with you, over and over again. It's all that behavior she may not do with lots of guys that you watch for.

This thread caught my attention. I myself have been spending alot of time studying, researching the forums here as to why I could very rarely get a woman to call me back after getting her number, calling her and leaving a VM. I thought about all my previous encounters and summed it up. The time would have been better spent watching my dog sleep... It's very clear as to why I did not get a call back.

Mr. Me is 150% correct in this post and I would deem this the best response posted in this thread. Very, very good info here.

I'm not a Master DJ yet as I still do post frequently with questions, but I can speak from experience with this thread topic and can confirm Mr. Me's response. I've gotten many phone numbers from woman who I've never spoken to after the night I met them even after calling them 3 times (in case they are "Rules" woman). Woman give out their number sometimes knowing they will never accept your call just to get rid of you or not to come across as being rude as you have showed them a good time for the night as already mentioned. I can give you a few examples of what happened to me and one that happened to a friend of mine last weekend.

1. I met a chick at the club, we danced she bought me drinks, lots of kino. It was a good night and I did number close. When I called her next week I got the VM, which I called again later that week...VM. Ultimately never got a call back. However, this is the kicker to the story. I met her again a few months later at the same club as I was leaving. She recognized me and we talked for a bit. She apologized several times about not calling me back, and said it was due to her talking to another guy at the time...(hence not interested). She begged me to call her again and give her another chance. In fact, she told me to call her the next day and she would make sure to pick up even though she was at work. I called the next day, she picked up (what a surprise now she's interested!). Long story short, she invited me over the same day, cooked me dinner and I spent the night sexing her. Interest Level after the fact or over time is key!

2. My friend met a woman at this club. For brevity, we're just going to say she was all over him making out with him and he got the number without any problem. You're going to love this. He called her a few times and of course got the VM and no call back from her. She eventually did send him a text message saying to him that she was married and she wanted him to stop calling her. SAY WHAT!?

Too much emphasis is put on getting the phone number and not enough past getting the phone number. It does not mean anything these days as woman will give it out like it's a business card. PUA talk about getting numbers and show guys getting numbers, but I'd really like to see myself what the true conversion rate is when they make that call as Mr. Me mentioned. A woman if she is interested "WILL" call you back, no exceptions.

Mr. Me great post +1 rep when I figure out how to do it.

 

[tsmith2334]

If you leave a voicemail and she does not call you back , that is a clear indication of No-LOW Interest.

I agree that that is the case 90-95% of the time. However, a decent amount of girls (particularly those who need affirmation) will be testing you to see if you remember/ care to follow-up.

At this point, throw the number away.

Why? I'm not saying he should continue to call her three times a day, but how is he any better off by getting rid of her number? What's the point, other than to feel macho and more Don Juan than you actually are.

Make no mistake; a girl with HIGH IL will ALWAYS call back. Some will even initiate the calling.

I think most of the time they will but some girls simply don't think it is their responsibility to call back/ iniate contact. They are usually full of themselves and not worth chasing, but that's for a different thread. The point is, she may be playing hard to get. Or, she couldn't care less. Probably the latter, but you nor I knows for sure.

Out of the 200 minutes you wasted thinking about her call back, that was 200 minutes too many.

Agreed.

Do not PURSUE uninterested women. Pursue women who will chase you.

Well, you shouldn't pursue the ones who are interested at the moment but do absolutely nothing for you sexually. You should push your limits, which is the goal of most Don Juans. Pursue who you want. Don't get caught up with a woman who won't give you the time of day, but also realize most girls are intrinsically challenging. They are, after all, women. It's just the nature of the game.

Remember,

If a girl is interested, she will make it KNOWN.

Sensible and mature girls will, but there are alot who want to be chased, straight up. We're not the only ones who try to game the opposite sex, believe that.

 

[guru1000]

I agree that that is the case 90-95% of the time. However, a decent amount of girls (particularly those who need affirmation) will be testing you to see if you remember/ care to follow-up.



Why? I'm not saying he should continue to call her three times a day, but how is he any better off by getting rid of her number? What's the point, other than to feel macho and more Don Juan than you actually are.


I think most of the time they will but some girls simply don't think it is their responsibility to call back/ iniate contact. They are usually full of themselves and not worth chasing, but that's for a different thread. The point is, she may be playing hard to get. Or, she couldn't care less. Probably the latter, but you nor I knows for sure.


Agreed.



Well, you shouldn't pursue the ones who are interested at the moment but do absolutely nothing for you sexually. You should push your limits, which is the goal of most Don Juans. Pursue who you want. Don't get caught up with a woman who won't give you the time of day, but also realize most girls are intrinsically challenging. They are, after all, women. It's just the nature of the game.



Sensible and mature girls will, but there are alot who want to be chased, straight up. We're not the only ones who try to game the opposite sex, believe that.

Once you have had your fair share of women chasing you , you will unequivocally adopt this UNDERSTANDING.

Quite frankly, when you are a HOT COMMODITY, you do not need to ACKNOWLEDGE any woman unless she proves WORTHY of your time and energy.

I do not DWELL on call backs. This is because I have another 5-10 options waiting for me to call them back.

When it is your DECISION, not hers; you have now become a MAN of VALUE. This is the point of SELF WORTH and ACTUALIZATION that every MAN needs to attain.

As long as you have AFC's, you will have women who EXPECT to be CHASED. Do not supplicate your PRICETAG for any woman. PICK and CHOOSE only the worthwhile. The foundation of any WORTHWHILE CANDIDATE is HIGH IL.

Never COMPROMISE or NEGOTIATE your VALUE.

 

[tsmith2334]

Never COMPROMISE or NEGOTIATE your VALUE.

I agree. That's exactly why I think you shouldn't dwell on callbacks either. I'm not kidding when I tell you I litterally don't care. I understand that even the most interested woman does not live a life that revolves around me. Considering my sister flakes on her fiance, I've developed a good and realistic understanding that it's simply inevitable.

Where we differ however is I don't believe all hope is lost the second a concievably low-IL is displayed. Even if I have twenty girls lined up, I still don't see the harm in contacting Ms. Flake again. You know why? Because I KNOW I have high value and don't need her to confirm it. I'm no better off or worse if she calls back, so I don't feel the need to instantly "next" her and delete her phone number due to something that is her doing (i.e. the no call back). When you do that, you're letting her call the shots.

I'll stop iniating contact when I feel like I'm ready to, not because of anything she does or did. I'm careful not to wear out my welcome or overpursue a girl, but it's done at my discrection, not because shechoose to cut off me.

 

[MrNotebook]

UpDaTe...

You WON'T believe this but the girl JUST called me. I literally JUST got off the phone with her. Basically I guided the conversation with light question-asking about her job and her stay in Tennessee (out of town for work). I then asked her some questions about her liking what she does, etc. I then proceeded to ask her what a typical weekday morning is like for her and what the first thing she does when she gets up. She said the first thing is for her to eat b'fast, etc. I then kinda let her in on how I like to take my sweet old time in the morning on my way to work while everyone is part of a mad rush. I then threw in a joke about how there's always that one person getting thier briefcase stuck in the train door because of rushing...had her laughing a little. The whole talk lasted about 15 minutes as I let her know needed to finish preparing myself for work tomorrow as bedtime is approaching so took initiative and ended the conversation. I told her we'll talk soon and we said goodnight and left it at that.

There was a slight almost non-existent nervousness when I was trying to find stuff to talk about. But then I (almost immediately!!) nudged myself and I quickly reminded myself, "WTF!! --I don't give two farts what this broad thinks of me!!!"...and suddenly I started just asking her dumb shyt about herself...it just came out naturally and the nervousness disappeared. I was able to dispel any uncomfortableness between the both of us.

Her flight back to DC is tomorrow, so I'm thinking a good time for me to call would be Wed. to check that she made it back o.k.

Man, the more and more I talk to women the more I realize its about not giving a fck!!

They're absolutely stunningly beautiful, however behind that thick layer of makeup their full of SHYT.

 

[MrNotebook]

phase II

...now the phone game is kinda done at this point when she returns it will enter a new phase. I have to figure out when/how/where to take her and how to introduce the new strange idea that I don't drive (yet) as I will not have a car until May.

My last car was reposessed and I typically take the subway everywhere.

I'll have to figure out how I might phrase it...or maybe I'll rent a car for the day!!

 

[guru1000]

Where we differ however is I don't believe all hope is lost the second a concievably low-IL is displayed. Even if I have twenty girls lined up, I still don't see the harm in contacting Ms. Flake again. You know why? Because I KNOW I have high value and don't need her to confirm it. I'm no better off or worse if she calls back, so I don't feel the need to instantly "next" her and delete her phone number due to something that is her doing (i.e. the no call back). When you do that, you're letting her call the shots.

I'll stop iniating contact when I feel like I'm ready to, not because of anything she does or did. I'm careful not to wear out my welcome or overpursue a girl, but it's done at my discrection, not because shechoose to cut off me.

Thats the difference that makes the difference. There is a lack of CONTROL in HOPING, therefore I do not HOPE.

The harm in contacting Ms.Flake is you give her the SIGNIFICANCE of your time when she has not EARNED it. Be SELECTIVE of who EARNS your PRECIOUS time and energy.

By withholding your PRECIOUS time from a girl who has not earned it does not mean you are seeking her validation. It means your time is VALUABLE and you are very SELECTIVE of where to SPEND it.

At the end of the day if she CHOSE to cut you off, that is her CHOICE, not yours. Putting careful consideration of where to expend your time is your CHOICE.

Pursue the worthwhile who pursue you.

 

[Vice]

So I'm scrolling down this runway-worthy topic, and I'd just like to throw this out there:

I never leave voicemail, I just try calling one more time, and then wait a day or two and try again

 

[DonJuan11]

"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." ~Plato

Awesome quote dude.

 

[Rook]

<Subscription expired>

 

[betterthandead]

They never do. It's part of the game. I never leave VM unless it's necessary.

 

[Mr. Me]

Don't lose sight of the fact that you're still dealing with a low interest woman. Just because she called now doesn't negate that yesterday she didn't when she said she would. You have to keep it ALL in mind. This is why I say you have to see how it pans out and how a woman acts consistently.

Though it's good that you kept the call short, I think you really need to brush up on what to talk about, because if you're going to talk about what she ate for breakfast, you're going to bore the hell out of people. And if she's low interest, you're not raising her interest by conversing about mundane topics.

It's like this guy I overheard trying to hit on a girl the other night as I walked by. Caught him saying, "So... you're from Hoboken?" - and she walked away from him.

"WTF!! --I don't give two farts what this broad thinks of me!!!"

I understand that you mean insofar as not being self conscious, but you do care what she and others think about you. You still have to watch your mouth, your manners and the way you come across or risk turning people off. It's like the old sad joke about the guy who gets killed because he got into a senseless fight with someone, and his epitaph reads, "But I was right!"

Now, regarding her specifically... what's the deal? She's coming back home by next Wednesday and you didn't take the opportunity during the call to set up a date for a few days after that? It sounds like you didn't, so nothing was accomplished with the call. You're still hanging. You're still in the same place you were before. That just makes the phone call fluff.

You see, you have to take the lead and then to have them put their money where their mouth is by getting the date now. She's a low interest woman and you have to put her to the acid test.

 

[MrNotebook]

the first call

"...what she eat for breakfast"

I didn't ask her what she eat for breakfast, I asked her what the first thing she does in the morning, to which she eluded to making bfast.

She's coming back home by next Wednesday and you didn't take the opportunity during the call to set up a date for a few days after that? It sounds like you didn't, so...

Actually she comes back today. I guess in my mind I'm so tied up into thinking I needed to act like a challenge and not interested and so forth. I guess part of me feared getting rejected so I avoided asking. I guess I'll do it for the next phone call. I figured the first phone call was just a light getting-to-know-you chat with no strings.

Don't you think by me asking her to go out on the first phone convo would've transmitted desperation or that I'm moving too quickly? I mean I thought I'm supposed to be a challenge here. It seems like a contradiction to me...PU theory states in order to elicit high IL you have to "be a challenge", however I'm now being told to "ask" her out which (to me) shows that she can have me if she wants. I just don't get it.

I don't quite understand this challenge balance I need to strike. Despite all this I get the feeling so far things are unfolding normally with her.

 

[Mr. Me]

"I didn't ask her what she eat for breakfast"

Why are you crediting me with a typo I didn't make? That's just weird.

Okay, so you didn't ask her what she ate, you just asked her what her routine is in the morning. Point is: it's a mundane topic. They encounter these types of conversations most of the time, so I'm saying it's better to avoid that so as not to come off like every other dude that they find typical and boring. The key is to be engaging and entertaining, you want to provoke fun feelings in her. Girls just wanna have fun, you know.

I don't quite understand this challenge balance I need to strike.

Right. Every now and then, the guy has to take an initiative. He has to approach, right? He has to ask for the number, right? He has to make the first call, correct? He has to ask her out, true?

Now, it's how you go about all that that can keep you as a challenge. For example, when you approach, you don't fawn all over heaping compliments and buying her drinks, or say things like "Am I your type? Do you like me?", right?

When you ask for the number, you don't beg "Can I have your number?", "Would you like to go out sometime?", "I'll call you!"

When you get the number, you don't call later that night or the next day. You take your time and call a few days later when you're relaxed and you have a few moments and you've put together what you'd like to do insofar as the date when and where's.

When you call, you don't try to keep her on the phone out of your desire for her companionship, or just to say nothing, you don't call all the time or call just to see what's up. You call to chit chat and laugh for just a few minutes and get the date. You don't dismiss your date ideas to accommodate hers. And then you don't speak to her again until you see her.

And you don't really ask for a date, instead, you invite her out. So instead of "Would you like to go listen to a band next Tuesday?" it's more direct to say, "There's this great band I'm going to go hear next Tuesday. I think you'd like them. Why don't you join me?"

That's how you can remain a challenge while still advancing things along. You're doing what man ought to be doing, after all, that is, taking the initiative.

I figured the first phone call was just a light getting-to-know-you chat with no strings.

Save the getting-to-know-you for your face to face date encounters.

 

[Luke Skywalker]

Okay, so you didn't ask her what she ate, you just asked her what her routine is in the morning. Point is: it's a mundane topic. They encounter these types of conversations most of the time, so I'm saying it's better to avoid that so as not to come off like every other dude that they find typical and boring. The key is to be engaging and entertaining, you want to provoke fun feelings in her. Girls just wanna have fun, you know.

I don't think a question about what someone does in the morning as a routine is a question every guy is asking her though. If it's the weather, what she does for a living/school, what town she's from, sounds more like that. This question sounds a bit nosey and obstrusive - why would he want to know what she does in the morning?

Right. Every now and then, the guy has to take an initiative. He has to approach, right? He has to ask for the number, right? He has to make the first call, correct? He has to ask her out, true?

Now, it's how you go about all that that can keep you as a challenge. For example, when you approach, you don't fawn all over heaping compliments and buying her drinks, or say things like "Am I your type? Do you like me?", right?

But the fact of approaching her is just the same - why are you approaching her? Unless you just enjoy approaching people in general and are a social person. Then what would you say then? Approach other people around her first you are really not interested in, then approach her so you'll sort of camaflauge that approach and therefore be a challenge.

When you ask for the number, you don't beg "Can I have your number?", "Would you like to go out sometime?", "I'll call you!"

How about: "Can I call you sometime?"

And you don't really ask for a date, instead, you invite her out. So instead of "Would you like to go listen to a band next Tuesday?" it's more direct to say, "There's this great band I'm going to go hear next Tuesday. I think you'd like them. Why don't you join me?"

Yeah, but don't you look pathetic going to the band BY YOURSELF if she didn't accompany you. It almost looks like you have no life. It's like saying "I have nobody to go with me because I have no life, could you keep me company for this event so I can feel like I have someone?" How is that being a challenge?

Now, if you did have someone to go with, why would you need to ask her or make some sort of set-up where you are going with your friends and tagging her along?

That's how you can remain a challenge while still advancing things along. You're doing what man ought to be doing, after all, that is, taking the initiative.

As long as you are not flogging a dead horse.

 

[Mr. Me]

I don't think a question about what someone does in the morning as a routine is a question every guy is asking her though

The point is not about the specific question asked but that the topic in general is mundane.

Yeah, but don't you look pathetic going to the band BY YOURSELF

No sir. Not unless you attach some stigma to doing things independently.

In fact, if anything, it's strong because you don't need anyone else to go do something. It signals that you're living your life not dependent on any one else.

But the fact of approaching her is just the same - why are you approaching her? Unless you just enjoy approaching people in general and are a social person. Then what would you say then? Approach other people around her first you are really not interested in, then approach her so you'll sort of camouflage that approach and therefore be a challenge.

You're joking, right?

How about: "Can I call you sometime?"

Oh, you are joking!