When to do shoulders?
- Thread starter C00L
- Start date
ill say it again, a 300lb bench press does not mean a huge chest because benching is easy to cheat on. So you could have your delts and tris doing most of the work, not giving ur chest any stimulation, thus there is no growth.
On tricep dips its HARD to cheat, i mean u have to be trying to cheat to fvck up that exercise.
I never said weight progression doesnt equal mass you dumb bastard. I cited a specific exercise (bench press) and a specific weight and said that just because you can push that number doesnt mean you have a huge chest.
Now if you can comprehend that you will realize that i am right and everything you said is moot because it was never disputed to begin with.
All i asked was where a good place to fit my shoulders would be and everyone sh1ts on my split tellin me doing an arms only day is fvcking gay and all this bullsh1t when ive personally experienced more gains this way then when i did a 3 day back/bi-chest/tri type split like your suggesting.
I take it back i dont want your c0cksucking advice. You are elitist douchebags.
On tricep dips its HARD to cheat, i mean u have to be trying to cheat to fvck up that exercise.
I never said weight progression doesnt equal mass you dumb bastard. I cited a specific exercise (bench press) and a specific weight and said that just because you can push that number doesnt mean you have a huge chest.
Now if you can comprehend that you will realize that i am right and everything you said is moot because it was never disputed to begin with.
All i asked was where a good place to fit my shoulders would be and everyone sh1ts on my split tellin me doing an arms only day is fvcking gay and all this bullsh1t when ive personally experienced more gains this way then when i did a 3 day back/bi-chest/tri type split like your suggesting.
I take it back i dont want your c0cksucking advice. You are elitist douchebags.
MetalFortress
Master Don Juan
You said it already, c00l. Stop trying to backtrack.
AmazingTricks
Don Juan
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do your pushing muscles one day.
do your pulling muscles the other.
shoulders push.
simple
do your pulling muscles the other.
shoulders push.
simple
Basics
Focus on basics. If you're starting out, don't bother with arms (more like don't, ever, unless you're ready to hit the beach for showoff
. They're a waste of time. Do compound exercises. Only professional Bodybuilders need fancy crap like french presses etc.
Remember, dumbbell exercises (where applicable) are superior, you can't do very heavy weights, but for a drug free/non-competing person, it's important to build muscle, not the ego. Plus, anyone eventually can work their way up to the 100-120lb dumbbells on many exercises. Now THAT is real strength.
Just do reg/inc/dec bench (dumbbell is superior) + flies and dips for chest/tris
Deads/pulls/rows (weighted when the time comes) for back and biceps
Shoulders should have their own day. Focus on basic dumbbell (standing/seated) presses, and lighter raises at various angles
Then squats/leg presses and calf raises.
Don't waste time on arms. Chances are those not mesomorphs (individual that builds muscle easily) just waste time and recovery doing that.
I'd suggest doing Chest (already involves shoulders), Legs, Shoulders, then back (do when chest has recovered),.
It's important to give enough time for recovery for each bodypart (at least 1 day in between) and never do two bodyparts on the same day, it won't allow the intensity and proper overload.
It's that simple. Follow this routine and you'll be diesel powered- drug free- within a few years.
SuperMan
Focus on basics. If you're starting out, don't bother with arms (more like don't, ever, unless you're ready to hit the beach for showoff
. They're a waste of time. Do compound exercises. Only professional Bodybuilders need fancy crap like french presses etc.Remember, dumbbell exercises (where applicable) are superior, you can't do very heavy weights, but for a drug free/non-competing person, it's important to build muscle, not the ego. Plus, anyone eventually can work their way up to the 100-120lb dumbbells on many exercises. Now THAT is real strength.
Just do reg/inc/dec bench (dumbbell is superior) + flies and dips for chest/tris
Deads/pulls/rows (weighted when the time comes) for back and biceps
Shoulders should have their own day. Focus on basic dumbbell (standing/seated) presses, and lighter raises at various angles
Then squats/leg presses and calf raises.
Don't waste time on arms. Chances are those not mesomorphs (individual that builds muscle easily) just waste time and recovery doing that.
I'd suggest doing Chest (already involves shoulders), Legs, Shoulders, then back (do when chest has recovered),.
It's important to give enough time for recovery for each bodypart (at least 1 day in between) and never do two bodyparts on the same day, it won't allow the intensity and proper overload.
It's that simple. Follow this routine and you'll be diesel powered- drug free- within a few years.
SuperMan
I dont feel the need to justify myself but i do think i need to clear up a few things.
i will be more open to your input.i felt like i was being attacked. i meant what i was saying but it was just coming out wrong, weight progression doesnt ALWAYS mean full development, thats why i cited bench press specifically because many guys can push big numbers but their chests still suck.
Anyway here is my routine for your critique.
Monday - chest
Incline DB press
Flat Db press
flat db flys
finish off with some light cable x overs to get the blood pumpin thru
Tuesday - Back
Deadlift
T bar rows
Pullups/chins
Wed - off
Thursday - Arms
BB curl
Cable curl
weighted dips
pushdowns
Friday - Legs
Squats
lunges
calf raises
Previously i was just putting shoulders wherever i felt like, sometimes a leg day, sometimes with arms. etc. I am going to do them on chest day now.
I also believe that no muscle should be ignored. For full stimulation each muscle needs to be trained right along with the big heavy compounds which you can see i do.
thats simply my own training philosophy and what ive experienced personally. I feel like strengthening my biceps and triceps seperately has helped my other lifts.
i will be more open to your input.i felt like i was being attacked. i meant what i was saying but it was just coming out wrong, weight progression doesnt ALWAYS mean full development, thats why i cited bench press specifically because many guys can push big numbers but their chests still suck.
Anyway here is my routine for your critique.
Monday - chest
Incline DB press
Flat Db press
flat db flys
finish off with some light cable x overs to get the blood pumpin thru
Tuesday - Back
Deadlift
T bar rows
Pullups/chins
Wed - off
Thursday - Arms
BB curl
Cable curl
weighted dips
pushdowns
Friday - Legs
Squats
lunges
calf raises
Previously i was just putting shoulders wherever i felt like, sometimes a leg day, sometimes with arms. etc. I am going to do them on chest day now.
I also believe that no muscle should be ignored. For full stimulation each muscle needs to be trained right along with the big heavy compounds which you can see i do.
thats simply my own training philosophy and what ive experienced personally. I feel like strengthening my biceps and triceps seperately has helped my other lifts.
Warboss Alex
Master Don Juan
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2005
- Messages
- 4,175
- Reaction score
- 30
Ever seen a superheavy powerlifter diet down for a bodybuilding show? They blow the opposition away, being thicker and more developed than their bbing counterparts, and yet typical powerlifting routines 'ignore' a lot of muscles.. eg you won't find lateral raises in a powerlifting program (in my experience), so many bbers (wrongly in my opinion) swear by them and yet have you ever seen a champion powerlifter with small delts?
But we can disagree.
Stick with what you're doing if it's working for you. That's all anyone should need to know!
MetalFortress
Master Don Juan
In addition to what Warboss posted, read this link:
http://www.midwestbarbell.com/totalelite/index.php?showtopic=1110&st=0&p=15343&
This is what happens when a 320 pound powerlifter diets down to bodybuilder-levels of bodyfat. Next time you think that heavy lifting does not lead to extreme size gain, view this.
http://intensemuscle.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6391&d=1121916111
^This is what happens when powerlifter Andy Fiedler decides to ruin the bodybuilders' fun by dieting down for the Mr. Minnesota show. He won it, obviously.
http://intensemuscle.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6392&d=1121916318
^More Andy Fiedler.
And let's not forget our favorite bodybuilder-who-trains-like-a-powerlifter...
http://intensemuscle.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5113&d=1112542856
Big Ronnie Coleman.
http://www.midwestbarbell.com/totalelite/index.php?showtopic=1110&st=0&p=15343&
This is what happens when a 320 pound powerlifter diets down to bodybuilder-levels of bodyfat. Next time you think that heavy lifting does not lead to extreme size gain, view this.
http://intensemuscle.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6391&d=1121916111
^This is what happens when powerlifter Andy Fiedler decides to ruin the bodybuilders' fun by dieting down for the Mr. Minnesota show. He won it, obviously.
http://intensemuscle.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6392&d=1121916318
^More Andy Fiedler.
And let's not forget our favorite bodybuilder-who-trains-like-a-powerlifter...
http://intensemuscle.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5113&d=1112542856
Big Ronnie Coleman.
vanwilder
Senior Don Juan
"Putting triceps after chest and shoulders allows the best weight progression. If you can't progress, you aren't doing it right. Progress isn't measured by how much pump you get or how much you isolate the muscle."
once again think waht you want to think, but for myself this doesnt work, so therefore i have arms on its own day because i gained the best off of that.
once again think waht you want to think, but for myself this doesnt work, so therefore i have arms on its own day because i gained the best off of that.