When the DRAFT comes, are you going to go where they tell you?

[Bible_Belt]

Malarky. Stop loss hasn't been used since the invasion. Inactive reservists don't get called for combat. Every inactive reservist to get called back has been support roles.

Every job in Iraq is "combat," at least in that you get shot at. Those reservist guys signed up for a one weekend a month gig... and got hosed. af in the reserves was always telling me how sweet of a deal he had, it was basically a weekend beer party every month in the woods. Then after 9/11 he got deployed 500 miles away to train troops for Iraq. Last I checked, he had been gone for years. He missed at least the first three years of his son's high school experience.

"Stop Loss" is the policy of denying the typical option of serving the latter end of one's contract in the reserves and it continues today.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop-loss_policy
The United States Department of Defense now has begun a program to replace the stop-loss, as it is "too controversial". The new program, known as Involuntary Extension, is a circumvention of stop-loss, and simply changes the ETS [end time service] date on a soldier's account.

The Army claims that enlisted soldiers facing stop loss can now voluntarily separate from the United States Army by request, under provision 3-12, but this is deceptive because only after they complete an involuntary deployment of twelve to fifteen months and 90 days "stabilization time" can they apply.

Iraq Veterans Against the War, an activist organization of former and current service members, in solidarity with former Specialist and Iraq vet Evan Knappenberger, has announced a national "Stop the Stop-Loss" campaign at a recent press conference where they were holding a week-long vigil in a tower erected on the National Mall in Washington, D.C.

 

[Derek Flint]

So much ignorance on this thread, so little time to argue against it.

Some of you guys are really, really lost.

Do you guys even know what would be involved in re-instating the draft?

Hint: Bush can't do it by himself, nor could any President.

Nor would the military want a draft. The military is too specialized these days.

You can't just run guys thru boot camp and send them in like the old days.

Again, it must be election season with this BS Draft talk.

I will bet anyone here. Anyone $1000.00 that there will be no draft.

Not now, not ever, barring a full-out invasion of the US

This is why political discussions are banned on this forum - it brings out the idiots.

 

[Derek Flint]

I would never go to war and invade a poor country such as Iraq. WTF did they ever do to us. The united states, israel and england are the biggest terrorist nations in the world. That being said there is no other place I would rather live than in the united states. (with the exception of a few western european nations, canada or australia.

And I would like to say anyone who enlists in the armed forces needs there head checked. If your a smart educated person than why the fvck would you go to the army. So you can be a security guard.

Yeah, they're flying jetliners into hi-rises occupied by thousands of innocent Men, Women and Children and bombing buses and nightclubs and hijacking jets and crashing them while yelling "Allah Akbar"

And you just spit on several of my friends who have made a career out of the military, and are smarter than you will ever be, especially spewing the idiocy you are on this thread.

Go tell my Airborne Ranger buddy, who has a Purple Heart and rescued several of his friends that he needs his "head checked"

He would tie your pathetic puzzy ass up into a pretzel and then kick it down the street.

It's people like him laying their lives down so idiots like you can spew your idiotic drivel. **** You. You don't have a ****ing clue about the world.

 

[ketostix]

I think going into Iraq, instead of focusing on Afghanistan, was a big mistake. It was based on faulty assumptions and probably a personal vendetta against Saddam. Now we have the Shiites and Iran running Iraq and this is worse than Saddam and the Sunni's, the baathist party and basically leaving well enough alone. Sure for Iraqi's saddam was not the best dictator but he was better for the US than what we got now. I think Iraq was basically "Bush's War".

Having said all of that I think it's outrageous how some people here demonize America and even worse cast aspersions on our military and troops. Whether we should have ever went into Iraq or whether we should stay there is another question. But the truth is if the Iraqis would quite killing each other, assinating political rivals and lay down their arms, thee're be no violence in Iraq. The corrupt government there is taking all the aid money we pour in there and lining their pockets with it. All the current violence in Iraq is on the people there, not the US.

 

[Teflon_Mcgee]

Every job in Iraq is "combat," at least in that you get shot at. Those reservist guys signed up for a one weekend a month gig... and got hosed. af in the reserves was always telling me how sweet of a deal he had, it was basically a weekend beer party every month in the woods. Then after 9/11 he got deployed 500 miles away to train troops for Iraq. Last I checked, he had been gone for years. He missed at least the first three years of his son's high school experience.

"Stop Loss" is the policy of denying the typical option of serving the latter end of one's contract in the reserves and it continues today.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop-loss_policy
The United States Department of Defense now has begun a program to replace the stop-loss, as it is "too controversial". The new program, known as Involuntary Extension, is a circumvention of stop-loss, and simply changes the ETS [end time service] date on a soldier's account.

The Army claims that enlisted soldiers facing stop loss can now voluntarily separate from the United States Army by request, under provision 3-12, but this is deceptive because only after they complete an involuntary deployment of twelve to fifteen months and 90 days "stabilization time" can they apply.

Iraq Veterans Against the War, an activist organization of former and current service members, in solidarity with former Specialist and Iraq vet Evan Knappenberger, has announced a national "Stop the Stop-Loss" campaign at a recent press conference where they were holding a week-long vigil in a tower erected on the National Mall in Washington, D.C.

As a two tour combat vet, I can say that even combat troops can go along time without getting shot at. Support roles are cush. That doesn't mean they aren't dangerous, but life inside the wire is a good one. And unless you're in some sort of transportation role, then you really don't leave the FOB.

Obviously field medics, while a support role, have it as bad as the grunts.


Stop-loss and involuntary extensions have always been the same thing.
When stop loss is enacted then you usually have the option of a voluntary extension with some sort of benifit (not always), and then if there is still a need involuntary extension will ensue.

Contracts are not extended. A contract is for eight years. It's typically split between 4 or 6 years active duty and the remainder in the IRR. During that eight years the armed forces can do with you what they wish as per the contract one signs.

And it takes alot to extend an EAS or ETS. It's not something that some colonel just does because he's running low on troops. Even then, while it sucks for some individuals, well, like they say, you signed the mother fvcking contract.

 

[spesmilitis]

So much ignorance on this thread, so little time to argue against it.Some of you guys are really, really lost. Do you guys even know what would be involved in re-instating the draft?
Hint: Bush can't do it by himself, nor could any President. Nor would the military want a draft. The military is too specialized these days.

You can't just run guys thru boot camp and send them in like the old days. Again, it must be election season with this BS Draft talk. I will bet anyone here. Anyone $1000.00 that there will be no draft.
Not now, not ever, barring a full-out invasion of the US.

This is why political discussions are banned on this forum - it brings out the idiots.

How are we going to get enough troops to fight Iraq and Iran at the same time?

PS: let me know if you would like some advice on writing in paragraphs.

 

[Last Man Standing]

No war for Israel!!!! Their plan is to splinter the Arab/Persian Nations into small pieces to overtake them and their resources - total control!

They are psychopaths killing innocent people... http://bravenewfilms.org/blog/13664-blackwater-road-massacre

BY WAY OF DECEPTION, THOU SHALT DO WAR! (ISRAEL MOSSAD MOTTO)

 

[SmoothTalker]

In all honesty, how are you not banned yet? So much hatred.

 

[Last Man Standing]

In all honesty, how are you not banned yet? So much hatred.

I love humanity and you love a lie and death!! Who is the hater?

 

[jonwon]

I love humanity and you love a lie and death!! Who is the hater?

Try to not let them bother your LMS.

It seems 'has future spartan brilliantly put it' there nothing but cowards.

Anyway, i am sure in time these blood lust freaks, who advocate the death of innocent sheep farmers, kids and young women and husbands, the raping of a nation for profit, will in time, when the DRAFT does come in, which in all fairness it is looking like it will more then it wont.

I am sure they can take arms and go join the fray to slaughter innocent people for the sake of some money hungry retard and there band of monkeys.

So what if i spit on stupid mindless grunts that dont mind taking orders to kill innocent poeple over a lie! not to worry though, i guess when they signed up and was bombarded with the properganda they have to endure you cant really blame em!

Iraq war was a LIE, you want me to respect soldiers that went there?
This is another vietnam, your own government does not respect the soilders, to put them in the situation for there own evil agenda!

I will respect them when they throw down there arms and state NO MORE!

Like some already have.

Its a known fact some of these soilders love the thrill of the kill, hell a guy i know whos brother is at these places, said he cant wait to go out on the front lines cos he was bored, great lets go slaughter people in the name of 'freedom' cos where bored.

This wont change, too many sheeple following the greed of a select few.

Who is to truly blame?

if you dont like what i put, here is a big fat FU!

enjoy your draft, there is a possibility it will come in, i am sure you can all take your prejudices out with force, wont that be nice.

I would rather be shot then go kill other people due to some LIE, especially considering these ******* are only making things worse anyway.

 

[Teflon_Mcgee]

Try to not let them bother your LMS.

It seems 'has future spartan brilliantly put it' there nothing but cowards.

Anyway, i am sure in time these blood lust freaks, who advocate the death of innocent sheep farmers, kids and young women and husbands, the raping of a nation for profit, will in time, when the DRAFT does come in, which in all fairness it is looking like it will more then it wont.

I am sure they can take arms and go join the fray to slaughter innocent people for the sake of some money hungry retard and there band of monkeys.

So what if i spit on stupid mindless grunts that dont mind taking orders to kill innocent poeple over a lie! not to worry though, i guess when they signed up and was bombarded with the properganda they have to endure you cant really blame em!

Iraq war was a LIE, you want me to respect soldiers that went there?
This is another vietnam, your own government does not respect the soilders, to put them in the situation for there own evil agenda!

I will respect them when they throw down there arms and state NO MORE!

Like some already have.

Its a known fact some of these soilders love the thrill of the kill, hell a guy i know whos brother is at these places, said he cant wait to go out on the front lines cos he was bored, great lets go slaughter people in the name of 'freedom' cos where bored.

This wont change, too many sheeple following the greed of a select few.

Who is to truly blame?

if you dont like what i put, here is a big fat FU!

enjoy your draft, there is a possibility it will come in, i am sure you can all take your prejudices out with force, wont that be nice.

I would rather be shot then go kill other people due to some LIE, especially considering these ******* are only making things worse anyway.

Have you seen any of this first hand?

There have been a few murders commited and those people were prosecuted and punished fully. That's maybe 3 or 4 guys out of 186,000 serving.

Guess what, I guarantee there are murdered, rapists, and theifs in the piece corps, police, post office, school system, PETA, and every other organization.

Nobody kills innocent men, women, or children.

Let me ask you this...what have you ever done?

Have you ever rebuilt a school? Have you ever fed hungry people? Have you ever helped dig out a village after a tsunami that killed 25000 people? Have a ever worked 20 hour days to make sure people have basic supplies to live? Have you ever held and fed a hungry baby in Arica or painted the orphanage that houses it?

These are things I did as a "stupid grunt." These are things the military do everyday.

You know how many inncoent people I killed? How about how many inncoent people we saved. How about the flowers I got while standing post as little kids wanted to show their appreciation on their way to a school that we built for them. What about the smile on their face as we give up our care packages so they can taste candy or play with a flashlight.

Do you have any idea how much bread I have broken and tea I have drank with these innocent people you seem to think we just kill at will?

I feel sorry for you. I can't get mad.
You hate out of ignorance or maybe guilt. You speak ill of something you know nothing about and belittle real men who are actually out there making a difference in the world.

What difference have you ever made?

 

[jonwon]

Have you seen any of this first hand?

There have been a few murders commited and those people were prosecuted and punished fully. That's maybe 3 or 4 guys out of 186,000 serving.

Guess what, I guarantee there are murdered, rapists, and theifs in the piece corps, police, post office, school system, PETA, and every other organization.

Nobody kills innocent men, women, or children.

Let me ask you this...what have you ever done?

Have you ever rebuilt a school? Have you ever fed hungry people? Have you ever helped dig out a village after a tsunami that killed 25000 people? Have a ever worked 20 hour days to make sure people have basic supplies to live? Have you ever held and fed a hungry baby in Arica or painted the orphanage that houses it?

These are things I did as a "stupid grunt." These are things the military do everyday.

You know how many inncoent people I killed? How about how many inncoent people we saved. How about the flowers I got while standing post as little kids wanted to show their appreciation on their way to a school that we built for them. What about the smile on their face as we give up our care packages so they can taste candy or play with a flashlight.

Do you have any idea how much bread I have broken and tea I have drank with these innocent people you seem to think we just kill at will?

I feel sorry for you. I can't get mad.
You hate out of ignorance or maybe guilt. You speak ill of something you know nothing about and belittle real men who are actually out there making a difference in the world.

What difference have you ever made?

get mad, do you think i would give a shi*, what you gonna do? Have a hissy on the forum?

Dont compare helping people in need to doing the bidding of a corrupt government with an agenda for power, your reality is firmly and totally messed up.

how can you even compare the two?

Your just bleating like the good little sheep you are.

'A difference in the world', give me a break, if you think its commendable to be some in-doctrine fool who jumps when he’s told to jump and go kill no questions asked innocent people due to a LIE, I would rather sit on my back crack and do sweet FA!

get a reality check.

Iraq war was a 'lie', another means to manipulate the mass agenda for fascist control which is slowly being wheeled in and you 'grunts' (glory to the men and women sacrificing themselves due to some fascist state controller), stand by it and have the fuc*ing nerve to state the rest who question the moral implication on BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS, with some guilt trip, FU!

And don’t insult my intelligence by stating I would simply make such a questionable post based on ignorance, I know the facts and have seen THE REAL MEDIA on poor innocent people getting there lives blown apart for the sake of a LIE, INCLUDING the many soldiers that come back with arms and legs blown off that are left to rot!

You paint a rosy picture, the rose still in this situation needs a great dose of manure to grow in, hence it still stinks, don’t try to make me feel guilt that GRUNTS are shooting poor people due to oppression, it wont work, so try harder, I don’t care how many plant pots you fill for poor people or bridges that are built.

The fact remains, killing innocent poor people over a LIE should never ever be justified, EVER!

few murders committed, are you F***** S****ing me? the fact soldiers are in there in the first place means EVERY FUC*ING ONE IS A MURDER! but not by your state laws.

And don’t give me shi8 about potential for BAD people in any situation, these people usually have to answer for there crimes, they don’t justify it by stating they built a bridge for some other poor sheep farmer.

Don’t even dare compare the two!

I am sickened how easy it is to manipulate the average mind in the western sphere and breed ignorance and mass genocide in the name of propaganda.

I will state this if America and the UK (fascist state too), where not even half as influential in the global world, you would have had your as* slapped along time ago.

Get mad, I would never ever join the Armed forces, not now!
I think anyone signing up for this stuff really and truly is too dumb to see the true agenda of the world!

YOU CAN NOT JUSTIFY KILLING ANYONE AND I MEAN ANYONE IN IRAQ, don’t tell me this is not murder, especially when I see films of young girls and boys robbed of there life’s, due to being casualties of a war that should never have been.

How the fuci* can you even stand by and justify YOURSELF?

I would take a gun and defend myself and my family and day of the week on something I could believe in but I will NEVER BE A PUPPET for lies and corruption, NEVER!

The respect for the armed forces took a MASSIVE blow when IRAQ was invaded for the sake of political power and you KNOW it, so don’t give me the tosh and try to presume you don’t know what’s going on, you can read it in most of the soldiers faces 'the look of wtf am I doing here, guess it don’t matter, what's my next order', 'the same with Vietnam war'.

I have never understood why people sign up to go to wars.

Yes I have mates who have been to war, I have mates who have served when the shi* has hit the fan and it messed them up, one of my best friends signed up for the BS he was fed by the armed forces, two years later, he watched his mate get his head blown off!

He left the army shortly after and now he’s a shell of his former self.

What are you going to state next, ethical cleansing?

I dont expect you to understand, your blind ignorance and your 'fear' and built in prejudices for other cultures and people, do all the 'understanding' that needs to be done 'to get the job done' just dont expect a pat on the back from me, feeling good now about defending your country? get used to it, when this shi* is exposed you will question it yourself one day, i 100% GUARANTEE that much!

I suppose it puts food on the table, is a classic quote i heard recently! Faced with that, its hard to even waste time even confronting the belief structure around the sheeple.

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2005/01/cominghome-8.html

educate yourself's on the other side of the great properganda divide.

 

[D!ck Ramsey]

If the draft comes, I would be ready to fight no matter what. Perhaps its blind patriotism, but the way I see it, if you don't like how this country is run, you are always free to leave (or start a real revolution)

I dont always agree with our government but I love this country and would defend it with my life.

 

[Ace of Flames]

I think its important to point out, that's its not the country we all hate, its the people who run it.

 

[Teflon_Mcgee]

Childrens Do Learn!


You do know that your country turned Iraq from a 2nd world country into a 3rd world one. Typical American ignorance. I'm pretty sure that kid would appreciate having his country back to the way it was then a piece of candy.

That's funny. Because for the first few years of the war, as American troops, we couldn't go anywhere without being mobbed by people who wanted to show appreciation and/or join us. You have no idea the oppression the Iraqi people faced in Saddam's regime until you've seen it first hand.

Granted I haven't been over in the last year, but I think it's safe to say nobody wants the country to go back to the way it was.

Does the situation suck now? Yes. Nobody disagrees about that. But atleast there is hope for change unlike when Saddam was in charge.

BTW, what source considered Iraq a 2nd world country? Have you seen the rural area (and pretty much every are that's not bagdad) of the country? Trust me, I've been from the souther border, to the eastern border, to western border, to 500 miles into northern Iraq, and for the most part the infrastructure and lifestyle has gotten no worse since before the attack on Saddam's army.

And Jonwon, whatever floats your boat, man.

 

[Silvertip]

Ah, I should've been more specific. What I meant was that the draft won't be reinstated under bush because that would damage the republicans chance at getting the whitehouse.

All the more reason for the DEMOCRATIC-controlled Congress to push for reinstatement.

 

[mpimpin]

I knew I should have looked at this days ago...

Sorry guys I have to shut down the political threads.
Lets not have anyone throw a fit this time