When refusing to be manipulated gets you nexted.

[Zimbabwe]

This has happened to me a lot. Classic pua wisdom says women like men that have a spine and don’t get taken advantage of or refuse to be mistreated.
And yet, every time I do this a woman uses it as an excuse to next me.

case in point, I have been sleeping with a new girl. We’ve had sex 3 times and she has been texting me like crazy and all the good things.

we had plans to meet to fvck again tomorrow after she is moved into her new place .

however, this weekend she texted me asking if I would help her move. Seeing as how we only had sex 3 times, I didn’t feel right about that. So I told her I’d have to pass.

then magically today when I text to ask if we are still on for tomorrow she claims her landlord is fixing her bathroom tomorrow.


so, my frustration is that even if you do have a spine and don’t get manipulated by the woman and stand firm to your boundaries, a woman will still (and maybe more so) pass you up.

that’s my frustration.

There isn't a single woman on the planet worth giving up your dignity over, if you get manipulated by her what do you stand to gain? Sure you might get some sex still but is it worth it?

Plenty of women out there that aren't trash like this one.

 

[bat soup]

This has happened to me a lot. Classic pua wisdom says women like men that have a spine and don’t get taken advantage of or refuse to be mistreated.
And yet, every time I do this a woman uses it as an excuse to next me.

case in point, I have been sleeping with a new girl. We’ve had sex 3 times and she has been texting me like crazy and all the good things.

we had plans to meet to fvck again tomorrow after she is moved into her new place .

however, this weekend she texted me asking if I would help her move. Seeing as how we only had sex 3 times, I didn’t feel right about that. So I told her I’d have to pass.

then magically today when I text to ask if we are still on for tomorrow she claims her landlord is fixing her bathroom tomorrow.


so, my frustration is that even if you do have a spine and don’t get manipulated by the woman and stand firm to your boundaries, a woman will still (and maybe more so) pass you up.

that’s my frustration.

You should do what women do and give her an excuse:
"I'd absolutely love to help move your fridge whilst you play on your phone, but unfortunately I have to work until late tomorrow"

 

[Jake_Gyllenhaal69]

So you didn’t want to help her move because she had only had sex with you three times? Moving sucks and I wouldn’t have done it either tbh, but your reason for decline makes you sound like a sociopath. She made a good move netting your behind lol. I would recommend therapy too.

 

[Bokanovsky]

ok but helping a stranger move?Just because you had sex a few times? That’s not ok. Not at all. She’s not my wife. And I don’t appreciate being used for favors. God forbid that was the only reason she was sleeping with me

Perhaps she sees you as more than a stranger at this point? I don’t know, it’s hard to say without knowing the underlying dynamic.

In any event, surely you could have come up with a less terse response than “I’ll pass”? You might as well have told her to go fvck herself. Of course she’s going to next you after this.

 

[Atom Smasher]

Seems to me, looking back, that I’ve always established early on a “you scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours” dynamic with my relationships.

I love diagnosing and fixing things, and helping others, and I also love being served as the king that I am.

I always get them to serve me very early on. Cooking for me, whatever. In return I enjoy fixing her broken stuff. She sees me as a hero while giving equal value to me in other ways.

Helping to move is in a category by itself though. I would have refused too, absolutely. But I would have used more tact. Had you said, “I won’t be around that day” or similar, you wouldn’t have occasion to write this thread.

OP, as I read your threads, I get the impression that you tend to handle things in a mis-calibrated way, and then blame the technique rather than poor execution of the technique.

This was an opportunity to casually say you couldn’t do the move while still avoiding her getting annoyed. You should always be mysterious. You’re “doing something else” that day, and letting her know you won’t help her in a non-offensive yet firm way. On the day of her move she would be wondering what you’re up to while not being hurt or offended. Work the system.

 

[rjc149]

I think the way to handle this was to be unavailable, not openly defiant.

“Oof tomorrow’s no good for me, but enjoy ”

I agree that it’s a little too soon for her to be asking you to help her move, but I don’t know how long you’ve known each other or what your rapport is.

If rapport is solid, you could agree to help her…

“Hmm what’s in it for me?”

…and use this as an opportunity to christen her new place.

 

[rjc149]

Often the mood with women on this forum.

 

[darksprezzatura]

This has happened to me a lot. Classic pua wisdom says women like men that have a spine and don’t get taken advantage of or refuse to be mistreated.
And yet, every time I do this a woman uses it as an excuse to next me.

case in point, I have been sleeping with a new girl. We’ve had sex 3 times and she has been texting me like crazy and all the good things.

we had plans to meet to fvck again tomorrow after she is moved into her new place .

however, this weekend she texted me asking if I would help her move. Seeing as how we only had sex 3 times, I didn’t feel right about that. So I told her I’d have to pass.

then magically today when I text to ask if we are still on for tomorrow she claims her landlord is fixing her bathroom tomorrow.


so, my frustration is that even if you do have a spine and don’t get manipulated by the woman and stand firm to your boundaries, a woman will still (and maybe more so) pass you up.

that’s my frustration.

Are you saying you'd prefer being manipulated if you get continuous access to pvssy?

If I want to help her out, I would, if I don't I won't. If she withdraws sex when I don't, she's trying to condition me.

Soft next, smash a few new plates.

There are always better girls out there. Her loss. It's always a power struggle.

Would you be a whipped mf who does get laid or a guy on his purpose who loses out on a lay or two on the way.

Get more options.

 

[Raasay]

so, my frustration is that even if you do have a spine and don’t get manipulated by the woman and stand firm to your boundaries, a woman will still (and maybe more so) pass you up.

"PUA wisdom" is often made for dudes who don't have a spine at all... so it is a matter of balance, if you date in your league (not below) and she is doing favors for you but you never return them, why should she stay? If she's a good girl, she got options and saying no to everything she wants from you is not how the game works... which does not mean you should be a spineless p*ssy, just balance a bit.

So in your case, let's say both of you were interested in LTR, she already did stuff for you, sexual, or cooking for you or whatever, she wants you to help her to move, this is important to her, maybe she isn't manipulating right now, but just trying to build a fundament for a relationship with you, this is important for healthy girls. Now you need to check, what effort did she put into you and what can you return so it is fair and to not devalue yourself in her eyes. If she didn't put any effort into you, you don't help, if she nexts you, she wasn't interested anyways. If she did, you make a fair move, maybe don't support the whole move but tell her how crazily busy you are, but you will still show up for x hours to contribute your share before you need to head to your next meetings.

 

[SargeMaximus]

There isn't a single woman on the planet worth giving up your dignity over, if you get manipulated by her what do you stand to gain? Sure you might get some sex still but is it worth it?

Plenty of women out there that aren't trash like this one.

Agreed. I don't get manipulated.

Sarge man you already boned her 3x. She just wanted some muscle not asking for money. Yea i get its time but she might of seen it as you just being a dik.
I better play might of been to see it as a bit of a reward?
I dunno I see this one as you just being a dik about lending a hand.

I disagree. I've had plenty of women over the years and they don't ask you for favors till months into things.

Are you saying you'd prefer being manipulated if you get continuous access to pvssy?

No, that's not what I said at all.

What I'm saying is that I can handle attempts to manipulate me because I don't budge. I'll lose a girl before I can be manipulated BUT losing a girl sucks so I'm looking for a way to smooth things over that doesn't include me being manipulated. Read what I wrote. Responses like this are why I don't like it here. You guys barely read and then project or assume.

"PUA wisdom" is often made for dudes who don't have a spine at all... so it is a matter of balance, if you date in your league (not below) and she is doing favors for you but you never return them, why should she stay?

She's done no favors for me. Sex isn't a favor. It's mutual. Stop putting women and sex on a pedestal. She's done nothing for me that women don't do with me on the regular. How has she earned it? Again, stop pedestalizing women dude.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

Manipulation I can handle like I did.

That wasn't manipulation and you didn't handle it.

She asked for a favor and you said no without any attempt at any kind of negotiation.

She even prefaced it by saying it wasn't kosher.

And she took your answer as fair.

Having a backbone doesn't mean shutting people down as quickly as you can.

It means taking their request, turning it into a negotiation, and then flipping around to be in your favor.

AND before you enter into any negotiation, you need to know your own criteria, what you'll put up with, what you won't etc.

 

[SargeMaximus]

You are contradicting yourself. Try being honest ok man. You can disagree all you want but things won't change until you open your mind a bit.
And please spare me the reply saying all the puzz you smash or i dont get manipulated. Blah blah.

Look at wtf you are telling us please lol

It’s happened to me meaning women attempt to manipulate me a lot. Doesn’t mean they succeed.

can you provide some posts of mine where I detail how I was manipulated?

That wasn't manipulation and you didn't handle it.

She asked for a favor and you said no without any attempt at any kind of negotiation.

She even prefaced it by saying it wasn't kosher.

And she took your answer as fair.

Having a backbone doesn't mean shutting people down as quickly as you can.

It means taking their request, turning it into a negotiation, and then flipping around to be in your favor.

AND before you enter into any negotiation, you need to know your own criteria, what you'll put up with, what you won't etc.

I disagree.

 

[Bokanovsky]

Her: "So tell me, do you live alone? What do you do for fun?
Me: "I don't do 21 questions over text, but you're more than welcome to ask me in person."
Her: "Wow. Bye"

No harm, no foul but really, bro? Give me a break. This immature and petty behavior reminds me that dating is just not a right fit for me. I genuinely don't have the patience or tolerance for this nonsense. I understand it's a "game" and I'm still learning to stop being serious about it and (hopefully) will eventually start to treat it as such.

You've got to be kidding? A girl shows interest, initiates a conversation, you respond in an extremely rude manner and she is the immature one?

 

[SargeMaximus]

You've got to be kidding? A girl shows interest, initiates a conversation, you respond in an extremely rude manner and she is the immature one?

Why are you posting this on my thread?

How was what I said rude? And some context is obviously missing here as that wasn’t our entire conversation either.

Guys this is my thread. Make your own for your own questions

 

[rjc149]

Definition of manipulate: control or influence (a person or situation) cleverly, unfairly, or unscrupulously.

I'm curious how you think she was "attempting to manipulate"?

She asked a favor. Two hours of your time. Granted, imo too soon to ask those types of favors BUT I still don't get how it was manipulation.

In what way was she trying to unfairly and unscrupulously control or influence you per the definition?

I get you've been burned, jerked around by women. Your guard is way up because of it.

Women annoy you. You don't trust them. So a woman you've banged three times who has been blowing up your phone and all those "good things" (your own words) indicating interest feels comfortable enough to ask the man she's been banging to lend a hand for two hours.

And right away, you jump to the most negative conclusion- she was attempting to manipulate.

I still don't get how it was manipulation though. Do you think she asked as a clever unscrupulous way to hoodwink you into being her "boyfriend" or something?

You're in control of that, not her.

There is a way to show a woman you won't be manipulated, controlled or a doormat without being an a-hole.

A way that will allow her to respect you not dump you.

Responding with a cold 'think I'll pass' isn't the way.

While I don’t think she was trying to manipulate him, I do think it’s fair to view this as her trying to take advantage of the relationship.

Now, this is a part of any relationship, giving and receiving favors, and women by nature use their sexuality to use men’s superior physical abilities for their ends.

This could have been used as an exchange of services “I’ve only got 1 hour for you, not including lunch, that you’re buying me.” He could have simply been unavailable “sorry I’m running a ton of errands tomorrow.” Or he could have, in good nature, simply called her out “hmm didn’t realize we are at the ‘help me move’ phase so soon ”

We’ve all been jerked around by women’s compliance and control games. And some women do not feel safe and connected with men they cannot control. Yes they feel sexually attracted to them, but that attraction can be quite brief. More dominant and/or anxious women eventually disconnect from non-compliant men and move on.

 

[Black Widow Void]

Correct me if this analogy is incorrect:

She's given you the goods three times (if she's calling you "babe" then this isn't a recent one-nigher).
You offer (not a soft) but a hard-decline when she wants your goods (some man power)
She assesses the situation, reevaluates and gives you a soft-decline.

It looks like she's experiencing a bit of "buyers remorse."
And, it sounds like you've been recently bitten and your radar is now a bit overly sensitive (been there, myself).

You can likely still salvage this, but it'll get worse if you follow the typical anti-female advice on this forum

 

[SargeMaximus]

Correct me if this analogy is incorrect:

She's given you the goods three times (if she's calling you "babe" then this isn't a recent one-nigher).
You offer (not a soft) but a hard-decline when she wants your goods (some man power)
She accesses the situation, reevaluates and gives you a soft-decline.

Sounds like she's experiencing a bit of "buyers remorse."

maybe she is but there has to be a better way to assure and connect with her other than giving into her manipulation. This goes for all women not just this woman.

I don’t ascribe to her giving me anything as I gave her my d!ck as much as she gave me her pvssy

 

[Black Widow Void]

maybe she is but there has to be a better way to assure and connect with her other than giving into her manipulation. This goes for all women not just this woman.

I don’t ascribe to her giving me anything as I gave her my d!ck as much as she gave me her pvssy

I agree that female manipulation shouldn't be tolerated. I suspect that she's also thinking the same thing about men.

If you only want to give her time when she's offering the goods, I'm not knocking it. But just be sure that you're also acknowledging your own form of manipulation as well.

You're not a victim.

 

[Raasay]

She's done no favors for me.

Why do you complain then? She wasn't interested, tried to manipulate you and as you refused she nexted you. Period.

According to your initial post you seem to hang out a lot with girls that are not interested in you, maybe improve your selection...

 

[Grounded eagle]

Tell me about it. I'm going through a rough patch right now in terms of dating, and damn, it's frustrating.

Met a woman at the pool hall who was all over me - got her number, and the texting began the following day, where SHE initiated. I'm paraphrasing but I believe she asked why I didn't bother hitting her up first.

Her: "So tell me, do you live alone? What do you do for fun?
Me: "I don't do 21 questions over text, but you're more than welcome to ask me in person."
Her: "Wow. Bye"

No harm, no foul but really, bro? Give me a break. This immature and petty behavior reminds me that dating is just not a right fit for me. I genuinely don't have the patience or tolerance for this nonsense. I understand it's a "game" and I'm still learning to stop being serious about it and (hopefully) will eventually start to treat it as such.

This,and OP’s post, is the problem with the binary,”Being nice is bad,being an a/s/s/h/o/l/e is good,”,rhetoric often perpetuated here.