When is a dump TOO quick?

[Kailex]

From some of the older posters, I keep picking up that NEXTing should be based on certain parameters. Yet, it seems to me that almost ALL women do certain things in order to maintain distance or play the game.

I was reading Fantasy's thread and it just seems that most of us are REALLY quick to dismiss someone based on ONE thing.

I'm not saying this is GOOD or BAD, I'm just asking, is there a reasoning to this? Should we not tolerate certain behaviors?

What are common red flags that we can dismiss so quickly from? I can understand common things like a woman having too many male friends or contact with the ex-boyfriend... but are things like not answering a VM reason to next someone? Is it because it is considered a frame shift?


I'm just having SOME trouble grasping the concept of WHEN a next should happen and why as we get older, we become a lot less tolerant of certain behaviors. I see in the Discussion forum, guys who will ask after leaving a 5th voice message... whether they should call again or not, while in the Mature Man forum, I see quick dismissals being the law of the land.

Is this what we are destined to become? A neverending cycles of dismissals based on perceived poor behavior?

 

[DangNammit]

Kailex - Hey - always enjoy your posts...

I just came here looking for something on this very subject... funny.

Don't know if this adds to your train of thought or not, but I've been in a ltr with a gal for about 5 months now... I am starting to feel the push/pull 5hit going on and I don't like it. It's been going on for a while, but just in the last couple of weeks, my gut has been firing off on me - SOMETHING AIN'T RIGHT.

I didn't hear a word from her at all today which is odd. She's out of town with family on vacation, but not like she's in the woods camping or anything.

I told myself after my last ding-dong that I would trust my gut. I'm starting NC with her tonight. I'm a single guy, I don't owe her 5hit and don't need to be toy'ed with.

I guess what I'm getting at as an answer to your question, is to next when your gut or instincts tell you to (not listening to your head as it whirls-up excuses on her behalf, for her 5hitty behavior). Thoughts?

 

[runner83]

I agree that you should trust your gut rather than your head, since you usually know deep down what the real situation is.

Similar to this, always judge a woman by her actions, not her words.

There's no hard and fast rules and it all depends on your standards.

Sometimes I've gone NC on a girl after she hasn't responded to ONE message (obviously, this depends on how long I've seen her for). I simply remove her number from my phone, and if I never hear back, then that's confirmation that I would have been wasting my time in the first place.

Although, now I don't tend to "dump" girls, instead just go NC. To allow for the 0.001% possibility that her phone battery died etc.

If she's interested, she'll get back in contact.

I have more important things to do with my life than (only) chase girls, so I don't see any point in wasting my time chasing girls who aren't interested.

Especially now that I've come to the rather cynical conclusion that most girls / women lead rather meaningless lives anyway, that will add little value to mine, other than the physical benefits.

 

[Drum&Bass]

Most guys on this forum are AFC's until they develop superior social skills and awareness.

Frequently NEXT'ing girls prevents the dorks / geeks / nerds / weaklings / AFC's / etc....from being exposed.

Once discovered (as an AFC) women will manipulate you and do hurtful things. Your AFC nature will cause you to develop "oneitis," and you will endure weeks, months, years of abuse.

Lots of socially UNDER-developed guys get manipulated into marriage. Just check ANY marriage thread in this section and it becomes crystal clear that these AFC guys should NOT have gotten married in the 1st place.

Consider NEXT'ing as a protective measure (for AFC's).

As you begin to master the understanding of human nature and the art of manipulation, influence and attraction you will know which girls don't deserve NEXT'ing and whch girls do (because ALL girls will bullsh!t you but some of them will be worth it).

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

When you stand up, put on your pants, and just as you walk out of the bathroom you think "oh, crap, I should have waited a little longer..."

Oops, not the dump you were talking about.

Whenever you establish that the girl in question has exhibited a DEAL BREAKER, then it's welcome to dumpsville, population YOU.

In order to know what DEAL BREAKERS are, you have to have some experience and figure out FOR YOU what is

unacceptable
acceptable
desirable
must have

In a woman.

Most guys have vague ideas of what they want, feminine, supportive, can cook, doesn't nag, etc, but these are hard to spot as they don't easily lend themselves to identification.

One way to make sure your DEALBREAKERS are real, and don't vary based on your mood, or the girl is to describe what her behaving in a dealbreaker fashion would look like on video.

If you were to watch yourself and your girl interact on video, would you be able to spot dealbreaker activity? If you're dealbreakers were based on her activity when she was away from you, would you be able to describe it to a friend over the phone, so he would have NO PROBLEM identifying the behavior on video as well?

If she exhibits too many UNDESIREABLE traits early on, then I would suggest dumping is appropriate.

But if the more you get to know her, and her UNDESIRABLE/DESIREABLE ratio so consistently less than 1, then it can get harder and harder to dump her once that DEALBREAKER rears it's head (if it ever does).

But getting to know a girl in an honest and real way, past the initial approach/close requires a whole set of skills.

If you are confident in your approach/close skills, but not so confident in your relationship building skills (or however else you'd like to label them) then you may err on the side of dumping too soon.

I'd suggest that dumping too soon is better than getting in so far you let a few DEALBREAKERS slide and then you're fukked.

But, to use an analogy of comparing women to stocks, the wise words of Legendary stock market operator Bernard Baruch may come in handy:

"I never bought at the bottom and I ALWAYS sold too soon."

Just like in the markets, with women your stop-loss (next) is your most useful weapon. There'll always be another one.

However, nobody owns a stock for their lifetime, and some are looking for a liflelong commited relationship. In that case I'd recommend have a really solid, often revised list of deal breakers, undesirables, desirables, must-haves with the addition of a "keeper above all else" category.

 

[jophil28]

What are common red flags that we can dismiss so quickly from? I can understand common things like a woman having too many male friends or contact with the ex-boyfriend... but are things like not answering a VM reason to next someone? Is it because it is considered a frame shift?

The author of that thread is/was a poster whose philosphies mostly overlap with mine, so perhaps I can shed some light here.
I interpreted his annoyance with her over the VM issue as twofold.

1) She did not respond at all, which is disrespectful in itself. Strike 1.
2) When she did eventually explain why she did not get back to him, she used words like "I was just so out of it.." HE commented that her "reason" was like a highschoolers' response. He is right . The woman is 40 years old for pete's sake. I would have been turned off by that remark too.

Older men get to realise that 'pvssy' is in abundant supply. Over 50% of the world's population has one. "Getting some" isn't so hard because at our age we have scored so much of it that we tend to become choosey and less urgent about chasing it.
It becomes important to us to spend our time with women who demonstate other qualities. WE value character qualities, maturity in actions, and loyalty and honesty . These qualities is in much shorter supply than the golden vaggy, and hence, in or minds, have high value.

Secondly, long and hard experience teaches a kind of intolerance for women's poor behaviors that we know she will never attempt to change .
We tend to eject early for that reason.

 

[Kailex]

Older men get to realise that 'pvssy' is in abundant supply. Over 50% of the world's population has one. "Getting some" isn't so hard because at our age we have scored so much of it that we tend to become choosey and less urgent about chasing it.
It becomes important to us to spend our time with women who demonstate other qualities. WE value character qualities, maturity in actions, and loyalty and honesty . These qualities is in much shorter supply than the golden vaggy, and hence, in or minds, have high value.

Secondly, long and hard experience teaches a kind of intolerance for women's poor behaviors that we know she will never attempt to change .
We tend to eject early for that reason.

That's funny because a lot of those "women" from Loveshack would say that older men can't be choosers, nor will they have an "abundance".

That's why I ask. Because it seems like the older we get, the less we tolerate...

to me, it always seemed like the older we get, the less we can be choosey because we DIDN'T have that many options. I guess men truly do age like wine and women like milk.

Taiyuu does hit the nail on the head though, I guess the parameters change by a LOT when someone is looking for someone LTR, but I guess we tend to be LESS lenient if we are just "dating" casually. Why put up with it if we can just move on to the next one?

 

[jophil28]

That's funny because a lot of those "women" from Loveshack would say that older men can't be choosers, nor will they have an "abundance".

Ha ! Another cunning tactic by aging, desperate women to try to diminish the increasing advantage that age, experience and wisdom brings for men.
Those older women resent two groups - older men who date younger women, and the younger women who date older men.

You said it yourself..Men age like wine,women age like milk.

IF I were a curdled bottled of old milch, past my expiration date, I would be a tad snippy too.

 

[jophil28]

to me, it always seemed like the older we get, the less we can be choosey because we DIDN'T have that many options.

Be careful that you do NOT unintentionally adopt a scarcity mentality as you get older. IT happens to a lot of men who convince themselves that they are "too old to date" like they use to. They have bought into common social beliefs and are obeying social conventions without thinking about their validity.

I read it here frequently - guys around 30 years old who fear social disapproval if they date a 21 year old.
What !

Sure, the game changes a little as you get older BUT , I will say it again, the older you get, the MORE pvssy is available to you, if you want it.

 

[Jitterbug]

Taiyuu does hit the nail on the head though, I guess the parameters change by a LOT when someone is looking for someone LTR, but I guess we tend to be LESS lenient if we are just "dating" casually. Why put up with it if we can just move on to the next one?

Well, this year I've changed my focus to qualifying women for a LTR because I'm getting bored with casual dating and have no time for it anymore.

When I was just dating, I put up with more sh!t tests & other poor behaviours (that aren't disrespectful - I would never tolerate that) until I got what I wanted (poon).

Now that my goal has changed to finding a girl that would add values to my life (LTR), I'm being very picky and NEXT after seeing behaviours that I know I would not put up with in a LTR, or things that I know would be a huge issue down the track.

I'm influenced by the Anti-Dump Machine series of posts that Pook made (a compilation of Anti-Dump's posts) years ago. People back then didn't pay much attention to them because they weren't about picking up women, they were about qualifying them to find a good one for a LTR. Anti-Dump was an older gentleman who's been divorced, so he was very selective on what kind of women he'd let in his life, and he NEXTed superfast.

 

[Kailex]

So, in essence, what I am reading so far is that, it's not about dumping for any old reason... it's the fact that the older you get, the more dating experience you have underneath your belt, which in turn, leads to recognizing patterns in women's behavior?

Say, the above case: A woman who ignores her VM is an instant next, NOT because she ignored it for ignore's sake, but because she listened to it and then didn't think of returning the phone call.

I guess, it boils down to recognizing the "code of conduct" and realizing that what applies to one woman, necessarily does apply to most and nexting quick is indeed a "protection" of sorts for DJ's. If we learn the hard way from one woman, why learn the hard why from another who displays the same tendencies?

Avoid the same situation more than once.

 

[AmIAFC]

It's all relative to the benefits of being with that person and/or if those benefits adequately offset the spats of unacceptable behavior.

 

[jophil28]

It's all relative to the benefits of being with that person and/or if those benefits adequately offset the spats of unacceptable behavior.

Not quite.
I am a firm believer that there is a cluster of behaviors that enhance LTR's and conversely, there is also a cluster of behaviors that contaminate or wreck LTR's .
The "relativists" are going to get hissy here, but from my observations, the two groups of behaviors generally apply to all of the LTR's that I have had , or seen in my social groups.
Bad behaviors seems to flag itself as "BAD".

For example, a woman's cheating will NEVER enhance a relationship. It is universally destructive.
A woman's domineering and nagging will NEVER make for a closer more harmonious marriage.

And so on.

Key here is to assemble this group of destructive behaviors (dealbreakers ) and be willing to press Eject when you encounter it.

 

[jophil28]

Say, the above case: A woman who ignores her VM is an instant next, NOT because she ignored it for ignore's sake, but because she listened to it and then didn't think of returning the phone call.

Fantasy also made the comment that as well as her rudeness in not returning, the 'reason' that she offered for not returning his VM was adolescent and off-putting.
Her words were approximately," Sorry I did not return your call. I was just OUT OF IT." She is 40 years old !
He said that this comment added to his downward spiralling IL in her, because it sounded "highschool".
It was .

 

[Blue Phoenix]

Great answers guys!!

Most guys on this forum are AFC's until they develop superior social skills and awareness.

Frequently NEXT'ing girls prevents the dorks / geeks / nerds / weaklings / AFC's / etc....from being exposed.

Once discovered (as an AFC) women will manipulate you and do hurtful things. Your AFC nature will cause you to develop "oneitis," and you will endure weeks, months, years of abuse.

Lots of socially UNDER-developed guys get manipulated into marriage. Just check ANY marriage thread in this section and it becomes crystal clear that these AFC guys should NOT have gotten married in the 1st place.

Consider NEXT'ing as a protective measure (for AFC's).

As you begin to master the understanding of human nature and the art of manipulation, influence and attraction you will know which girls don't deserve NEXT'ing and whch girls do (because ALL girls will bullsh!t you but some of them will be worth it).

Unfortunately, most men don´t even know when they´re being manipulated!

When women were labeled the “fairer sex,” it wasn’t in reference to their behavior. Women are anything but “fair.” They are, however, masters in the art of manipulation -- but all with good reason. The following are tricks -- or “power plays” -- she uses to assert dominance, to remind you of her importance and to let you know she’s not to be taken for granted. These temper tantrums can be acted out by any female, of any age, at any time. Read on to learn about her power plays -- and how to nip this behavior in the bud. Which are:

Dressing sexy
Witholding sex/affection
Flirting with other men in front of you
Delaying response to your texts or calls
Marking her territory

*http://www.askmen.com/dating/heidi_200/203_dating_girl.html