When disrespect ends a relationship

[New_Journey]

my parents are elderly and facing difficult economic conditions.

Did you cause those economic conditions?

For her, respect = having fear of someone. This behavior stems from her unresolved traumas. emotional health issues or how my granpda educated her, which is not something I want in my life. When I have to adopt this behavior, I feel like I'm detaching from the healthy person I aspire to be, someone who wants to be respected in a healthy way by a woman, because I want to be respected because of admiration and not by fear.

It's easy to say, but how can one earn respect without having to argue? My mother is 65, still dealing with unresolved traumas, and lives with my father, who inadvertently exacerbates those traumas every day. (this is why they're togheter for 40+ years, they're two toxicity being togheter).
As a son, what would you do in this situation? You're right that my GF'll view all this as a red flag.

My parents are exactly like yours. One time my mom visited me, I took all kinds of disrespect, let myself on fire to keep her warm, eventually I exploted cause I was afraid of expressing cause of the way I was raised, I got fed up, I kicked her out of my house and sent her with my dad, that was 3 years ago.

They're visiting me now and have been with me for 3 months.

I talked to them and put this boundary, I told them, "you two are coming to my house as guests, do not criticize my life style" Things changed night and day for the better, I always get some $hit from her (women are like that), but I nuked that $hit pretty quick, and things go back to normal.

I noticed when I stopped giving a $hit what they do (she threaten to end it herself in the past), everything magically changed, it is freeing knowing that your not responsible for anyone's life or happiness.

The only thing you can do, is to have boundaries and enforce them, no matter who it is. When you lose the fear of losing a girl, losing your family, losing everyone to find yourself and rewire your brain to think differently. At the end, the only issue at hand is you, your mind thinks is in a maze, but is not, its just fear of the unknown.

 

[New_Journey]

Why do you imagine that is? Because if you allow your mother to run over you and disrespect you, how on Earth are you going to tell her your wife is the priority woman in your life now if you marry? And how can a woman respect a man who lets his mother enmesh him?

This is one of the hardest umbilical cord to cut for men, many men are monogamous to their mothers for a lifetime, they do everything they can to make her happy, accommodate every desire she has, never telling her no, never put boundaries or enforcing them, never rocking the boat for fear of abandonment. It is a fvcking prison, the worse part is that, men in that situation do the same with their women. Be careful with that @jhonny9546

I was in that situation, but is solvable by any man who wants to solve it. And when you are on the other side, its night and day difference.

 

[jhonny9546]

I always get some $hit from her (women are like that)

So in this case, if you had a woman in a relationship, you would next her.
In this case is your mother, that still test or break your boundaries.

Given this, what do you do when she will $hit at you over and over?

 

[New_Journey]

So in this case, if you had a woman in a relationship, you would next her.

I only next if they cross my boundary. If I next whenever a woman makes drama I would be alone.

In this case is your mother, that still test or break your boundaries.

She broke it once and I kicked her out and my behaviour towards her changed by itself, I don't know how to explain it. It killed placing her on a pedestal and started seeing her a human being with flaws and $hit.

Given this, what do you do when she will $hit at you over and over?

Its being 3 months and she did it once. I naturally resorted to distance and silent, she came back to me wanting to talk, I told her in my house I want peace, if she can't give that to me, then its better for her to leave but taking my dad with her. She protested for a bit but then, never again.

Stating my boundary, enforcing them, not being afraid of saying what I wanted, with the combination of being competent and having achieved my goals, made me the leader of family. I didn't want it, it happened organically.

I am aware cause red pill made me see it, that's the difference between naturals and us, their instincts are enforcing boundaries, doing what they want, not giving a fvck what others think, we were conditioned to do the opposite, until we see the mistake. Eventually it becomes natural. All roads lead to Rome.

 

[Divorced w 3]

There is a subtle line between disrespect and be able to tolerate in order to do this!
Would you define a bit more?

What I meant, personally was that there are a lot of factors that go into that decision to draw boundaries and move people out of your life. I'm no expert because I don't have a great ability to draw them, but I am working on it so this topic is of interest to me.

I try to take things on balance. How serious, for one is that behavior? Some situations simply have no room for tolerance, I assume we know what those are.

Be objective about what that person has done that is negative, and see for starters if there are any redeeming qualities in that person. Have I mentioned my concerns around it and have I explained why, and I have I heard them out? What was their reaction to my feedback? Have they committed to try to fix that behavior and have they demonstrably taken steps on addressing it? How much grace can I allow in that process? Grace, after all, is most visibly demonstrated in the moment that one is suffering.

Importantly, have I contributed to that behavior and do I continue to? Allow myself to look inside and determine what the dynamic is.

I am sure others can add. Life is grey. Life also is a continuous learning process. Try to see the positives in the situation no matter what, even if those only lead to a process of discovering more of yourself and if someone has seriously wronged you, try to say thank you for the opportunity to learn your limits and kicking you into gear to learn how to have a healthier interaction moving ahead.

 

[New_Journey]

There is a subtle line between disrespect and be able to tolerate in order to do this!
Would you define a bit more?

That's very individual, you need to make a list of a few things you

1. won't tolerate from anyone, automatically next
2. you will tolerate, will call it out as bad behavior, will give a chance to fix, and if its not fixed, then you leave.
3. behavior that you will tolerate and understand as part of women's nature that won't conflict with the first 2.

At least, that's how I see it in my life.

 

[Divorced w 3]

Correct. Too bad for her I see it from 10 miles away. My mother (who I jettisoned from my life for covert narcissist BS) was a master manipulator and much smarter than my mother-in-law. Fortunately she lives far away and we have little involvement with her. So yeah. I learned to call my mother on her BS, ridcule her for it, and cut it off. When she learned she couldn't "work" me, she painted me black to anyone she could think of. When she tried to "work" my children? That was it. Game over, you're out. Game, Set, Match.

Then I had to sit my kids down and explain her behaviors and why it was bad. My kids called her "Crazy Granny" in stark contrast to my ex husband's mother, who was a wonderful grandmother & wonderful human being who the children adored. My mother went through terrible sexual abuse at the hands of a family member in her childhood & youth, which was terrible and unresolved. So I knew why she was a broken person, but the behaviors were toxic to my family, so I kicked her out of my sphere. Never regretted that choice nor felt remorse about it.

My job as a mother was to protect my children. I did that and they knew it. My husband has distanced himself from his mother for similar reasons although she's not as intelligent nor sophisticated as my mother, its still narcissistic behavior, which I prefer to do without.

But he has to make those decisions. Its his parent, not mine.

You got it on the last line there - that's his mother and only he's going to figure out how to work through that. I banged my head up against the wall for years about both of my parents, until I accepted their limitations, and now I try my best to work peacefully within those limits, my mother though right now especially is on time-out. She did something not OK related to my parenting plan that could have had serious repercussions. Through distance over many months now I am just starting to find some empathy for her not being well, and that includes her massive absence in our life and her being entirely unable to admit that she's far away and not present even by phone.

 

[BeExcellent]

You got it on the last line there - that's his mother and only he's going to figure out how to work through that. I banged my head up against the wall for years about both of my parents, until I accepted their limitations, and now I try my best to work peacefully within those limits, my mother though right now especially is on time-out. She did something not OK related to my parenting plan that could have had serious repercussions. Through distance over many months now I am just starting to find some empathy for her not being well, and that includes her massive absence in our life and her being entirely unable to admit that she's far away and not present even by phone.

I don't give my two cents too much about his mother and/or his relationship with his mother. On occassion she calls me, I am cordial and kind; try to be positive. She will say things like "well my son rarely calls me, I suppose he does not want a relationship with his mother, then what can I do.....?" which is of course an attempt to manipulate me to get to my husband. I always give grace in those moments, even though I see the manipulation. My husband does not speak with his younger brother for nine years. I cannot help but wonder if his mother works to divide her sons. The younger son is clearly the favored son, which bugs my husband. I believe it possible she could seek to punish my husband by disinheriting him, which could mean the younger brother gets everything (few million) and my husband gets nothing.

My husband sees this as a possibility but he's like 'Whatever.' Maybe she leaves it all to the Sierra Club, who knows. It belongs to her and the step father (who has no children of his own)...its their money to disburse. We will be fine with or without. He knows he cannot control what she does and he will not be held hostage over an inheritance because he does recognize that she dangles that carrot for attention and it is manipulation and an attempt to control behavior of both sons.

She shows zero interest in working on herself and she is 75 so its not going to happen. So I stay out of it unless my husband needs to vent about it or specifically asks for my thoughts.

The sad thing is her 3rd husband (the step father some 35 years now) is the quintissential blue pill nice man. My mother-in-law is rude to him often just in the few interactions I've seen, and travels often without him (goes to Europe or scuba diving etc. with a widowed best girlfriend.) The step father is kind and has always been kind to my husband and to me. My mother-in-law remains a remarkably attractive woman even at an advanced age and she has used her looks as leverage to get what she wants from men all her adult life as far as I can gather. My husband sees this and that is not the kind of marriage he ever wants. He finds it weird they don't travel as a couple but guesses that his step father welcomes the breaks from his mother.

Quite interesting as this was very different than the dynamic I grew up with.

 

[Divorced w 3]

I don't give my two cents too much about his mother and/or his relationship with his mother. On occassion she calls me, I am cordial and kind; try to be positive. She will say things like "well my son rarely calls me, I suppose he does not want a relationship with his mother, then what can I do.....?" which is of course an attempt to manipulate me to get to my husband. I always give grace in those moments, even though I see the manipulation. My husband does not speak with his younger brother for nine years. I cannot help but wonder if his mother works to divide her sons. The younger son is clearly the favored son, which bugs my husband. I believe it possible she could seek to punish my husband by disinheriting him, which could mean the younger brother gets everything (few million) and my husband gets nothing.

My husband sees this as a possibility but he's like 'Whatever.' Maybe she leaves it all to the Sierra Club, who knows. It belongs to her and the step father (who has no children of his own)...its their money to disburse. We will be fine with or without. He knows he cannot control what she does and he will not be held hostage over an inheritance because he does recognize that she dangles that carrot for attention and it is manipulation and an attempt to control behavior of both sons.

She shows zero interest in working on herself and she is 75 so its not going to happen. So I stay out of it unless my husband needs to vent about it or specifically asks for my thoughts.

The sad thing is her 3rd husband (the step father some 35 years now) is the quintissential blue pill nice man. My mother-in-law is rude to him often just in the few interactions I've seen, and travels often without him (goes to Europe or scuba diving etc. with a widowed best girlfriend.) The step father is kind and has always been kind to my husband and to me. My mother-in-law remains a remarkably attractive woman even at an advanced age and she has used her looks as leverage to get what she wants from men all her adult life as far as I can gather. My husband sees this and that is not the kind of marriage he ever wants. He finds it weird they don't travel as a couple but guesses that his step father welcomes the breaks from his mother.

Quite interesting as this was very different than the dynamic I grew up with.

That's a bummer on all accounts. My father, I am pretty sure, wrote me out of his estate when I told him to shove it and that he was on ice for potentially eternity for his wife's loose lips related to my parenting situation in the height of my divorce (and by extension, his wife who wasn't present at this encounter). Kind of wish I had not done that. I have since apologized, but I have received no confirmation that he has brought me back into the plan. He won't even let me crash at the beach house by myself. He holds grudges, his pride was hurt and that's his burden to bare. It's obviously not just a burden in his relations with me and so I look for empathy for him and see him in the best way I can.

I used to be POA and Executor, but nobody will give me color one way or the other. What can you do at this point but attempt to learn an expensive lesson. Problem is that I did not learn that lesson for another couple years, related to irritability, and vulnerability, etc, but I think finally I have some traction related to it. As I said above, thanks to the greater wisdom of seeing opportunity in all angles.

 

[BeExcellent]

The lesson, truly, is that you cannot worry about things someone might do for you if those things come with bindings attached. Will the money help? Of course.

But if my husband has to be a dancing monkey to get it? Well that is not going to happen. He is a dancing monkey for no one.

And I respect him for that.

 

[Divorced w 3]

The lesson, truly, is that you cannot worry about things someone might do for you if those things come with bindings attached. Will the money help? Of course.

But if my husband has to be a dancing monkey to get it? Well that is not going to happen. He is a dancing monkey for no one.

And I respect him for that.

I agree - it is always better to be self sufficient. Having a healthy relationship depends on one’s ability to be resilient with fortitude, resources and with a support network of one’s own making.

 

[Sega Genesis]

Just catching up with this thread and wanted to say out of all the threads I've read here, this one is truly the best and so inspiring whether one has an acrimonious relationship with a parent or a harmonious one.

My relationship with my mom growing up was not a good one, she was quite abusive, think Mommie Dearest - cutting off my hair at one pont, locking me in a small closet for hours, etc.

Physically I vividly recall her choking me on she and my dad's bedroom floor until my brother heard and stopped her.

It was really bad.

I wasn't even a bad kid, but my dad adored me (being the only girl) and in retrospect I think she was jealous but anyway...

I was a terrible daughter in return, I was not there for her when she needed me or while she was terminally ill and suffering or on her death bed.

I had to shut out all emotion re her, it was how I learned to cope and emotionally survive.

That said, after she died I nearly had a breakdown for not being there for her.

@New_Journey post to @Divorced w 3 resonated with me so much - how she did the best she could with the tools she had learned, probably from her own parents.

I try to always remember that.

I've been through so much since she passed and one thing I learned is forgiveness is so powerful! Not for them as much as for yourself!

I still have my moments but forgiveness really gets me through no matter how horrible she was to me.

She also had a beautiful caring side too which often gets lost amid all the abuse and bad treatment.

I try to remember that too..

 

[New_Journey]

My relationship with my mom growing up was not a good one, she was quite abusive, think Mommie Dearest - cutting off my hair at one pont, locking me in a small closet for hours, etc.

Physically I vividly recall her choking me on she and my dad's bedroom floor until my brother heard and stopped her.

That conditioned your brain that when a guy mimics your moms behavior you are drawn to them, you fall head over heels, am I wrong? Have your previous bf were abusive and treated you like your mom treated you?

I was a terrible daughter in return, I was not there for her when she needed me or while she was terminally ill and suffering or on her death bed.

I had to shut out all emotion re her, it was how I learned to cope and emotionally survive.

That said, after she died I nearly had a breakdown for not being there for her.

That was not your burden to carry, you didn't have to be there for nobody, nobody asked to be born, you are on earth to live the best life you can have and be the most happy you can be.

However, if you were not there in any moment, then that's the question, why? Resentment? Hate? Fear? Those are the things keeping you stuck in your brain.

Same way you forgave your mom, its the same exact way you gotta forgive yourself, forget it as just part of the past and be better from now on knowing on what you gotta work on.

Children should have to be better than parents, that's the whole point, they teach you what they know, and then you gotta work on your deficiencies to be better for your offspring.

 

[Sega Genesis]

That conditioned your brain that when a guy mimics your moms behavior you are drawn to them...

On some level yes, it was familiar to me, my "normal." However, I drew the line at physical abuse, that was my boundary.

However fortunately I've taken great strides to overcome this toxic pattern through therapy etc and now today I feel like a completely different person!

I'm still drawn to strength and confidence but I value kindness and thoughtfulness now ... ironically qualities my dad possessed!

 

[Sega Genesis]

Same way you forgave your mom, its the same exact way you gotta forgive yourself...

So true! Still working on this, it's not easy!

 

[Sophisticator]

 

[Sega Genesis]

View attachment 14005

Haha I second this!!

 

[jhonny9546]

redeeming qualities in that person.

It could be a double-edged sword: a person who does something wrong and then shows you that he has these qualities, could weaken you and make you become too compliant every time he makes a mistake. (This is the case of manipulative Borderlines who can go from witches to sweet Barbies depending on the moment)

you need to make a list of a few things you

That makes sense. Now you made me very curious to know what the point "3" of your list would look like.

Haha I second this!!

So you came to a point where you are "conciously" repress a physically violent man for a kind and good one, but you would like him to dominate you in bed, because of that experience you had with your mother? Are you finding that domination satysfing for you? What if He won't do that, would you search that by cheating or you'd be tempted to if you are in presence of a violent man?

@BeExcellent Have you ever done a description of your all LTR's men somewhere in the forum?

 

[New_Journey]

Now you made me very curious to know what the point "3" of your list would look like.

Emotional changes, hypergamy, drama, some fights, silent treatment, emotions when in her period, jealousy, $hits tests, comfort tests, negging and many more than all women bring to a relationship. You can't change them, just accept them for how they are. Atlas didn't ask for a lighter load, he asked for broader shoulders.

 

[BeExcellent]

It could be a double-edged sword: a person who does something wrong and then shows you that he has these qualities, could weaken you and make you become too compliant every time he makes a mistake. (This is the case of manipulative Borderlines who can go from witches to sweet Barbies depending on the moment)

That makes sense. Now you made me very curious to know what the point "3" of your list would look like.

So you came to a point where you are "conciously" repress a physically violent man for a kind and good one, but you would like him to dominate you in bed, because of that experience you had with your mother? Are you finding that domination satysfing for you? What if He won't do that, would you search that by cheating or you'd be tempted to if you are in presence of a violent man?

@BeExcellent Have you ever done a description of your all LTR's men somewhere in the forum?

Somewhere yeas ago I think I listed descriptors. Would have been prior to meeting my husband if memory serves. It could be in the Independent Women thread that The Duke started; or perhaps it is in the unicorn thread (How to Spot a Unicorn). Honestly I'm not sure.