When A Prenup Isn't An Option

[Victory Unlimited]

Yo Troops,


Wyldfire brought up an interesting point about the higher caliber of women that you can sometimes find in rural areas...SOME of them OBVIOUSLY exhibit that they have a definite code of ethics, and that they are more level-headed right from the start.

The one I have met recently seems quieter, simpler, and more down-to-earth than a lot of the regular, already-corrupted, "city-chicks" I usually meet.LOL

So I'll contnue to give her a chance and see what happens. However, I will CONTINUE to remain EVER VIGILANT.

One things for sure. Prenup or NOT, if a woman's behavior during the dating period is even SLIGHTLY suspect, then ANY guy's marriage plans should be put on hold.

One important question to ask that will expose where the possible committment phobia is originating from is this:

Do you want a Prenup because of HER "perceived" level of committment----or YOURS?

If HER level of committment is in question, strongly consider an Ironclad Prenup, or not marrying her at all.

But on the other hand, if YOUR level of committment is in question, strongly consider not marrying her at all.

SEE the difference, soldiers? The difference is SUBTLE, but there IS a difference...


Peace...one day.

 

[Abbott]

I've wondered about this.

So, it's not possible to do something like:

I keep whatever I have before marriage, and whatever I make/get/earn afterwards.

She gets the same (so if she happens to win the lottery I won't get a dime).

50/50 for joint assets (like house and expense account for the house).

I get the son(s).

She gets the daughter(s).

No support payments in either direction.

?


I've always figured that in this modern day and age that's the fairest way of doing things. I've also always thought that if a child can only have one parent, then they should have the parent that's the same gender as they are.

This arrangement would protect me if I'm the richer one, and it protects her if she happens to be richer.

 

[Bible_Belt]

Child custody and child support are off-limits in prenups. You can agree to no alimony, and it might be ok if she has a job to support her after the divorce (although in some states like CA, alimony can't be waived.) As far as assets, you would have to put a lot of work into keeping your assets separate. If you had a business that was labeled as your individual property in the prenup, and your spouse never had any access to the accounts, you might be able to keep the income that the business had generated while you were together. Salary from a job earned while married is almost always considered joint property. You could certainly put in the agreement that the money earned from your job is yours alone, and if it never got deposited into a joint account and she never had access, and she never got a lawyer to fight it, then you might have a chance. But it would be an uphill battle; you would risk a liberal judge throwing out that part of the agreement, or even the entire prenup. Illinois is fairly conservative regarding interpretation of prenups, other states like California are not.

 

[selfmade]

In California ....


CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION
ARTICLE 1 DECLARATION OF RIGHTS


SEC. 21. Property owned before marriage or acquired during marriage
by gift, will, or inheritance is separate property.

************
Therefore, if you only care to protect what you have before marriage then I would say you are safe to marry in CA.

 

[Latinoman]

I've wondered about this.

So, it's not possible to do something like:

I keep whatever I have before marriage, and whatever I make/get/earn afterwards.

She gets the same (so if she happens to win the lottery I won't get a dime).

50/50 for joint assets (like house and expense account for the house).

I get the son(s).

She gets the daughter(s).

No support payments in either direction.

?


I've always figured that in this modern day and age that's the fairest way of doing things. I've also always thought that if a child can only have one parent, then they should have the parent that's the same gender as they are.

This arrangement would protect me if I'm the richer one, and it protects her if she happens to be richer.

You cannot PRE-negotiate anything (as far as I understand) that were NOT present prior to marriage such as children. In another words, you cannot PRE-negotiate child support or child custody. And it is my understanding that that alone can throw the entire Pre-up away.

And you cannot PRE-negotiate future income accumulated while together. That's my understanding.

I think you can PRE-negotiate anything as it relates to stuff you bring into the marriage.

But I'm not a lawyer. It is better to consult one. And I'm sure this might change from state to state too.

 

[Latinoman]

In California ....


CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION
ARTICLE 1 DECLARATION OF RIGHTS


SEC. 21. Property owned before marriage or acquired during marriage
by gift, will, or inheritance is separate property.

************
Therefore, if you only care to protect what you have before marriage then I would say you are safe to marry in CA.

But let's say you married in California...but end up divorcing in Ohio or Florida or New York or whatever?

 

[Sir Drinksalot]

There are a lot of misconceptions about pre-nups. They aren't bulletproof armor.

A pre-nup is basically having both parties sign off on a divorce agreement BEFORE the marriage. Typically this means agreeing on an alimony amount and distro of marital assets.

Men also don't realize that you have to hire lawyers to defend the pre-nup when the divorce happens.

Most states have marital asset laws - ie, what's yours before is yours after as long as you don't intermingle funds.

That being said, no man should get married without a pre-nup, unless she makes a LOT more $. It's an important statement if nothing else. As in, "if you're expecting a golden parachute out of this relationship, I won't get married."

Saying "a pre-nup is not an option" sounds awfully AFC, like you're willing to put your head on the chopping block, with only a few sneaky tricks to prtect you.

 

[bigjohnson]

Without well written prenup marriage is not an option.

 

[selfmade]

But let's say you married in California...but end up divorcing in Ohio or Florida or New York or whatever?

You got married in CA, therefore that's what takes over. Even if you moved to Canada. You got married in CA.

 

[blueguy]

Guys,

I wanted to open debate about how assets earned during marriage can be protected - if anybody here knows. Maybe I am atypical, but I am concerned about that because if half of the business assets were taken or the business were split in divorce, the business would then go under. A prenup doesn't do that apparently, which is part of the reason I posted this. Any ideas?

when a prenup isnt an option then marriage isnt an option either...

crap..
why men believe in bullstuff like marriage still?

Go here:
http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=115398

 

[RedPill]

I'm working with a corporate attorney right now doing some junk for my own business, and next time I see him I will ask him this question verbatim. He's divorced too so he ought to know the answer to this. It might be a month or two before I meet with him again, but rest assured I will come back with something.

Granted, there are posters from several different countries and legal jurisdictions on sosuave, but I find it ridiculous that in the seven years this forum has been around nobody has posted any sort of substantiative answer to blueguy's question.

(paging Bible Belt...)

 

[jophil28]

Wydefyre says that she is so mistrusting of men that she would never plan to marry again (in other words all men a potential bastards, and not to be trusted and she seems to be comfortable with this paranoia which she has turned into self-protection)
She then berates any man who is so 'mistrusting " of women that he seeks to protect his hard work via a prenup.
Another finely (barely) disguised example of female doublethink ?

No wonder men think that women make no sense most of the time .

 

[fedagent]

Guys,

I wanted to open debate about how assets earned during marriage can be protected - if anybody here knows. Maybe I am atypical, but I am concerned about that because if half of the business assets were taken or the business were split in divorce, the business would then go under. A prenup doesn't do that apparently, which is part of the reason I posted this. Any ideas?

I had a prenup in my marriage......Basically this is how I protected my assets.

1) We specifically declared the assets that were hers and mine which we wanted protected, mainly my gold and silver collection for me.

2) We also specifically declared that any assets in an account or title belong solely to the owner designated on the account. Then I just made sure that we didn't share a checking account, we only had one shared account, and that was a savings.

Also, when broaching this subject, it's important to broach it as "keeping a third party out of something personal between us". Not as a matter of only the man protecting his assets. Let her know she can protect hers as well in the prenup. Make it a team thing from the start and you'll be more likely to sell it without a fight.

Remeber, you are always an individual first, and then a couple.

Fed

 

[Bible_Belt]

I wanted to open debate about how assets earned during marriage can be protected - if anybody here knows. Maybe I am atypical, but I am concerned about that because if half of the business assets were taken or the business were split in divorce, the business would then go under. A prenup doesn't do that apparently, which is part of the reason I posted this. Any ideas?

Like fedagent said, do everything you can to keep the property separate. Label it as individual property in the prenup. It's also better is the business is in LLC or corporate form; if so, structure it so that your spouse has absolutely nothing to do with the business: not a corporate officer, no access to funds whatsoever.

And then, as fedagent mentioned, make the prenup as fair as possible to your spouse. If she does not work, or makes a tiny salary compared to yours, then write in some agreed-upon alimony for a couple of years after the divorce, tie the length of the alimony to the length of the marriage. (The alimony is tax-deductible if not in lump sum, and it helps make the prenup stand up later in court.) She gets more payments if the marriage lasts longer. Keep joint accounts as well, but keep them fairly small. These are split equally upon divorce, as is the marital home, cars, and any other joint property. Disclose all of your assets on the prenup, label what you want to keep as individual property, and have her hire an attorney who is not affiliated with your attorney to advise her on her rights before she signs. These are the factors that courts look to when deciding if a prenup should be honored.