When A Prenup Isn't An Option

[blueguy]

I run my own successful business, and the last thing I want is for a bitter spouse to run off with all my hard work (if worse came to worse). I didn't realize there were other options to a prenup so I'm posting this here in case others weren't aware:

http://www.forbes.com/2007/02/09/prenup-amazon-revlon-ent-hr-cx_mw_0209bizofloveprenup.html

 

[Bible_Belt]

There are all kinds of prenup options that a good lawyer will consider for you. The agreement has to be fair, or a court can throw out the entire thing as unconscionable. It's a good idea to write a couple years of agreed-upon alimony into the agreement if she will depend on you for income. Otherwise, the court could throw the whole thing out, and you would be left in the same position as having no prenup at all. Also, the wife needs to get consultation from an independent attorney before signing the agreement; this is another way of making the agreement stick.

 

[RedPill]

Thanks for the link blueguy. I'm definitely not in favor of those third-party tactics; all you're doing is transferring the risk of relationship failure to another entity. Until the Limited Liabiliy Marriage becomes a reality (which it never will), I still think the best way to protect yourself should you get married is by going the extra mile and doing some extreme due diligence beforehand with the prenup. The way common law is being applied these days, you aren't even safe simply co-habiting.

 

[Wyldfire]

A better option than relying on a prenup, which even a mediocre lawyer can get thrown out, would be to only marry someone who isn't a greedy wench after living together for 5 years and don't get married unless you are prepared to be a good husband.

 

[blueguy]

I think that's actually one of the reasons I brought it up. Option #3 seems viable but even then you have to place an enourmous amount of trust in a friend moreso than your spouse, which is as the article says, irony. But is there not a way to form a corporation that is owned by a proxy company who signs a legal contract about what they will do or not do with the (your) company and assets? - the proxy company receiving all income and only sending you pre-determined paychecks while maintaining the majority of the assets inside the (your) company. Essentially it would look like you are being paid by a separate corporation. This would also be beneficial for tax reasons.

This would seem easier and more beneficial to me than to form a prenup. After all, I think the prenup only protects assets that come in before the marriage.

Anybody know of such a thing?

Also, this is interesting:
http://www.nvinc.com/canabusinessentity.htm

 

[blueguy]

A better option than relying on a prenup, which even a mediocre lawyer can get thrown out, would be to only marry someone who isn't a greedy wench after living together for 5 years and don't get married unless you are prepared to be a good husband.

I've seen the bad side of even some of the most trusting friends I've known. Everybody has it. I'd rather be safe and smart than sorry. The problem is, you never know when the person you are with will see another exciting, less traveled road and decide to take it, especially if there is huge motivation for them to do so.

 

[Wyldfire]

I don't know...if someone is so paranoid about women being this evil maybe they just shouldn't ever get married. I'm one of the non-greedy ones. I let my ex husband have everything...house, two cars, furniture. I didn't want anything but to get the hell away from him with my kids. I don't ever plan on getting married again after that experience, but if I were in the situation where I loved a guy enough to marry him if that's what he wanted and he trusted me so little to feel like he needed a prenup I not only wouldn't marry him I would end the relationship. Trust is a very big thing and no one should ever consider marrying anyone they aren't confident they can trust. I guess I'm of the opinion that if people take as much care as they should in choosing a partner they shouldn't feel like they have to resort to this kinda thing. I just don't see how there can honestly be THAT many women who would be as bad as some on here seem to believe.

 

[blueguy]

I don't know...if someone is so paranoid about women being this evil maybe they just shouldn't ever get married. I'm one of the non-greedy ones. I let my ex husband have everything...house, two cars, furniture.

I don't really care so much about material aspects as much as maintaining my way of life, or should I say freedom of time. Business gone = wasting away the rest of my life working for low wage just to get by.

but if I were in the situation where I loved a guy enough to marry him if that's what he wanted and he trusted me so little to feel like he needed a prenup I not only wouldn't marry him I would end the relationship. Trust is a very big thing and no one should ever consider marrying anyone they aren't confident they can trust.

Which is exactly why most guys don't mention prenups. The problem is that once your trust has been violated by people who you think it could not possibly be violated by, you become naturally suspicious of everybody. I am of the opinion that people do whatever makes them happy, whether it is at the expense of others.

I guess I'm of the opinion that if people take as much care as they should in choosing a partner they shouldn't feel like they have to resort to this kinda thing.

I know some people who chose good partners won't didn't have to resort to this kind of thing, and it probably won't effect them. The problem I personally face here is that the only girls I know who are like that are highly religious - or God fearing (sacrificing their happiness for God's values). They're Mormon... I'm not compatible with them.

 

[Wyldfire]

I don't really care so much about material aspects as much as maintaining my way of life, or should I say freedom of time. Business gone = wasting away the rest of my life working for low wage just to get by.



Which is exactly why most guys don't mention prenups. The problem is that once your trust has been violated by people who you think it could not possibly be violated by, you become naturally suspicious of everybody. I am of the opinion that people do whatever makes them happy, whether it is at the expense of others.



I know some people who chose good partners won't didn't have to resort to this kind of thing, and it probably won't effect them. The problem I personally face here is that the only girls I know who are like that are highly religious - or God fearing (sacrificing their happiness for God's values). They're Mormon... I'm not compatible with them.

I think it's kinda sad that you feel that way, really. It's not only religious women who are honest and trustworthy. Rural areas are loaded with women of a much higher moral fiber than what you seem to be running into. Is marriage that important to you that you couldn't eventually settle down with someone without marrying them? That might be a better option for you unless there is a reason you really don't want to do that. Even if you have kids you don't HAVE to be married...and the children can have Dad's last name. It just seems like it would be a lot less work and aggravation to just not get married.

 

[blueguy]

Edit: I would probably consider that more if it were more accepted and thus more girls who did not care about getting married (what's the reality? like 5%?).

 

[joekerr31]

my understanding,a nd i could be wrong in this as im going by canadian law, is that upon divorce you only split 50% of what you accumulated while together.

what you each came INTO the marriage with you get to keep.

so if one person comes in with a million and the other person with nothing. and upon divorce the total net worth of the marriage is two million. the you get your one million back plus you get 500,000 and your spouse gets 500,000. you only split what was accumulated during the marriage.

now, should you die then your spouse gets it all.

i think support is also calculated this way.

as for wyldfyres comment on never getting a prenup and ending a relationship if a guy even brought it up - thats ridiculous. it also tends to be the view of people with nothing to lose (ie. dont have a lot of money / assets).

you better believe if i got married id get a prenup to protect my existing net worth. im fine with splitting whatever is accumulated during hte marriage. but i aint splitting what ive saved up prior to the marriage. nor am i paying off someone elses debt that they had prior to the marriage. simple as that.

the reason prenups get such a negative hit is that 90% of the time its not in a womans favor. for most women getting married is like winning a lotto ticket - its the ultimate 'win win' for them...

1) they get kids (which for most women is their reason for living)
2) they either get a good marriage OR
3) their marriage fails and they get a steady paycheque from some unluck joe


show me a woman going in to a marriage with substantially more than the man has and ill show you a woman who unlike the other 90% of them, thinks that prenups are a great idea.

the one with more to gain will always argue that a prenup shows lack of trust. personally, i think GETTING MARRIED shows 100% trust!!!! the prenup is like insurance though - SHOULD you turn in to a crazy cheating shallow b*tch I want to make sure i'm protected. but providing that never happens, i'm prepared to be married to you forever and share everything I have with you.

and if the girl you are marrying truly loves you she will respond back by saying - "your right. if i turn in to a psycho b*tch i'd want you protected as well'.

hehehe.

 

[fedagent]

but if I were in the situation where I loved a guy enough to marry him if that's what he wanted and he trusted me so little to feel like he needed a prenup I not only wouldn't marry him I would end the relationship. Trust is a very big thing and no one should ever consider marrying anyone they aren't confident they can trust.

I think there is a better way to look at it.

A prenup is really a way of saying "If we separate, we don't want a third party or The State involved in the process, we've already agreed how to handle things".

And it isn't a matter of trust Wyldfire, it's a matter of hoping for the best but preparing for the worst. People change over their lifetimes, not having a prenup is akin to going into the ocean without a liferaft. You can't see the future and you just don't know what is going to happen.

Fed

 

[Centaurion]

I just finished my family law class, and thank god I live in a country where you don't need a prenup. It's built into the law so that every asset you had prior to marriage you get to take out, furthermore, assets acquired through heritage or money that can be traced back to heritage can also be taken out. Also gifts, where the giver says it's designated solely for you, acquired during the marriage can be taken out.

BTW, anyone have any links to some in-depth info about prenups in the US?

 

[Centaurion]

Also, if you own a property that you don't want your wife to take, you can transfer it to a good friend of yours and take out a mortage 2x the value of the property, with that property as a gurantee. Now if your wife wants that property she needs to pay off the debts attached to it, which in this case far exceeds the value of the property.

I don't know if it's legal to do this in the US, but people I know have done it in other countries.

 

[WaterTiger]

I must be wierd, because if I ever get married I'm going to insist on a prenup! What's his is his, what's mine is MINE. Whatever my company earns is also MINE! If we break up he can keep his alimony, I survived before I met him, I can survive without him.

 

[Latinoman]

Trust is a very big thing and no one should ever consider marrying anyone they aren't confident they can trust. I guess I'm of the opinion that if people take as much care as they should in choosing a partner they shouldn't feel like they have to resort to this kinda thing.

This is one of the reasons I feel VERY SAD that I might be leaving this place very soon (as I found another job that will take me away from the computer). Yep, I'm moving up more in my career!

Anyway...you are bringing "social" pressure for the men with a level of wealth in this site to marry trusting people 100%.

Most of us know who we married today based on her past behaviors and can only guess about their future behaviors. As a LOT of people change. Heck, women with their menopause thing might change as women are homonal.

I don't understand why should a person gamble ALL his hard work and wealth...and risk losing most of it to a person that came into his life AFTER.

It is not about trust or lack of. It is about NOT gambling certain things in life.

Giving advice based on how you claim to be as a woman is MISLEADING as you and I know that no every woman is the same and literally men are the ones losing in a marriage. Why should he ALSO lose in a divorce?

 

[Latinoman]

as for wyldfyres comment on never getting a prenup and ending a relationship if a guy even brought it up - thats ridiculous. it also tends to be the view of people with nothing to lose (ie. dont have a lot of money / assets).

....


the reason prenups get such a negative hit is that 90% of the time its not in a womans favor. for most women getting married is like winning a lotto ticket - its the ultimate 'win win' for them...

1) they get kids (which for most women is their reason for living)
2) they either get a good marriage OR
3) their marriage fails and they get a steady paycheque from some unluck joe


show me a woman going in to a marriage with substantially more than the man has and ill show you a woman who unlike the other 90% of them, thinks that prenups are a great idea.

the one with more to gain will always argue that a prenup shows lack of trust. personally, i think GETTING MARRIED shows 100% trust!!!! the prenup is like insurance though - SHOULD you turn in to a crazy cheating shallow b*tch I want to make sure i'm protected. but providing that never happens, i'm prepared to be married to you forever and share everything I have with you.

EXACTLY!

 

[bigjohnson]

.... and don't get married unless you are prepared to be a good husband.

Because we all know that divorce is the mans fault, duh!

 

[blueguy]

I just finished my family law class, and thank god I live in a country where you don't need a prenup. It's built into the law so that every asset you had prior to marriage you get to take out, furthermore, assets acquired through heritage or money that can be traced back to heritage can also be taken out. Also gifts, where the giver says it's designated solely for you, acquired during the marriage can be taken out.

BTW, anyone have any links to some in-depth info about prenups in the US?

It astounds me that the divorce laws in the US are still so irrational.

 

[Vulpine]

The US legal system just doesn't realize that chivalry is dead.

Courts still hold the door and pay for the meal.