What's Wrong with This Woman?

[fertileTurtle]

Studies have also been done on married and live-in couples. It's pretty interesting to see how many more advantages have been tied to marriage:

There are advantages and disadvantages both to marriage and nonmarriage. So decide on which one suits your fancy and be a man and deal with the decision you make. Life is full of ups and downs. Deal with it.

 

[STR8UP]

Studies have also been done on married and live-in couples. It's pretty interesting to see how many more advantages have been tied to marriage:

http://www.civitas.org.uk/hwu/cohabitation.php

Believe it or not, reading that article I came up with one good reason for you. I'll tell you what I came up with after I explain why this article doesn't prove your point.

The article in and of itself isn't about marriage vs. no marriage, it is about cohabitation vs. marriage.

The biggest flaw of the study is that it assumes that the cohabitators are living together as a substitute for marriage, but that's not how it works. Very few couples make a mutual decision to forego marriage but live exactly as a married couple would.

More accurately, cohabitation for most people is nothing more than an extension of courtship. It is still the "trial" phase.

To say that marriage has benefits over cohabitation without factoring in the variables is akin to saying that "women earn less pay than men do for the same work" without backing out things such as time off for pregnancy, child rearing, extra time taken off for personal reasons, etc.

The only way this would be even close to a fair comparison is if the cohabitating couples were ALL doing so as an alternative to marriage.

Which brings us to the ONE benefit that I discovered by reading that article. The one benefit is that marriage makes it "official" in the minds of the parties involved. This can potentially have benefits such as the reduced likelihood of infidelity, more incentive to "make it work", etc,

This is still a slippery slope in that it assumes that a mature couple could not make the same level of commitment OUTSIDE of marriage.

A couple of other things to note:

1) The toxic landscape a man enters when he says "I do" puts him at the mercy of the institution he has entered. He now has a HUGE incentive to make it work (regardless of how he really feels) simply because he stands to lose so much if it goes south.

2) This is all assuming that breaking up is a bad thing. If you add the "unhappy" factor on top of the divorce rate, you get maybe MAYBE 30% of couples who are truly happy together. Much better to be happily or unhappily single than unhappy in a relationship.

3) Societal influence over an unmarried couple leads to pressures that are not experienced by married couples. In other words, mom, dad, friends, family EVERYONE around is exerting pressure when a couple is "together" but not married.

Also, check out the quote from a woman toward the bottom of the page. This pretty much says it all. Shows how women KNOW that they gain the upper hand in marriage. Notice how the woman makes herself out to be a VICTIM when she doesn't get that piece of paper that gives her reign over the kingdom.

Wendy: I was wrong and I know it. All that stuff about freedom and independence are empty words... it did offer convenience and freedom all right, but only for Jim. De facto relations as an arrangement works for the males and not for us ... After six months I could realise how this relationship was putting me deeper into insecurity and exploitation. I was investing my time and effort looking after him, I was neglecting my career, and had nothing in return, except that I could leave him at any time, which for me was far from a privilege... This is not a reward for our contribution to our families but an easy escape for males...Living in this arrangement offers a lot of freedom to one partner to exploit the other.

Anyone who wants to take the chance and get married....more power to ya. Just understand that you are taking on a huge risk, and the TRUE benefits for a man are negligible.

 

[Señor Fingers]

Nice rebuttal STR8 - I knew you wouldn't disappoint, though I'm glad you admittedly found one benefit.

In the end I really cant disagree with your post either, especially this bit

Anyone who wants to take the chance and get married....more power to ya. Just understand that you are taking on a huge risk, and the TRUE benefits for a man are negligible.

This is true for the "default" state of a marriage. But if you are smart and set boundaries with a prenup, then the risk just doesnt exist anymore and the playing ground is leveled.

I'm telling you the smartest thing I ever did was sign that contract with my own company (basically stating that it would be a liability to write off half the company's funds in the case of a divorce). This way its not about trust or romance "Sorry babe, this is a contract I cannot break, and it was made before I even met you so..."

Seriously anyone who even considers marriage as a viable option should look into this loophole. No one likes to think the love of their life will screw them over and take half - but I seen it happen far too often not to take precautions.

 

[Jitterbug]

Every time the subject comes up, I ask the question "What benefit is there for a man to get married?"

Raising children.

That has always been the #1 reason for marriage - be it monogamy or polygamy, religious or plain old traditional ceremony.

STR8UP, you've been working hard all your life to build an empire. Let's say you will succeed one day. When you get old and can't look after it anymore, can you sit there and see it fall apart or get taken over by a bunch of strangers? Can you die peacefully knowing that some ****heads totally unrelated to you are gonna ruin your life work? Or would you rather pass it on to your own children? You'd want to give yourself sufficient time to raise your kids properly too, so they'd grow up to be alphas and not beta AFCs and fvck up everything you've built up.

Every True Alpha Male in history had built an empire and got himself a family to continue his legacy, so that his future generations would still rule that empire.

The kind of wacky "PUA" definition of Alpha is a bloody joke when most of these guys quote evolution psychology left right & center, while at the same time not giving one thought to having children and ACTUALLY planting their seeds and passing on their genes. Fvcking a lot of women is nice, but without some real babymaking, as far as Nature is concerned, that player is no different to an involuntarily celibate beta nerd who can't get laid to save his life. Both of them will be wiped out from the gene pool eventually.

That's the part of evolution and Nature's law that no PUA or seduction forum guru wants to touch. They'd rather preach endlessly about how attraction works and how women go for alpha males like them.

 

[STR8UP]

This is true for the "default" state of a marriage. But if you are smart and set boundaries with a prenup, then the risk just doesnt exist anymore and the playing ground is leveled..

For a guy in his 20's just starting out, or a guy who is retired and has already accomplished everything this might hold true, but not for the late 20's-40 something guy who is "on the rise".

I have worked my ass off for over a decade building my knowledge and honing my skills, but I am far from reaching my peak. Entering into marriage today would be suicide. You can't back out "forward equity". In other words, a chick who marries me would be sitting on a motherlode, although only a few nuggets have been mined. I established the foundation of the mine, and she waltzes in and is entitled to half because she came in just before the big strike?

I never gave marriage a lot of critical thought until I started listening to Leykis (I knew that I wasn't looking to GET married so I hadn't put much thought into it), when HE would pose this very same question to men and women. Every single time, the caller would get asked "What benefit is there for a man to get married", and every single time, the women would start talking about children and family and love, blah, blah, blah, and every single time you could just picture the hamster wheel spinning and gyrating off its axis inside the guys head as he hims and haws and stammers trying to think of something, ANYTHING to justify what he is considering doing.

As soon as I heard that I began to think VERY critically of marriage myself. Mind you, this was only about a year ago! It really opened my eyes. I was no longer looking at it through the lens that society sees it, but through the critical lens of a man who has nothing really to gain and a lot to lose.

Once you start seeing it as the sham it is for men and the boon it is for women, it leaves quite a sour taste in your mouth.

Raising children.

I completely agree that most men do desire to have a family one day, myself (possibly) included.

The thing is, you are falling into the trap of believing that marriage=family. Mom, dad, and kids=family. Nowhere is there a rule that marriage has to be involved.

And I know that cohabitation arrangements are fraught with pitfalls as well. That is why it saddens me that outside of moving to a foreign country, an American man doesn't have much choice but to put his balls on the chopping block and hope his woman doesn't decide to pick up the axe if he wants a family.

Which is why, by the time I hit 45, I will move to an exotic, beautiful, third world country and find a nubile 20 something tanned skin beauty to frolic with until I decide to bless her with my seed.

Life ain't so bad when you figure out ways to work around it.

 

[fertileTurtle]

Man don't stay away for too long. Dammit.

 

[speed dawg]

You want to know what the my personal benefits of marriage are? That's just it - you do not see things the way I see them, and I'd go so far to say that my mind is more black/white than yours is. Do you share my religion? My point of view? My life ambition? No, maybe, probably, yes, etc. Who knows. How can I possibly ever expect you to agree with me if we want different things in life (or at least it seems that way, I still think, deep down, you're hiding from your own failures).

I could name you 10 things that marriage is good for, but you would shoot down all of them, seeing them from your point of view ONLY. That and that alone is why I called you an idiot. Note that I said in my previous post that you were BECOMING an idiot. You haven't always been one. It's like you've let some of the people here really get to you. For the record I agree with you on most things, but you just have an extreme nature sometimes that you don't really care for.

And you whine about women alot. I kid, I kid.

Oh, yeah. Here are some things I like about marriage, just for the record:

Friendship, a structured/stable family life, twice the income and/or help, someone to talk to and do things with spur of the moment (if you married someone who has a few things in common with you), an opposite type of personality leveling me out, sex whenever I want it (albeit the same pvssy, this is a drawback but I prefer it over the alternative), and the main thing is one of a religious (Christian) background. I'll keep it to myself, as I don't care to hear the anti-Christian opinions of some of this board's patrons.

 

[STR8UP]

You want to know what the my personal benefits of marriage are? That's just it - you do not see things the way I see them, and I'd go so far to say that my mind is more black/white than yours is. Do you share my religion? My point of view? My life ambition? No, maybe, probably, yes, etc. Who knows. How can I possibly ever expect you to agree with me if we want different things in life (or at least it seems that way, I still think, deep down, you're hiding from your own failures).

We aren't discussing personal beliefs.

The question was very clear- what benefits does marriage provide for a man?

Oh, yeah. Here are some things I like about marriage, just for the record:

Friendship, a structured/stable family life, twice the income and/or help, someone to talk to and do things with spur of the moment (if you married someone who has a few things in common with you), an opposite type of personality leveling me out, sex whenever I want it (albeit the same pvssy, this is a drawback but I prefer it over the alternative), and the main thing is one of a religious (Christian) background. I'll keep it to myself, as I don't care to hear the anti-Christian opinions of some of this board's patrons.

All of which you could get WITHOUT being married. I've never been married myself, but from what I understand, the "sex whenever I want it" thing ain't happening after marriage, if anything you are much better off remaining SINGLE if you want continuous sex.

 

[Jitterbug]

The thing is, you are falling into the trap of believing that marriage=family. Mom, dad, and kids=family. Nowhere is there a rule that marriage has to be involved.

Sure, what alternative have you come up with?

Which is why, by the time I hit 45, I will move to an exotic, beautiful, third world country and find a nubile 20 something tanned skin beauty to frolic with until I decide to bless her with my seed.

You're dreaming if you think that the foreign beauty (and her family) will just give you all of that without marriage. They're a better choice than Western women because they're more traditional and marriage is a packaged deal that comes with it.

 

[speed dawg]

We aren't discussing personal beliefs..............All of which you could get WITHOUT being married. I've never been married myself, but from what I understand, the "sex whenever I want it" thing ain't happening after marriage, if anything you are much better off remaining SINGLE if you want continuous sex.

Sounds like a personal problem to me, one a DJ wouldn't have to deal with. But wait, you don't want a personal discussion.

I guess the same principles cover everybody, huh? So we now can't be personal? What about all your "personal" beliefs you defend on here every day all day? Str8up's argument = down the crapper.

 

[STR8UP]

Sounds like a personal problem to me, one a DJ wouldn't have to deal with. But wait, you don't want a personal discussion.

I guess the same principles cover everybody, huh? So we now can't be personal? What about all your "personal" beliefs you defend on here every day all day? Str8up's argument = down the crapper.

Nice strawman, dawg.

My statement was that my question in this discussion was not directed toward personal beliefs about marriage, it was about someone, ANYONE being able to find one benefit a man gets from being married. The funny thing is, I'm the only one who could come up with one!

You quoted me as saying this:

We aren't discussing personal beliefs..............All of which you could get WITHOUT being married. I've never been married myself, but from what I understand, the "sex whenever I want it" thing ain't happening after marriage, if anything you are much better off remaining SINGLE if you want continuous sex.

You put the above in bold letters, I assume to prove the point that I am interjecting a personal belief, when in fact all I was doing is relaying what I hear from the vast majority of married men.