What's Wrong with This Woman?

[LeftyLoosey]

Background:

A very good friend of mine in his mid-thirties has been divorced for nearly two years. His ex-wife was perfect until they got married, but she pulled the all-too-common switcheroo and turned into a total b1tch.

He is a natural when it comes to picking up women - in fact I've never seen him leave a bar or club without a pretty girl on his arm; and he makes it look effortless. After he separated from his wife he got right back into it, bagging ladies left right and centre.

Current Situation:

So, he's been seeing a new girl for about seven months now. She's very pretty, in great shape, and a single mom of a toddler. She's very intelligent, has a good career making decent money (high 5 figures). He says she's smarter than he is (and he doesn't say that about too many people). She's witty, a great conversationalist, and not b1tchy, but doesn't mind a good debate. He says they're also very much sexually compatible.

The kid is also great, and has taken a liking to my friend. The girl also lets him discipline the kid, and the kid respects him like a father.

She did threaten to break up with him on three separate occasions, each time because he hinted that he wasn't looking for something committed. He apologized for his behaviour each time, but I don't think he lost control of the frame because she knows he would leave her at the first indiscretion, and has many other options. Now he thinks he's ready for commitment.

So, he asked me the question, "how do I know this isn't a charade to fool me into committing to her? How do I know she's not just going to change the moment I cede my power to her by having her move in or by marrying her?"

See, he really wants to get married and start a family. That was the plan with the ex-wife, but obviously that didn't work out.

I haven't met this woman yet, but I will in the coming weeks.

All I could say to him was that I would never date, let alone marry a single mom, because it just increases the odds that there are ulterior motives. Other than that, I couldn't find any flaws with her.

What other questions should I ask? What else should he be weary of?

 

[jophil28]

Background:

A very good friend of mine in his mid-thirties has been divorced for nearly two years. His ex-wife was perfect until they got married, but she pulled the all-too-common switcheroo and turned into a total b1tch.

He is a natural when it comes to picking up women - in fact I've never seen him leave a bar or club without a pretty girl on his arm; and he makes it look effortless. After he separated from his wife he got right back into it, bagging ladies left right and centre.

Current Situation:

So, he's been seeing a new girl for about seven months now. She's very pretty, in great shape, and a single mom of a toddler. She's very intelligent, has a good career making decent money (high 5 figures). He says she's smarter than he is (and he doesn't say that about too many people). She's witty, a great conversationalist, and not b1tchy, but doesn't mind a good debate. He says they're also very much sexually compatible.

The kid is also great, and has taken a liking to my friend. The girl also lets him discipline the kid, and the kid respects him like a father.

She did threaten to break up with him on three separate occasions, each time because he hinted that he wasn't looking for something committed. He apologized for his behaviour each time, but I don't think he lost control of the frame because she knows he would leave her at the first indiscretion, and has many other options. Now he thinks he's ready for commitment.

So, he asked me the question, "how do I know this isn't a charade to fool me into committing to her? How do I know she's not just going to change the moment I cede my power to her by having her move in or by marrying her?"

See, he really wants to get married and start a family. That was the plan with the ex-wife, but obviously that didn't work out.

I haven't met this woman yet, but I will in the coming weeks.

All I could say to him was that I would never date, let alone marry a single mom, because it just increases the odds that there are ulterior motives. Other than that, I couldn't find any flaws with her.

What other questions should I ask? What else should he be weary of?

Print out Gurus last thread about qualifying women for an LTR. IT is entitled , " A Few nuggets of Truth. " Hand it to your friend and have him absorb the wisdom..

 

[STR8UP]

Print out Gurus last thread about qualifying women for an LTR.

You must have missed the first line of his post. Let me reprint it for you.

A very good friend of mine in his mid-thirties has been divorced for nearly two years. His ex-wife was perfect until they got married, but she pulled the all-too-common switcheroo and turned into a total b1tch.

And here comes the default response........

"He just didn't do a good enough job of qualifying his first wife!"

They are all on good behavior until they have the shackles on your ass.

So, he asked me the question, "how do I know this isn't a charade to fool me into committing to her? How do I know she's not just going to change the moment I cede my power to her by having her move in or by marrying her?"

How do you know? You don't. That's why you never say "I do".

 

[LeftyLoosey]

And here comes the default response........

"He just didn't do a good enough job of qualifying his first wife!"

Actually, you bring up a good point, because he DIDN'T do a good enough job qualifying his first wife. I apologize for being misleading when I described his first wife as perfect, because examined on her own, she was, but if a background check was done on her family, the risk would have become immediately apparent.

Going over Guru's checklist, I remembered that my buddy's ex-wife's mother was a COMPLETE psychopath crazy b1tch who walked all over her (second) husband.

I sent him the list. We'll see if he comes up with anything.

I agree with you that there's no way of knowing if she'll change after marriage, but some people are SET on getting married (for religious or cultural reasons) and the best we can do is help them mitigate the risk. This is one of those cases.

 

[jophil28]

I agree with you that there's no way of knowing if she'll change after marriage, but some people are SET on getting married (for religious or cultural reasons) and the best we can do is help them mitigate the risk. This is one of those cases.

What you say is true, some guys are SET on getting married.
All we can do is to offer them the skills and the wisdom to mitigate the risk of choosing badly. Gurus post is as good as it gets. Take it from an old campaigner, woman fiercely attempt to replicate their early lives and duplicate their mothers..
All the tiny clues to her future behavior are available to us IF we take the time to watch and listen and INTERPRET them for significance..

Just ignore the whiney cry babies on this site who tell you that marriage is for losers. Their breathtaking failures with women are legend.

Marriage is NOT for every man. Even Jesus said so. Some of us are NOT good at living with a woman. I fall into that category. Some guys are natural husbands, most are not. Some learn 'our way' , most do not.

 

[sodbuster]

Look at how her mother treats her husband,if the girl likes her dad,etc. THAT is his future. Meet her female friends{birds of a feather], If she doesn't have any-big red flag. "Iron sharpens Iron",so if women don't like her,they may see something a man getting in her pants doesn't.

 

[STR8UP]

Just ignore the whiney cry babies on this site who tell you that marriage is for losers. Their breathtaking failures with women are legend.

No, marriage is for gamblers who don't mind horrible odds without any real payoff aside from placating their significant other, their families, and their friends.

 

[Aenigma]

http://dapook.blogspot.com/2007/10/51-49.html

Ask yourself: is getting married in this legal and political climate a 51 move for yourself- or a 49 move?

In the vast majority of cases, as a man, its a 49 move.

 

[piranha45]

str8 and aenigma made inspirational posts, far as im concerned.

 

[Mr. Me]

"So, he's been seeing a new girl for about seven months now. "

First off, 7 months is nowhere long enough to know if she's wife material.

So let's say he tells her he's not sure yet. If she dumps him for that, good riddance to her, she's just looking to get hitched. Because if she REALLY wants to be with him, she'll do what she needs to do to be with him, no strings attached. She may moan, she may groan, but she'll take it if that's all he's offering at the moment.

Secondly: "How do I know she's not just going to change the moment I cede my power to her by having her move in or by marrying her?"

You don't necessarily cede power by living with someone. He has to know how to keep the frame going. He didn't last time around. His ex got b1tchy for a reason.

 

[Luthor Rex]

And here comes the default response........

"He just didn't do a good enough job of qualifying his first wife!"

They are all on good behavior until they have the shackles on your ass.

I've often wondered how practical it would be to lay down some serious test on a woman before you marry her to see what she'll do.

For example take a week's vacation from work but tell her you lost your job and need her support to see what she'll do.

Or maybe fake some other kind of crisis... kinda tired and not very imaginative at the moment, but y'all get the idea.

 

[speed dawg]

No, marriage is for gamblers who don't mind horrible odds without any real payoff aside from placating their significant other, their families, and their friends.

You're becoming a Grade A idiot, in addition to being ABSOLUTELY the biggest crybaby whining little b1tch on this site. I thought you were leaving...

 

[jophil28]

You're becoming a Grade A idiot, in addition to being ABSOLUTELY the biggest crybaby whining little b1tch on this site. I thought you were leaving...

He needs a rest to be sure, a very long one . His inability to write a coherent post which stays on topic and addresses the point of debate is a recent worrying development.
Rants have replaced well considered replies.

 

[scrouds]

I've often wondered how practical it would be to lay down some serious test on a woman before you marry her to see what she'll do.

For example take a week's vacation from work but tell her you lost your job and need her support to see what she'll do.

Or maybe fake some other kind of crisis... kinda tired and not very imaginative at the moment, but y'all get the idea.

You never know your friends and the ones that truly have your back till something happens, that's totally true.

But to fake it? I'm not sure about that. Life is filled with potholes. Just wait a bit and we'll be sure something comes up.

 

[STR8UP]

You're becoming a Grade A idiot, in addition to being ABSOLUTELY the biggest crybaby whining little b1tch on this site. I thought you were leaving...

Oh, I'm sorry, did I piss on your parade? Can't handle hearing modern marriage exposed for what it really is?

It is d!ckwads like you who are making this site the cesspool it is.

I post this,

No, marriage is for gamblers who don't mind horrible odds without any real payoff aside from placating their significant other, their families, and their friends.

my honest thoughts regarding marriage, which can be backed up with divorce statistics and scientific studies that show that out of the marriages that DO last a good portion of THOSE are unhappy.

You can agree with me or not agree with me regarding my interpretation of marriage stats, but anyone with half a brain who can put the argument aside can see that you, sir, are the whiny b!tch.

 

[speed dawg]

Str8up if the world believed as you do, it would tear itself apart. You don't have a clue. Good riddance to you. I just wish you would make good on your threats to leave sosuave forever.

 

[ChumpNoMore]

I've often wondered how practical it would be to lay down some serious test on a woman before you marry her to see what she'll do.

For example take a week's vacation from work but tell her you lost your job and need her support to see what she'll do.

Or maybe fake some other kind of crisis... kinda tired and not very imaginative at the moment, but y'all get the idea.

You never know your friends and the ones that truly have your back till something happens, that's totally true.

But to fake it? I'm not sure about that. Life is filled with potholes. Just wait a bit and we'll be sure something comes up.

Valid thoughts. Kind of a reverse "sh!t test" if you will...

A good low risk test is, ony after she passes the 3 month "initial qualification", is to book a vacation with her, relatively impromptu, to test her willingness to be flexible and with you.

And, you also ensure that there is a "hiccup" or obstacle in the travel or destination that arises while enroute, such as a flight full or hotel booked up; the point here is to see if she's flexible and works with you to solve the problem, or if she freaks out and blames you and offers no cooperation at the common goal.

At any rate, have a contigency plan for the problem in advance, but don't let her on to it until her reaction is adequately gauged. That way you're only out a week or so and a bit of spend in getting a better look at her true nature.

 

[STR8UP]

Str8up if the world believed as you do, it would tear itself apart. You don't have a clue. Good riddance to you. I just wish you would make good on your threats to leave sosuave forever.

180 more posts, and you won't ever have to face the discomfort of me pissing on the sh!tty institution of marriage again. Not on here anyway.

Yet another victim of the "save society at the individual's expense" claptrap. So what you are saying is that we should all run out and get married in order to save the world? Good luck dude.

Your attack on me was completely unjustified. How about instead of whaling on about how much of an idiot and a crybaby I am, why don't you try to put together a legitimate counter argument?

I'll tell you why, it's because you can't.

Every time the subject comes up, I ask the question "What benefit is there for a man to get married?"

And every single time the question is ignored. Actually, the closest thing to a real reason that gets thrown out is "So I can raise a family in a legitimate home". Of course this, at first glance SOUNDS good, but if you REALLY look at it from an objective POV it falls apart just like every other pro marriage argument. Fact is, you don't have to be husband and wife to be a mommy and daddy.

So go ahead, get pissy, throw tantrums, call me names, and shame me all you like, but at the end of the day you and just about everyone else knows I'm right, you just refuse to give up your precious beliefs to admit it.

 

[Zunder]

180 more posts, and you won't ever have to face the discomfort of me pissing on the sh!tty institution of marriage again. Not on here anyway.

Yet another victim of the "save society at the individual's expense" claptrap. So what you are saying is that we should all run out and get married in order to save the world? Good luck dude.

Your attack on me was completely unjustified. How about instead of whaling on about how much of an idiot and a crybaby I am, why don't you try to put together a legitimate counter argument?

I'll tell you why, it's because you can't.

Every time the subject comes up, I ask the question "What benefit is there for a man to get married?"

And every single time the question is ignored. Actually, the closest thing to a real reason that gets thrown out is "So I can raise a family in a legitimate home". Of course this, at first glance SOUNDS good, but if you REALLY look at it from an objective POV it falls apart just like every other pro marriage argument. Fact is, you don't have to be husband and wife to be a mommy and daddy.

So go ahead, get pissy, throw tantrums, call me names, and shame me all you like, but at the end of the day you and just about everyone else knows I'm right, you just refuse to give up your precious beliefs to admit it.

In the nautral world there is sort of an natural ordered chaos, as there must be for life on earth to survive.

In the man-made world well, their is this invented self imposed ceremony -followed by validation certificate - thing called "marriage".
What there is that is not of the natural world, can only end in umitigated unordered chaos. Extrapolate this out to anything you want, motor-vehilces, cities, civilizations - they rise and fall, are rebuilt and destroyed again. Unordered chaos.

In 3000ad, assuming a manmade bomb/s hasn't blown the world to smithereens, it is a debatle point whether the institue of marriage will still exist - at least in its monogamous format ideal.

It is an udebatable point that men will still be seeking out many and varied women to fvck.

 

[Señor Fingers]

"What benefit is there for a man to get married?"

Citizenship for starters - if you are clever though you will run a DBA (costs like 60 bucks to set up) even if you do nothing with it, so you can build a contractual prenup before you meet Ms. Right. This can at least protect your assets, and at best get you some leverage should things go awry in the marriage. This is pretty crucial if you expect to have kids in the equation.

Of course one could argue that not getting married to begin with protects your ass, but thats not the case in every state. There are laws which will treat your union as a marriage after a certain amount of cohabitation, so its not as foolproof as people think.

Studies have also been done on married and live-in couples. It's pretty interesting to see how many more advantages have been tied to marriage:

http://www.civitas.org.uk/hwu/cohabitation.php

Of course you can pick it apart any way you want. "Value" is a pretty relative term thats tossed around liberally here. But fact is we don't all value the same things, and for you to assume the worth of institutions and ideals to everyone else is a pretty arrogant (and ignorant) claim.

At the end of the day none of use can declare the "whole truth" on any particular facet of life. Nobody's got the 'patent' on what works for everyone.

All we got is angles, and the guy who is capable of seeing a situation, and his very life from as many angles as possible is MILES ahead of the dude who only wants to see things one way.