Whats going on?!

[organizedconfusion]

Re: just for the record... ROLLO THOMASSI RESPONSE

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Originally posted by organizedconfusion it's a component in a relationship, but theres much more in order to making it work...[/B]

And are you are basing your presumptions of this from the 'runaway' success of you "relationship" with the 12 year old or the one you had from age 17 to 20?

That was my problem in the past though..i ALWAYS had to have the power in the relationship and seldom did i compromise or really listen to her needs entirly.
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Perhaps you'd like to enlighten us as to what the 'needs' of a 12 y.o. girl are and how they are similar to the 'needs' of an adult woman?


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i decided that after the last one and how hurt i was by it and how stubborn and set in my ways i can be, i must change things first in order to have better relationships..where most suffer from having no control, i suffered from wanting too much control over things.Being the dominate part and always insisting on things my way. Sure, it's an alpha trait or whatever you guys wanna call it, but it's only gotten me nothing but trouble in the past.
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According to your epmphatic testimony, your last 'real' relationship ended 5 years ago when you were 20 and began when you were 17 - I would assume immediately after your first 'real' LTR with the 12 y.o. Are you saying that in those five years you discovered that you needed to change your personality to better identify with and accomodate women? How many women have you been with in this 5 year stretch and how did they respond to this
new' approach? You haven't mentioned anything about your current personal life; could it be that the reason you feel so strongly about your prepubescent and adolscent 'dating' experiences is predicated on these being your only available frame of reference? If your understanding is as accurate as you profess, why then haven't you settled down, "ended the game" so to speak, with your soulmate at 25? One would think that a man such as yourself would have women lined up around the block to be pampered, romanced and "compromised" with.


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I have had plenty of experiances with woman and i know enough that alot of this PUA type stuff WILL get your foot in the door in terms of sex and the initial attraction phases of a short-term relationship...but in the long run , these tactics don't work forever. Intitial attraction is nothing like an emotional attatchment that has been built up through the years of trial and effort,good and bad times, thick and thin. Relationships last because of the effort that both parties contribute, and fail when they don't.
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According to my watch, you have 5 years of unverified experience. Running away from home and couch surfing at 15 doesn'tmake you an acredited marriage counselor. That said, I do agree with what you've posted here. PUA skills are like giving dynamite to children. You can indeed perfect a routine that will, with a certain degree of predictability get you laid and in the door. In fact I all too often post threads about the necessity to devlop the DJ mindset so as to avoid the pitfalls of relapsing into AFC mental schemas, ONEitis and passive supplication once guys are in the door. But what you've posted thus far smacks of just this very relapse. DJ mentality is positive masculinity, and this means living up to a woman's expectation of you to be the confident decision maker

The Law of Equal Value Contribution:
In order for a relationship to work in the long term, both people must contribute roughly equal amounts of value to the other person's life. If they don't, the person contributing more value will become dissatisfied because they know they could get more value in a relationship than they are getting. They will then subconsciously or consciously sabotage and destroy the relationship.

The Cardinal Rule of Relationships
In any relationship, whether familial, personal, romantic or business, the person with the most power is the one who needs the other the least.


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geez, holding back as in forcing yourself to
hold things back that you really want to share with her..or things you want to experiance with her but are too afraid to in fear of looking like a chump for doing it..
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Things you really want to share with her such as? It's far too easy to be nebulous here. Being a DJ doesn't mean to live a 'false life', it's pretty self-evident that this will never work in the long term. Rather it's to remake yourself in a positive, genuine manner. The problem you have with this is that it doesn't fit in with your concept of patronizing and identifying with women in order for them to trade their intimacy for it.


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talk about things like when she says shes 'okay' when theres clearly something wrong, when she says leave me alone but really means 'hold me'...
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Of course the other option is she does think you're a creep and want's to be left alone, but this interpretation never enters your consideration because you've been socialized to assume the feminine perspective.


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Besides always better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all.
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How naively quaint and wrong. So essentially you're saying that if you could see the future and knew with %100 certainty that a woman would betray and leave you after 3 or 4 years you'd still begin the relationship?

Better to ask for forgivness than ask for permission.



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Or how she likes your boy that continuously calls women “chicks” and “broads” or my favorite “stunts”.
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And in the real world this'll be the guy she'll cheat on you with because he retains the confidence and identity you modify and throw away in order to 'compromise' for her. This guy doesn't compromise and for that your girlfriend will suck him off in his monster truck.


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oh give me a break with the mumbo jumbo about how all girls are attracted to those ridiculous arch-types... and girls do 'act' but it's not like it's a 24/7 deal with i suspect most guys are in hopes of meeting woman. mr.'alpha' when they're really mr.dorkos inside.
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See, the problem with this logic is that 'most guys' are like you. They believe in the Soulmate Myth, they believe in the Savior Trap, they believe that the more they identify with a woman the strong their connection will be. They'll voluntarily surrender their ambitions and alter or discard any dream they had to merit her intimacy in order to escape this popularized notion that "they'll live a life of lonliness and quite desperation" into their old age and die unloved in some assisted living facility.

More guys are AFCs than are DJs courtesy of this constant state of feminization in western culture. This is why you rely on cliched one-liners pulled from what some teenage girl told you or the latest romantic comedy you wen to see with that girl you were trying to show your 'feminine side' to in the hopess that she'd appreciate this and want to fvck you. In fact far too many PUAs are themselves AFCs and only revert bact to this ince they do have a foot in the door.

DJ mentality is a slap in the face to guys like you because it forces you to confront these very ego-invested beliefs that you think 'ought' to be true, but aren't often evidenced in womens behaviors, so there is a seed of doubt. It's like telling a mother that they're not raisng their child right or you're not living your life correctly - it's very accusatory and self-judgmental and necessarily so. This is then perceived as arrogance and thus the AFC considers it an attack. The response to which is almost universally a rationalization for their own mindset and a seeking for a common affirmation from those AFC who'll agree with him.


__________________
"Why do my eyes hurt?"

"Because you've never used them before."

 

[organizedconfusion]

Rollo Tomassi
Moderator

Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 759
Age: 37
continued

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great.. more card-board cut out 'alpha' drones..whats worse then an AFC? an afc acting like he's alpha..
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..but at some point, that persona, those walls, it all has to come down eventually- in order to be the genuine person you are
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And who is this 'genuine person' of whom you speak? What constitutes a genuine persona or personality? I'm not sure how educated your past 2 "meaningful" relationships made you regarding personality psychology, but fortunately for you this just so happens to be my area of specialization in my post-grad work, so allow me to illustrate a few things for you.

Personality is not static. Get that in your head right now, because from what you've posted thus far it appears that subscribe to a common fallacy. You are who you say you are. There are influencing factors in your experience and in your reality that are variables in determining your personality. You are not the same personality with, and you exhibit different behavioral characteristics with your mother than you do your boss or your best friend - and this difference persists between girls you're sarging, girlfriends you might have and your wife.

Personality is also mutable over time. I am not the same person that my wife married 9.5 years ago or even 5 years ago. There are definite traits and characteristics we carry over into our subsequent personalities over time and/or in response to particular settings and conditions, but to suggest that one person is genuine and another isn't is complletely subjective. Who am I or who are you to determine whether a guy who's decided he needs a change in his life and has decided to change his mind about himself and begins to adopt a more masculine, 'alpha' mindset (which is reflected in his behavior) is being 'genuine.' This forum and others like it are filled with guys who used to be insecure, soft-spoken loosers who decided to change their minds about themselves and found success not only with women (as a by-product), but also in business and many other aspects of their lives. They made a conscious choice to become someone else and to become someone better than what they were. Are they 'playing Alpha'? Does it matter if they happen to be more comfortable than you with faking it till they make it?

"We are what we consistently do." - Aristotle


__________________
"Why do my eyes hurt?"

"Because you've never used them before."

 

[organizedconfusion]

dude...you closed the thread before i even got to speak my
point of view?

Look Kojack-

According to your epmphatic testimony, your last 'real' relationship ended 5 years ago when you were 20 and began when you were 17 - I would assume immediately after your first 'real' LTR with the 12 y.o. Are you saying that in those five years you discovered that you needed to change your personality to better identify with and accomodate women? How many women have you been with in this 5 year stretch and how did they respond to this

I know how to create , maintain and sustain attraction, but
after the last relationship- yes, five years ago; it was like a
black cloud that hovered in the background and was a
source of negativity that would emerge when i got too
close to someone- yes , i still got girls. yes, i still go laid.
How many? god knows, i am not vain enough to keep count.
The truth is, getting girls and getting laid were the LEAST
of my problems. Unlike most people, it wasn't the center of my
life.I have been plagued by emotional issues and problems
for as long as i have known and i still have a lot of issues
to deal with..woman, sex and dating is at the bottom of
my priorities list.
Don't assume that everyone that
questions or has different view points on the DJ teachings
is an immediate 'failure' or AFC with woman.
I been through that phase a long time ago.
Personaly, i don't give a flying f*ck about woman,
and they don't seem to care. All i know is that if i
create intense feelings inside her, all i need to do is
maintain how it without tainting her image in her mind of me.
That's it.

Why do does everyone assume that they themselves are
the super gods concerning woman and think that everyone
elses either sucks at it or is an AFC?

I have no problems with meeting woman,
i have more problems with my own issues.
Woman are easy- my issues...not soo easy..

 

[organizedconfusion]

Originally posted by frivolousz21
organized-

I wonder if they even read what you wrote?

It seems our words and words of others get so twisted and changed its amazing

it's funny how they unlock the thread to get their point across
and then close it right away...it's total censorship

 

[organizedconfusion]

How many women have you been with in this 5 year stretch and how did they respond to this
new' approach? You haven't mentioned anything about your current personal life; could it be that the reason you feel so strongly about your prepubescent and adolscent 'dating' experiences is predicated on these being your only available frame of reference? If your understanding is as accurate as you profess, why then haven't you settled down, "ended the game" so to speak, with your soulmate at 25? One would think that a man such as yourself would have women lined up around the block to be pampered, romanced and "compromised" with.

and where are the ladies for such a man like yourself?
oh great jedi? seems to me like you got all the answers at 37..why aren't YOU married instead of questioning the love life of a 25 year old?

 

[KarmaSutra]

Originally posted by organizedconfusion
and where are the ladies for such a man like yourself?
oh great jedi? seems to me like you got all the answers at 37..why aren't YOU married instead of questioning the love life of a 25 year old?

Now I'm forced to interject.

I need to make 2 points:

1. You really need to take a class on third grade grammar. Yours sucks.

2. Follow that lesson up with a reading class. Rollo is fvcking married and has life experience under his belt which gives him a unique point of view to counter your excuses for not wanting to be a man.

Work on those two basic skills then maybe you can get a woman with substance to return a phone call from your illiterate a$$.

 

[Desdinova]

it's funny how they unlock the thread to get their point across
and then close it right away...it's total censorship

I closed the thread. Mods can respond to closed threads.

If this one turns into another flame war, I'll close it too.

 

[DoubleA]

Ok

Kid,

Relax.

I read your post. I have no quarrel with it. But understand, you have posted a thread concerning Oneitis on this forum. The Don Juan Mature Men Forum. It’s not going to fly.
What were you trying to accomplish? Are you trying to put these guys on notice what it takes to be in a real relationship?

Me personally, I think you’re some female who caught wind of this site because your BF was dumb enough let you gain access. For a male, this shouldn’t be an issue for you because either know what it takes for a LTR. But this is a site for men who want to better themselves as a whole. Focusing in on relationships isn’t the sole purpose of the Mature Man forum. Maybe you’re not a female. I have been wrong before. Maybe you want to be single for a while and feel like playing the field.

But if you’re a man, why play martyr? This site isn’t teaching Men, which planet the opposite sex comes from. It’s for guys who have been enlightened on a new way of thinking.

The moderator rules this land. In this case Tomassi chooses what moves are made on this chessboard. Is your post relevant to the teachings of DJing. Absolutely not. Was it a reality check? It’s possible. Did Antonio Davis’ wife have the right to get in a Bulls fan’s face, eventhough he didn’t post any physical harm to her or their kids? No. So why get upset at what someone says, when the forum clearly was made for “DJs at least 25 years old to discuss problems, situations, and techniques UNIQUE to older and more mature men.”

Why not advocate for a forum concerning relationships? I’d say go for it, but I think you’re barking up the wrong tree with “when you meet that one girl you fall on LOVE with, things like compromise, understanding, patience and sacrifice comes into play.”

These dudes aren’t trying to fall in love…lol

 

[organizedconfusion]

You know what?


-THIS WAS THE ORIGINAL POINT I WAS TRYING TO MAKE-

The Law of Equal Value Contribution:
In order for a relationship to work in the long term, both people must contribute roughly equal amounts of value to the other person's life. If they don't, the person contributing more value will become dissatisfied because they know they could get more value in a relationship than they are getting. They will then subconsciously or consciously sabotage and destroy the relationship.



See, the problem with this logic is that 'most guys' are like you. They believe in the Soulmate Myth, they believe in the Savior Trap, they believe that the more they identify with a woman the strong their connection will be. They'll voluntarily surrender their ambitions and alter or discard any dream they had to merit her intimacy in order to escape this popularized notion that "they'll live a life of lonliness and quite desperation" into their old age and die unloved in some assisted living facility.

More guys are AFCs than are DJs courtesy of this constant state of feminization in western culture. This is why you rely on cliched one-liners pulled from what some teenage girl told you or the latest romantic comedy you wen to see with that girl you were trying to show your 'feminine side' to in the hopess that she'd appreciate this and want to fvck you. In fact far too many PUAs are themselves AFCs and only revert bact to this ince they do have a foot in the door.

DJ mentality is a slap in the face to guys like you because it forces you to confront these very ego-invested beliefs that you think 'ought' to be true, but aren't often evidenced in womens behaviors, so there is a seed of doubt. It's like telling a mother that they're not raisng their child right or you're not living your life correctly - it's very accusatory and self-judgmental and necessarily so. This is then perceived as arrogance and thus the AFC considers it an attack. The response to which is almost universally a rationalization for their own mindset and a seeking for a common affirmation from those AFC who'll agree with him.



first of all , don't assume to you know me- just because you may have been through those issues yourself that everyone must have also. People that usually preach about certain topics usually do so after having gone that route themselves at one time or
another.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

ORGANIZED: I'll be the first to admit - as I've done in countless posts - that I don't espouse all of what I do because I got everything right from the start, but because I got everything wrong. I learned, I woke up, I took the red pill and started observing what people did rather than believing what people said.

I understand where you're at and I've counseled guys just like you for 4 years now. I've counseled men in their mid 60s who still placate to their wives in the hopes that by saving them, placating to them or identifying with them they'll achieve the intimacy they've missed out on or have been blackmailed by for 20-30 years. I see these grown men cry their eyes out to me or throw up their hands in frustration because they never got the simple fact that they needed to be the 'man' in their marriages.

I've personally known 2 men in the last 3 years that have taken their own lives because they believed in the soulmate mythology, did everything any woman ever 'told' them was expected of them and literally couldn't live without their wife or girlfriend when they finally pulled away from them.

I know and have counseled more men than I care to recall who married single mothers - some with 3 children from 2 fathers - because these women were the only thing they had going and now live perpetually depressed lives, prefering to work overtime than face their home environments, because they believed precisely the same emasculated nonsense you typed in your initial post.

I've been married 9.5 years to the same woman who could still model swimsuits and is medical professional, as well as being a fantastic mother to our 7 y.o. daughter, and I have guys on this forum and in my peer counseling sessions constantly ask me "how did I find a woman like this?" or tell me outright that they want what I have. I dont post this to gloss myself, but rather to show myself as an example of a complimentary way of maintaining a healthy relationship. Men and women have precious few positive models for masculinity and femininity to devlop healthy roles to emmulate. I have a satisfying, loving marriage that naturally fosteres mutual respect between my wife and myself. She understands what I expect from her (yes, thats right, men can expect quite a bit from women) and I know what she expects from me. We fulfill complimentary roles for each other and it works. I am the primary decision maker in our marriage, not because I ruthlessly enforce my domineering will and overlord her, but because leadership is what she expects from her husband. Sometimes that means I make mistkaes; more often than not I exercise sound, pragmatic judgement - either way she understands and respects this.

We have a mutual understanding of our roles which would be destroyed were I to take your advice and back down in a pandering compromise. My wife asks my permission to spend any money exceeding $100. Not because she quails in fear of me, but because she respects her husband. Most times I'm very accomodating, but sometimes I say 'no' and for no other reason than I am exercising my reponsibility to be the authority in our marriage. Most men wont do this because they subscribe to this egalitarian model of complete equality in their marriages witn no recognition or appreciation of the complimentary natures of their genders. These are the guys who'll ask their wive's permission to hang out with their friends, or are "lucky their wives allow them to watch football on Sunday." These are the same men who ask me "how I got my wife to be how she is." To which I tell them that I don't DO anything to make her BE how she is; I simply assumed the postively masculine role that they should've stepped into in the beginings of their marriages.

A woman's primary drive is for security; financial, emotional, practical, familial security. This is borne out in her biology, aculturalization and socialization. When a man is unable or unwilling to step into a masculine role of security provision, confedently and decisively, she will compensate for this by assuming the responsibilities of attaining and maintaining that security. This may mean she 'cheats', it may mean she holds down a second job or it may mean she assumes the role of "wearing the pants" in her marriage. She will substitute her influence to compensate for a deficit in the masculine. Similarly men will compensate for deficits in the feminine; more often than not this is manifested in men's interest in pornography.

The surest way for me to lose my wife's respect would be for me to adopt this policy of supplication and excessive compromise, and this is where I think you make your main mistake. It's very easy to cross over into this feminized understanding of what you percieve women want, judging from what they say rather than making your estimations from observing their behaviors. When I aquiesce to her, it puts the burden of the masculine responsibility of decisiveness on her and she will percieve this as a deficit she needs to compensate for.

 

[organizedconfusion]

..i think you are mistaken in my defintion of compromise, sacrifice and understanding. I for one am 25, sacrifice means me staying
home sometimes to hang out with her instead of my friends
to watch a chick flick..i don't mind really as long as if it's some of the time..not compromising my entire identity and belief
system just to be with her.

Or compromise.. i never like to do things one way,but
this one time i will compromise.sacrifice, meaning to me-
i might have to stop disguting bad habits or swearing all the time or getting into situations where i might get into trouble.
understanding as in i understand that sometimes she
can be a b*tch and i won't take it personally, but that
dosen't mean i'll take abuse,it means that i won't make a big
deal about it.Understanding as in , dude, she has a life too
and i can't just put her on lock down.

Don't assume that, i say those things does it mean that
i am selling my soul to her by any means because it's not
true. I am against everything you just posted about supplicating,
worshiping and putting her on somekind of pedastal and
giving up power just to be with her.
If anything , i have control issues and like i said before
'it's my way or no way' mentality that has gotten me into
trouble and the complete refusal to think otherwise.

I never even premoted that type of behaviors(afc) in the first place. Nor did i say anything about being feminized or stepping into her role.

i never said i believed in soulmates either, the 'one' meant to me
as in the 'one' i settle down with, not the 'one' that god and the
galaxys and the moon aranged in a line every 100 years so we
can be together crap.

As in being 'the man' in the relationship...
trust me, if you knew how much of a control freak i am,
you'd understand that it would be healther for me to let off
some slack just a little bit..it's proven to be unhealthy in the past..

i just think you totally mistaken my etire post,
you basicly said what i just said in a more elaborate manner.
Nothing in my initial post said anything about giving up my power,
supplicating, worshiping or anything else that even relates to
lowering ones status in a relationship.


Quite honestly , i have issues..
woman/dating is the very last thing on my list
of prorities right now in my life to deal with. Seriouslly, i am soo lost in terms of where the hell my life is heading that i could see a
HB10 and not really care because at this point in time, i really
can't be into any kind of fling or relationship, because of bigger
things to deal with. I've hurt alot of girls in the past ..intentionally.
Because i thought it was giving me back the power.

most guys in my shoes would most likely feel the need to pursue
a relationship in order to make them feel better but then
only causing more problems...

i for one rather be alone and deal with that situation.

I am not afraid to be alone, i am afraid that the rage inside
of me will destroy every relationship i will encounter,
i know it will if i don't get a handle on it ASAP...

anger directed towards woman being one of them...

 

[organizedconfusion]

if anyone of you guys are trying to be a "man"
with the sole purpose of just being attractive to
woman and how you are seen by woman...
you might have to rethink your motives.
being with a woman is a part of being a man,
but it's NOT the only thing that makes you a man...

IF YOU ARE A MAN WHEN YOU ARE WITH A WOMAN-
ARE YOU A MAN WITHOUT ONE?

A WOMAN CANNOT COMPLETE A MAN-
IF THAT MAN IS NOT YET COMPLETE HIMSELF

that means if you have all these issues and gapping
holes in your ego concerning whatever..
she will NOT complete you as a person, all you
are doing is using her to fill in the gap where you lack;
for some people it's alcohal,drugs,whatever.

and if any of you newbies need a book to tell you how woman are
without actually have even been with a woman..
i really suggest you go out and be with a few of them
before trying to discover the cosmic miracle mystery
behind them. I can almost guarantee that you'll
learn everything you need to know in after about
a few weeks by just hanging around them and being
with some of them.Now don't get married/fall in love or
look for a "mommy" now..just get your feet wet,test the waters..



relying soley on DYD ,SS,RSD,MM material without having
some actual experiance under your belt with woman first
is not the best route to take.

experiance lays the foundation,Material polishs it off
and completes it the process.

trial & error with girls are the best tools to make you
become more and more resiliant towards them,
i think too many guys are afraid to get their hearts
broken or egos bruised so they don't even try anymore.
they'd rather read an e-book or practice standing taller
of making "faces" in the mirror.

you can read about how to "pretend" to be a man
OR you can actually do things that naturally make you into
a man...that will make you more attractive as a person
overall.


..i think far too many guys want to improve themselves for the
sole purpose of just being attractive in a womans eyes, when
in reality , they should be doing it to get a better quality of life-
sure getting girls is a part of that equation..but it should'nt
be the entire thing...

 

[SonOfTheMostHigh]

Originally posted by organizedconfusion
..i think far too many guys want to improve themselves for the
sole purpose of just being attractive in a womans eyes, when
in reality , they should be doing it to get a better quality of life-
sure getting girls is a part of that equation..but it should'nt
be the entire thing...

I dont think you understand the mentality of this forum at all... THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THIS FORUM IS ABOUT, what you just said "they should be doing it to get a better quality of life"

Dude, to many guys, who doesn't want a girl giving them affection and physical sex? You might be one of those people that don't need sex or can go without for months or years on end, but other guys want to live their life.

It's about self-improvement and becoming attractive from direct practicing and "trying stuff out" as you so put it, and as a side-effect. Guys may suggest DYD, and other guys but everyone needs to start somewhere! Especially when you get guys who are afraid of people and haven't socialized seriously with anyone in months or years because of their upbringing, or have only ever had a few relationship with girls TOTALLY BY LUCK and not by understanding how to maintain relationships.

Next, lots of guys just have **** BORING personalities, think about this for a moment, if you took some hot guys, some average guys and some ugly guys give them all a mix of crappy traits like being shy/afraid of people, can't even think of anything to talk about, or are plain boring people, give off negative depressed vibes in their body language, have a weak wimpy voice showing low self-esteem, etc, (and they are oblivious to this) and put them into a room and told them to interact with other people or even just girls, tell me from a human perspective who would naturally like/love/want to be around these kinds of people, or would they turn you off from being friends and socializing with them? Now just imagine what WOMEN think about these guys who are:

1) Cowards
2) have no self-esteem confidence
3) Needy / Desperate
4) Can't hold a conversation to save their life
5) Always putting themselves down
6) Not interested in dancing, going out to restaurants, doing ANYTHING or if they do the do the similar to the same thing all the time, boring the hell out of anyone.

Some guys... are totally oblivious to things you and other "real men" pick up on, they just "dont get why other people find it so interesting or so fun to go out and dance, talk to people and get wasted at clubs", the do not all have the same interest or inclination or enjoyment of things women and outgoing/social men do. They have to "unlearn" these dislikes and acquired opinions of them if they ever hope to be interesting to many women, they are in short boring unlikable people that would like to live a better life, even if that means having to 'fake it' for a while before they adjust and get used to it and start to enjoy it change their opinions about the things that "weren't them".

How you behave is directly correlated to your quality of life, Now how many guys spend inordinate amounts of time living with their personal demons they acquired from growing up? LOTS OF GUYS, tonnes of guys, you have hot guys that are socially inept and can't even talk to girls, you have FAT guys that were teased and lost a tonne of weight later in life but still have "fat shy guy" issues, or self-esteem issues that need to be worn down for him to interact with people again.

They want to change it because whether a girl decides to she likes you enough to f'ck you or stay with you is DIRECTLY related to how you act around her, sure she can leave for her own reasons, but come on when a girl leaves it has to do with her not feeling it for you anymore, many guys are totally oblivious to how they sabatoge their relationships, ever hear women complain abou why they left men? They will tell you the exact reasons why, and a lot of it has to do with the man stopping everything that made him so attractive in the first place (i.e. taking her out, being a fun guy, cracking jokes, having a zest for life, having his own passions, not being needy, sticking up for himself, showing her he won't put up with bad behaviour because there are tonnes of other women that are ready to f'ck him).

I've heard countless stories from exgirlfriends, stories of miserable wives and stories from single mom's and how they f'd up their lives by being with guys that were 1) irresponsible and 2) were so totally out of touch with meeting their needs. 3) Depressed or natural killjoy men with no personality or zest for life, they don't want to do anything but watch TV or play video games... is that healthy for a long term relationship or gasp.. marriage?

A lot of the women complain that the man stops being fun once he gets the girl.

Lots of guys:

-Had messed up childhoods
-Got bad genes that tended them towards shyness/depression
-Were teased / bullied / whatever as a kid
-became too addicted to things rather then people (i.e. became too obsessed with things like, computers, knowledge,science, hobbies, cars, whatever, etc)
-have other issues.
-Developed unhealthy perspectives (i.e. I will do anything for sex, because my self-esteem sucks so bad I can't believe I can find another girl).

 

[organizedconfusion]

agreed, i think one must change to improve the overall
quality of his life for himself -NOT just to get girls.

getting girls is a part of it , yes- but it should'nt be the entire
reason just for change.

For me personally, getting girls was natural- but i didn't pay attention to my personal issues along the way and as
i progressed into early adult hood, issues came up that i
didn't deal with long ago and now it's causing alot of negativity
and screwing other aspects of my life up.
For me personally, girls are my crutch to facing my responsabilities as an young adult.
I think that's why i hold alot of resentment towards them...
i kinda blame them for sidetracking me, when in reality
i have a choice wether or be with them..
For a long time i'd rather go out and drink and party or
get girls when i should be studying or going back to
school learning a trade... i also don't deal with anger issues and my inability to compromise & dealing with other people without being overly assertive & violent.

i guess while most guys struggle to more more aggressive
and confident- i am desperatly trying to tone it down 'just a little
bit'.

 

[organizedconfusion]

anyways, about the original post about relationships
needing more then what you'd expect is because-
for me personaly, it seems a little stressfull.
it's not always smooth sailing and it dosen't always go your
way.it dosen't mean giving up your power or worshiping
her in any way..it just takes alot of time and patience
sometimes to stick through the hard times and
get through it.like anything in life nothing is perfect,
while Rollo may have an awesome woman that
is cool with the fact the he is in charge, not all girls
are as smart or concious of their roles as woman in relationships.
I have encoutered girls before that just wouldn't comply to
the way i want things to be and there were alot of fights
and arguements. thats why i say sometimes compromise
has to take place, instead of having it my way or no way
sometimes you need to hear her out.There must be equal
contribution into the relationship i say.