What's an AFC, REALLY?

[Truman181]

First I want to say that I am well familiar with this website and the term AFC. I've been a member of this forum for over 4 years in one form or another...

AFC is a term that gets tossed around loosely here. For instance, every time I make a mistake and post about it, Noobs will rush in to label my behavior AFC. I like to think of myself of a DJ on the learning curve. Sure I make mistakes along the way but I would hardly consider myself AFC.

Since finding the Community and this website, I've tripled the number of women I've gone out with and or bedded. Among my circle of friends, I consider myself one of the best at meeting and attracting GOOD LOOKING women.

Yet on the other hand, I suck at relationships. I'm very wayward and set in my ways. Women don't stick around too long.

So I guess my question is does it make me an AFC that I always get broken up with? Or am I an up and coming DJ because I am good at meeting and attracting women?

What do you guys think? At what point are you no longer an AFC?

 

[Victory Unlimited]

Yo Truman181,


The seduction forum dictionaries will probably give you a far different definition, but these days the definition has morphed into something like THIS:

AFC: A "name" that Newbies, Wannabes, and Keyboard Jockeys-in Denial disatisfied with their OWN lives love to call those who have actually had THE BALLS to post about how they have actually GOTTEN OFF THEIR ASSES and TRIED their best to win REAL battles in these relationship wars.

And to answer your other question:

A man is no longer an AFC whenever he decides what he wants out of life-----whenever he decides to take control of his life--------and whenever he holistically loves, appreciates, estimates, and TRUSTS himself enough whereas the opinions of other people have absolutely NO EFFECT on how much he values himself.


Soldier on. :yes:

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Read these threads:

Qualities of the AFC

AFC Social Conventions

The Self-Righteous AFC

The AFC C0ck Blocker

The 'Mature' AFC

Despite what anyone else wants to redefine the abstract of what an AFC is, an AFC is NOT a stereotypic nerd. There's a popular trend to think of an AFC as the new Geek or Dork, but it's not a category or type of person. Rather it's a mindset; there are a great many successful men, model quality good-looking men, celebrities, and a majority of mPUAs who are consummate AFCs. To be an AFC is not a position of status, it is a condition in thinking.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

AVERAGE
average skills with women, average salary, average outlook on life, average family, average experience, average background, average number of sexual partners, average hopes, average dreams, average approval from others, average expectations of life, average intelligence, average looks.

in ANY group (your work, your church group, the gym, this board) MOST people, by statistical definition, are average.

FRUSTRATED
at his life, at his social level, at his economic level. Wants to be and achieve more than average, but doesn't know how. Knows that what he has, he doesn't really want, and what he wants, he not only doesn't have but doesn't know how to get. Someday his ship will come in. Maybe with a new job. Maybe with a new car. Maybe with a new President. Always something or somebody outside himself holding him back.

CHUMP

Won't take responsibility. Won't try and fail in order to learn and try and get better results next time. Still operates out of the infant model of the world. (I want so please give me). Gets angry at other people for his lack. Is one of the faceless, mindless, dependably reactionary masses that buys the products, the ideas, and the lifestyles that the elites sell. A follower.

It has been shown time and time again that when groups are selected at random, they will naturally evolve into self chosen categories. Leaders (alpha) and followers (AFC). Even when they select the lowest AFC's from other groups, and put them together, out of the group of AFC's will emerge a leader, and the others will voluntarily AFC's. (King of the AFC's so to speak).


But before we get all excited to point out our superiority to the average dude on the street, In humility, I shall quote the mythical (IMO) Jesus:

"Take the plank out of your eye before pointing out the speck in your neighbors."


There but by the grace of God go I.

 

[Warrior74]

AVERAGE
average skills with women, average salary, average outlook on life, average family, average experience, average background, average number of sexual partners, average hopes, average dreams, average approval from others, average expectations of life, average intelligence, average looks.

in ANY group (your work, your church group, the gym, this board) MOST people, by statistical definition, are average.

FRUSTRATED
at his life, at his social level, at his economic level. Wants to be and achieve more than average, but doesn't know how. Knows that what he has, he doesn't really want, and what he wants, he not only doesn't have but doesn't know how to get. Someday his ship will come in. Maybe with a new job. Maybe with a new car. Maybe with a new President. Always something or somebody outside himself holding him back.

CHUMP

Won't take responsibility. Won't try and fail in order to learn and try and get better results next time. Still operates out of the infant model of the world. (I want so please give me). Gets angry at other people for his lack. Is one of the faceless, mindless, dependably reactionary masses that buys the products, the ideas, and the lifestyles that the elites sell. A follower.

It has been shown time and time again that when groups are selected at random, they will naturally evolve into self chosen categories. Leaders (alpha) and followers (AFC). Even when they select the lowest AFC's from other groups, and put them together, out of the group of AFC's will emerge a leader, and the others will voluntarily AFC's. (King of the AFC's so to speak).


But before we get all excited to point out our superiority to the average dude on the street, In humility, I shall quote the mythical (IMO) Jesus:

"Take the plank out of your eye before pointing out the speck in your neighbors."


There but by the grace of God go I.

Very good post. The sin is knowing your an afc and knowing what it is and still wallowing in it without trying to change.

I'm a pretty average guy. I used to be very frustrated. But the way I was raised, I was never a chump. I knew it was my responsiblity to make my life better but I did nothing about it. That's worse than a chump in my opinion.

Now I have a plan and I'm working it. I feel better than ever about myself. I still have work to do on all aspects of my life and I'm sure I will until the day I die. No one is perfect, all we can do is our best.

 

[Truman181]

Thanks to all for the insight.

Victory Unlimited, I greatly appreciate the words of encouragement.

And Rollo, those links are just what I'm looking for!

 

[KontrollerX]

are AFC followers?

if no one is a follower...whom do the leaders lead?

I think following only applies towards making someone an AFC if say for instance the person thinks they need to be in a relationship so the woman can guide them on how they should be living their life.

An AFC I think in short is someone that simply cannot be a leader of their own life and direction of it due to a lack of confidence that their ideas for their own life are good and should be followed by them.

Giving the reigns of your life's path completely over to a woman or an organization like the military or whatever because you don't know what to do with it is in my mind an AFC act of being a follower because the man lacks once again the confidence to direct his own life's path.

And before anyone misinterprates and thinks I have just said joining the military is an AFC act I did not say that.

All I am saying is if you join an organization like it or get involved with a woman due to wanting someone else to be in control of your life and give you some direction you are an AFC and a follower as far as your own life is concerned.

Now if you on the other hand direct your life to go join the military because its something you've always wanted to do or get involved with a certain woman because you think you and she will mesh well and have the same or similar goals that will benefit eachother greatly now that is taking control of your life where you are behind the steering wheel directing your own path.

Thats being a man right there and not being an AFC.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

I remember once while in high school, a friend and I were sitting in algebra class, near the end (waiting for the bell to ring so we could leave) discussing how people were merely sheep and could automatically and voluntarily allow their thoughts and actions to be easily manipulated by simple things like school bells.

We decided to be rebels, and stand up a minute early and leave.

Much to our surprise, half the class followed our actions, stood and left early as well. The teacher, not sure what was going on, passively allowed the class to leave early.

Transitioning from AFC follower to bold ALPHA leader is that simple. If you, as Kontroller X wisely suggested above, make the decision to LEAD YOUR OWN LIFE, how surprised will you be to find that many will naturally follow, as you MAKE YOUR OWN SOCIAL PROOF?.

 

[darkstarrr]

I remember once while in high school, a friend and I were sitting in algebra class, near the end (waiting for the bell to ring so we could leave) discussing how people were merely sheep and could automatically and voluntarily allow their thoughts and actions to be easily manipulated by simple things like school bells.

We decided to be rebels, and stand up a minute early and leave.

Much to our surprise, half the class followed our actions, stood and left early as well. The teacher, not sure what was going on, passively allowed the class to leave early.

Transitioning from AFC follower to bold ALPHA leader is that simple. If you, as Kontroller X wisely suggested above, make the decision to LEAD YOUR OWN LIFE, how surprised will you be to find that many will naturally follow, as you MAKE YOUR OWN SOCIAL PROOF?.

this $hit is brilliant! i am wondering in what ways we can implement this in our daily lives and in our relatio nships. any ideas?

 

[Da Realist]

I think AFC needs to be shortened to just "chump". Let's be real, most people are going to be average. Now there may be a situation in which you show your unique qualities, but there is going to be someone almost like you somewhere. Frustrated should be taken out because it's that part of you that's fighting to change your life. In order to grow, you have to feel like the situation you're in needs to be changed and you're going to get a little frustrated. The turning point is how you deal with it. You can use it turn things around for yourself like getting into shape or looking at life differently. Another way is that you let it fester and let it make you bitter; that's how you get haters and guys that hang off your woman because they can't get enough courage to seek one of their own but want to basically leech of of what you do. Then there are the guys who get complacent and don't feel they have to go any further. The last two groups are the chumps, but the third is the worst becuase they refuse to move in either direction. If the hater can get his life moving in the right direction, he can be a real man; but a chump can't be helped because he won't do anything for himself.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

I think there's a definite mischaracterization with what makes for an AFC on this board. I don't think it has anything to do with an inability to lead, or a guy being a wimp or otherwise. That's the easy assumption, but I know as many, if not more guys, that by any standard you'd call them well in control of their lives, careers and personal decisions who become abject AFCs in regards to their perspective on women or an entirely misguided mindset that's been set in them for a lifetime.

I have a former Marine who works for me in logistics now, who was an Iraqi combat veteran of 2 years, who is easily the most disciplined, reliable and purposed individual I've known. You would in no way call the guy a wimp, or a follower or Beta, etc., however they guy is at the beck and call of his fiance. In any other arena the guy is what you'd call Alpha, the guy has his sh!t together, but he spouts off about how unknowable women are and how fortunate he is his GF "allows" him to watch sports, etc. He's constantly on the phone with her at lunch, being scolded or involved in some other drama. The guy is simply an AFC in his thinking. In any other respect he'd earn your respect, but he is owned when it comes to his outlook on women. He simply can't grasp the PRIZE mentality with regard to women. And I'd wager his soon-to-be-wife uses this to her advantage in her own insecurity.

I know plenty of otherwise highly successful men who are completely ego-invested in an AFC mindset. I know plenty of very good looking guys who regularly get laid that are total AFCs - and particularly when they move to an LTR. It's not an ability to get laid, or your career path, etc. It's what your perspective is on your dealings with women. I'm sure there'll be people telling me that's part of the whole, and the masterful captain of his own ship is never going to allow his course to be set by someone else, but hear me out. While that may be a good role model to aspire to, a man's accomplishments are rarely indicative of his outlook on everything. An AFC is a nerd, a jock, a PUA, a business man, a sandwich artist, a rich celebrity and regular joe.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

I have a former Marine who works for me in logistics now, who was an Iraqi combat veteran of 2 years, who is easily the most disciplined, reliable and purposed individual I've known. You would in no way call the guy a wimp, or a follower or Beta

Well, if this guy was in the military, AND he wasn't chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, then he WAS a follower, unless he got a dishonorable discharge for being insubordinate.

But I get your point. Skills (or useful natural tendencies) in one area of life are rarely transferred easily to other areas.

AVERAGE is a extremely ambigous term. Average according to what criteria? What measurements? What sample size? What sample description?

FRUSTRATED is another extremely ambigous term.

CHUMP, who knows.

The simple grammar construction (two ambigous adjectives preceding an ambigous noun) have so many permutations it's near impossible to agree on meaning.

Also add in the fact that the term was coined as an "away from" strategy to market a seduction product.

Personally I think trying to come up an agreed definition is fruitless, although it makes for interesting, albeit rather pointless, internet discussions.

A more important definition might be to consider what is it exactly that you want out of life (if you an elucidate only this much you're way ahead of the pack), and are you getting it, and if not, do you have any strategies in place to achieve it.

 

[The Bat]

I have a former Marine who works for me in logistics now, who was an Iraqi combat veteran of 2 years, who is easily the most disciplined, reliable and purposed individual I've known. You would in no way call the guy a wimp, or a follower or Beta, etc., however they guy is at the beck and call of his fiance. In any other arena the guy is what you'd call Alpha, the guy has his sh!t together, but he spouts off about how unknowable women are and how fortunate he is his GF "allows" him to watch sports, etc. He's constantly on the phone with her at lunch, being scolded or involved in some other drama. The guy is simply an AFC in his thinking. In any other respect he'd earn your respect, but he is owned when it comes to his outlook on women. He simply can't grasp the PRIZE mentality with regard to women. And I'd wager his soon-to-be-wife uses this to her advantage in her own insecurity.

Exactly!

Coincidentally, I also have a marine friend who is purposeful, driven, and disciplined. Yet he got married at a young age to the first girl that opened her legs to him. To make things interesting, he also lives in Florida. You sure we don't know the same guy? :crackup:

He would never admit it but he is clearly driven by his wife. He changed career goals, locations (he MOVED to Florida from where I live), lifestyle, and hobbies to accommodate her. All for the noble purpose that is the husband role in a passionate marriage. On the surface, he looks happy and satisfied.

Yet I always question if his happiness is genuine or he simply adapted to his circumstances. People tell me that I'm a busy nobody who should be minding his own business. But the truth is, I grew up with this guy and he HAD dreams, passions, and goals in life. I just watched all of them fade away like a flame from a slow burning candle.

Ironic thing is, I was so enamored by this guy that I thought for the longest time that I, too, need to find the right girl to marry and dedicate my life to a love filled marriage. Originally, I came here looking how to get into an LTR since my game was never good enough to get me past that stage from "non-exclusive fvcking" to "exclusivity". I mentioned this in my most recent thread that how thankful I am to have found the pandora's box that is SS.

But my point is, I agree that AFC is a hard term to define. Yet it's easy to define from an attraction point of view.

 

[STR8UP]

AFC= A man who respects women more than he respects himself.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Would you call this guy an AFC?

http://www.newsday.com/services/newspaper/printedition/monday/news/ny-spbarr245940151nov24,0,4366638.story

I know from personal friends the kid killed himself over a GF. AFC is an abstract term for a mindset. Don't try to break it down as some convenient acronym, or think that each word is something to be contemplated over. AFC is for lack of a better term.

 

[Scaramouche]

Dear Rollo,
That spoilt my day.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

. AFC is an abstract term for a mindset. Don't try to break it down as some convenient acronym, or think that each word is something to be contemplated over. AFC is for lack of a better term.

AFC started as an acroynm describing a certain type of male. When did it become description of a mindset? Who made the decision? What type of mindset? Did the mindset conventiently spring up as the term did? If Not, what did people call the mindset before the term was coined? Or do certain traits exist in people only after the label is created for the trait?

Some people prefer using undefinably vague terms, because it makes thier opinions easier to defend, or rather more difficult to argue against them because they are so slippery.

One benefit for using a vague term (to describe an unfavorable mindset), is that it's easy to point out those that don't measure up, thus increasing one's ego in relation to others.

Personally when I choose an "away from" strategy, I like to define exactly what it is that I'm moving away from. I kind of like to be able to measure my progress. Of course that presumes I actually have some type of goal that I think is important enough make improvements towards.

For the term "AFC" for example, I like to be better than average (in whatever particular goal I'm shooting for), and not frustrated (happy with what I"ve achieved so far). I'm still not sure about the Chump part, though.

 

[Knight's Cross]

AS,
Smack on target. The last couple of chicks I dated all had the same issue. Because I spend alot of time at work/ social events/ away flying trips for some high $ clients I get the same response. Most women cannot trust that type of man.

What I see is even if I call, get together with them when I can, and treat them with respect it eventually falls apart. They say they want the GI Joe with the Kung Fu Grip, but when they see what it comes with they run straight back to Mr. Boring/ push over type guy.
The day I meet a woman that can handle my life, and me not CHANGING to fit her like a damn accessory will be a surprise. Until then I'm going the Clooney route.

KC

 

[jophil28]

If you ask me, that's the #1 issue with a lot of women: They want the guy every other woman wants, but they lack the trust to make it work.

Ha ha - you too? The curse of being a "ladies man" ,eh?

Yep, a woman 'wants' the guy who is liked by other women BUT, when she starts dating him she expects him to sever any connection wth those same other women.
How does that work ?
The fact is that it is riiculous expectation on her part. She liked you for you popularity at the outset BUT then expects you to be no longer popular.

Who was is that said here recently , "women are simpletons"..

 

[Tazman]

Hmm, it's odd that they would be dumping you guys so regularly just "believing" that you've cheated without any information to confirm it. I know there are women out there who are really insecure, but it seems like there would be something else in play to make them go all out and dump you as often as implied.

I know a guy who is constantly asked "are you cheating on me?" by his wife (or soon to be wife) and he always gives her the same obvious answer, but I think it's a manipulative tactic. He'll complain afterward about how upset she gets and how he'll have to be "nice" and all this BS. Why would she agree to marry him if she doesn't trust him? I think it's a way for her to maintain leverage and compliance on his part, while making him believe she's jealous or insecure about his commitment because he's such a prize. It's pretty clever actually.