What would be your advice for the husband here?

[Yewki]

It is real for millions of men out there.Family courts around the country will destroy him.Only men who gave a cuckold fetish should get married in this day and age.

He doesn't have kids so he's lucky in that regard, but the fact he's married and living with her is extremely pathetic. He claims he's reasonably good looking. She's 300 lbs. That right there is a total deal breaker. Not to mention she's also a useless irresponsible entitled slob who does nothing and doesn't care for him.

I would only hope in a case like this divorce court would use common sense and award the woman little to nothing. Seeing as she's a lazy slob who apparenty does nothing... she doesn't take care of kids, because there are no kids. Doesn't cook, clean, or take of the house. She does nothing. Literally.

 

[mikey2012]

If I were you I would stay WELL AWAY. This is what is going to happen ..

You will taste that young wet Asian Poon Tang and you will get emotionally involved.

She will make you feel special and young again and she will want to fuk you 6x a day.

You won't be able to keep up even if you wanted to, which makes you even more thirsty for her.

She will be up for anything, BJ in parks, 3somes etc. You will feel horny for her all the time.

You will fall in love with her and want to get married and start again.

She will string you along and ultimately she will dump you in which you will spend the next few years trying to get over her.

SO DONT DO IT...

 

[Tenacity]

I'm going to go through the rest of your questions but lets start on this because the 50% is thrown around as fact. I'm not interested in all the other attachments at this point or we will be debating $hit forever (% of happy in marriage).

But these debates/discussions are important, so if it takes us forever to debate/discuss them then so be it? We have to understand (at least here in the US) the decision to get married and/or make children with an American Woman is an EXTREMELY SIGNIFICANT/IMPORTANT DECISION.

You came off Hithard, as though these decisions are basic and menial, which is why you continued to focus on how "negative" and cynical I sounded while discussing them, rather than continuing to discuss the merits of the discussion. You keep repeating about how I'm too negative and trying to scare the living hell out of guys on this Forum, when that's not the point you need to be focused on. What we should be focused on are the following:

- Should a guy get married and/or make kids today based on the current state of the institution of marriage, the market of women, the loyalty of women, the child support laws, the divorce laws, the alimony laws, the inefficient pre-nup laws, as well as the generic probability of marrying "one woman" in 2015 and having her morph into something totally different by 2025 when you are 10 years into the marriage?

This discussion is VERY important Hit Hard, we aren't talking about menial/basic topics like should a guy approach a chick and how? That's basic/kindergarten discussion.

This discussion is about the realities of the Family Court Legal System and IF a guy should participate in this system or NOT by getting married or making children. That's what this discussion needs to be about in full details.

So if we discuss and debate this "forever", so be it. I would love for this thread to get 25 pages long with quality, relevant, content in relation to this topic so guys can have all of the information they need to make quality decisions.

So...
20-25% for both men and women initiating divorce.
So that is roughly 14-17.5% of female initiated divorce.
Now guys come here to learn how to run better relationships.
How to improve their confidence.
Better themselves blah, blah, blah you get the point. Pretty sure if they fit the criteria the odds are better again. You will never get 0% risk.

Again, you are tying apples in with oranges. You can't tie basic/menial shyt like "how to improve your confidence with women" (apple) to dealing with an inefficient/out of control Family Court legal system (orange).

The former is based on making the decision to improve your personality, looks, money, etc. which makes you more ATTRACTIVE to the opposite sex.

The latter is the configuration of a legal strategy to navigate the system and protect yourself in case your investment in a marriage or making children with an American woman goes South.

Hit Hard this conversation is not about how to be more attractive, this conversation is about business, law and regulations.

Ten I completely apologize for being a D,ICK this is a location thing that I should have looked into further on thats on me. I did not get why guys were so up in arms about it but now I understand. And I apologize unreservedly to those on the anti marriage front. Cohabitation has completely changed my perspective of the argument.

I honestly don't care if you are a dyck lol, I'm a DYCK at times lol. What I was looking for in relation to this discussion, was for you to "be a dyck" and SMACK ME DOWN with data, facts and logic that shows I'm totally off base in relation to my analysis.

I was looking for you to come HARD with the facts man.

- I was looking for you to show me a host of benefits a guy misses by not getting married.
- I was looking for you to show me a difference in woman quality of being married v.s. not being married.
- I was looking for you to show me a higher standard of living/quality of life of being married v.s. not being married.
- I was looking for you to show me how I was going to make more money or save more money by being married.
- Etc.

For example, there's people that only keep money in savings accounts and don't invest it in anything (put the money to work). If you got up and said they were STUPID (being a dyck to them) for doing that, then followed up with information on inflation, taxes, rates of return on stocks, index funds, bonds, owning a business, investing in real estate, the power of compound interest, etc., showing them how inflation/taxes are destroying their buying power while they are losing out on opportunities to put that money to work....even though you were being a DYCK to them, you would have still been on point! And I respect that!

But you didn't do that in this regard Hit Hard, and for that reason alone, I'm disappointed sir.

Guys that do want marriage for whatever reasons - yes you can lower your odds of divorce. You can have a happy married life. But while you have this marvelous law available to you, I can't personally argue a reason for marriage. For Aussies, we are screwed either way so just get married.

I'm not that familiar with the laws over there, but you mentioned that if you stay with a chick for 2 years they consider you married? That's similar to common law marriages that we have over here in the States, more information on that is here: http://www.unmarried.org/common-law-marriage-fact-sheet/

You would have to be living together and put it out to the world like you are "married", still don't know what that means in full detail as the IN thing to do over here is call your girlfriend "wifey".

It's why I said I'm not getting married, making children NOR doing cohabitation with a chick.

 

[hithard]

But these debates/discussions are important, so if it takes us forever to debate/discuss them then so be it? We have to understand (at least here in the US) the decision to get married and/or make children with.

Yep happy to discuss it more. But on family courts and some other topics (US) I would have to read up more. I'm always pretty time limited so I will dribble it in a bit at a time.
Now on marriage stats: I don't believe the 50% is anywhere near a real reflection. Its a lump it all in together no matter whos fault or where you are at. BUT the guys that found this site and millions of others would have just fallen in love and based a good deal on emotion and looks with little else (in general). I would say without hitting the demographic of what goes into a successful marriage, their chance of divorce wasn't 50%. But more in the range of 50- 90%.

Again, you are tying apples in with oranges. You can't tie basic/menial shyt like "how to improve your confidence with women" (apple) to dealing with an inefficient/out of control Family Court legal system (orange). 

The former is based on making the decision to improve your personality, looks, money, etc. which makes you more ATTRACTIVE to the opposite sex. 

And all of these things increase the success rate, but that wasn't my point. Learning from those with successful marriages was, understanding women was, having a handle on your own internal game was. Learning how to navigate is what we do here
What I need to know is do you dispute the 14-17.5% figures I had thrown up if men are hitting the right criteria?
We need to knock over this point before we continue.

 

[Tenacity]

Hithard,

See below:

Now on marriage stats: I don't believe the 50% is anywhere near a real reflection. Its a lump it all in together no matter whos fault or where you are at. BUT the guys that found this site and millions of others would have just fallen in love and based a good deal on emotion and looks with little else (in general). I would say without hitting the demographic of what goes into a successful marriage, their chance of divorce wasn't 50%. But more in the range of 50- 90%.

And all of these things increase the success rate, but that wasn't my point. Learning from those with successful marriages was, understanding women was, having a handle on your own internal game was. Learning how to navigate is what we do here
What I need to know is do you dispute the 14-17.5% figures I had thrown up if men are hitting the right criteria?
We need to knock over this point before we continue.

Got it.

Based on information provided by the BLS here in the States, reports show that if you wait to get married once you (and your spouse) are both educated, financially established and older (over 25 or nearing 30), then your chances for divorce go down significantly to a 20% - 25% divorce rating.

Seeing as though 70% of women begin divorce proceedings, you are looking at 14% - 17.5% of THESE marriages having the divorces started by a woman. So we are in 100% one accord in relation to these findings as I trust the reporting of the BLS.

But we still have to define "marriage success rate". To me a successful marriage is one where you are married, don't get divorced, and it's a "happily ever after" marriage that's fulfilling, productive, "completes you," etc. Not saying you won't have ups and downs, but overall, the marriage "completes you" and does more for your life than without it being there. After all, isn't that why we get married in the first place?

Hit Hard, correct me if I'm wrong, but your viewpoint based on the BLS Report findings is the following in relation to what a guy needs to do if he wants to get married:

1.) Increase his Attraction as high as possible and maintain it. That's increase his internal game, money status, looks, personality, education, as well as continue to learn from other guys who are still married who appear to be holding it down pretty well.

2.) Then, go out and filter the field to find a chick to marry from a stable family environment, whose educated, with her finances together, no prior children from another guy, who looks decent, has a great attitude, will sign a pre-nup, no red flags shown in the time you have been dating her, and (insert other criterion here). This criteria incorporates the requirements from the BLS Report as well as adds in additional criteria from guys within The Manosphere.

And by doing this all work upfront (while continuing to maintain the frame in the marriage), bam, his chances of having a divorce significantly diminish.

That's your theory, correct?

If that's your theory, so far in this discussion isn't it fair to say you are only correct in relation to the "filing of a divorce proceeding" based on the data, stats and reporting?

But just because there was no divorce proceeding filed, does this automatically mean the marriage is successful? Can we define a successful marriage as JUST one that had no divorce proceeding? Or is that how you define a successful marriage, as just one that hasn't divorced?

What is the status of the actual marriage despite not having a divorce proceeding? Is it a happy and fulfilling marriage, or are the two just hanging onto each other because they feel as though they either have no where to go or it's "cheaper to keep her" at this point? How many times have they been separated but not divorced during this time?

For example, look at the guy in the Abby article, he's been married for 40 years and has not filed for a divorce, but he's not in a happy/fulfilling marriage. Had he not spoke out about his issues and we only used the measurement of "not filing for divorce" as a metric for "a successful marriage," wouldn't we be deceiving ourselves based on the actual status of this guy's marital situation?

 

[hithard]

But just because there was no divorce proceeding filed, does this automatically mean the marriage is successful? Can we define a successful marriage as JUST one that had no divorce proceeding? Or is that how you define a successful marriage, as just one that hasn't divorced?

What is the status of the actual marriage despite not having a divorce proceeding? Is it a happy and fulfilling marriage, or are the two just hanging onto each other because they feel as though they either have no where to go or it's "cheaper to keep her" at this point? How many times have they been separated but not divorced during this time?

For example, look at the guy in the Abby article, he's been married for 40 years and has not filed for a divorce, but he's not in a happy/fulfilling marriage. Had he not spoke out about his issues and we only used the measurement of "not filing for divorce" as a metric for "a successful marriage," wouldn't we be deceiving ourselves based on the actual status of this guy's marital situation?

You are absolutely correct on both my theory and of happiness in marriage. And how being successful in one, might not translate into being successful at both. And all the theory in the world won't prepare you for the ups and downs of a ltr.

A lot of those guys held in unhappy marriages are usually held in by fear and insecurity(missing out, no one else will love them, getting old etc). Fear and insecurity got them in and fear and insecurity holds them in place. And to add further, there is a lot of guys out there that start off as unhappy being single only to transition over to being unhappily married. Happiness is not a given if you are single either. They can coast all the way through life being miserable. And the system is set up so its easy enough to do.

It all starts with putting work before yourself, putting marriage , putting family, putting outside problems etc. You were already unhappy but you just masked it over with 40 years of living externally from yourself. Sure you might get the honeymoon period. But the underlying issue was always there. And it is an excruciating thing to wake up from and realize just how much you wasted your life on BS. You never knew how to be happy in the first place and you basically just drag someone else into your misery.
Its not all guys but there's a lot. Being in ruts, feeling like beige wallpaper in your own home, depression, doing the daily grind.

So instead of orbiting around issues in an attempt to void your own life. You need to be the center of your universe and come from a strong base.
That means:
Understanding what happiness is to you.
Knowing what your issues are.
How you handle stress.
Your personality type and the weaknesses that may come from that particular persona.
And the beliefs you have of yourself.

I'm not saying be self-absorbed. I'm saying your mental and emotional well being is very important for you and those around you.
Deal with your issues first. Learn how to be happy first and foremost (not all people can be) while single before you think of marriage.

There is probably pages to add to this issue, but others can articulate a lot better then I can. Also pressed for time. Shoot as many questions so I can narrow it down.

 

[Tenacity]

Hit Hard,

I totally understand. So you mentioned that in order to truly get to this state of a "happy marriage," we should enter it as already being "happy while single"?

Happiness can be defined as a "state" of well-being, coming from pleasant emotions causing a feeling of "contentment". To be content means you are "ok" with the way things are going right now and how you foresee them to go for a "period of time". In other words, you are WHOLE, you are in a state of "being complete".

Maybe you can shed some light on this concept of "happy while single", as I have heard this concept before but I have never understood it?

People will tell you that in order to have successful romantic relationships, you need to learn how to be successfully single first. But that doesn't make any sense, because isn't it correct that the purpose of a relationship is to fulfill a demand that is otherwise unfulfilled, if such relationship is absent?

- Can I be a happy (content and whole) Employee without an Employer?

- Can I be a happy (content and whole) Business Owner without a Client Base?

- Can I be a happy (content and whole) Investor without having Good Productive Investments?

As a heterosexual, sexually functioning, MAN, can I ever be truly content/whole in life without the presence of a Woman from a romantic standpoint? For me personally, I can't be. I can't run off to an island to get "whole", I can only be whole within a particular area based on having the external resource or relationship that completes the puzzle. For me, overall happiness (contentment) in LIFE is being WHOLE in all "health" areas:

- Financial Health (money is right)
- Physical Health (good health and physically fit)
- Mental Health (no mental disorders, strong internal spirit, good vision)
- Social Health (good friends in my life)
- Romantic Health (women in my life)
- Spirit Health (soulful connection to some higher source or purpose in life)

If I reach this level of WHOLENESS, then what would I be lacking in life that only A WIFE CAN FULFILL, which creates the DEMAND for me to enter a marriage contract?

From my perspective, a wife would have to fulfill something in my life that's currently missing (meaning I'm not whole/content) and in order for me to eventually become a "whole person" I'm going to HAVE TO engage a marriage contract with this woman.

 

[hithard]

Hit Hard,

I totally understand. So you mentioned that in order to truly get to this state of a "happy marriage," we should enter it as already being "happy while single"?

Happiness can be defined as a "state" of well-being, coming from pleasant emotions causing a feeling of "contentment". To be content means you are "ok" with the way things are going right now and how you foresee them to go for a "period of time". In other words, you are WHOLE, you are in a state of "being complete".

Maybe you can shed some light on this concept of "happy while single", as I have heard this concept before but I have never understood it?

People will tell you that in order to have successful romantic relationships, you need to learn how to be successfully single first. But that doesn't make any sense, because isn't it correct that the purpose of a relationship is to fulfill a demand that is otherwise unfulfilled, if such relationship is absent?

- Can I be a happy (content and whole) Employee without an Employer?

- Can I be a happy (content and whole) Business Owner without a Client Base?

- Can I be a happy (content and whole) Investor without having Good Productive Investments?

These are more external factors or situations that happen to you from an outside source that tests resolve. You can be happy within yourself but still be tested, or challenged by things going on.
I'll try and give an example to answer.

Quite a few years ago (over a decade now) I had a call from my mother. My father wasn't doing too well and the company he owned was going down the drain. I had to change states fly home and deal with the mess. It turned out a lot worse then I expected. My father had completely locked up with depression. I'm not going into the full story, but yes there was overwhelming stress. The odds were heavily stacked against me. Money was literally pouring out the door. Should I have been miserable, oh yeah.

But this was just one of those things that happen in life. It was a problem where you leave emotion out and apply problem solving, knowledge, goal setting. Its a bit like stock trading and trying to take the emotion out of the decisions. Yes easy to say. But between fear & greed, can be very hard to do without sticking to your trading plan. But the more you make it about a competent plan and less about the highs and lows of emotion the easier it becomes to profit.

This situation left me drained at times... even frustrated. But it didn't affect me at the core emotional level because I never let it in at that level. I'm having a hard time trying to get this point across so I'll give another example.

My first post to you on this thread was attacking from an emotional point of view. And while you did very well to hold off it did elicit a few emotion based responses back. Now while its just text on the screen, it can sting it can make you question yourself if there is enough venom. If we kept carrying on like that it has negative consequences not just for us, but for anyone else on the board that lets it in on that emotional level. And at the extreme... if you let it, it can change you at a deeper level
But now our discussion has moved to more logical reasoning and the tone is different and we are moving forward. Emotions are not engaged and its back to text on the screen. If I just came from an emotional level to attack nobody gets anywhere.

Similarly if I allow emotion or unhappiness into something that is purely a
analytical play then it feeds into my core state with negative consequences. It chips away at the inside and hollows you out. Does that mean you can't use an emotional response to a problem. No, sometimes you have to shake things up when you have tried other avenues. Flip it around till you find the crack. Then once you do revert back to strategy and push for forward progress. You must always have the long game in mind. And sometimes taking one step back to then move forward is required.

Anyway on with the story. At the time all this was going on, my son was only still young (under 4). This was where my emotions fired. In my love for him, the happiness, the laughs, teaching, playing. And also from the time spent with my father and being with him on the level that we were. This is the correct way to use that emotional side so you don't become robotic from to much logical thinking.
These are still all external sources of happiness. Same as loving someone, or the thrill of an activity, good times with friends. But these can all add to your contentment and fill your heart with positive memories and experiences.

No the happiness I was talking about was you yourself at the core.
Its accepting the things you have done.
Forgiving yourself.
Being comfortable in your skin.
Loving the person that you are.
Knowing your strength and faults.
I don't want this sounding like hippy bs, but its when you are really present in the moment and you have an overwhelming sense of content/ not fear or anger.

That doesn't mean you don't have bad days/weeks. You just don't let it poison the well.

Happiness in this sense is a biatch to explain.