What was it like?

[Darth]

What did dating used to be like?

"As technology has changed, so has dating. Cell phones, Blackberrys, email and text messaging have made it more convenient to chat. Therefore, face-to-face conversations are no longer the norm and even talking on the phone takes the backseat to text messaging and emails. Technology has stunted the growth of intimacy because we engage in less direct interaction with each other. Also, the thrill of meeting someone by chance occurs less and less..."





This is not to bash the current age. There's probably something good about every era. And obviously, women have characteristics that are constant through the years.

But I think we are all curious about what the situation used to be, from people who were there.

Guys from around 35 and up...could you tell us how you remember things when you were first starting out, and how they were different than now. How women used to be, how dating used to be.

Or fun stories from back then.

 

[Darth]

Going off the other thread:

"The attention whoring that so many women do nowadays was nearly nonexistant back then, you could talk to people a lot simpler and they wouldnt just get an impulse and leave mid sentence. There were more women out as well, nowadays there seem to be a lot more men. I just cant get my head wrapped around it to pinpoint all the **** that has changed.

What have struck me the most is the amount of fat girls or slightly overweight girls. There seem to be only one skinny girl for every ten girls. Lesser quality girls as well."

 

[FastMen]

this really brings me down,thats why i hate technology

 

[spinaroonie]

Dude, I'm nowhere near 35+ but I can comment on trends I've
noticed since I started clubbing circa 2003-2004, right before
the explosion of texting, Facebook and social networking.

Been clubbing for a while now, and over the years I’ve noticed some trends in the clubbing scene - none of which bode well for the average guy looking to pull for a one night stand.

Roid monkeys everywhere. 5 years ago you’d see normal guys dressed in conservative button-downs. Now, every club I walk into now feels like the Jersey Shore. Muscle-bound roided up wannabe MMA fighters with short faux hawks and tattoos draped in tight affliction shirts are all over the place at at every club.

More whales. Lots of big girls at clubs these days. With rising obesity rates, it’s not a surprise. But rather than being sweet and pleasant to compensate for their lack of desirable physique, these girls generally exhibit the worst behaviour. They’re also generally loud, aggressive, show fattitude, and are the biggest c*ckblocks – pun intended. Sadly, the widescale (pun intended) prevalence of big girls also artificially inflates the value of the skinny girls. And while fat girls are everywhere, it’s comparatively rare to see a fat guy at a club. Fat girls go to clubs. Fat guys stay home.

Girls on cell phones. The biggest change from 5-8 years ago. Girls constantly texting and messaging each other on their cell phones and blackberries. Open one girl, and the other will pull her blackberry like clockwork to not feel neglected. She’ll shoot a few texts telling her friends where she is, her friends come find her, and soon that 2-set you just opened erupts into a 4-set and then expands into a mixed 6-set. Keeping the attention of 2 ADD club girls in an overly stimulated environment is hard enough as it is – any more and it’s damn near Herculean. Which leads to…

More c*ckblocking. This has always been common, but it’s more dramatic and vicious than ever before. Open a girl and if her friend’s not getting attention, she’ll pull away your girl almost immediately… even if her friend likes you and has a genuine rapport. In the ADD-addled culture of entitlement of today’s woman - she wants attention too, and her needs come first. Which leads to…

Girls night out The most annoying tendency of girls these days – all the girls on “girls nights” there to “just dance with the girls”. These are the gaggles of hens you see in every club dancing exclusively on their own in a circle. Every guy who approaches them is a creep/creepy/creeper and will get shot down. If she dares venture towards dancing with a guy, she will get pulled back into the circle by an overprotective friend trying to “save her”. Running dance floor game is tough because of this and due to…

Loud ****ing music. Clubs have always been loud, but every club today has the volume cranked up at a supersonic scale. This makes any sort of verbal game damn near impossible.

Lack of dancing between men and women. A few years ago it was common to see men dancing with women bumping and grinding. Today it’s rare. What’s most common are women on a “girls night out” dancing in circles amongst themselves with guys leering from the sidelines. There’s hardly any grinding. Part of the reason is the song selection – today fast dance pop is in and it’s not conducive to grinding. 5 years ago snap rap/crunk was all the rage – perfect grinding music and perfect for getting physical escalation going.

Sausagefests. Ratios are more lopsided than I can ever remember.

With all these factors compounded, the general trend today in clubs is away from the one night stand. With girls not respecting guys at all, the prevalence of the shaming terms like “creeper” discouraging guys from approaching, cell phones and texting and the abandonment all social etiquette, and the preponderance of overempowered women on “girls nights”, you wonder if any guy pulls one night stands at clubs today. Is any guy is going home with a girl he met that night at the club these days? All I’m seeing after last call are fights break out between sexually frustrated roid rage douchebags going home alone yet again and not getting any.

Even Assanova, a true player, has commented on the recent death of night game:

A couple of days ago, I said that night game was dead. Of course it isn't, but it is in the worst condition that I've seen it in ever since I first started going to them. What I've noticed, at least in my city, is that the days of just showing up and leaving with a random girl are gone. Before the economy went to ****, and text messaging became cheap, all I had to do was just show up to a bar and I'd easily leave with a girl.

Now things are a little different. When I say that text messaging is a problem, I don't mean that women are just jumping on their cell phones when a guy approaches them. What I am saying is that cheap text messaging has allowed people to only stick with their group of friends.

http://www.realassanova.com/2010/10/is-night-game-really-dead.html

All of this leads me to believe that girls today go clubbing to seek attention for attention’s sake and not to meet men. Guys, don't waste your time and money at clubs. Game elsewhere.

http://sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=178864

But I'm interested in hearing from the older guys as well.

 

[Darth]

5 years ago you’d see normal guys dressed in conservative button-downs.

Just 5 years ago? Wow.

Stories from pre-1990 would be awesome....If it was that different in 2005, imagine what it was like in the 80's or the 70's.

 

[Warrior74]

The Telephone was a big deal.

Getting a phone number used to be a big deal. Which is why when you read old PUA material you see stuff about "Getting the number". You were calling someone's home. Their parents or relatives or roommates could answer the phone. They could be judged by who calls them. They could worry about a guy calling all the time. I do remember my Dad telling me once to always have good phone etiquette when calling girls. You didn't talk too dirty on the phone because her mom could pick up and listen. You presented yourself as a nice young man and then did what ever you wanted to her later when you got her alone. At least that's how it was when I was young, high school & early college.

 

[scorpio1138]

yup, getting the phone number meant something.

You had to call them on the phone.

 

[spinaroonie]

yup, getting the phone number meant something.

You had to call them on the phone.

This.

Anyone whose followed the show Keys to the VIP over the years will note how the game has changed. It's a Canadian pickup show in which two guys square off. The objective was always to get a girl's number within a certain time constraint - it was a test of the player's game.

In the 1st season (circa 2005, before Facebook and before cheap texting was widespread) this was still a challenge. Girls were reluctant to give out their numbers unless the guy had very tight game and she was truly interested.

By the 3rd season (around 2008) it was clear that girls were simply giving out numbers to guys with very minimal game, and it was obvious that 90% of these numbers would flake. Getting a number was no longer a big deal. Girls would rather take the passive approach of screening the guy's calls rather than deal with the awkwardness of saying "No."

It's likely why an otherwise fantastic show stopped airing at this point - getting the number was no longer a big deal and the challenge it once was.

 

[scorpio1138]

yeah, easy enough to tease with a number and just deny later.

 

[Scars]

I'd say it's done more harm than good. (As far as gaming/relationships go.) It's completely eliminating social contact. That's why half this generation is socially retarded. Or they act a fool because they mimic what social interaction SHOULD be (aka, what they witness of Jersey Shore.) Or even worse, start developing characters for themselves, because they get to hide behind a screen or words and be whoever they want.

Woman take complete advantage of it. Aside from the screening, it also allows them to get the validation they constantly seek without stepping foot outside their house. They can just log into facebook and easily have 10+ men hitting on them.

What's even worse is some of these woman aren't even cute at all. I'm talking HB5's and HB6's being treated like their 9s. That's why woman have this entitlement complex, because men are so god damn desperate for a lay (often a sh!tty one at that). Another contribution to why society is falling apart.

 

[Falcon25]

There were more relationships. Girls didn't sleep around as much. They were a little more committed to their boyfriends. You met going out, or at school. It was great times. Very easy to meet women and date them. A date MEANT something to a girl. She actually wanted a date, was looking forward to it, etc. Now, it's just "hanging out". What I noticed more is how much girls have in choices now. It's crazy. They can literally get hundreds of guys if they wanted to. Back in the day, girls were more into relationships. I'm talking about mid 90's to late 90's. I wish things were like back then. Girls and guys were more genuine. Now, everyone is fake it seems. I don't know, I could go on and on.

 

[Falcon25]

I was thinking about his more and more. It was different times. It was simpler. Like warrior said, a phone number was huge, calling her was huge, because some girls didn't have cell phones, you had to call her parents house. I miss those days, not because I want to relieve them again, but because it was so simple to be human. Now, facebook, texting, etc. rules the day. You are judged by your picture, how many friends you have, etc. Back then, judgements were made face to face. That's it.

 

[wait_out]

The early 90's had a very strong anti-establishment, anti-consumerist theme which by some quirk, managed to dominate the pop culture for a short while. I read something once that the fashion industry took a huge hit due to everyone buying vintage rather than new. Pretty cool really.

FB and that is not a "way to keep in touch with people" as a lot of people say... it's self-promotion. Promotion is work, and exhausting. Which is why some people may be a little nostalgic for back when things were simpler. There was also a strong anti-fame, anti-fake message that simply isn't found out there today.

Do kids still talk about "selling out"? Very different times...

 

[PapiChulo]

The early 90's had a very strong anti-establishment, anti-consumerist theme which by some quirk, managed to dominate the pop culture for a short while. I read something once that the fashion industry took a huge hit due to everyone buying vintage rather than new. Pretty cool really.

FB and that is not a "way to keep in touch with people" as a lot of people say... it's self-promotion. Promotion is work, and exhausting. Which is why some people may be a little nostalgic for back when things were simpler. There was also a strong anti-fame, anti-fake message that simply isn't found out there today.

Do kids still talk about "selling out"? Very different times...

That exactly how I feel about that as well. That explains my nostalgia about the 90's - I am a 90s kid after all. The tide has turned - it is great to "sell out" now, thus market yourself.

 

[Rubirosa]

Well, I'm old school......I went clubbing in the 1980's....This was THE way to meet women. I remember getting alot of cougars, but of course they weren't known as "cougars" back then.....just recently divorced women w/ the 2.5 kids at home w/ the babysitter. They would be looking good because the stress of their divorce made them lose weight (ha ha).
Yeah, you would usually get a phone # on a ****tail napkin. Sometimes it would be hard to read because it was written in lipstick, or sometimes you would just find a piece of paper in your wallet and hit up the ****tail waitress for a pen to write with. I will say this...terrible as it sounds...it was easier to mess around back then.....You could disappear for hours and then finally call back and say you couldn't find a pay phone that worked....no nosy people w/ cell phone cameras ready to bust you w/ an instant e-mail photo

 

[Bryce556]

I'm here and started clubbing in this era and I'm wishing I was around for the times you guys are talking about, it sounds more fun, now when I go out its not so much fun as It is work, its draining I'm up agaist roid monkey guys and speech dosent even play a part in clubs, my image dose, I feel as if I'm on camara the entire time I'm out chick taking photos on their phone of me and them then posting em on facebook to be judged by everyone, its why I acually dissables mostly all my features on facebook so ppl can't tag me in stuff.

 

[omkara]

The early 90's had a very strong anti-establishment, anti-consumerist theme which by some quirk, managed to dominate the pop culture for a short while. I read something once that the fashion industry took a huge hit due to everyone buying vintage rather than new. Pretty cool really.

FB and that is not a "way to keep in touch with people" as a lot of people say... it's self-promotion. Promotion is work, and exhausting. Which is why some people may be a little nostalgic for back when things were simpler. There was also a strong anti-fame, anti-fake message that simply isn't found out there today.

Do kids still talk about "selling out"? Very different times...

Yeah, having come of age in the early 90s and now going back to finish my degree with 21 year olds, I completely agree with everything you said. Even worse, I have held on to those ideals for way too long--a lot longer than most of my friends have. And I always will. But it has cost me a lot. I feel like f***in rip van winkle. I have strived to maintain intellectual purity and authenticity, and nobody gives a damn about these things anymore. It's just straight materialism.

But whatever. I'm not here to complain. Yeah, it hasn't worked out well for me. But there is a possibility I could use it to my advantage. You can use that authenticity to your advantage. I'm thinking that's the style of game I should work to perfect. It's hard for me to out-******* the *******s. lol

By the way, great observation about people using Fakebook in the name of "keeping in touch."

 

[Darth]

It was great times. Very easy to meet women and date them. A date MEANT something to a girl. She actually wanted a date, was looking forward to it, etc. Now, it's just "hanging out".

Huh...was the date still seen as an "event" at this time? Did you ask, "Would you like to go out with me this weekend?" When did it become "hang out"?

And what was "going out"? Did that phrase have the same meaning?

 

[Darth]

I wanted to copy this from the mature men forum. There is some excellent stuff here....


squirrels:

"Dating" is almost as platonic as the "friend zone" these days. It's been analyzed, programmed, and done to death. There is no room for innovation, no room for personality. People can go on a "date" or two "dates" and know just as much about the person they're "dating" as they did when before they met them.

Back in our parents' time, a "date" was just a situation for two people to get to know each other. Sometimes dinner, sometimes a movie...the whole plan was just to find an excuse to be together with someone and get to know them.

Now it's down to a hard science. It's like a damned chess-game.


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Atom Smasher:

Far greater success then than now, and I don't look a day over 38.

70's - You could get laid at the drop of a hat. Women were discreet, and flaking was completely non-existent. Women considered themselves fortunate to be with a man. I had no game, was a total AFC, and I got laid all I wanted.

80's - First 2/3 of decade, same thing. Extremely easy to get laid, but the AW syndrome was just starting to go mainstream. Girls still appreciative of having a man and no flaking whatsoever. Still an AFC, still always had a woman.

Last third of decade, media had affected women to the point of where the "entitlement" syndrome started showing up.

90's - Not much I can add here 'cause after '92 I had a moratorium on dating.

2000's - "Entitlement", "AWing", flaking, all the stuff we are facing today is now in full swing and growing exponentially throughout the decade. I don't need to tell you, you're living it.

A couple years ago (or less) if one of us older guys mentioned that it was easier back then, there would be a huge outcry from a bunch of 20 year old sages that throughout history women have always been the way they are and that we are facing nothing new. That couldn't be further from the truth. When you live it, you know. I'm glad to see that the younger guys are starting to see that the situation was much better until very recently (40 years in the history of mankind is numerically insignificant). The fact that forums like this even exist is testament to the insanely bad state of affairs between men and women.

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Rollo Tomassi:

In 1993 a number close was actually significant because it meant she was giving you a personal landline number you could call, not a nebulous cell phone number with caller ID. I think guy's these days still think a number close means something, it doesn't. In 1995 a kiss close was somewhat significant, but not a guaranteed lay or implicative of anything beyond a flirtation. Now it's almost necessary for a girl to make out with a guy in order for him to get the message.

There are a lot of 80's and 90's era dating holdovers that young men still think are applicable today. Which is kind of silly when you think about it. I would've laughed my ass off if a 40 y.o. guy told me that dating rituals in the 70's were still applicable in the 90's back then. I met Mrs. Tomassi at a gig I was playing in 1995. No cell phones, no IM, no internet. Compared to 2010 that was the wild west as far as dating was concerned. There was no SS, and if you owned a book titled "How to Pick Up Girls" you were obviously a loser who'd mail ordered it from an ad in Hustler. Basically you were on your own to figure things out.

In the 90's feminization had reach it's apex. I know that comes off as a bold statement, and probably a lot of guys would disagree with me because of the dating environment they find themselves in now. However, I say that because it was the wild west and feminization was unchecked and normalized. Go back and watch any of the sitcoms or movies from that era and pay attention to the mannerisms of men and women. Seinfeld, Friends and Fraser are good ones to observe. All the time you do, remember there is no internet, there is no global consortium of men comparing experiences about women's observed behaviors and their motivations, and there is no way to unplug from the Matrix beyond one's own character and insight. Compared to the mid 90's, the mid 2000's was the age of enlightenment for Men.

Women flaked and Attention Whøres were present, but not in such identifiable ways as now. With the rise of the internet and social media I'm of the opinion that ALL women are AW's to varying degrees, and they've always been so. However now the technology is such that they can more actively indulge in their attention obsession from both sexes, so it appears as if women have become more self-important. I'd argue they were always this way, but lacked the outlet to entertain it. It's ironic that the girls in the 80's and 90's who were so repulsed by the nerdy computer geeks are the same 40 somethings sitting in front of their computers fo hours at work soaking in the attention of their "Friends" on FaceBook today.

 

[zekko]

Huh...was the date still seen as an "event" at this time? Did you ask, "Would you like to go out with me this weekend?" When did it become "hang out"?

And what was "going out"? Did that phrase have the same meaning?

Back in the 80s I used to talk to girls about what all these terms meant:
Dating, going out, going out with, seeing each other.
What I found out was that each girl seemed to have her own definition of each term. One thought "seeing each other" was more serious than "going out" while the next would think the exact opposite. One would think a "date" meant more than "going out with" while the next would think the exact opposite. So really, all those terms were basically meaningless. It just goes to show, don't get hung up on semantics.