*** What to expect out of marriage?"

[Oxide]

I am taking a very good suggestion from Rollo Tomassi ( thanks! ) and creating a thread that EVERY SINGLE guy should eventually look at.

With everyone trying to be a DJ or a PUA and gaming many girls (or couple quality ones) we are not thinking about marriage much. All we know is that it is "somewhere out there..with the best woman i find somewhere down the road..filled with sex and *******s"... well, i want to hear from guys who have been through this... what should we expect? what should we be watching out for (sex..her friends?) and what are key things to make sure your marriage works?



Ok, to start things off a bit.. i heard this metaphor used when describing marital sex:

When you get married, get a huge glass jar. Now, for the first year, every single time you have sex, drop a marble in that jar. Every single time you have sex after that first year, take a marble out. You will never empty that jar....

Opinions?

 

[earthshyne]

Men marry wimmen hoping that the wimmen will never change. But they do.

Wimmen marry men in hopes that they will change. But they don't.

You're absolutely right, though, in your question: it's all about expectations. I don't know about the jar of marbles analogy, but I suppose it's possible.

If you go into this thinking you'll be bonking yourself silly every night for the next 50 or whatever years, well, it ain't happening. If you think she's going to allow you to go out with your buddies whenever you want, if you think her mood swings will diminish, if you think that you'll never have to worry about her fooling around, if you think that "happily ever after" is reality...

... then, unfortunately, you're so very wrong.

Sounds like I'm bitter, doesn't it? Well, it's because I am.

I will not, however, advise you to avoid marriage. I will, though, advise you to take a long hard look at yourself and your partner before you make that leap. If there's something minor that bugs you now about her, that will magnify after marriage.

For me, personally, while I was in the midst of my divorce, I had good friends promise me that if I ever felt like getting married again, they were to remind me of the pain and cost of that time and situation.

So... when marriage works, it's great.

When it doesn't work, it's hell on earth.

It's also a gamble. People change, circumstances get in the way, in-laws butt in, children emerge, diapers need to be changed, bank accounts diminish (so does sex drive, actually), people sag and put on weight...

Don't mean to be a real downer about this. But if I had known then what I know now...

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Scared Single, you're welcome

As a man, if you can name one advantage you can attain in marriage that you cannot get while single, marry her.

If you can name one liability she'll have being married that she doesn't while single, marry her.

There is not a single advantage a man has being married and nothing but responsibility, accountability and liabilities for commiting to marriage; if you are with a woman who daily, shows you she appreciates you sacrifices for her security and truly understands what you lose by marrying her, marry her.

I've yet to have a woman, single or married, explained to me what's in it for the guy. Without fail they dance around the question hoping I'll go away.

 

[Wyldfire]

What to expect out of marriage?

Usually divorce.


I don't see the need for marriage. It's just a piece of paper that adds undue stress, pressure and problems to a relationship.

 

[Wyldfire]

Originally posted by Rollo Tomassi
Scared Single, you're welcome

As a man, if you can name one advantage you can attain in marriage that you cannot get while single, marry her.

If you can name one liability she'll have being married that she doesn't while single, marry her.

There is not a single advantage a man has being married and nothing but responsibility, accountability and liabilities for commiting to marriage; if you are with a woman who daily, shows you she appreciates you sacrifices for her security and truly understands what you lose by marrying her, marry her.

I've yet to have a woman, single or married, explained to me what's in it for the guy. Without fail they dance around the question hoping I'll go away.

There's only a very few things that benefit a man in marriage. He gets better tax breaks and cheaper insurance. As a woman, I have to say I don't think there's much in it for either men or women to marry. I wouldn't advise anyone to get married.

 

[alphawolfx]

before getting married, consider a few things...

is the relationship ALREADY great? (marriage doesn't make it better, and apparently some people think this)

do you have the same basic VALUES?

how do you resolve conflicts or fights?
if all you do is give in or force her to give in and harbor resentment... one day you'll explode... if you can truly agree to disagree, and still think the other person is the greatest person you've ever met... go for it

if anything, see a marriage counselor BEFORE you get married (when you're considering it...)

and it also depends on the individuals as well... two half-people do not make one whole person. (mentally/emotionallY0

 

[cave dweller]

rate..........

Hey,

I think the divorce rate, on 1st time marriages, runs 55% to 58% per state.

On second marriages it runs 65% to 70%.

You be the judge.

cave dweller

 

[Luveno]

Marriage, in the past, was insurance for both parties to prevent and screwing around. Now that women own divorces, it really doesn't hold any advantage to guys to get married. Absolutely none. Its expensive, its pointless, and at the very worst it makes the girl too comfortable..

Remember how we said women hate permanent goodbyes? Marriage makes a permanent goodbye almost impossible.
Its a terrible thing for a man to do. It ruins the lives of the man and even possibly any children involved.

I will stay away from marriage.

 

[Wyldfire]

You wouldn't think I'm "crazy" for not being a fan of marriage if you had of experienced (and still had to contend with) the nightmare that is my Borderline Personality Disorder afflicted ex-husband.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Here it is in simple terms -

A man's primary drive is sex; unlimited access to unlimited sexuality. His secondary need is security (which for a man translates to loyalty).

A woman's primary drive is security, this may be emotional, financial, psychological, etc. depending on her conditions. Her secondary need is sex (i.e. "damn, I've never done the pool boy before" or the 'bad boy', fix-him attraction).

When a man marries a woman he is basically sacrificing his primary drive to satisfy her primary drive and is essentially betting his ambition, status, financial standing and any future improvements to these that he can repress, or she can satisfy his primary drive.

 

[Wyldfire]

Originally posted by Rollo Tomassi


When a man marries a woman he is basically sacrificing his primary drive to satisfy her primary drive and is essentially betting his ambition, status, financial standing and any future improvements to these that he can repress, or she can satisfy his primary drive.

You've got the first part backwards. Men don't sacrifice their primary drive when they get married. Men have always gotten married believing that they would get all the sex they wanted and would have someone to cook for, clean up after and take care of them. Don't try to make it sound like men have historically sacrificed in order to satisfy women because both genders have always been equally as self-serving. That's just life...

 

[earthshyne]

Originally posted by Wyldfire
Men have always gotten married believing that they would get all the sex they wanted and would have someone to cook for, clean up after and take care of them.

That's right. These men bought the big lie that has been used by some wimmen, up to and including the present time, to lure the men into marriage. I bought it too, and it eventually shattered my self-respect, my career and my bank account.

I think I understand where you're coming from, wyld, but I'm afraid I don't buy it.

If you go into any office building and ask any fellow why he works loooong hours and punishes his body by overwork and essentially pushes himself into a first heart attack about the age of 50, he'll show you a picture of his wife and kids. "That's why," he'll say, "to take care of them."

I don't doubt for a moment that these fellows work themselves into an early grave out of love. That takes a courage and a strength I certainly don't have. But what's the result? He's dead. His widow, who withheld sex and compassion from him at the most trifling of provocations, and his children who now have developed an attitude of expectation based on his own desires to keep them clothed and fed, and his now-widow's influence, are still around long after he's gone, feeding off the fat that he produced (metaphorically speaking, of course).

I will never forget a discussion that took place between my grandparents and my parents when I was a boy. My grandmother, a wonderful woman who smelled of lilac, always made sure that her husband, a gentle and considerate man, knew that there was always a part of her that he could never touch, an independent streak that remained off limits to him. Grandfather, on the other hand, had given his entire heart, soul, career and eventually his life to his wife and his family without reservation.

He eventually died, leaving his wife to marry again, with the money he had made and invested and watched.

So you tell me: Who got the better end of that deal?

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

WYLDFIRE: No, actually that's called a 'bait & switch' marriage. But you just made my point for me; Guys, being motivated by sex, (their primary impulse) 'think' that marriage will ensure at least the same degree and frequency of sexual experience for a lifetime. Thus he sacrifices his potential opportunities for more frequent or better quality sexual experiences in single life (his primary motivation), in exchange for what he perceives to be a steady supply of acceptable frequency and quality experiences with the woman he chooses to sacrifice them for in marriage. She gets an ironclad guarantee of security from the state, her peers, both his and her families, the legal system and popular culture in exchange for her regularly meeting his primary drive, only to her set limitations.

What's funny is that every married guy I've ever known has the same exact story - sex ALWAYS decreases in passion and frequency after marriage. I have yet to encounter a married male to ever say that he had sex more frequently or that his wife was more passionate or uninhibited in the bedroom than when he was single or they were dating. In fact, it's almost universally the opposite. Even my religious friends who (allegedly) abstained from sex before marriage say the same thing, "we had sex like rabbits until she got pregnant and now I'm lucky if she's into it twice a month."

What I was implying in my last post was that men sacrifice their potential (in being single and uncommitted) to have sex with many women to satisfy her drive for security in marriage. Until women can spontaneously generate the same levels of testosterone that men do every day of their lives they will never appreciate the degree of this sacrifice. Never.

 

[Wyldfire]

I never said the man actually got all the sex he THOUGHT he would get. I said that is part of what motivates men to marry...along with assuming the wifey will do the laundry, clean up after him, cook for him and all those other things his mother did.

Now keep in mind...everytime someone tells me they're getting married I tell them they're an idiot. So I'm not defending either gender here. The bottom line is that both men and women are selfish, self-serving, lazy and in it for whatever they can get IN MOST CASES. I know all about this because I was married for 10 years myself, and I'm living proof that women get burned just like men do.

Men are no more victims than women are...the problem is that no one takes marriage seriously and don't view it as a partnership that is supposed to benefit both equally and requires equal work put in by both parties. And earth, you were just as dumb as I was in choosing to marry someone who was selfish and didn't take it seriously. You gotta live with your choices in life and own your mistakes. I blame myself for being a bonehead...so should you. No point in playing the victim because you don't learn a damn thing from that.

Again...NO ONE should get married UNLESS they are 100% positive that both they AND the person they are planning on marrying are thoroughly committed and devoted to putting everything they have into making it work. Since that's a really huge risk to take and virtually impossible to know for sure...I say DON'T get married. It doesn't get a man more sex. It doesn't get a woman security. It doesn't guarantee a higher quality life for children and it sure as hell doesn't mean "happily ever after" for anyone. It usually means bitter divorce and custody battles and at least 18 years of aggravation, headaches and discontent. Ain't worth it, not by a long shot. Just live in sin instead...

 

[earthshyne]

Originally posted by Wyldfire
You gotta live with your choices in life and own your mistakes. I blame myself for being a bonehead...so should you. No point in playing the victim because you don't learn a damn thing from that.

All self-admitted boneheads, raise your hand... *a sea of hands flutters in the air like white flags of surrender*...

I gave up on blaming myself, wyld. It's not about playing the victim - next to assigning blame, victim-playing is about as big a waste of time as there is - but it is about realizing that what was promised and what was delivered were two entirely different things.

Let's say you go into an electronics store to purchase a stereo. (This is on top of mind for me right now because I'm replacing a unit that my ex now has... oh, ain't irony grand?) The saleserson says that, among other things, it produces 200 watts of power. The manual says it produces 200 watts of power. It's advertised as producing 200 watts of power. So you buy it, take it home, then realize that it only produces 200 watts of power for the first few months, then some sort of internal mechanism cuts the power output by over 50%.

Too late to take it back.

So... was the purchaser a victim, or was the purchaser misled?

Same rules apply. Except, of course, getting rid of a stereo doesn't take lawyers and massive amounts of money and emotional thrashing.

 

[Wyldfire]

earth...you shoulda gone the "rent to own" route.

Then you would have found out it wasn't wise to make the purchase.

 

[earthshyne]

Originally posted by Wyldfire
earth...you shoulda gone the "rent to own" route.

Then you would have found out it wasn't wise to make the purchase.

Agreed. Shoulda, woulda, coulda... all make sense in retrospect.

One caveat: just because marriage didn't work for me, that's not to say it won't work for someone else. After all, if there's a 50% divorce rate, that also means there's a 50% success rate.

But I go back to my original point: it's all about expectations.

 

[Wyldfire]

Originally posted by earthshyne
Agreed. Shoulda, woulda, coulda... all make sense in retrospect.

One caveat: just because marriage didn't work for me, that's not to say it won't work for someone else. After all, if there's a 50% divorce rate, that also means there's a 50% success rate.

But I go back to my original point: it's all about expectations.

I have 3 sisters...all are married and have been for at least 20 years. None of them will ever get divorced. Had I not married a violent woman beating alcoholic with Borderline Personality Disorder I probably would have stayed married too.

So yeah, it can work...but should NEVER be entered into wearing rose colored glasses or unrealistically. There are risks, there is hard work, there is sacrifice, there are compromises to be made. If BOTH people are not mature and realistic enough to fully understand these things it's not something that should even be considered. IF anyone is going to marry they should live together for 3 years first. If they are still happy and still want to get married then they stand a decent chance of it working.

As for me...it would take an amazing man, duct tape, rope and chloroform to ever get me to the altar again. You know what they say...once bitten, twice shy.

 

[earthshyne]

Originally posted by Wyldfire
... duct tape, rope and chloroform...

I'm liking you more and more. Handcuffs can be fun too. Ever given nitrous oxide a whirl?

What are you doing tonight??

 

[Wyldfire]

Originally posted by earthshyne
I'm liking you more and more. Handcuffs can be fun too. Ever given nitrous oxide a whirl?

What are you doing tonight??

Oh man...don't go there...you're going to get me accused of being an Attention Wh*re again.

Besides...haven't you learned that you should never EVER show any interest in a woman who has been abused in the past...especially one who is also a single mother?

Go read the Bible post haste...