What should I do (or not do)?. Was I too nice?

[Fairguy]

Hi, something happened to me recently, and I was wondering if any of you guys had any input, as it would help me a lot.

I met this girl at a party, I really liked her, but did not do anything to show her that (basically I did not care what happened), and as it is extensively reported here, that worked, as we ended up making out that day. She was all "are you the "typical guy"? (meaning jackass that uses them and leaves them hanging, etc), and I told her that I was not, but that I could not prove it, and that the only way she could find out is if she knew me better, i.e., with time. I asked for her phone (as I said, I really liked her), and she gave it to me, but with the attitude like if I was never going to call her. I actually told her I was going to call her the next day, and she was like "yeah right"....

I did call her the next day, and asked her out for coffee, I just was interested in getting to know her better, no big deal. She agreed immediately, so we met and talked for several hours. When she was going to leave, she made a move on me, and kissed me (the gentleman I am, I could not say "no".. )

Well, I invited her to dinner the next week, and she said yes, I cooked, and we talked a lot. She realized (I guess) that I was genuinely interested in her, so she told me that she was getting out of a breakup, and she needed some time to figure her things out. I said "no problem, take all the time you need"... later that night, we made out more (she started it), and when things were getting hot, she decided that she better left at that point (she knew that if she stayed longer, she would have slept over). I did not insist, because my goal was not to have sex with her (at least not yet), I genuinely wanted to know her better, and see where things could go. Ok, so here is where the problems started:

The dinner was on friday, we talked during the weekend over the phone (I called her), we did not talk about "us" then. The next tuesday, she sent me an email where she said:

Thank you so much for dinner. It was really nice. The lasagna was delicious! I really enjoyed our dinner and conversation. I want you to know I enjoy spending time with you, but because of my recent breakup it will take time for me to get back into things. It has nothing to do with you, in fact you are great. I hope you understand and give me time because you are a great person.

Have a great day! talk to you soon.

This was my response to that communication:

About the dinner.... it was my pleasure!!.. .... I am glad you liked the food, and as it has been already three days since we ate, I can be sure you survived my cooking!! (so did I, and I had a wayyyyy higher dose than you did... ... One of these days we can eat it again…

I deeply appreciate your words, and I want to let you know that I do understand what you are going through, and I will not take it personally. You should take all the time you need, and do what you feel is best for you. I support you 100%, and if there is anything I can do for you, you just let me know... Have a wonderful day, and talk to you soon.
Her response to that email was:

Thank you for understanding my situation. Dont get the wrong idea though.....I would still like us to continue spending time together!!! That hasnt changed.
Oh, guess what. My niece and nephew saw Chicken Little without us!! So, I guess that means its just the two of us. =)
Almost lunch time! Im hungry....maybe for some lasagna!

I did not respond anything regarding us dating, or anything like that… from that point on it was more chit-chat, nothing major. She then sent an email by the end of that week, where she said that she had her weekend planned, and she said “how about we meet some time next week?”… I said “That would be great, just let me know when and where”. She did not called about it, I sent her a couple of emails just asking how she was doing, and she finally replied (not immediately) that she had been well, just busy. Alright, I said to my self, no biggie. She then called on a Saturday night to say “hi”, said she would call me next week to hang out together, and we hung up. She has not called to this day (is Friday), nd I believe she will not call.

What do you think is happening here? Was I “too nice”? I believe she just does not want to hang out, but then why would she go out of her way to say that she did want to? I can take rejection, not a problem, but I hate when women try to “let me down” easy, or try to “not hurt me”… I would rather have her saying “I changed my mind”, or “I do not want to see you anymore”, or anything, but I do not like people saying they will do one thing and then just do not do it.

I believe she is not interested in me anymore, but I would like to find out for sure. I wonder if I should just call her and ask her straight, or just let the things like this. If I ask her, I think she will tell me if she is not attracted anymore, if that is really the case. However, if it is not, then I would be screwing up any possibility, right?. But if I do not do anything, the curiosity will kill me!! (well, not literally,but I would definitely would like to know what happened).

What do you guys think? Should I call her and ask her to be honest and direct? I am still interested in her, though, so I would not like to ruin my chances, although realistically speaking, it seems there isn’t any!! :-S

Thanks for any input.

Fairguy

 

[Fairguy]

Thanks frivol

Thanks for your input, man..

Yeah, I agree that if she is not interested it does not matter. Although I would like to know if that is the case for sure... What do you think... should I ask her what is she up to (reg. interested or not interested), or should I just refrain from calling and see what happens.... I am setting (or trying to, at least) my mind up to the fact that she is not interested... so basically I am trying to see the situation as if I was just "kissed and left", and that's all there is to it.

Which makes it a bit hard is that I really felt a connection with this person, and what I would like to have in a relationship is somebody I do not have to "pretend" that I don't care, or that I am not interested..... I am interested in a relationship where the other person realizes that if I am nice to her is because she deserves it, and not guess that if I am being too nice to her there might be something wrong with me... (in all honesty, and thinking rationally, I honestly think that if a girl thinks being "too nice" to her is a flaw, then the girl actually is the one who has a problem, and that should reg flag her right there).. However, I do not know if what I want in a relationship is too idealistic, and you actually do have to play these games... I am beggining to wonder if such a woman exists (one that actually gets turned on by being treated well from the very beggining)...

Thanks again for your reply, and any other advvice is well appreciated....

Fairguy

 

[Wyldfire]

I don't think you were too nice, but I do think you let her take the lead too much. You let her make the first move twice. You left the next date time and place up to her. You shouldn't do that. If you do, you make the girl feel like she's the guy. That's a turn off.

You are the guy and you should learn to read the girl's signals when she wants you to make a move and you should plan the dates and have a set plan before asking her.

Things were too..."tentative"...and that's what went wrong.

You can still salvage things if you come up with a set plan and call her with it. If she doesn't accept or give an alternative time you can set for definite at that time, then you may as well move on.

Take the lead in the future...don't leave the guy's job to the girl.

 

[tmpgstx]

Good points - think you have to realize that she may have been with some 'jackasses' and this is what she is accustom too. You know, what she considers as the 'typical guy'. She said this to you herself. Too nice is going to come off as awkward to her.

You were kewl about it but came across as too supportive like a good boyfriend that gets cheated on. You didn't show any backbone unfortuantely, but that's not to say you don't have one. It's just her mind she may only have those 'jackass' guys to compare you with and you come across as the good samaritan.

Wlyde makes a good point about taking the lead. Anything male or naturally dominate is attractive to a woman. Anything submissive or subserviant is a turn-off.

Next time (or with her), ask yourself if i were to look at this from an outside angle, am i being the man? Am i in control and taking things where they need to go by reading the signs?

 

[Jamo]

ok

From my experience. I used to be exactly the kind of guy you are. And I got slammed for it....till I fell to pieces. Trust me it was a very tough and very painful learning experience...very very painful. I still have those cameo "nice" moments and I really punish myself for them - they always work against me. Niceness does NOT work it is AFC.

Im sorry Friv I must disagree with you. Niceness is one of the biggest AFC qualities. Being a gentleman is different.

What Wyldfyre says is right. Take the lead.

Whether it is too late or not in this case, I'd say 50/50. But you are on the verge of being LJBFed unless you drop that "I really like you, and I will wait for you" attititude.

 

[Jamo]

yep

McDiddy explained it perfectly.

 

[Wyldfire]

I think he poured the empathy on a little thick...but you CAN get away with some of that. This early on, that won't damage anything. The problem is that he kept waiting for her to be the man instead of him taking the initiative.

 

[Fairguy]

Thanks everyone for the input.

Wildfyre, I see your point on "taking the lead"... however, when she told me she needed time to figure things out, was I suposed to still make a move on her?...(that's why when we made out after she told me that I did not start the thing, but she did... I thought it would be pushy to make a move on her right after she said she needed time....What do you think?

I really like the girl, but I definitely do not want to be around somebody that does not want to be around me...it is perfectly clear now that she does not want to spend time together, so at this point what I want to do is talk to her to straigthen things up. I know it will be tha last chat I will have with her, but I feel I need the closure. I was doing just fine without romantic issues before, and I want to keep it that way.

 

[Wyldfire]

Taking things slow doesn't mean not moving at all. Waiting for her to make the first move with the kissing part was alright. However, the next date situation was a bad call for you to leave up to her. By leaving it up to her you now find yourself stuck not knowing what is going on and at her mercy. The man should ALWAYS take the lead as much as possible...but without being an ass.

 

[Chrispy]

It sounds like there is potential for this to move ahead, but at the same time there isn't. Although you left it on her court to decide the when/where, she sort of put you in that position since she's getting out of a break up. Not sure if this is true or not but she is not completely single/ still have some baggage left over.

The timing is bad. You can't really change that. I think should just leave it to her to contact you - she won't - and maybe after a few weeks you can e-mail her again and take the charge to set up another date.

The situation can still be salvaged - you just need to shift the timing in your favor!

 

[bossdog]

you need to put her in check. tell her u dont have time for games and u thought she was better then that. Dont be scared to get mad at her. girls love drama and it will keep her thinking about you.

shes keeping u on the line while she messes with other dudes. pretty standard really. dont feel bad at all. every girl has at least one dude they keep on the line as a backup plan. A nice guy they use to pump up thier ego.

you sound like a mature guy. u dont want just sex from females. But u are being a lil too nice. u have to show her all your sides. your nice side your mean side your romantic side your funny side. peace

 

[Fairguy]

thanks and update...

Hi everyone, and thanks again for the responses...

bossdog

Yes, you are right, I am not interested in the women "just for the sex" (I went through that stage already, and although it was fun, I am not interested in only that anymore). Come to think of it, may be this is the wrong forum for this (because I assume that by definition, a "Don Juan" is a guy that has a lot of success with the "ladies" (plural emphazised), and that is not my goal, but anyway I have found some interesting comments and points of view here, and I believe you can learn from everywhere)...

An update of the situation:

During the weekend I saw her, and told her pretty much what Bossdog recommended... I did not get confrontational, though...

I told her that I knew I had come on to her very strongly, and that I knew (from previous experiencies) that I did everything wrong in the sense that the way people is supposed to be misterious, not lay out all your cards that early in the process, etc.... I told her that I knew that was going to work against my chances (and I really knew it), but I told her that anyway I want a relationship where I don't have to "pretend" I don't like you if I really do, and I want a woman that is not put off by that. I told her that I do not want to be worried about what I "have" to do to get certain responses from her, or in other words, that I did not want to feel that I had to control her in order for her to like me... I want her to like me because of who I am, not because who she thinks I am... I told her I did not want to be worried about when I call her, and If a do then I have to wait for a while, so she does not think I like her "too much". Anyway, I told her that, and that I understood her situation (reg. the recent breakup), and told her that I did not want her to tell me she is going to call me if she does not mean it, or tell me to "give her time" if that is not what she meant. I told her that in any case, if anything was supposed to happen, I need her to be honest with me, that I can take rejection, and that definitely I would respect her more if she is straight with me. She agreed, apologized for not having been straight, and told me that for now she was not interested in anything more than friendship (which I already kinda knew, but I wanted to hear it from her). We will keep in touch, and that is fine, because I am not wondering about what is she thinking anymore.... That is what sucks (for me, at least), the "not knowing" part. I know where I am standing now, and won't be expecting anything more than friendship with her (which is fine for me).

In the end, I have very clear what I want, and that is, as I menationed before, that I want a woman with whom I do not have to "play cool". I want a woman that does not believe that somebosy can be "too nice" for her, because if that is the case, then I think the woman may have her own issues I do not want to deal with. I know that most women (and men also, for that matter) behave that way, and that means that my chances of getting someone like I want are slim, but hey, I will not settle for less anyway.

I hope I will find a woman like that, but if not, I will remain single... not a problem with that....

Thanks again to all of you for the input, and I am open for any comments, suggestions, or anything that's on your mind.

Fairguy.

 

[bossdog]

im prolly alot younger than you and less mature, but i believe that dealing with women you have to play it cool to some extent because that is the way it works.

By not playing it cool your suggesting that you make it(or would like to make it) known how serious you are about a girl very early in the relationship.

Many women may see this as being desperate. They have not been with you long enough to show u everything about themselves. They need to feel as if they earned your affection. do you see what im trying to say?

Kinda like with cats. If uve ever been around cats u know they arent like dogs. you dont run up to them and pick them up and start petting them. You play it cool or else you will scare them off.

Ask yourself this. How long does it take for someone to truely know you. How long does it take for you to truely know somebody.

The bad news is girls act like cats lol. the good news is i just saved alot of money on my car insurance by switching to geico. church

 

[Fairguy]

Yes Bossdog, I see what you'r saying.... and unfortunately, most of the women (I certainly hope not ALL) act like that (i.e., you have to play it "cool" at the beggining....)

I should clarify that, however, I believe I did not act "desperate", in the sense that I was not calling her or asking her to see me...I actually left the "lead" to her, as she mentioned that she needed time (silly me, I actually thought that's what she needed.. )... If I was calling her every day, or telling her I loved her (which I did not), I could understand how I could be perceived as desperate... (hell, I would be running away from a person that is telling me she loves me after a week!! ;-) ).... I am fully aware that I still do not know the other person, but what I tried to do was to let her know that, from what I have known about her, I thought she was great and I definitely wanted to get to know her better.... she was "put off" by me letting her know that I liked her a lot this early (which by no means meant that I loved her, at least for me....may be that's what it looked like that for her, therefore I may have looked "desperate" in her eyes).

Usually, from what I have lived so far, there is a point in which you can be all open and it actually helps the romance, and not scare the woman, but this is after you have played it cool, and she is already in love with you. What I would like to find now is somebody you can be open with from the very beggining, and that be a good thing, not a turn off (very difficult, I know, but hopefully possible). I do believe I did not played it desperate, mostly because I did leave the ball in her court (although some recommendations suggest I do otherwise, and they are appreciated and the note is taken.. ;-) ).

I have the theory that when a girl is put off by being nice (and I acknowledge that the majority of women do) is more a matter of self esteem than of you being nice. What I mean is that I believe they (this majority of women) think "why is this guy being this nice to me, if he does not even know me?.. there must be something wrong with HIM if he is this nice this early towards ME"... This mind set assumes the guy MUST have something wrong for liking her this much this early, but NEVER considers the alternative that the reason he is so nice is because SHE deserves it, and that's it. She does not consider that it may not be a matter of desperation, but of genuine interest towards her. I may be wrong with this, but again, is my theory (and this fall into place with the very widely spread concept that "the girls are attracted to the "bad boys", which unfortunately is true in many many cases).

I think this girl was genuinely attracted towards me at the beggining (phisically), but when she realized I did really mean that I was genuinely interested in her, and was not like "most" guys (reffer to my early definition of "most"), then she lost interest. If that was the case, and taking into account that I am not after a woman just for the sex, in the end it will be better for me, as she may have some issues that may become a problem later in a relationship. Short term kinda sucks, of course, because even though I know deep down what I want out of a relationship, bottom line is that I was rejected now. I do learn from the experience, though.

Regards,

Fairguy

 

[Fairguy]

Yes Chrispy, I agree

Timing was terrible.... and I can not do anything about that....

I will not pursue her in a romantic way anymore. She is a friend of a friend of mine, so I will probably see her again sometimes, but I will not make any romantic advance towards her anymore. She already knows what I thought about her, and she decided to "pass", so I'll just leave it at that. Although it may sound as "sour grapes", I think "her loss".. ;-)

Thanks for your opinion,

Fairguy

 

[Jamo]

*sigh*

Fairguy, you remind me of how i used to be. You will be quite frustrated for a long time. I truly wish that one could be totally straight with a girl, and have her like you just because you are honest and nice. I truly wish it was like that. Really. But unfortunately it is not, that is the harsh, and perverse truth about relationships. What you talk about is the 1/1000000000th fairytale relationship, but sorry no one has the patience to hold out for that, and it might as well never happen.

You are going to have to accept some level of game as "boilerplate". Otherwise it is going to be porn mags and lube for a long time.

 

[Jamo]

*sigh*

Fairguy, you remind me of how i used to be (and still am at times, but I fight it tooth and nail everyday till I beat that self destructive crap out of me and I will succeed!!!). You will be quite frustrated for a long time. I truly wish that one could be totally straight with a girl, and have her like you just because you are honest and nice. I truly wish it was like that. Really. But unfortunately it is not, that is the harsh, and perverse truth about relationships. What you talk about is the 1/1000000000th fairytale relationship, but sorry no one has the patience to hold out for that, and it might as well never happen.

You are going to have to accept some level of game as "boilerplate". Otherwise it is going to be porn mags and lube for a long time.



ps. Read the DJ bible and learn it by heart. Then practice. That is the best advice you are going to get for your situ. Keep this girl as a good friend and use her to meet other girls.