What is the importance of being muscular nowaday?

[JohnChops]

Powerlifting and the like (crossfit, WSM, etc) are more competitive extensions of bodybuilding, if you're so stuck on the beauty pageant aspect of it.

But since you decided not to address anything I posted in my last reply, I'll just finish with this:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sport?s=t



It's clear you don't take anything that YOU personally don't find 'challenging' as a sport, as you admitted you don't think track or swimming are sports - even though both are in the OLYMPICS, when martial arts isn't.

And not to mention that both date back THOUSANDS of years as competitive sports.

But I guess we're all wrong and as such, there's nothing left to discuss.

/thread. Zinc you realize professional eating , cup stacking are sports

 

[Who Dares Win]

I dont believe that pushing further the "is bb a real sport?" point helps with this thread however let me ask you something:

If marching for 10 km is a sport, why bb is not granted such status given the whole process,planning,sweating and discipiline behind it? let alone the results.

Does it takes a direct competition to be considered sport? so since cyclists dont interact with each other unlike soccer players, then cycling is not a sport either?

 

[DanZy]

I think Zinc4's point is that bodybuilding requires no talent or skill, the elite guys are pumped full of roids and have awesome genetics on top of that etc

 

[muscleman]

I think Zinc4's point is that bodybuilding requires no talent or skill, the elite guys are pumped full of roids and have awesome genetics on top of that etc

1) Talent is highly overrated. The most successful people in all endeavors in all of history have been serious hustlers. Read some biographies.

2) Skill is just the ability to do something well, which takes practice and repetition. Lifting properly and getting past a certain point requires skill just like anything else. Some of you need to go back to English class and learn what words mean.

3) Bodybuilding is not all about the 'elite' guys. And those who do roids still bust their ass harder than 99% of the guys on this board. You don't just inject yourself and boom you have muscles (for the record I've never done roids and don't intend on it as I see no benefit for me personally). You still have to eat right, train right, rest right, have discipline, and train hard. As for 'genetics', that's the #1 most common cop-out for people who are out of shape. They blame it on some uncontrollable factor rather than their own laziness.

 

[TheStig]

To me, all of these choices for the importance of being muscular are simply bonuses that you might get. If you're muscular, there's a 99% chance you workout at least moderately hard. Doing this kind of intense physical activity makes you feel awesome. That's why I do it. For me. Fvck what anyone else thinks of me for working out, be it girls, guys, co workers, family members etc... I do it because it makes me feel great and I want to improve myself. Not for anyone else...I do it for myself.

 

[typical]

Okay please go to the gym tomorrow and bench 160 kgs for 10 reps and tell me it's not hard. The following day go deadlift 300 kgs and tell me its not hard. The next day go squat 300 kgs (below parallel) and tell me its not hard.

Too man skinny white boys talking out of their a$$es here who have most likely never ever stepped into a proper controlled fight.

If you still think that strength size and speed don't matter, then tomorrow morning go to your local boxing/kickboxing gym and challenge a guy that is in decent shape and out weighs you by 10 kgs to a full contact 5 round spar session with no head gear and knock him out. I bet all you under 80kg guys will get knocked out flat no matter how many abs you think you have or how many years of experience you have in your martial art.

Here's a fact universal to all traditional martial arts .... they are based upon reacting to what your opponent does. I have in my youth destroyed guys that have had 5-10 years of so called expertise in numerous martial arts because they are always "reacting" and have never ever trained how to take the lead and try and kill the other guy. This you can not argue. Yes I agree that if you spend your entire life devoted to a pure martial art you will become a force to be reckoned with. And most of the so called exhibition fights are so biased and rigged they can be laughed at, you always have a bunch of unfit useless morons who are trying to go up against a dude with years and years of training and are obviously going to get railed.

Coming back to Bruce Lee, his form of win chun is utterly useless against a guy that knows how to fight, it looks cool and that's all there is to it. Bruce Lee himself only done exhibitions and nothing more he was all theory but today when his theory is being put to the test his teachings are getting ripped apart left right and center. Whenever anyone who came from a decent martial arts background challenged Lee he always copped out with the usual "I am not ready yet". The guy was a celebrity nothing more, you're a fool if you idolize a man who could never put his teachings into a real world aspect. From the top of my head I do remember Lee sparring against some dutch judo expert and he got absolutely man handled.

Also I can kick a bag hard enough to tear through the canvas but kicking a canvas bag filled with sand and tire's is nothing compared to kicking a guy who is equally as fit and strong as you are in a ring with nowhere to run and no one to save you.

Having said all of this I still recommend that if you ever want to get into decent shape pick up a full contact martial art and throw in some muay thai lessons go lift some serious weights, and in about 6 monthsto 12 months time you will be made of steel. And always refrain from having to fight someone in the streets as you don't know if they have a weapon on them or if their mates are gonna jump you from behind and stab you in the kidney.

 

[zinc4]

1) Talent is highly overrated. The most successful people in all endeavors in all of history have been serious hustlers. Read some biographies.

2) Skill is just the ability to do something well, which takes practice and repetition. Lifting properly and getting past a certain point requires skill just like anything else. Some of you need to go back to English class and learn what words mean.

3) Bodybuilding is not all about the 'elite' guys. And those who do roids still bust their ass harder than 99% of the guys on this board. You don't just inject yourself and boom you have muscles (for the record I've never done roids and don't intend on it as I see no benefit for me personally). You still have to eat right, train right, rest right, have discipline, and train hard. As for 'genetics', that's the #1 most common cop-out for people who are out of shape. They blame it on some uncontrollable factor rather than their own laziness.

Just like the above poster said...bodybuilders are for the most part talentless guys with no real skills who are just obsessed with beefing up their bodies....sorry but i can't respect that as much as I can a REAL athlete who plays a real sport becomes great at it. Who do you think is respected more...a guy like Peyton Manning or Jay Cutler...or Michael Jordan or one of the greatest bodybuilders of all-time...it's really no contest.

 

[zinc4]

Okay please go to the gym tomorrow and bench 160 kgs for 10 reps and tell me it's not hard. The following day go deadlift 300 kgs and tell me its not hard. The next day go squat 300 kgs (below parallel) and tell me its not hard.

Too man skinny white boys talking out of their a$$es here who have most likely never ever stepped into a proper controlled fight.

If you still think that strength size and speed don't matter, then tomorrow morning go to your local boxing/kickboxing gym and challenge a guy that is in decent shape and out weighs you by 10 kgs to a full contact 5 round spar session with no head gear and knock him out. I bet all you under 80kg guys will get knocked out flat no matter how many abs you think you have or how many years of experience you have in your martial art.

Here's a fact universal to all traditional martial arts .... they are based upon reacting to what your opponent does. I have in my youth destroyed guys that have had 5-10 years of so called expertise in numerous martial arts because they are always "reacting" and have never ever trained how to take the lead and try and kill the other guy. This you can not argue. Yes I agree that if you spend your entire life devoted to a pure martial art you will become a force to be reckoned with. And most of the so called exhibition fights are so biased and rigged they can be laughed at, you always have a bunch of unfit useless morons who are trying to go up against a dude with years and years of training and are obviously going to get railed.

Coming back to Bruce Lee, his form of win chun is utterly useless against a guy that knows how to fight, it looks cool and that's all there is to it. Bruce Lee himself only done exhibitions and nothing more he was all theory but today when his theory is being put to the test his teachings are getting ripped apart left right and center. Whenever anyone who came from a decent martial arts background challenged Lee he always copped out with the usual "I am not ready yet". The guy was a celebrity nothing more, you're a fool if you idolize a man who could never put his teachings into a real world aspect. From the top of my head I do remember Lee sparring against some dutch judo expert and he got absolutely man handled.

Also I can kick a bag hard enough to tear through the canvas but kicking a canvas bag filled with sand and tire's is nothing compared to kicking a guy who is equally as fit and strong as you are in a ring with nowhere to run and no one to save you.

Having said all of this I still recommend that if you ever want to get into decent shape pick up a full contact martial art and throw in some muay thai lessons go lift some serious weights, and in about 6 monthsto 12 months time you will be made of steel. And always refrain from having to fight someone in the streets as you don't know if they have a weapon on them or if their mates are gonna jump you from behind and stab you in the kidney.

Skinny white boys....if you can lift that much than i guess i will have to assume you are a roided/protein shaked pumped up black guy....your lifting numbers don't impress me too much...

By the way...a REAL fight happens on the street and real martial arts are for real life purposes not in a controlled setting..in real life you are attacked by multiple guys and maybe with weapons...a controlled setting is more of a sport than a fight, but i still def consider them fighters..just saying not everything is designed for a controlled and organized fight...

Lifting that much has little to do with actual fighting.....yeah it provides strength but that is about it...also like i said...lifting is not hard compared to holding static stances like the horse stance...if you are strong enough to barely bench 160 kgs 10 times than it is not hard pain wise...where as opposed to say you can barely hold a 6 minute horse stance before falling on the floor...the 6 min stance will hurt a lot more than the lifting will and will require much more concentrration...and the guy who can hold the stance will be much more centered and balanced than the heavy lifter he just won't be as beefy...

Training several years in numerous arts is stupid...of course a decent fighter would destroy them...unless those guys maybe trained a lot in wrestling and brazilian JJ 2 styles that you can become adequate at fairly quickly...but if something like kungfu and karate together or stuff like that..forget it...most styles of kungfu takes a really long time and extreme dedication to become a good fighter at it...


Also, i am not a Bruce Lee fan, but he could in fact fight...i really don't know why you think otherwise...there are plenty of eye witness accounts and records to back this up and he did a lot for martial arts in general...but as far as real kungfu goes, he wasn't nearly one of the greatest....and wing chun in general is limited and weak...there are real Longfist and some southern style masters who could rip apart any mma fighter if they had to...i am talking about guys who have completely destroyed their egos a long time ago and could care less about proving anything to anyone like the beefed up narcistic mma guys money and fame chasing mma guys........

I will tell you also who could f%ck up a lot of the mma guys....a good traditional Muay Thai kickboxer...tho ones who actually train in Thailand.., like Buakaw for instance, who also did some cross training...most mma guys only train a few hours a day and at a multitude of different styles...they don't even truly live it and breathe it every second of the day...like i said the Shaolin monks are the best fighters and the best physically conditioned in the world but it is against their religion to fight for show...

And of course strength, size and speed matter when comparing people trained on a physical basis...but internal strength is much greater than any kind of muscular strength....there are some high level tai chi and Kungfu guys who could destroy any mma fighter or kickboxer with ease...like i said, i have seen stuff here by some masters that you will never see on TV or the news and that few people would ever believe unless they experienced themselves...

 

[TheWolfMan]

Fully agree with muscleman. I don't really care that women prefer the skinny jean wearing 130lbs soaking wet guys. I like being big, I like being strong. I pick things up, I put them down because I'm a goddamn man. Anyway It's useless to argue with Zinc at this point because we're detracting from the main point of the thread. It's simple if you want to be big and strong, have confidence and high self-esteem then work out, if you don't want any of that and prefer to play the skinny b!tch part then go that route.

 

[JohnChops]

Just like the above poster said...bodybuilders are for the most part talentless guys with no real skills who are just obsessed with beefing up their bodies....sorry but i can't respect that as much as I can a REAL athlete who plays a real sport becomes great at it. Who do you think is respected more...a guy like Peyton Manning or Jay Cutler...or Michael Jordan or one of the greatest bodybuilders of all-time...it's really no contest.

Kai Greene is smarter and wiser than youll ever be zinc. I'm sorry but these guys have to educate them selves about the body and mind. Eat like horses and know what works and what doesn't work. I'm sick of people bashing them because of steroid use as well. You do realize that if you take steroids and have no idea what you are doing/do not lift hard you will not gain a pound. I know people who were idiots and took some type of steroid before research and 1. Gained only 5 pounds from a 12 week cycle and 2. Lost all their gains and mass after the cycle was over because of an unproper post cycle therapy.

To say bodybuilders are "dumb" is a serious understatement. Many are very intelligent beings.

I don't get why we are arguing anyway , you don't like bodybuilding fine. Then don't like it. I on the other hand love waking up at 4am to hit the gym for some fasted cardio and then love going back at 12 pm after class to lift. Has to be my two favorite parts of the day. I think you need to educate yourself on the sport before you bash it. And also learn the difference between "Synthol" and "steroid/ph."

To add to the post though, bodybuilding is what gave me my confidence and zen place in life. Some people like muscles and some don't it depends what type of girls you go for. For example those hardcore, skater/emoish type girls will never be attracted to me, they like skinny dudes with gauges and sh1t.

Bottom line: do you lift for yourself or do you lift for attention? If you choose the second choice, you are one of those phaggots I laugh at every time I see you flex in the mirror at the gym with your 8 inch arms and subpar core.

 

[zinc4]

Kai Greene is smarter and wiser than youll ever be zinc. I'm sorry but these guys have to educate them selves about the body and mind. Eat like horses and know what works and what doesn't work. I'm sick of people bashing them because of steroid use as well. You do realize that if you take steroids and have no idea what you are doing/do not lift hard you will not gain a pound. I know people who were idiots and took some type of steroid before research and 1. Gained only 5 pounds from a 12 week cycle and 2. Lost all their gains and mass after the cycle was over because of an unproper post cycle therapy.

To say bodybuilders are "dumb" is a serious understatement. Many are very intelligent beings.

I don't get why we are arguing anyway , you don't like bodybuilding fine. Then don't like it. I on the other hand love waking up at 4am to hit the gym for some fasted cardio and then love going back at 12 pm after class to lift. Has to be my two favorite parts of the day. I think you need to educate yourself on the sport before you bash it. And also learn the difference between "Synthol" and "steroid/ph."

To add to the post though, bodybuilding is what gave me my confidence and zen place in life. Some people like muscles and some don't it depends what type of girls you go for. For example those hardcore, skater/emoish type girls will never be attracted to me, they like skinny dudes with gauges and sh1t.

Bottom line: do you lift for yourself or do you lift for attention? If you choose the second choice, you are one of those phaggots I laugh at every time I see you flex in the mirror at the gym with your 8 inch arms and subpar core.

Anyone who does that to their bodies is not wiser than anyone...they are self deluded and narcistic..period...

And lol at defending steroid use...a lot of professional athletes across the board use it but there is nothing good about injecting poisons into your body...

 

[JohnChops]

Anyone who does that to their bodies is not wiser than anyone...they are self deluded and narcistic..period...

And lol at defending steroid use...a lot of professional athletes across the board use it but there is nothing good about injecting poisons into your body...

If you do it wrong its terrible for you of course. No Mr.Olympia has died from liver/kidney failure and all obviously dabbled with steroids and cruised on them for a long time. They are rounding their 60s and are fine.....So your argument doesn't hold any water really.

Also you do realize when they put people on TRT, testosterone replacement therapy, they use the same stuff people inject themselves with .... its not a poison its a hormone. The poison happens due to it being metabolized in your liver, but injectables don't need to be metabolized as much as something that is orally ingested. So zinc, class is in session.

 

[OC Speedball]

If anyone thinks that having a well-formed, toned body will not help you, please go.

But with that being said, if you have Lachowski's facial aesthetics you don't have to even step in the gym and you will still pull more than a ripped 8/10:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-M9XmxY1r6...o+Sauzay+%26+Viggo+Jonasson+for+Duvetica.jpeg


But most of us aren't Lachowski. Even if a girl doesn't care about body lifting will give you massive confidence and great posture. Also, the guys I know that love to lift have that ****y, easygoing, fun and funny vibe...which girls love (watch @ 2:50):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Axx4UJeZNo

It just gives you that boost of testosterone that will edge out most other guys with a low energy approach.

 

[synergy1]

Regarding the topic at hand:

I have been both - skinny and muscular. In the early 2000's, I was my height and 130 lbs. After working out, eating better, doing the right lifts etc, I am now 195 and much more muscular looking. ( Not super cut like model but whatever). Thus I have two pools of experience to draw from. Anyone who does not have this experience can not speak to it ( IE anyone who has only been skinny OR built their entire lives)

Men - men will respect you more. I see this when I am out and about on weekends. Many will converse with you if your social, and more evident still is the fact that some men want to fight me at times. SOME ( not all heh) are intimidated when I talk to their women, but I try not to make this the case. When I was skinny, they didn't pay any attention.

Women - Not even a question here. Women want to suck my D*** now in instances without any conversation. When I was skinny, they barely respected me. Part of that has to do with my game yes, but most of the attraction is done by my build so I really don't need game if a girl wants to have sex. Anyone who questions the validity of looking athletic to ones attraction to women is not athletic. Simple as that.

Long story short is that. Look good to feel good. Once you feel good, you wheel good. Life is too short to rely on "game" when in reality looking good will allow you to enlist attraction without saying a word. This has been proven to an extent that I have been able to get phone numbers ( and make out) with several women who did not speak one word of english - my next goal is to accomplish the full cycle of seduction of a women who does not speak english. This is pending...

 

[zekko]

Anyone who questions the validity of looking athletic to ones attraction to women is not athletic

There are different ways to look athletic though. A marathon runner's body is a lot different than a football player's, yet both are athletic.

My cardio fitness when I was younger was crazy - at one point when I was about 21 I was so obsessed with tennis it wasn't unusual for me to play two five set matches a day, or more. Plus I had a great tan (something that isn't talked about much here), but I was skinny.

A few years later I got into weightlifting and started bulking up. I agree you get more respect from men, no question, you become a force to be reckoned with. I think overall being more muscular has helped me with women, but I never noticed a drastic difference in the way they responded to me. There was no "night and day" that some guys talk about. I don't know if it was because younger girls were more likely to be attracted to skinny guys (the Justin Bieber/teen idol effect), or if it was because I was very fit even when I was skinny, or if it was because when I was skinny I usually had a better tan, or what. I had reasonable success both before and after.

 

[ArcBound]

And lol at defending steroid use...a lot of professional athletes across the board use it but there is nothing good about injecting poisons into your body...

Do you smoke cigarettes, drink alcohol or smoke weed? Congratulations! You have done a substance more harmful than anabolic steroids

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2c/HarmCausedByDrugsTable.svg

Most if not all of the side effects can be mitigated and bodybuilders of old like Arnold did entire cycles for years WITHOUT any PCT, yet they are still somehow alive, somehow successful and have many kids. It's almost as if steroids are not as harmful as the general public thinks.

You are right though, it is still "poison". But in today's age people pick their own poisons. If you eat sh!tty fast food, smoke, drink alcohol, you have no high ground to say you are healthier than someone who uses steroids.

And as to the thread topic. No doubt it helps, the question is to what extent. I think if you start out super skinny like I did, than yes muscles will make a night and day difference. But it also depends on if you have your other sh!t together.

 

[cordoncordon]

Anyone who does that to their bodies is not wiser than anyone...they are self deluded and narcistic..period...

And lol at defending steroid use...a lot of professional athletes across the board use it but there is nothing good about injecting poisons into your body...

I have stayed out of this argument but this I really take offense to. And first let me clarify that I have played sports, lifted weights, worked out my entire life. But as far as steroids. Understand that they are not poison. They are not harmful. ANYTHING is bad if you use it too much. Hell drinking too much water can kill you. But as long as steroids are used in a safe and controlled manner, they are very very good for you. Now, I am not advocating that the typical guy go out and use steroids. Besides the cost, there is just no real reason to. But for the hard training or professional athlete? I am all for it and here is why.

I trained race horses for 20 years (still own a few) and one of the best things I could ever do for my horses was to keep them on a regular dose, (usually 10 cc a month of Winstrol V and Equipoise) of steroids. And whenever I would get a new horse, especially if they were run down? I would load them up, even the mares, with an assortment that got them back on the road to proper health. Steroids increased their vitality, their coat, their appetite, their energy level, just their overall health would improve tremendously. And I never once saw any adverse affects from them, and a few horses, like Islandecho (who won over 100 races for me) I had on steroids for 10-12 years. I remember two horses I got off a trainer, Swap Shop and Red Walter. Bother were run down, lifeless, skinny, racing terribly. I hit them with Winstrol and Equipoise every week for 2 months, and besides everything else I did to help them, they both won their first 5 races with me and within 2 months looked gorgeous and felt awesome. Like a race horse should. Steroids were created to HELP improve ones health. They were not created to get high or zoned out or for anything other than to increase an animals or persons fitness level. GOOD things.

Steroids have gotten such a bad rap over the years, mainly from the media who perpetuates the govt bias against them. People need to understand that professional athletes or animals like race horses cannot train and perform properly on things like steak and eggs, vit supplements, or hay and oats. They take a pounding every day that is 100 x greater than the stress that a normal person or animal endures. So it only makes sense that they need some extra help in their recovery and training. Of course, if you overdose on them, like anything whether drinking, eating, or even training, your body is going to suffer. But used in a safe, controlled manner....steroids are an excellent part of any fitness routine and it makes me sick to see the bad rap they have gotten.

I might also add that I have only done a few myself. I tried Winstrol V a few times when I was younger, and had no ill affects whatsoever. But I have never used them on any regular basis and at most have only used them 3-5 times in my life.

 

[my1ken]

Muscular? minus the steroids... my guess would be better genetics.

 

[typical]

No Zinc I'm not some roided up black guy, I'm 180cm tall weigh 85-90kgs and come from a mixture of Indian/Arab and Eastern European bloodline. And have been playing sports since I was 5 and fighting since I was 12. I am an ecto-mesomorph, so I stay lean all year round but find it slightly hard to gain weight, it's taken me 12 years of lifting on and off to get to this size without the use of drugs, I have however taken EPO and HGH both in pill form when I was in high-school to recover from a torn hamstring, and still do when I get injured, as it speeds the recovery up.

I don't disagree with anything you said about martial arts, and yes they can do extreme things but I also know for a fact that these same people will never ever actively engage in a fight as it's always taught to walk away instead of sticking around and fighting.

The thing you don't realize about fighting in a ring or cage is that it's not staged, and the other guy KNOWS what he is doing and most likely has 5-10 years of martial arts and boxing/kickboxing under the belt. Apart from a few "gentleman's" Rules its a kill or be killed blood sport. You are taught to go in and dismantle the other guy and finish him off its completely different to defending yourself from single or multiple armed attackers, in the ring you can't just shrug off a few people and make a dash for safety, in the ring you have to stand your ground and fight or get ripped apart. You have to find a chink in their technique and break through it.

It's completely different worlds. I walk around these days not looking at people but analyzing the way they walk how the carry themselves to pick up weakness in their bodies just in case I have to defend myself against them, I can't turn it off its something that I picked up from fighting in the ring and cage.

The horse stance is actually not a real fighting stance its more of a finishing/ ending stance used to shift your body weight around and used to train the legs, you can either do martial arts training or weights ............ OR do both. I found out as a young teenager that martial arts taught the control and discipline but the actual fight's taught me how to be versatile unpredictable volatile and downright dangerous and use the controlled disciplined actions from martial arts into fighting and beating guys.

BUT The side affects of having a decent body are that you get noticed more by EVERYONE, Men and Women. Men are afraid to look you in the eye, and Woman gawk at you like deer caught in headlights. Your sheer presence commands respect and admiration at the same time, everyone knows you either fight or play a heavy contact sport. It's a feeling that I can't explain you have to experience it to know what I mean.

Having said this You do get treated like a dumb brute, you can say and get away with some dirty things to women and be very brash and rough when handling a woman and she will get soaking wet. Guys will mock you behind your back yet cower when you look at them, they won't believe that you are educated and smarter then they are because you look like a guy that spends all day in the gym.

There are pros and cons BUT the pros outweigh the cons by far, When I was in my peak condition at 23 I could literally walk up to a hot girl and just say "hi my name is $%^&*(, I would like to take you home tonight/tomorrow/next week" And majority of the time I could pull a number/kiss/lay on the same day.

 

[zinc4]

I have stayed out of this argument but this I really take offense to. And first let me clarify that I have played sports, lifted weights, worked out my entire life. But as far as steroids. Understand that they are not poison. They are not harmful. ANYTHING is bad if you use it too much. Hell drinking too much water can kill you. But as long as steroids are used in a safe and controlled manner, they are very very good for you. Now, I am not advocating that the typical guy go out and use steroids. Besides the cost, there is just no real reason to. But for the hard training or professional athlete? I am all for it and here is why.

I trained race horses for 20 years (still own a few) and one of the best things I could ever do for my horses was to keep them on a regular dose, (usually 10 cc a month of Winstrol V and Equipoise) of steroids. And whenever I would get a new horse, especially if they were run down? I would load them up, even the mares, with an assortment that got them back on the road to proper health. Steroids increased their vitality, their coat, their appetite, their energy level, just their overall health would improve tremendously. And I never once saw any adverse affects from them, and a few horses, like Islandecho (who won over 100 races for me) I had on steroids for 10-12 years. I remember two horses I got off a trainer, Swap Shop and Red Walter. Bother were run down, lifeless, skinny, racing terribly. I hit them with Winstrol and Equipoise every week for 2 months, and besides everything else I did to help them, they both won their first 5 races with me and within 2 months looked gorgeous and felt awesome. Like a race horse should. Steroids were created to HELP improve ones health. They were not created to get high or zoned out or for anything other than to increase an animals or persons fitness level. GOOD things.

Steroids have gotten such a bad rap over the years, mainly from the media who perpetuates the govt bias against them. People need to understand that professional athletes or animals like race horses cannot train and perform properly on things like steak and eggs, vit supplements, or hay and oats. They take a pounding every day that is 100 x greater than the stress that a normal person or animal endures. So it only makes sense that they need some extra help in their recovery and training. Of course, if you overdose on them, like anything whether drinking, eating, or even training, your body is going to suffer. But used in a safe, controlled manner....steroids are an excellent part of any fitness routine and it makes me sick to see the bad rap they have gotten.

I might also add that I have only done a few myself. I tried Winstrol V a few times when I was younger, and had no ill affects whatsoever. But I have never used them on any regular basis and at most have only used them 3-5 times in my life.

Wrong.....the human body can take much more than you or anyone in the media gives it credit for and with less food and so called nutrients than what is believed as well...it can literally adjust to all kinds of stress over time...without artificial crap like steroids...if you want to take steroids then that is your business...but there are side affects and it is toxic in general so don't get on here trying to fool people that is is somehow good for you or required if you work out a lot.

And also, aren't you the little pathetic AFC that is always posting pics of his GF on here like she is your freakin trophy or something????? This is the last i will say to you, because i only debate with people that i actually have some respect for.

To the other guy, yeah i used to drink a lot of beer but have cut it out for health and training reasons....and no i don't smoke or anything like that...i am sure you can in fact use steroids in a relatively safe and controlled manner because i have known plenty of people who have used them, but let's not act like they are good for your body or even a good idea for that matter....plus what is wrong with going the natural route?