what is happening?

[Heretolearn]

Hey everyone,

Ok so this is getting a little annoying. I would like to say I laugh but this has been too much.

Seriously, the last bunch of girls I have asked out/been interested in HAVE ALL BEEN MARRIED OR HAD BOYFRIENDS.

Now, some say at the time - no problem. Others, I just get the number and organise to meet up. We meet up and lots of flirting then I find out that they are either married, engaged or have a bf.

Arrgghh.

I would estimate the last 10 girls I have been interested in. The ones without partners, I have not been interested in at all.

I understand this is good to still meet people and these new 'friends' have introduced me to others but I have not been interested in the others.

Any advice/tips/feedback?

I understand it is silly to ask beforehand but this is getting ridiculous. Also annoying that no girl that I have met is single, everyone has at least a 'placeholder' guy.

* girls have been of different ages and different locations

 

[drZaius09]

This is sadly becoming more and more typical. You are not alone in what you are experiencing-- I dated a girl over the summer who told me 2 months into our "relationship" that she was going back to her ex-bf, who had never completely left the picture in the first place. This is becoming so common simply because we have no effective recourse against it. The market for women is bullish, and it will continue to be so for the remainder of our lifetime. Therefore girls with no integrity can run buck-wild over their boyfriends, over their boys on the side, whoever. This all boils down to a lack of consequences for their actions.

Let's break this down logically--
Scenario: Girl has a boyfriend and she is cheating on him with someone else. Unfortunately she's not quite slick enough to keep it under wraps and one of them finds out. Now one of a few things can happen--
A) Boyfriend/other guy uses typical AFC logic to excuse the girl's behavior and reconcile his own sense of betrayal. Girl can now continue to enjoy the fruits of both relationships while remaining free to do as she pleases with anyone else. This will usually work whether only one of them finds out or if both find out.
CONSEQUENCES: NONE.
B) Boyfriend/other guy refuses to tolerate her indiscretions and bails on the relationship. But that still leaves one guy who doesn't have a clue. So girl puts all her eggs in the remaining basket (for the time being), and begins prowling for more guys to replace the one that bailed.
CONSEQUENCES: NONE.
C) Both guys find out and simultaneously drop the hammer, leaving the girl without any apparent sanctuary. It is important to note that this is the MOST IMPROBABLE of all the possibilities listed; in fact, it's damn near impossible. Yet, we are still talking about a girl here-- and as the market values her, she will have no trouble replacing both men in a timely enough fashion.
CONSEQUENCES: NONE.

There is nothing we can do to stop this pattern. It is a natural order inherently set between the sexes. You would be just as successful trying to stop a thunderstorm as you would trying to stop this kind of behavior. Thats the first and only thing we must recognize-- that our responses are useless, and we should learn to control our emotional reactions and direct them toward more productive areas of our lives.

 

[azanon]

I advise treating it as a s*** test. Respond, "so?" or "And your point is...?" Seriously, its their problem, not yours. It doesn't change the fact that you're propositing and that they could say yes to it. If you're turned down on one of these basis, IMO it was just an excuse; even if it was true.

In the case of the married ones though, well do whatever you can live with. Remember, ultimately though, its the responsiblity of the married person to stay true to their marriage.

Azanon

 

[WestCoaster]

Women have no problem "overlapping." This was told to me several years ago because I didn't understand it.

Don't misunderstand plate-spinning with overlapping. Plate spinning is dating a lot of different women without the intention of being serious with any unless one rises to the top, and perhaps some of the purpose of plate spinning is to see if anyone rises to the top, or to just get tons of dating practice.

Most women aren't wired like this. They are relationship-oriented. Yes, exceptions to the rule, but those are exceptions. What they do is overlap as in when they're with one guy and it may be on the outs, or they are away from him distance-wise, they will naturally date and/or sleep with another man. I've been at the receiving end of this b.s. too many times ... and since it was in my AFC days, I didn't have the emotional strength to combat it.

Women like to feel wanted and 90 percent of their inner self-worth comes from men. The other 10 comes from having a kid. Men's self-worth comes from career or accomplishments like athletics or getting degrees. At least real men are built like this.

So women overlap. Example: I went out with a gal about five times last year only to find out on date five that she'd been seeing a guy for seven years. She didn't like him, b-tched about him and so forth, but eventually stayed with him. What was my purpose then? I met her at an art museum, she loved the attention, enjoyed our dates, started feeling attractive again, and so forth ... something dorkwad wasn't giving her.

Example two: I dated a gal for a little while who told me up front that she was divorced; I later found out that she was separated and hubby was in prison for dealing drugs. Wisely I got out of it.

What was my purpose then? Hubby is away for awhile, I'm giving her attention, she wants to be with someone. Again, I was an AFC and wasn't very wise in how I handled either one of those situations.

I'm one or the other. Do I spin plates? Yep. But once I'm in a relationship, that's it. I find no need to play around on the side. If I feel the need to do that, I don't get in a relationship.

Most women aren't wired like this. They have no problem dating men on the side while they're married or in LTR's.

I still don't understand it, but now I'm wise to it, and that's what matters.

 

[Vulpine]

It's the end of the summer. Everyone is settling in with their new bf's/gf's for the winter. It's a natural seasonal thing, don't get all riled up about it.

 

[MightyMate]

Girls You jmeet were sluts.

 

[drZaius09]

It's the end of the summer. Everyone is settling in with their new bf's/gf's for the winter. It's a natural seasonal thing, don't get all riled up about it.

Thats an interesting way of putting it. I think there's a little more to it than that... but I certainly agree that this is a factor.

 

[resilient]

Or how about when a girl moves into a new city from out of state. She very quickly acquires a b/f to give her the dating night life treatment and introduced into the "hot spots" to meet other established men.

example:
I had a girl plate spin me, but refuse to get more serious. She was a law student that just moved out from Alabama to California: 23, virgin!, blond, blue eye, christian values, and into sailing and rowing. But flaked on every social/date idea I brought up - most likely had many suitors, and could sense neediness.

 

[Heretolearn]

thanks for the responses guys. The responses were a little disheartening though

I was hoping to get more an analysis of my actions also. As in, is it something I am doing? I mean seriously, this is like 10 in a row which is pretty frustrating

Some good tips have been:

a) look at the ring finger

- some women did not have their rings on or had them on the opposite hand

b) just ask at first meeting - but then I am told that is very submissive behaviour


- I guess the issue is twofold for me. One directly as I would like to hang out with some women I am attracted to or may be attracted to. Secondly and MORE IMPORTANTLY, the whole society values aspect.

I know, I know. I really respect everyone on this board for swimming against the stream as it is rather tough. I was at my brother's wedding without a partner at the weekend. It was like I was a leper. When are you getting married. GIving me the married man algebra - married in 20s, kids in 30s, meaning they are 20, when you are 50 so you can still hang out with them then you get grandkids about age 60-70 etc etc.

Instead, I met and chatted to the wedding photographer who was pretty and interesting. She gave me her number but then I found out she was married. She has some friends who have just moved to where I live at least so I may catch up with them to meet new people.

Everytime I find out a female has a partner, I say 'not interested in friends thanks' and throw out the number.

Bravo you may say. But this can be very lonely. Surely there is a better way?

 

[wayword]

example:
I had a girl plate spin me, but refuse to get more serious. She was a law student that just moved out from Alabama to California: 23, virgin!, blond, blue eye, christian values, and into sailing and rowing. But flaked on every social/date idea I brought up - most likely had many suitors, and could sense neediness.

Attractive 20-something coeds all have lots of options. I've even reached HP's with several lately...only to still get denied access because I was just one of many or they already had a primary plate.

Tough crowd! :cuss:

 

[joekerr31]

i've thought about this one myself as i've encountered it myself.

i think there are a number of variables at play here...

1) attached women exhude a false sense of confidence. They know they have someone to go home to and as a result flirt with reckless abadonment. This form of overt behavior is like steak to a hungry dog for most guys - because it insuates that with just a little effort you'll be banging her all night long.

In this situation it's actually the woman who is approaching the man, albeit through actions not words. the man may get to a point where he thinks he's suddenly interested in this woman, but he's gotten to that point via her behavior, as subtle as it may be.

2) There are a HELL of a lot of women out htere in relationships they are NOT happy in. i tell you, it's absurd how many women i know who are with guys they would dump if they could find a better deal. So basically the waters are FILLED with women who are attached but who are putting feelers out in hopes of a better deal. They tend only to stop doing this once they've had kids. Most guys are happy enough as long as they are getting laid. hence why men tend to get blindsided - to them they were getting laid and everythign was great, meanwhile their gf emotionally started to detach a while ago.

3) Even the biggest AFC won't give a girl he doesn't want to f*ck a second look. Whereas women are very different. A single woman will take any attention she can get. So if any Joe approaches her right she will give him a chance. If men chased after any old single woman they'd suddenly realize just how many of them there are out there - but instead there are droves of women that don't even register on our radar because they aren't f*ckable.

4) often times once IN a relationship women get their senses about them and suddenly start to realize whats important in a man. it's often the attached ones that recognize the "good" guys - ie. the ones who have their sh*t together. And they are drawn to flirting with them. However, the single (hot) women often are drawn to the bad boys, the challenge, the guy who wants nothing but to f*ck them. They feel more comfortable with that dynamic, because they know they won't get rejected (until after he's banged them anyway). When they are single the "good" guy is intimidating, because he's looking for character and depth - and hence is judging women with a keen eye. also, women know that flirting with a "bad boy" is dangerous if they are in a relationship, as the bad boy WILL escalate things and want to f*ck. Whereas when flirting with a "good guy" they know that it won't escalate unless they escalate it.

so in summary:
- guys ignore droves of single women
- attached women flirt much more than single women
- there way more attached women who are NOT happy in their relationships
than there are men.
- attached women go after good guys, single women tend to go for bad boys.


basically im a good guy. NOT an AFC mind you. But at my age I'm looking for quality over just a piece of *ss. I find that 80% of attached women flirt with me shamelessly. I take it for what it is - I'm the guy they wished they had enough common sense to settle down with. Could i bang them with a little work, sure, but that's not my game.

anyway, when you decide to take control and pick yourself out a woman and persue her you'll start to notice the difference between single and attached woman. they give up TOTALLY different vibes in my experience. the single woman is a tad nervous, slightly shy at times, almost waiting for you to lead the conversation and take control. An attached woman is often chatty, throws flirty signals out left right and center, and is HIGHLY complimentary to you. the single girl is too worried about what you think of her to throw endless compliments at you. the attached woman doesn't even thinka bout whether you are judging her, she simply enjoys the attention in the moment.

it's taken me a LONG time to realize that women are who are single and interested are actually shy-er and require more proactive effort to communicate with than attached women. attached women are a joke to chat up and flirt with, they make it very easy. single women are too nervous and unsure of themselves and hence are kind of akward in their conversation.

anyway, once you notice this difference you can start to have some REAL fun with the attached one. i've been through this situation many many times and it generally goes like this...

- attached woman flirts
- attraction builds
- personal details about your lives start to get shared (often at this point you find out that she has a bf or husband, a point of fact often concealed early on)
- really personal details start to get discussed and it becomes palpably obvious that there is a strong attraction between the two of you.
- woman starts then starts to send confusing signals. her behavior starts to change slgihtly. some days she pulls back, other days shes back to flirting shamelessly.
- suddenly you start hearing about all kinds of f*cked up parts of the womans life.
- enough time has gone by at this point that the man realizes he's wasting his time with this woman and goes off in search of a woman who is free to get f*cked.

haha.

after goign through this a few times, now i just enjoy watching them go through teh process of getting attracted to me, then falling for me, then feeling really guilty and torn about it all, then walking away from them.

anyway man, i don't know if this was of any help to you. i can't even guarantee that anything i've written is the actually truth of things - simply my observations from my own life.

J

 

[Heretolearn]

i've thought about this one myself as i've encountered it myself.

i think there are a number of variables at play here...

1) attached women exhude a false sense of confidence. They know they have someone to go home to and as a result flirt with reckless abadonment. This form of overt behavior is like steak to a hungry dog for most guys - because it insuates that with just a little effort you'll be banging her all night long.

In this situation it's actually the woman who is approaching the man, albeit through actions not words. the man may get to a point where he thinks he's suddenly interested in this woman, but he's gotten to that point via her behavior, as subtle as it may be.

2) There are a HELL of a lot of women out htere in relationships they are NOT happy in. i tell you, it's absurd how many women i know who are with guys they would dump if they could find a better deal. So basically the waters are FILLED with women who are attached but who are putting feelers out in hopes of a better deal. They tend only to stop doing this once they've had kids. Most guys are happy enough as long as they are getting laid. hence why men tend to get blindsided - to them they were getting laid and everythign was great, meanwhile their gf emotionally started to detach a while ago.

3) Even the biggest AFC won't give a girl he doesn't want to f*ck a second look. Whereas women are very different. A single woman will take any attention she can get. So if any Joe approaches her right she will give him a chance. If men chased after any old single woman they'd suddenly realize just how many of them there are out there - but instead there are droves of women that don't even register on our radar because they aren't f*ckable.

4) often times once IN a relationship women get their senses about them and suddenly start to realize whats important in a man. it's often the attached ones that recognize the "good" guys - ie. the ones who have their sh*t together. And they are drawn to flirting with them. However, the single (hot) women often are drawn to the bad boys, the challenge, the guy who wants nothing but to f*ck them. They feel more comfortable with that dynamic, because they know they won't get rejected (until after he's banged them anyway). When they are single the "good" guy is intimidating, because he's looking for character and depth - and hence is judging women with a keen eye. also, women know that flirting with a "bad boy" is dangerous if they are in a relationship, as the bad boy WILL escalate things and want to f*ck. Whereas when flirting with a "good guy" they know that it won't escalate unless they escalate it.

so in summary:
- guys ignore droves of single women
- attached women flirt much more than single women
- there way more attached women who are NOT happy in their relationships
than there are men.
- attached women go after good guys, single women tend to go for bad boys.


basically im a good guy. NOT an AFC mind you. But at my age I'm looking for quality over just a piece of *ss. I find that 80% of attached women flirt with me shamelessly. I take it for what it is - I'm the guy they wished they had enough common sense to settle down with. Could i bang them with a little work, sure, but that's not my game.

anyway, when you decide to take control and pick yourself out a woman and persue her you'll start to notice the difference between single and attached woman. they give up TOTALLY different vibes in my experience. the single woman is a tad nervous, slightly shy at times, almost waiting for you to lead the conversation and take control. An attached woman is often chatty, throws flirty signals out left right and center, and is HIGHLY complimentary to you. the single girl is too worried about what you think of her to throw endless compliments at you. the attached woman doesn't even thinka bout whether you are judging her, she simply enjoys the attention in the moment.

it's taken me a LONG time to realize that women are who are single and interested are actually shy-er and require more proactive effort to communicate with than attached women. attached women are a joke to chat up and flirt with, they make it very easy. single women are too nervous and unsure of themselves and hence are kind of akward in their conversation.

anyway, once you notice this difference you can start to have some REAL fun with the attached one. i've been through this situation many many times and it generally goes like this...

- attached woman flirts
- attraction builds
- personal details about your lives start to get shared (often at this point you find out that she has a bf or husband, a point of fact often concealed early on)
- really personal details start to get discussed and it becomes palpably obvious that there is a strong attraction between the two of you.
- woman starts then starts to send confusing signals. her behavior starts to change slgihtly. some days she pulls back, other days shes back to flirting shamelessly.
- suddenly you start hearing about all kinds of f*cked up parts of the womans life.
- enough time has gone by at this point that the man realizes he's wasting his time with this woman and goes off in search of a woman who is free to get f*cked.

haha.

after goign through this a few times, now i just enjoy watching them go through teh process of getting attracted to me, then falling for me, then feeling really guilty and torn about it all, then walking away from them.

anyway man, i don't know if this was of any help to you. i can't even guarantee that anything i've written is the actually truth of things - simply my observations from my own life.

J

Brilliant post!

 

[Bonhomme]

The guys have brought up a lot of good points. Attraction doesn't imply any intention to act on it. Also, like WestCoaster said, many if not most women who have any reasonable options at all already have their replacement picked out when they break up with somebody.

 

[KarmaSutra]

Women like to feel wanted and 90 percent of their inner self-worth comes from men. The other 10 comes from having a kid. Men's self-worth comes from career or accomplishments like athletics or getting degrees. At least real men are built like this.

This should be etched into every man's fvcking chest.

 

[Bonhomme]

I have to respectfully disagree. There's much more to self-worth than "accomplishments." If a man has the sort of life he wants and lives in a tent, and eats bugs and worms he catches, all the more power to him ... although having the sort of life you want is really one hell of an accomplishment. It just may not appear that way in the eyes of 99.9% of the other people.

 

[wayword]

- attached woman flirts
- attraction builds
- personal details about your lives start to get shared (often at this point you find out that she has a bf or husband, a point of fact often concealed early on)
- really personal details start to get discussed and it becomes palpably obvious that there is a strong attraction between the two of you.
*
- woman starts then starts to send confusing signals. her behavior starts to change slgihtly. some days she pulls back, other days shes back to flirting shamelessly.
- suddenly you start hearing about all kinds of f*cked up parts of the womans life.
- enough time has gone by at this point that the man realizes he's wasting his time with this woman and goes off in search of a woman who is free to get f*cked.

* This is your HP where she KNOWS she COULD have you. Which is ALL SHE REALLY WANTED to VALIDATE her LSE. Anything after this point is secondary... So, actually FOLLOWING THROUGH and going through the motions of sex/relationship then is unnecessary with added high risk. Which is why many women will draw the line and stop there.

Welcome to the wonderful, wide world of attention-wh0ring...!

 

[comote]

The reason this is happening is not the fault of the woman . . .

If you want to get past that then it should be very clear what your intentions are. My gf is a feminist, on our first date I gave her a smack on the a$$, she hated it, but she didn't question what my intentions were.

Don't be afraid to be very clear that your aim is to eventually have a sexual relationship with her. If you have to come right out and say it then do so. Women will only "quasi-date" you as long as they think they can get away with it by using the old "oh he is just a friend".

You may not get the particular girl, but most women appreciate the fact that you are honest about your intentions, and you won't waste your time being a woman's "quasi-date"

 

[Heretolearn]

The reason this is happening is not the fault of the woman . . .

If you want to get past that then it should be very clear what your intentions are. My gf is a feminist, on our first date I gave her a smack on the a$$, she hated it, but she didn't question what my intentions were.

Don't be afraid to be very clear that your aim is to eventually have a sexual relationship with her. If you have to come right out and say it then do so. Women will only "quasi-date" you as long as they think they can get away with it by using the old "oh he is just a friend".

You may not get the particular girl, but most women appreciate the fact that you are honest about your intentions, and you won't waste your time being a woman's "quasi-date"

well said. I try this generally this happens.

girl - I have a partner
- sorry, do not do friends and do not want to disrespect your partner or myself by hanging out with you. see you
girl - ok, see you


[couple of days or week]

girl - lets hang out.
me - are you still with your partner
girl - yes but......
me - no thanks



-Annoying. Plus, how I live is that I meet someone interesting, say lets catch up, get details and do so. It is not until I have hung out a couple of times before I know whether they are worth a relationship with (not talking marriage but hanging out properly)

However, it is not until meeting # 3 or 4 before I find out {BAM} partner. Then I have promised myself I will not cross that line.

 

[Crowes]

Yendor, I have not read all the replies, but here is the deal. When you reach a certain age the girls you encounter will surely be married or have a BF. All her friends do, so she will too, count on it.

It's life. I don't know what you are looking for at the moment, but if a BF stops you cold, you will likely be left with your dyck in your hand. Good luck.

 

[realsmoothie]

Man, you think it's bad now, try the scene fifty years ago, when everyone was married by their mid-20's.

Yikes.

The commment above about it being the time of year when women try and get a guy for the winter is pretty dead on. There's this subconscious comfort thing about having a guy in the winter, in that women feel that old hunter-gatherer need for "protection" in the cold. AND, holiday season is coming up too, with all sorts of staff parties and the such to which you are supposed to bring a significant other.

I'm seeing a definite lift in IOI's in the last few weeks from single girls. And there have been quite a few serious hook-ups in my group of friends. Me too, almost.