What I have learned from this board

[SexPDX]

Originally posted by Mr. Mystery
Boo-Hoo! Life sucks, its not fair!

vectorz,

Chill out man, I agree there is a substantial amount of bad advice given here on the forums, but the number you give is pretty exaggerated.

Also, understand that something may work for person A, while the same advice would get person B a black eye.

Read the bible, hit the field and form your own opinions on how the game works for you, then come back and complain.

Mr. Mystery

Actually, Mr. Mystery, I am willing to entertain the possibility that vectorz may have MANY good insights on the topic. The sad fact, however, is that we would not know because he seldom chooses to share them with us on this forum (or others as far as I have seen). He has come across as rather intelligent at certain times I can recall though and I would like to see more contributions from him instead of the criticism of others I have seen him offer without content to accompany it. vectorz's standards for quality of material on the forum MAY be good ones and they may be ones that would I agree with but it is unfortunate that any standards he DOES have are rendered moot by the fact that he chooses to disregard those standards when it comes to HIS posts.

-PDX

 

[Bungo Pony]

Re: Re: Re: Re: What I have learned from this board

Originally posted by SexPDX
But I definitely think you want to spend SOME time making the interaction on the phone more interesting than just setting up a meeting/date and hanging up. ALL you interactions should be interesting.

I completely agree with this statement . Establishing rapport on the phone is one of the major areas I had a big problem with. Personally, I hate the telephone. I'd prefer to ask the girl out in person. It makes conversation much easier when you make an observation about her or the surroundings, rather than just listening to her voice on the damn phone.

 

[vectorz]

Originally posted by SexPDX
vectorz's standards for quality of material on the forum MAY be good ones and they may be ones that would I agree with but it is unfortunate that any standards he DOES have are rendered moot by the fact that he chooses to disregard those standards when it comes to HIS posts.

The reason why I don't post any quality material is because I don't believe I'm a PUA, therefore, who am I to teach anyone? I would be extremely hypocritical to be complaining about bad advice yet dishing it out myself. I want to be able to just be quiet, read, read, and read GOOD advice until I get good enough where I have something to contribute. INSTEAD, I sit here and read and read and keep an open mind and then I wake up and realize that most of these people are dishing out pure baloney. And the ones that are for real, I can no longer distinguish. On top of that, you get the amazingly lavish, over-exaggerated, OR completely fabricated stories of success that just KILLS the game for us newbies.

We're trying to learn, therefore we have expectations of what success IS by reading of the other success stories on here. And when our successes are nowhere NEAR the capacity of these exaggerations, it causes frustration and depression. Well, maybe I'm speaking too broadly by saying 'us', I am really only speaking for myself. I was able to finally see the reality of these exaggerations|fabrications after meeting up w/ a few of these most reputable guys from both of these communities and after getting to know them, you can only smell the bullsh1t and lies. And as you can imagine, that takes away confidence I had in this community. I come back for the motivation, because that's the one value I have left for these forums. I no longer believe nor follow a single word of the 'advice' that is given on these forums.

 

[SexPDX]

vectorz, I get the impression you are one of these very literal thinkers. That is expressed in your language and in comments like this...

"If you think about it, EVERY SINGLE combination of what you could do RIGHT PLUS what you could do WRONG have been posted"

And I think THAT kind of literal thinking is your sticking point.

Originally posted by vectorz
On top of that, you get the amazingly lavish, over-exaggerated, OR completely fabricated stories of success that just KILLS the game for us newbies.

I understand what you are talking about. And I agree that there are MANY guys in the community who either lie or totally misrepresent how the girls responded to what they did. This is the reason I don't read many FR's anymore unless they are from guys who I know well and have a certain amount of confidence in their eye for interpersonal interaction.

Originally posted by vectorz
We're trying to learn, therefore we have expectations of what success IS by reading of the other success stories on here. And when our successes are nowhere NEAR the capacity of these exaggerations, it causes frustration and depression. Well, maybe I'm speaking too broadly by saying 'us', I am really only speaking for myself.

Don't compare yourself to people on the internet. Learn from them if you think you can but don't COMPARE YOURSELF to them. Because, you are RIGHT. If you were not THERE you know very little about it.

In any case, the more experienced you get the better intuition you will have for what you read on here is BS and what is not. We won't get everyone to stop lying or exaggerating. It doesn't HELP the problem for you and I to complain about it. All you and I can do is be honest about what has or has not worked for us.

Originally posted by vectorz
I was able to finally see the reality of these exaggerations|fabrications after meeting up w/ a few of these most reputable guys from both of these communities and after getting to know them, you can only smell the bullsh1t and lies. And as you can imagine, that takes away confidence I had in this community. I come back for the motivation, because that's the one value I have left for these forums. I no longer believe nor follow a single word of the 'advice' that is given on these forums.

I don't know who all you've met from ASF but I know TWO guys from this board (who no longer post here) who met you and I would be very interested to hear what "lies" you think THEY have been telling us. In fact ONE of those guys you met posts pictures of himself with exceptionally hot women in my private forum. Plenty of guys I trust have met him IRL and say he is trustworthy and indeed gets hot women and is what he tells us he is. If you are in a position to say I have been misled, I want to know more about this.

Thanks in advance for anything you think I should be aware of.

-PDX

 

[jakethasnake]

All excellent points. Now there's some food for thought...

 

[vectorz]

Originally posted by SexPDX
I don't know who all you've met from ASF but I know TWO guys from this board (who no longer post here) who met you and I would be very interested to hear what "lies" you think THEY have been telling us. In fact ONE of those guys you met posts pictures of himself with exceptionally hot women in my private forum. Plenty of guys I trust have met him IRL and say he is trustworthy and indeed gets hot women and is what he tells us he is. If you are in a position to say I have been misled, I want to know more about this.

Hmmm... seems you had a talk w/ Pap and Craig? Well, I wasn't only speaking of them. When I was at the 'seminar' I met David D., Rick H., Tokyo PUA, OBrian?, TD, and quite a few others. I remembered the first day we were there, and a group of us spotted 2 super HB9's and I don't remember which of the PUA's it was but got shot down (I think it was Craig but not 100% sure). And then during the nightly sarges, I didn't see anything special. It was like a #'s game. Lots of approaches, seldom # closes, and even seldom major IOI's.

And the BIG guys (Rick, David, Tokyo) didn't even let us hang out w/ them for sarging at all. And on top of that near the end I went to talk to Craig because he was doing the special guest speech and he blew me off really arrogantly like a jerk , "Wait till my book comes out and read that". That infuriated me and was the last straw for me to bail on the seminar. I didn't even have that great of an impression of him, actually I thought he was a huge dork, but I kept an open mind because I was still learning. However, after seeing the Elimidate, that pretty much convinced me there's no special skill there.

If you're saying that he indeed IS very successful, I must've seen him on his REALLY off days or maybe it's just a #'s game for him, which really doesn't teach me anything. But besides THIS bunch, I've met at least 4 or 5 other "PUA|DJ"s and I'm 100% certain they are ALL bogus also. I don't know what you want me to say but this is all factual first hand accounts. Now if I had actually SEEEn even ONE successful close I'd maybe even have a positive attitude about this. But among ALL these highly reputed, I have YET to see one example! Soooo.. that's why I'm giving my two cents for everyone to be weary of what they read here. Use it for motivation and enhancing your character. Try to ignore the fabricated stories of success, and even forget about the tactics and techniques. Most of them are all theory and have not been proven even by the creator themselves.

 

[DeepBlue]

Originally posted by vectorz
I sit here and read and read and keep an open mind and then I wake up and realize that most of these people are dishing out pure baloney. And the ones that are for real, I can no longer distinguish....

....I no longer believe nor follow a single word of the 'advice' that is given on these forums.

The problem is that when you are a newbie then you don't have enough experience to accurately judge whether the advice you read in a newsgroup is good or not.

That is why the best thing a newbie can do is to hang out with someone who is great with the babes, and you'll learn naturally by osmosis. You won't have to judge and critically evaluate whether he knows what he's doing, because it will be obvious that he does, and that gives you a basis for trusting that he is someone worth learning from.

But as you gain experience you will start to have some basis for relying on your own judgement to evaluate the advice you read on the net.

Even when you're reading posts written by anonymous strangers whom you've never met, it won't matter because you're no longer in darkness, looking for someone you can trust, whom you can blindly follow.

Instead, you will have reached the point where you can exercise your own judgment to differentiate between those words of advice that are good and those that are nonsense.

Advice that is good will ring true for you--not because you trust that the author knows something you don't, but because his words mesh with what you KNOW works--based on the experience you've gained so far.

DeepBlue

 

[SexPDX]

Originally posted by DeepBlue
The problem is that when you are a newbie then you don't have enough experience to accurately judge whether the advice you read in a newsgroup is good or not.

That is why the best thing a newbie can do is to hang out with someone who is great with the babes, and you'll learn naturally by osmosis. You won't have to judge and critically evaluate whether he knows what he's doing, because it will be obvious that he does, and that gives you a basis for trusting that he is someone worth learning from.

Thanks for chiming in with this, DeepBlue. You are right. You know that I had the experience of having a close friend who was highly skilled (LJ) while i was working on my game so I guess sometimes I take that for granted and forget that other people haven't necessarily had that experience.

-PDX

 

[SexPDX]

Originally posted by vectorz
Hmmm... seems you had a talk w/ Pap and Craig? Well, I wasn't only speaking of them. When I was at the 'seminar' I met David D., Rick H., Tokyo PUA, OBrian?, TD, and quite a few others.

Actually I was talking about the guys you met from THIS forum. I know two who you met. Are THEY misrepresting their skill? I have never seen Powertrip post on here saying he KNOWS that much about what he does, but I have seen pics and hear others say that he does it. I believe he has game, are YOU in a position to say I have been misled? I want to hear if you are.

Originally posted by vectorz
I remembered the first day we were there, and a group of us spotted 2 super HB9's and I don't remember which of the PUA's it was but got shot down (I think it was Craig but not 100% sure). And then during the nightly sarges, I didn't see anything special. It was like a #'s game. Lots of approaches, seldom # closes, and even seldom major IOI's.

Just so you know, sometimes a good interaction or good game doesn't LOOK like anything special.

However, I can't say that I am surprised at your desciption of what those sarging nights were like with those guys (none of whom I have met but some I have talked on the phone with and met people who have met them). The history has been that large group outtings of guys from the community in one place together at one time do not go well in terms of the sarging that gets done.

Personally, I attribute it to the the group mentality that takes place when you get a lot of ASF guys together at once. They almost can't help but become more focused on showing off for each other than they are on the quality of interactions with the women. This is why I for the most part confine myself to meeting one person or a few people at a time. If it gets too big, it's just a ****fest.

Originally posted by vectorz
And the BIG guys (Rick, David, Tokyo) didn't even let us hang out w/ them for sarging at all.

I would not be surprised if it had something to do with what I wrote above. Or it could be that David DeAngelo and Rick H have VIP access to clubs that they did not want to feel obligated to share with you guys just because you are from the community.

Originally posted by vectorz
And on top of that near the end I went to talk to Craig because he was doing the special guest speech and he blew me off really arrogantly like a jerk , "Wait till my book comes out and read that". That infuriated me and was the last straw for me to bail on the seminar. I didn't even have that great of an impression of him, actually I thought he was a huge dork, but I kept an open mind because I was still learning. However, after seeing the Elimidate, that pretty much convinced me there's no special skill there.

I see nothing from Craig's Elimidate performance to serve as a basis for judging that he lacks skill. The chick was a quasi-celeb doing what she was doing for promotional purposes. Craig knew this and he did what what situation required for his objective (which was to win), no more and no less, and he accomplished that. You have met Craig and I have not, however nothing that happened IN THAT TV SHOW demonstrated that he lacks skill.

Originally posted by vectorz
If you're saying that he indeed IS very successful, I must've seen him on his REALLY off days or maybe it's just a #'s game for him, which really doesn't teach me anything.

To be honest, I don't know Craig IRL so I can't say but he has posted good stuff on the forums.

Originally posted by vectorz
But besides THIS bunch, I've met at least 4 or 5 other "PUA|DJ"s and I'm 100% certain they are ALL bogus also. I don't know what you want me to say but this is all factual first hand accounts. Now if I had actually SEEEn even ONE successful close I'd maybe even have a positive attitude about this. But among ALL these highly reputed, I have YET to see one example!

Do you have friends who you know are good with women? Take one of those guys out on the street and say "that girl, RIGHT NOW....CLOSE HER!", and even with someone YOU KNOW has skill you are likely to be disappointed in that kind of situation. Maybe part of the problems is that whoever you meet you push them into this "let's see what you got" frome of mind and that's not good for sarging. Real world PUA's are not performance monkeys.

There are some exceptions. Juggler is a performer. His chosen career involves developing rapport with strangers. He has been trained heavily and has a lot of professional experience in many types of performing where he interacts with the audience so someone like him is able to deliver the goods when called upon (as in a workshop he runs for example). Ditto for Mystery. He has been a performing illusionist for a long time and worked on his game by using those skills to help him get the attention of groups when he went out sarging. He did that for years. He is another example of a person who can reasonably be expected to deliver the goods in the context of a performance or challenge sitaution where there is some pressure. You just need to realize that you are expecting a lot from people to be able to produce results at will and for you to see.

In spite of all this, I must admit that you have seen A LOT guys in action and NO CLOSES!

-PDX

 

[vectorz]

Originally posted by SexPDX
Actually I was talking about the guys you met from THIS forum. I know two who you met. Are THEY misrepresting their skill? I have never seen Powertrip post on here saying he KNOWS that much about what he does, but I have seen pics and hear others say that he does it. I believe he has game, are YOU in a position to say I have been misled? I want to hear if you are.

Holy cow, I didn't even know that Powertrip posts on here! I met him through a friend and we IM each other once in awhile. There is absolutely NO DOUBT that Powertrip has game. But for obvious reasons, if you've seen his pic. The guy is like 6'5", looks like a Tommy Hilfiger model. The other guy you're probably referring to is Kittydavid (I actually met him through asf), whom I met Powertrip from. KittyDavid also has major game, but for also obvious reasons. He looks exactly like Enrique Iglesias. Now you're talking about two guys that have chicks throw themselves at these guys and they've developed their game to work around this, so it wouldn't work for everyone that isn't super-attractive as they are.

I'm attractive, but not to the point where women are throwing themselves at me so this same game definitely wouldn't apply to me. I've never seen Kittydavid nor Powertrip post so I completely forgot that they were part of this community. I apologize for that - Sorry Powertrip!

Do you have friends who you know are good with women? Take one of those guys out on the street and say "that girl, RIGHT NOW....CLOSE HER!", and even with someone YOU KNOW has skill you are likely to be disappointed in that kind of situation.

This is true, although I've never tried it. I'm not talking about these unreasonable circumstances. I'm talking more of circumstances where we go out on sarge outings without a single phone close

 

[SoSuave.com]

Moving this to The Archive.

 

[DjDreamer]

Originally posted by Mr. Mystery
Also, understand that something may work for person A, while the same advice would get person B a black eye.

Read the bible, hit the field and form your own opinions on how the game works for you, then come back and complain.

Exactly!

It's helpful to look at being suave as "self improvement" and not "one size fits all"...