What do you talk about when opening?

Magnatolia

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Hey all,

I'll set the scene. you're at a bus/train station and you open a girl. First, what do you open with that gets the best response? If there's something unique in the environment I'll use that, otherwise just say hello.

Then, what do you talk about? I suck when it comes to coming up with topics if the person is a stranger. If it's someone I know, or I know something about them, no problem. If I know at least one of her interests and I actually know something about it, I can go with that.

But I'm talking about someone who all you know is what you can see, and maybe the way they respond to your initial opener.

Sure, I could have a mental list of questions and just fire them at her and hope that one sparks her interest, but I know that ain't gonna work.

And don't flick me any responses along the lines of 'don't think about it' or 'go with the flow'. No offence, but that's a good approach if you already have the skills and are simply panicking. I'm not interested in routines, lines, or techniques. Mainly interested in being an interesting person who has the greatest chance of having a great conversation with the girl.

So, to all the guys out there that can create awesome, or even just good conversations with a random girl, what can you teach me?

Looking forward to your responses. This is my year of change!
 

Kris Hansen

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This is a post I did for another forum, and I think it'll help you out a ton.


The Transition

In pick-up the most common area of difficulty that I read about is transitioning. In the early stages of our pick-up careers, we learn how to open a set with ease and grace, but after that point, we have no idea what we should be doing. How should one transition from talking about magic spells to establishing a higher value with the set?

There are a couple of different things we need to talk about before getting into the specifics: stacking, rethreading, and locking in.
Stacking is the term we use for running multiple routines at one time. You can, in theory, run fifty different routines simultaneously, but you would quickly forget where you were in each. Normally when we’re stacking, we only run two or three routines at once.

Rethreading refers to replacing a routine with another, different routine. Most of the time, this is how opening works; you spit an opener, then you spit another one, then you change the subject to a game, then you tell a DHV story. Each instance of “then” in the previous sentence indicates a rethread.

Locking in is one of the most powerful tools of pick-up. It is how you become a part of the set, as opposed to an outside influence. When you lock in, you situate yourself so that you have become the center of attention. Rather than stand outside of the set, you are leaning against the bar with the set surrounding you.

These three things, working together, create your transition toolbox. When you open a set, be ready to stack your openers, rethread them when they die, while maneuvering a lock-in. Sound difficult? Well, sometimes it is. In the interest of small-chunking, let’s work on each of these skills as an individual, and then see how they’ll work as a whole.

Stacking:
Your openers should all be rooted. If they are not rooted, find some better openers. For the moment, let’s use some pre-made openers: Magic Spells, Guys Wearing Make-up and the Do I Look Gay to You Openers.

You begin the set with the Magic Spells opener.

You: Hey guys, do you believe magic spells work?
Them: Yes/no/maybe.
You: The reason I’m asking is, my brother, gayest boy in the parade, he was working at this construction site. And every day, these girls would walk past and check him out, and that’s no big deal. But this one girl tells him “I put a spell on you.”

At this point, you should have the sets attention. Here, we start in on the second opener.

You: By the way, is it cool for a dude to wear make-up? I’ve got this friend who thinks that wearing make-up helps him pick-up chicks. My brother thinks it makes him look gay. And he should know, right?
Them: Yes/no/whatever
You: Well what should I tell him? I mean, I don’t want him to get his ass kicked, but at the same time I don’t want to squash his individuality…
Them: Whatever

Here you can take one of two paths. You can segue into the third opener, as so:

You: You know what? You guys seem cool, so I feel comfortable asking you this: do I seem gay to you?
Them: Yes/no/whatever.
You: Because this guy was totally hitting on me on the other side of the bar.

Or you can go back to your first opener, as so:

You: So anyway, this chick is all like “I put a spell on you,” and my brother freaked right out. He went to bed that night, couldn’t stop thinking about her. Woke up the next day, couldn’t stop thinking about her.

The trick to stacking well is that you have to keep doing it. You have to reference old conversation threads while starting new ones. When a conversation thread dies, you either replace it (re-threading) or you converge to a single thread of conversation for a while, before introducing another stack.

Rethreading:

Rethreading is a lot like stacking in a lot of ways. The key difference between the two is your intent to return to previous topics of conversation. When you stack routines, you are putting one routine on top of another, referencing both through the scope of the conversation. Rethreading occurs when one thread of conversation dies, and another begins. It is preferable that you killed said topic of conversation, rather than let it run itself into the ground; it’s much more comfortable for all parties involved in the conversation.

A typical rethread is accomplished through segues. A segue is when you change the topic to a related topic, or change the topic through relating something unrelated to the topic (typically through emotionally contextual points of relation). As an example:

Her: I love scuba diving. It’s so much fun and so scary at the same time.
You: I feel exactly the same way about skiing. My feet are useless unless they’re strapped to boards. Hey. Can you dance? You should teach me how to dance…

The most common segues:
• Hey, speaking of X, what do you think about Y?
• Oh my god! <Nearly anything can come after this…>
• I feel exactly the same way about X.
• By the way, what do you think about Y?

Locking In:

I cannot stress the importance of locking in enough. When you are locked into a set, you stop being the creepy guy that’s hitting on the girls and start being That Guy We Met at the Club.

The difficult part about writing an essay like this is that I only have so much space. Locking in should be an essay all by itself. The basics are this: you need to be in the center of the group. If that means you need to pick one of the girls up and move her so that you can steal her seat, do just that. Then make a funny joke about how you just stole her seat.

Locking in allows you to move from stacking and rethreading into actual conversational threads. You can talk about things that have nothing to do with their opinions. You can begin to move into relate-reward cycles, teasing cycles, fun games and eventually isolation. All of this is way beyond your level if you’re still looking to transition properly, but if you begin to set it up now, you’ll have a strong base from which to build the rest of your repertoire.

How it All Works:

Instead of writing up an elaborate script that will never actually work in the field (none of those cute little scripts ever really go the way they’re supposed to; not even the best laid plans survive contact with the enemy), I will instead provide you a short map. Change the order of the steps however best suits your particular situation at the time.

Step One: Approach and Open
Step Two: Get the group’s full attention.
Step Three: Change the subject.
Step Four: Lock in.
Step Five: Return to original subject, finish current subject, or move on to third subject.
Step Six: First subject dies; replace it.
Continue.

The Biggest Secret:

The easiest way to transition is to not transition at all. Juggler suggests moving from topic to topic with no warning. Whenever one topic of conversation seems to be dying out, replace it immediately, without warning or preamble. “As soon as you know the topic is going to stall out ,” he says, “… just pick it up and move it to another topic which is fresh and hopefully, a lot different from the last.”

Personally, I switch. I’ll go from using planned transitions to cold subject changes as the mood suits me. Mostly, it is to keep the conversation interesting and dynamic; I even do this when I’m not involved in a pick-up attempt. Transitioning has become an invaluable tool for me in every aspect of my life. When you master it, you will notice you’ve always done it, you just never realized what it was.
 

Magnatolia

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Thanks, but that's completely what I'm not interested in. The first one, magic, I can't stand. The second one, asking if you seem gay, this would only work if you were 100% confident otherwise you come across as having low self-esteem etc.

I guess for me, I want to say something that I'm actually interested in, rather than something to get a result from a chick. But I totally agree with you on segues. I do that all the time.

To be honest, I don't care about opening. I prefer to simply say 'hey, how's it going?' or just make a comment about something in the vicinity, whether its a weird/crazy person, bad situation, etc and gauge their interest from the response. Like one girl once I made a comment about how crowded the bus was and that got her interest so we ended up chatting for about half an hour for the rest of the trip.

My problem is 'finding topics/things to talk about'. I don't want to interrogate like 'what movies/music/etc do you like?' etc.
 

Kris Hansen

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I'm not saying that this script exactly is what you need to follow. Those are just examples. You'll want to use your own material and/or more natural stuff. It's more the concept of how the conversation should flow. You need to move from one topic to another with some level of fluidity, and having multiple things to talk about will improve that flow. I wouldn't suggest using any of the openers in the above post; they're cold product.

If I were you, I'd sit down and write out a few stories you have (personal stories, if you're looking for something self-relevant), and figure out how to make those stories more interesting. I tell the same story about my Crazy Uncle Danny all the time, and it's told with the same core every time. When you can make the boring interesting to listen to, you can talk about nearly anything that interests you, and she'll listen, and respond.

Open-ended statements are a much better solution to your problem than any sort of question, but if you're going to ask questions, make sure they're open-ended too. All of your statements and questions should contain an emotional hook with which the young lady can relate. People tend not to relate on _things_ as much as they do the emotional contextuality in which those _things_ are placed. I don't have the same feelings about scuba diving that you do. But you may have the same feeling about skiing that I get out of scuba-diving, so that is where the emotional context of your statements and questions should rest. I have another post kicking around somewhere that talks about open-ended statements and questions. I'll post it tomorrow.
 

ready123

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this link might help: http://www.theapproach.com/art_naturalgame2.php

read the part about spontaneity over structure. it's kind of vague but it might point you in the right direction.

spontaneous conversation like everything else, is a skill. getting to that level where you can "free-flow" through a conversation without any awkward moments requires practice
 

Snow Plowman

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Magnatolia said:
And don't flick me any responses along the lines of 'don't think about it' or 'go with the flow'. No offence, but that's a good approach if you already have the skills and are simply panicking. I'm not interested in routines, lines, or techniques. Mainly interested in being an interesting person who has the greatest chance of having a great conversation with the girl.
:confused:

I don't get it at all...you don't want me say go with the flow (I was originally going to say that) and your not interested in routines, lines, or techniques...well only thing I can say to look for is theory on vibing lol.

I open with anything and say anything because my verbal stuff doesn't matter, so longs I keep talking. I personally don't think about what to say because if your in "The NOW" things will tend to come up and I just say them.

So I might say on a bus "An where does this chariot take you today?" and I'd go from there. I know the foundation of almost every technique so I Improv everything right there, so maybe I'd tease her for being a spy or a hitman sent here to kidnap me, take me home, strip me and pour chocolate over me.

To me everything off the opener is just vibing all that's in my head...
- What frames do I want to set?
- Calibration: Is she engaged? Is she locked up? Is she comfortable? and anything I see in the social interaction which I will calibrate.
- Road Map: I have an idea of the elements of a structure and calibrate to what I need. I don't actually follow a structure I just go with what I feel is best for this set.

nonetheless, what you say is the least important thing, what really matters is your sub-communication. Are you sub-communicating the right things to the chick?

For starters so longs you have good EC, Voice, and body language you should go far. With that said, even if you don't like routines atleast learn the techniques because it amazes me how many people pass up implementing techniques into there personality because it would make them a better person. Most of these techniques is basically taking what works for naturals and putting all in a box...so I guess you come out SUPER NATURAL in a nerd sense lol.
 

EFFORT

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Magnatolia said:
Mainly interested in being an interesting person

Become an interesting person then.
 

Dongfu

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EFFORT said:
Become an interesting person then.
Exactly what I was about to say. If you lead a dynamic interesting life, you will never have a problem getting a womans interest and having interesting things to say. You may be working at this backwards.
 

KarmaSutra

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Instead of throwing you a response to your PM, I'll give you my two cents here for you and other brothers to reference over and over.

First. Canned lines and subliminal tactics are a waste of space between your ears. "Ooh throw her some cool NLP and she'll be spread eagle and completely under your control under three seconds!" (NLP has it's usefullness but not during casual conversation).

This is bullsh!t. Utter and complete bullsh!t. If you want to have meaningful, explorative conversation with someone you have to find common ground to communicate. Find something noticable between the two (or more) of you which you can compliment or make reference to.

But. It must have relevance to what you're conversing. If you notice a woman with a Dooney and Bourke bag, compliment her on her good taste as this is the type of bag you would buy for your Mother/Grandmother/Sister. I'm not condoning lying at all but you can stretch a thought for what you need.

The most important factor when you're talking to someone, anyone, is that you WANT to talk to them. Your body language will absolutely give you up if you don't have the mental constitution to string words into sentences and sentences into paragraphs.

Your words must also have a purpose. As a writer, whenever I'm putting words into my characters' mouths they have a purpose. They want to do something, go somewhere, gossip about someone, notice something screwy, etc . . .

It's thought in motion.

A lesson I learned early in life is how arrogant I am to think that I know what someone else thinks. I used to have a similar belief in that I would think: "Oh, this woman doesn't want to talk to me because I'm too damned boring and she must sure as sh!t have something more important to do than talk to me."

You see how arrogant I was for believing I KNEW what someone else thought?
It's ludicrous and childish. So I changed my mental frame 180 degrees.

I also found I have passions. Passions for life, love and the liberty to think for myself. These passions are what I use as a foundation for conversations.

Diversity is what I turn to for inspiration. Music, Film, Books, Art, Literature. The perpetuation of masculinity and mens rights. Family, History, etc . . .

You have so much to talk about you don't even know it. Other people, WOMEN, do too.

Also, LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION. If you want to meet historically knowledgable women you won't begin your search at Super Target. You'll go to a bookstore or library or museum. Like begets like.

Hope this helps to shed some knowledge on the subject and that it motivates you to get out there and TALK!
 

Magnatolia

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Thanks for the replies. I think my main problem is that eventually I run out of topics. I used to consider things like movies and music tastes as taboo. Guess because they're topics that can be hard to keep going with.

Plus I've always waited for a woman to catch my eye, and generally if she smiles I'll smile back and then say something. But lately I've just been saying something out of the blue and she turns to look at me. Actually worked really well.

For me it also depends on how forthcoming the other person is. If they don't really give much away eventually the conversation dies. But the other day I had a convo on the bus with a girl for about 40 minutes. She smiled and laughed at literally everything I said, she even suggested I move closer so I was out of peoples way, plus she told someone on the phone that she loved them but when she got off she explained that it was her sister (no need to let me know). I got her number but I'm 99% sure it wasn't hers. Sent her a message that arvo but didn't get a response back. Still super happy we had a great chat.

I guess I just wanted clarification from people on standard topics they use when conversation/topics start to die. That's my problem, when the conversation starts to die down, I don't have enough topics in my head to start chatting.

But when the conversation is going okay I don't really have any fear, like I'm not wondering what she thinks of me or whatever, unless something in her body language, tone of voice, etc stands out.
 

reset

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Can you type posts that are longer than one sentence?
Longer than one sentence?
 
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