What are the consequences of a country that keeps printing out money?

Gus

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diplomatic_lies said:
Are you a teenager by any chance?

If everyone could print their own money:

1) Nobody would work, causing production to collapse.

2) Because everyone has so much money to spend, but not enough goods are available to buy, prices would skyrocket. Bread would cost $1 billion per loaf.

You see?
I think if dollars were de-monopolized, a much stronger and robust currency would quickly take its place...historically it's been gold, but it might be oil too. Non-backed cash is a very crappy commodity to have as a money, but if it's monopolized then its value can be controlled.
 

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Re:

In the grand scheme of international currencies, the reason(s) to hold a US $ is/are:

1) It presents good investment opportunities.
2) The economy is good, thereby increasing its value relative to other currencies.
3) You gain a high rate of interest on investing in the US.

Think of it like holding a stock...

Is the management (government) well run and stable?
Can they dilute the stock (currency) by printing or offering more?
Are they growing or declining, thereby altering demand?
Can I get a better rate of return elsewhere?
How does it compare to other stocks (currencies)?
What's their financial position like?

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The US relative to itself over history isn't in a great position, by future other countries rival its potential and current status. The Euro is stronger because of safety valves, such as the national pension that has placed a stop gap on increasing the annual benefits relative to inflation. When you retire, you get a fixed sum for life. In the US, you get inflation, or CPI increases, which constantly increases costs. If the costs were fixed, our liabilities on those future obligations would remain much lower. Even in the West (China, Japan), countries not hitting their potential, years of 1 or 2 children households, no women, will lead to a much older population, and a huge drain on HEALTHcare and PENSION assets. Either people will work longer, or forever, or the working population will decline, which for the younger generation this is a plus.

And yes, per capita income isn't higher, there are many countries ahead of the US, but when you look the US over, there's greater opportunity, sort of. It's a rather confusing misnomer to say that.

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You're punished for any supposed illegality BECAUSE you don't know the law. When you don't know the law, which most cops, lawyers, judges, and companies hope happens, you're an easy target. If you do know the law, you're a problem, you know your rights, so it's HARDER for the sheeple to comply, if people know the laws. If more people understood the CONSTITUTION and the laws surrounding taxes and their states, they'd be in a better position to defend themselves and to create the law they desire where they live.

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The reason you can't print your own money is because currency, ANY kinds, whether it's gold, silver, coins, dollars, EUROS, is that anything outside of bartering ONLY HAS VALUE BASED ON THE FAITH OF IT BEING ACCEPTED IN RETURN FOR SOMETHING ELSE OF VALUE. Otherwise, we'd go back to exchanging a Car for a (1) Virgin Daughter-HB9. Or a house, for say 10 cattle. Whatever. Point is, Gold had value because people wanted it. If everybody had a gold mine in their backyard, then it would have little value since EVERYBODY would have one. When you're in the desert and out of water, you'll give whatever you have to...a weapon, your allegiance, some food, your wife or gf. Point is, currency only has value beyond a barter system because it's accepted IN LIEU of the actual good. It streamlines acceptance. Now we're down to plastic, almost.

If the dollar appears to be junk, or those people with millions or billions worth of dollars find that just HOLDING dollars in banks causes them to lose worth because the GOV will print as they see fit, people will dump dollars in lieu of Gold, Euros, Silver,Stocks or RE, and other investments or asset holdings. Gold has gone up so much because it's the fall back security or store of value. People know, that if all this were wiped out, AT LEAST you could get what you need for gold. Until people say, well "i can't eat gold, gimme food", you're ok.

In Land of the Dead, a world with walking zombies, the best commodities were pharmaceuticals, luxury items like cigars and whiskey, food stuffs, not money, because you couldn't really use it. Even the machine Dead Reckoning had tremendous value, because you could move from place to place without being attacked in a war cannon of a machine.

People have always tried to replicate or fake currencies, throughout time, and its caused a rise and fall in confidence. in the end, they went to the paper route, simplifying things, but also placing the ability to strip wealth from the lowest of the countries citizens. Inflation doesn't hurt the top tier wealth gathers, as they're astute enough to invest everywhere.

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On RedPill...I agree. The situation can seem bigger than you or I, so you get the feeling like..."what the fark can I do?"

Well...I figure the best things I can do are...

(1) Be Happy where I am Now.
(2) Improve daily, practice practice practice
(3) Read, study, know the laws of the land i live in, in and out.
(4) Awaken people, regardless of what the reaction is, pain always hurts the ego because its new, and the ego hates new.
(5) Create financial independence for myself, even if that means 40k a year without working
(6) Give back, in some small ways, without the expectation of return.
(7) Always educate, and find new ways to be cultured.
(8) Develop self sufficiency.
(9) Stay principled and temperent.

I can go on and on, but as noted we either trap ourselves in our own cage or free ourselves from prison, even if it's behind a wall or mentally. The only way you're truly a slave is when you give in. Examples from Books like Atlas Shrugged and Left Behind provide the Religious and Objective viewpoints on how a world gone awry people can still be free by remaining principled and stalwart against the forces of other's people's demands.

It doesn't pay to get caught up, it just pays to DO. Action breeds energy and life through it. It seems easier to fall off the bandwagon, but it's not a good idea. Who, what, how, why, does all the things, aren't going to be known. It's just the surface. Really. Those who THINK they know, don't know fully. You couldn't unless you did or infiltrated it, but it doesn't mean something fishy isn't up either.

It really is a question of are..."Are you better of now you know than you were before when you didn't know?" I would say yes. I'd rather know that we were living in a cave and free myself, than play dumb, fake interest. The same can be said of guys here...

Are you better off knowing a little bit about the dating world and mating rituals, or would rather be a nice guy pawn? Some people go too far, and systematize the whole interaction, labeling guys based on their actions, and overdoing it, like the whole world is a PUA video game. That's too far IMO, it kills the flavor and spices of life by dousing it with a bunch of sugar just for sex appeal. However, KNOWING is better than NOT knowing, and information can be empowering.

But the question must be answered by you and then carried out.




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Permission

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But if inflation effects everyone, then doesn't that make everyone in a level playing field basically? It's all relative.
 

A-Unit

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No, and I use the Real Estate Industry as an example.

Currently, homes priced for the middle class in respective parts of the country have softened. In the Northeast, homes are about $300,000 on the average. In the South and Midwest, say under $200,000. And on the West Coast, $400-500,000? (Let those who live there chime in with their more accurate prices).

That said, prices under $750-$1,000,000 have softened, to where it's slowed down. However, people OVER that amount don't care as much about price as a new family starting out. If you have $1,000,000 or more to buy a home, then you're not going to find TONS of homes like that. Moreover, if you can afford such a sized home, inflation has no REAL impact on you. One could argue people who are wealthy are that way because of their negotiating skills and MILLIONAIRE NEXT DOOR qualities, but that isn't reality when you're consider conspicuous consumers who want the most lavish items and aren't afraid to dump it on luxury vehicles and homes. If the country's wealth were to go up dramatically where 80% of the public could buy a $1,000,000 or more plus home, then inflation would kick those homes in the groin too, and wealthier purchasers would think twice about it.


The next analogy, a rising tide floats all boats. Buffet said the same, that when a market is going through a bull market, ALL funds and investors look good. It's the investors who can weather the bear market that are REALLY qualified and accomplished. The same applies here. The market that is really effected are the consumers making up about 80-90% of the US for whom even SLIGHT economic changes dramatically effect their position. I would argue that it's their fault for not bettering themselves...however, this isn't the case.

American education is structured, conveyed, taught, offered, and available for specific purposes, one engineered centuries ago, and improved along the way. Public is public is public. They're all the same, with minor discrepancies. Some places its horrible and deplorable. Other locations its great. However, that's the problem, we make up the public, and a child in CA doesn't get the same education as a student in MA does, so what's the point? The system is the same...large schools, large classes, degreed teachers, basic classes and requirements, the MCAS etc. But the quality differs, and yet billions in tax dollars go there.

True private, elite prep schools teach an entirely different curriculum than public schools. Top tier schools provide not only a different curriculum, but a different basis for the education, namely one to provide leadership, bonding, experiences that prepare young elites for their role as leaders and owners, as well as segregating the society by have's and have not's. This segregation of classes was begun long ago, in the days of Rockefellar and Carnegie, that was meant to divide the classes because of all the immigration and the Darwinian belief that the strong rule the weak and survival of the fittest. Justification of these beliefs, like a new religion, came by way of government and society, (2) tools that could actually wean down the masses. Immigrants and poor/middle class people were seen as a threat that would diminish the gene pool, seen as "better than our's", so that to separate such classes, society would be wielded like the sword of damocles, carving out the ideal mold to preserve society for the betterment of all.

All in all, I believe people "feel" the awkwardness within themselves of how things exist, and know something is up, but can't spell what it is, and don't want to say what it is for fear of being labeled as one of those "kooky" conspiracy theorists, when in fact, this is just history being played out. And people's complacency is what precisely enabled them to be "caught" in a prison of their own making. So perhaps Darwin was right in that regard, if people don't care.



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diplomatic_lies

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Speaking of education, isn't it funny how Asian countries (China, Korea, Singapore, etc) have even stricter and more "robotic" classes than Western schools...yet Asian students turn out hard-working, and graduate to become successful adults (think of the number of Chinese immigrants who can make a fortune in the USA, without even knowing English).

And yet in the US, with all their fancy "individual-tailored programs" and "creative classes"...most American graduates would get massacred in Asia's cutthroat business world.

Maybe the problem isn't the system, its the students.
 

Peace and Quiet

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Just read my free ebook 22 Rules for Massive Success With Women and do the opposite of what I recommend.

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And you will be able to relax and to live your life in peace and quiet.

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Re:

You raise a good point. However, it IS the system in the US. And here's why.

It's inconsistent, classes are dropped and added at a whim, students are forced to go, so why not offer the best? Students are not tested like they used to be, reading such classics at 8 or younger like Moby **** and the Bible. Days are longer, but they don't get anything of value in those 180 days. Education throughout the country is not the same even, though it's mandatorily forced.

It seems from my observation, most guys here could have succeeded (if they hadn't already) from advanced classes, and I mean beyond AP. I took AP calc and english, and didn't find them tough, but the nature of "waiting" for other's to catch up is counter to education and learning ANYWAYS. Think about it...

If you wanted to learn Real Estate investing...and were passionate about starting, come hell or high water...would you...

A) Enlist in classes at a local college that would last 10 weeks.
B) Self study, with possibly a mentor, putting in all the hours you want and can.

A is nice, but it's like MORE expensive, AND, you go at the pace of other's who don't necessarily WANT to do it. That's the point. Kids are NATURALLY curious and want to learn, but not every kid wants to learn the same thing, OR needs to. The value in learning is so that we might CARVE OUR OWN FUTURES, and by starting young, you can gain a foothold in WHO YOU ARE and WHAT YOU WANT TO BECOME...you develop independent thinking and leadership skills, since you rely on your own mind. It isn't prudent to think we can do it on our own at 5 years old, however, by taking such things out of the hands of parents and the communities, and socializing them to the LOWEST COMMON DENOMINATOR (another term for Bush's NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND LAW), you make the entire age bracket the same BUNCH. A mass society of kids, from formative years, THINKING the same things, BELIEVING mostly the same things, PLAYING the same things, TALKING nearly the same things, WITH the same daily agenda; there's little diversion from the SAMENESS. Unless of course you have funds to go to a Top prep school.

ALOT can be accomplished in a year. It certainly doesn't take ONE YEAR, to learn Trig, Geometry, Calculus, English, or ANYTHING else. Ok, maybe for some people it takes longer, HOWEVER, we all know from guys who do their own work, reading, or keep up on ANYTHING of passion, that you get FARTHER on your own than anywhere else. Couple that with PLACEMENT testing and standardized tests, and you can see where the same blob of America comes from...Fit the kids into nice, tight roles, and don't step out of line.

China is more advanced in their educational system than us, but it acheives the same results. The fact that their military training TAUGHT them to become Kamakazi's should be fact enough. Or that the level of control there has prevented a true growth in their economy because of central leadership and control. Only now are those barriers coming down.

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Those fancy programs are a SMOKE screen covering up the REAL treachery of schooling. As stated before...how many kids, with aspirations in music, arts, crafts, or carpentry get no such exposure until much later in life, when endless years were wasted on wasteful classes? And if education is great or at least good, why not many classes on money, since it is so deep and elaborate that ALL could find it useful?

The basic classes of English, Math and Sciences, prepare kids for the jobs awaiting them, that's it. The History classes, now called SOCIAL SCIENCES are lies, and ignore the most important points to history. Instead of being a story, it's factual data meant to indoctrinate the youth as Americans, as it was when they were indoctrinating immigrants 200 years ago. Everything else is just fluff. Even parents can't CHOOSE what their 5 year old takes in school. How would that be? A buffet of classes that your parents could choose to develop you, and that later on, maybe you could CHOOSE to take as you grow? I'm not talking about high school, I mean grade and middle school, so that you could GROW your experience younger and be more effective. One of the main reasons a child labor law was instituted, beyond the child factories (that was bad) was to prevent the headstart internships and apprenticeships allowed. Now, you have to be 15 in most places, or under the table, ignoring a fundamental part of growth. If you have an active dad, or good friends who can provide an outlet, you're golden, but alot of kids end up as cashiers anyways, when they could do handheld work, or observe/participate in other occupations.



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S1NN3R

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diplomatic_lies said:
If everyone could print their own money:

1) Nobody would work, causing production to collapse.

2) Because everyone has so much money to spend, but not enough goods are available to buy, prices would skyrocket. Bread would cost $1 billion per loaf.

You see?
This is probably the most sublimely simple description of inflation that I've seen. To expand on that.....

You make a widget. You sell the widget for $10. You spend that $10 buying my gadget. I spent that $10 buying your widget. Now you start to print your own money and all of the sudden you don't have to expend any effort making widgets! You print $100 and buy 10 gadgets from me. Now I have increased profit, and I want to buy 10 widgets from you. But you're on vacation in Venezuela vomiting on Maylasian hookers for the rest of your life because you don't have to work to make $10 anymore. So I offer you $100 to make me one damned widget because I really want another widget. but what do you need my $100 for when you can go print $1,000,000 at your leisure? Now all of the sudden, you've bought 100,000 gadgets from me and 9 others, and we're all rolling the the gadget dough. We don't need your money anymore, we all have enough now. Gadget production grinds to a halt. Pretty soon, you're all out of gadgets, and you want more, you gadget freak you! But since I've already got loads of money, and I can't even buy the widgets I want with it, I won't get out of bed for less than $10,000 per gadget. Finally, you're spending more than you can print just to feed your gadget addiction, so you have to resort to making widgets again, for $10,000 a shot of course.
 

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The whole treasury is a farce. Those dollar bills say "Federal Notes" but there is nothing federal about them as private industries (banks) currently run the money trade, not to mention this paper is not backed by anything of value other than the illusion that it is worth something.

This will of course become a moot point in the next decade when they successfully manage to eradicate paper money in favor of digital stock. No more ink or messy ink presses. I imagine that whenever money goes short, there will be an "Inflate" button for the convenience of the elite.
 

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diplomatic_lies said:
Speaking of education, isn't it funny how Asian countries (China, Korea, Singapore, etc) have even stricter and more "robotic" classes than Western schools...yet Asian students turn out hard-working, and graduate to become successful adults (think of the number of Chinese immigrants who can make a fortune in the USA, without even knowing English).

And yet in the US, with all their fancy "individual-tailored programs" and "creative classes"...most American graduates would get massacred in Asia's cutthroat business world.

Maybe the problem isn't the system, its the students.
Most immigrants that cannot speak fluent english, make their money through risk and entrepreneurship.

Asian culture and business success is based on a different fundamental structure than that of the western world, its based on family ownership and seniority. Long hours, not on productivity and effectiveness.

Not to mention, its about the entire system. "individual-tailored programs" and "creative classes" help an economy through innovation, in terms of technology and human capital, more efficient systematic processes, including Labour Market reform and human resource management.

If the Asian society was so successful and driven, why then have they copied western economic theory? Other than Hong Kong, of which still runs a fixed exchange rate policy, the entire economic systems of all Asian countries are becoming more and more western year by year.
 

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Don Ronny said:
The whole treasury is a farce. Those dollar bills say "Federal Notes" but there is nothing federal about them as private industries (banks) currently run the money trade, not to mention this paper is not backed by anything of value other than the illusion that it is worth something.

This will of course become a moot point in the next decade when they successfully manage to eradicate paper money in favor of digital stock. No more ink or messy ink presses. I imagine that whenever money goes short, there will be an "Inflate" button for the convenience of the elite.
lol. Money is a simple way of trade. Far fewer transaction costs, and less time consuming than the bartering system.

Federal, because the central bank controls the money supply. (Might I add, the Euro becoming one currency, seriously fukcs the capacity of individual struggling economies to get themselves out of recession and smooth the cycles). No large budget defecits, and no monetary policy (with some countries having a massive difference in industry and imperfect capital mobility), makes them pretty much fukced in time of recession! Will be interesting to see how some of these Euro countries go in years to come!

lol, in a decade, there will still be paper money! Without the smallest doubt!
 

Cash

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Great topic.

I have a question for the experts:

Strong exports push up dollar by default of Importer paying in dollars, right? Pushing up buying power of dollar, relative to that of other countries.

How does this bode for US based companies, and what role does GDP play in all of this?

What about the effect on exports when the dollar gets 'too strong' and importers go elsewhere? I guess the dollar starts to weaken. But I'm also quessing the fed steps in to prevent too much $ strenth/weakness?

Also, how do goverment pay off dept?

All help appreciated.
 

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From my knowlege, inflation is not a huge issue because the amount of old moneyin circulation is taken out and replace by new money in almost an equilibrium. I mean, when was the last time you got back an old ripped dollar, its all reletively new money. Its not an issue to fret over.
 

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Cash said:
Great topic.

I have a question for the experts:

Strong exports push up dollar by default of Importer paying in dollars, right? Pushing up buying power of dollar, relative to that of other countries.

How does this bode for US based companies, and what role does GDP play in all of this?

What about the effect on exports when the dollar gets 'too strong' and importers go elsewhere? I guess the dollar starts to weaken. But I'm also quessing the fed steps in to prevent too much $ strenth/weakness?

Also, how do goverment pay off dept?

All help appreciated.
My Eco is a bit rusty at the moment, but here is a go at your questions.

Firstly, you are correct, strong exports will push up the dollar. But remember, FDI (Foreign Direct Invesmtent) and Portfolio Investment are by far the biggest flows of currency these days, exports and imports should not alter the exchange rate too much. How does a rise in the USD impact on US companies. Makes it harder for them to export as their prices will not be as competitive, and imports more attractive as their buying power increases.

Strong exports will just increase GDP. C+I+G+NX remember. But as you say, this will induce a higher exchange rate, and a fall in net exports, which will, in turn, create some kind of equilibrium.

Exactly, when the dollar becomes too strong, importers will go elsewhere, as I stated above. And you are right, the Fed does step in to prevent too large fluctuations. This can be done either through monetary policy (raising or lowering interest rates), or done through them directly buying and selling USD and foreign currencies, as to alter the equalibrium price of currencies.
 

Cash

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Thanks man ^ One of the more informative threads on this site.
 

CLOONEY

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No worries man. Yeah, it is an interesting thread.
 

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BBX said:
From my knowlege, inflation is not a huge issue because the amount of old moneyin circulation is taken out and replace by new money in almost an equilibrium. I mean, when was the last time you got back an old ripped dollar, its all reletively new money. Its not an issue to fret over.
Inflation is a rise in prices, this can happen regardless of the money supply.
 

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Gold itself is like fiat money. Most of its value is based on perception. Economics as we know it is really little more than a belief system.
 

diplomatic_lies

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Bonhomme said:
Economics as we know it is really little more than a belief system.
Human society itself is a little more than a belief system.
 

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http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=115924

Goverment doesn't print money, a private aliance of bankers do.....In another words, goverment borows money from the private central bank (US RESERVE) and levrages it with taxes.....in return the cental bank can lend 10x more then it gave to the goverament.....

Watch the video (especialy the second one) and i'll be a lot more clear.
 
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