WestCoaster (or anyone), Marriage article you might find interesting...

[Biowaste]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...u=/ap/20040623/ap_on_re_us/men_and_marriage_4

Pretty interesting read about marriage and "statistics" involving men's involvement in marriage. Thought you might be interested in this...

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"Young men face few, if any, negative consequences to delaying marriage," the report said. "They can live with a young woman and gain some of the sexual and domestic benefits of marriage without the long-term commitment of marriage."
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-Biowaste

 

[WestCoaster]

Funny thing ...

... my parents have been married forever and I was brought up in a church-going family.

Actually I'm not down on marriage, I'm down on marrying the wrong person.

It's my good friends -- who are married -- who are the ones really down on it.

I'd get married within a year if I found the right one, to be honest.

What I'm not really for is living together. Stats prove that people who live together have much higher divorce rates after they marry. Plus, it's a false commitment, and it's like you're "test driving" a person.

All of my friends who did the test drive are on the brink of divorce. All of my friends who didn't live with the person before marriage are incredibly happy.

Something to think about.

 

[dietzcoi]

Well I had the traditional upbringing and religion, etc.

It is what happened to me AFTER I foolishly married the wrong person (due in part to the traditional upbringing, i.e. AFC training) which has soured me on the whole marriage/religion/children garbage.

I still maintain many men marry without knowing what is in store... they are influenced by AFC training and are in fact AFCs... what do you expect an AFC will tell you about his marriage?

Jewish prisoners volunteered to be police in concentration camps (Kapos) and actually helped the Nazis kill their own people and in the end were killed themselves... if they could contribute to their own destruction then it is no surprise that AFCs will contribute to their own downfall (married to b1tch and supplicating, and working themselves to death for nothing)

That is my opinion.. flame away!!!

Dietzcoi

 

[Austin Allegro]

I agree about not cohabiting.

In the UK, cohabitation has more or less replaced marriage for anyone under 30. If you say you are against it, you get blank looks from people. The only time I would be in favour is if you are engaged and have set clear plans to marry within the next year at the most.

The trouble with cohabiting is that you are neither one thing or the other. You have not made a legally binding committment to each other, but yet you have to live AS IF you have, so you can't date other people. It's actually a very subtle way of a woman being able to keep you as an AFC while letting you think you still have your 'freedom'.

I can understand why people cohabit - it is economical, looks good at first, and is probably better than rushing into an early marriage, but then you shouldn't be rushing into early marriage anyway.

 

[WestCoaster]

Agree

Agree with both of you guys. And yes, men do not know what's out there. As bad as women are in the selection process (picking bad boys, etc.), men are equally as bad. I knew so many guys when I was in my 20's just pulling the trigger to get married because "it was time."

Trust me, most of these women weren't worth it. You have to date and meet a lot of people to find out what you want. Frankly, most people spend more time shopping for cars and material goods then actually thinking about what they want in a partner, be it a girlfriend or life partner. I was just as bad in my AFC days. I had like two parameters: Did she like me and was she breathing?

And on cohabitation, I really don't get it. First off, you're married without being married. So you want a commitment, but don't have the commitment? Secondly, if you're SINGLE, don't you want to be single as in playing the field. So it wipes out two criticial things in one fell swoop: It wipes out the commitment you seek, or it wipes out playing the field. It doesn't fulfill either one.

I'm truly amazed that men and women are still falling for this B.S.

 

[maranathaman]

Not that i condone co-habitating but...

One good thing about living with a woman rather than marrying her, is that if you breakup, she doesn't get to financially ruin you, whereas if you are married and get a divorce, you're gonna get
royally screwed by her and her lawyers! The more I think about it, the more I'm coming to the conclusion that it's better NOT to marry or live-with a woman. In either case, you lose your independence, and the woman almost always will try to run your life. I'm starting to think it's better to stay single. I'm starting to think that the only reason to live in the same house as a woman is if you want kids, I don't!

 

[TooColdUlrick]

i think cohabitating is actually more of a commitment than marriage itself. yes, you heard me right!

think about it, either one of you can walk away without the hassle (binds/ties/legalities). the fact that you are "together" in spirit and not legal, indicates that you are together for the right reasons, of your own free will, and NOT because you HAVE to be together due the contract of marriage and all of the BS that goes with canceling that contract.

without the contract of marriage, the balance of power is equal. either one of you can walk away, and both of you know it.

marriage is a legal contract and nothing more. with it, the balance of power can, and often does, take a nasty turn. neither one of you can walk away (easily), and both of you know it. this tends to breed resentment over time.

recently a buddy and me were at a bar. he glanced over at a nice looking, tight, 25ish blonde, and he said to me, "damn, that's what my wife looked like when we first got married". he's about the same in looks and body. she fell apart, and he didn't. he could nab that same 25 year old blonde right now and he knows it. that little hampster wheel in his head is starting to spin. nevermind the fact that his wife nags the fvck out of him. she nags because she CAN! THEY'RE MARRIED! IT'S HER GOD-GIVEN RIGHT!

people tend to think about divorcing their spouse for quite a while--years perhaps. once they make the decision, tack on another year, two, three, or more just to get it done. hopefully, you won't get too screwed.

for people who have been cohabitating for a while, then get married, they do have higher divorce rates. most likely this is because they've been living together, de facto "married" already for several years, and the conclusion is almost always, "might as well get married". the reality of it is that they were probably ready for a "divorce" anyway. then they get married, then they get divorced.

 

[FratAndDiddy]

this is a good post and i hope we have young visitors from the main board review it.

after 3 lousy marriages, marriage is not for me, however, if some younger or even more experienced guys want to try it, then this is the way i would approach it nowadays:

if you think you got a good chickie on your hands, please don't be struggling with money and a place to live. get your own dwelling place and dont let her move in with you. it really screws up the process of marriage. date her, get to know her, don't go banging each other real soon and feel each other out thoroughly. once you both feel that you got a match, then spend the night at others place and watch their living and spending habits. stay the weekend or whatever, but dont move in on each other's space until you feel good about the relationship.

also, try not to be in your 20's. some guys (including myself) thought they were on the road to a good stable career. it's deceiving when you are young and have a few bucks in your pocket. get that career rolling and date many chickies. it really does give you a good quality sense to yourself.

the western culture way of living raises our young to be independent, a sense of everything centering around us, and not giving out or helping many others not within the tight circle of family and friends. especially females, many are raised to think independence and not to rely upon a man for their needs. many young girls are raised by bitter female controlled families where there is no father figure. it reallt tugs at the fabric of commitment.

my 2 wooden nickle's worth,
Frat

 

[gentleman193]

bump

this thread is gold. esp. toocold and frat

 

[Chrispy]

Some more stories:
Happy Women Have Healthier Hearts, Scientists Say
BERLIN (Reuters) - Happily married women tend to have healthier hearts than those who are lonely or unhappy, scientists said on Wednesday.

A 10-year study of 600 women between the ages of 30 and 65 led by Swedish researcher Kristina Orth-Gomer found that happy and supportive relationships have a positive effect on the health of human hearts.

"Women suffering from stress in their marriages showed a marked increase in the narrowing of blood vessels," Orth-Gomer told a German-hosted European congress on psychosomatic health problems in Berlin on Wednesday.

"But among happily married women, sclerosis of the arteries is more likely to clear up," she added.

Lonely women's hearts had a lower capacity to vary pulse rate, meaning they are less able to cope with physical strain. Socially isolated women also tended to be more at risk from obesity and diabetes, the study found.

Mr. Right' Is in No Hurry
NEW YORK (Reuters) - There's good news and bad news for aspiring brides: Many young men still want to marry, but most prefer to put it off until they are good and ready.

"Most men are the marrying kind," said Barbara Dafoe Whitehead, a director of the National Marriage Project at Rutgers University in New Jersey.

But she added: "The trend is to put marriage off."

A report by the group released on Wednesday found 49 percent of single heterosexual men between 25 and 34 would tie the knot tomorrow if the right woman came along. But 53 percent said they are not interested in getting hitched any time soon.

Whitehead, whose books include "Why There Are No Good Men Left," said many young men are waiting until they have a good education and a firm financial footing. Meanwhile, they want to enjoy the single life.

The report said 81 percent of married men in the same age group decided to wed because it was time to settle down; only 15 percent did so because their wives were pushing for it.

That shouldn't deter a marriage-minded woman from letting her man know what she wants, Whitehead said. "You don't talk marriage on the second date, but in a long-term relationship, it's probably important to put that on the table."

The study found 94 percent of men were happier married than single; 73 percent said their sex lives were better; and 68 percent said marriage helped them become more financially stable.

However, a sizable number -- 22 percent of single men -- said marriage just isn't for them. They are more likely to distrust women over past relationships, worry about the risks of divorce and fear losing their personal freedom.

Opinion Research Corp. conducted the survey of 1,010 men in February for the National Marriage Project. It had a margin of error of 4 percentage points.

 

[gentleman193]

Let's see a study conducted by men.

I don't buy the 94% number.

 

[dietzcoi]

Yes but remember of the 94% at least 75% are AFCs who claim to be happy in the marriage but in fact have allowed their wives to dominate them and are happy.

Here is an interesting question: I wonder how many so-called "punks" in prison (submissive homosexual partners of dominant males) would say they were "happy' in the relationship? I bet the number is also high! But none of us would dream of wanting to be in that position!! Just shows that people can get used to anything and accept anything over time.

In other words, the 94% means nothing. Those of us who are DJs or who are trying to become DJs know better. The proof of that is the 50% divorce rate. How can 94% of men be happy when half divorce?

This article was written by people with an agenda to put forth... the same ones who want us all to be AFC.

Dietzcoi

 

[Chrispy]

Maybe the 94% were from men whose wives telling them how to respond.

I agree...these guys could be total AFCs who define happiness as letting themselves be dominated by their woman.

 

[WestCoaster]

Honestly, I would say about 25 percent

My married friends (most who are unhappy) say this: 50 percent ends in divorce, the other 25 percent are miserable. That leaves 25 percent who are happy.

Un, I think 94 percent is WAY off. I'm not down on marriage, but I'm a realist. I have a lot of friends, know a lot of people. Most of the happily married people I know are like my parents: Older and from the generation where men were men and women were classy, respectful, well-spoken, and not trashy. (See women who grew up in the 30's, 40's, and 50's ... it's all downhill after that.)

Most single guys I know (including me) are pretty darn happy.

I would say it's about 25 percent who are happy. AFCs who are married just think they are happy because:
1. They don't know any better.
2. When they were single they were lousy at the dating scene.

Let's face it, most AFCs get married to anyone with a pulse and think that being nagged at is a good thing.

* Went shopping at the big box grocery store last night and remembered why I no longer shop there, despite the low prices. It is an AFC/fat woman haven. Nothing but fat women dragging these sorry AFCs around, nagging at them. It is utter and pure torture.

And it's bad for women watching, too. Not one good looking gal last night. That plus the AFC parade makes me ill!

 

[Falcon Eye]

Westcoaster,

Have you asked your friends who are miserable why it is that they stay in the relationship? Kids, money, rather be nagged at than face being alone? I've often wondered why would a forty something year old man, in an unhappy marriage, choose to stay and face decades in the same situation. Surely they know that things aren't likely to get any better.

I know it's a big move to leave a marriage but I mean if the kids are grown, then in my view, I'd rather be alone than face another 30 or 40 years of unhappiness. Some guys that I know who have left an unhappy marriage, or who went through having the wife leave, eventually wound up the better for it and would never go back. That's especially true after they've gotten a new woman on her knees and got re-acquainted with blows jobs, something that the wife gave up years ago.

It just fascinates me why guys choose to live in misery.

 

[WestCoaster]

An answer: AFC dooms us all

Falcon, you're somewhat obsessed with BJ's, but perhaps that's a good thing to be obsessed about. :>)

OK, some answers:

1. Good friend is miserable, but three young kids. Last one was unplanned, duped by the wife, who is going psycho more and more each day. She used to be a real gem, but I don't know what's going on.

2. Another friend is staying in a horrible marriage because he's an AFC. He should've gotten out years ago, now they're having their first kid at 40 or so. They don't even get along, yet they have a house and a cushy life ... I think that's why he stays in it. He contemplates an affair everytime I talk to him. A real man would've just gotten the legal divorce years ago. Sadly, he's a total AFC.

3. Another friend is separated on marriage No. 2. I like his wife and put the blame on him. He's a total perfectionist and tough to be around a lot. He could find a mole on Miss America's foot, to be honest. Oh yeah, he's an AFC, too.

And on and on ... usually it's the AFCs who are paying the price. They entered the marriage as a hopeless AFC, are now married AFCS, and miserable AFCs.

Never, ever become an AFC, it's a killer.

 

[FratAndDiddy]

got to find a place for that 94%:

i think 94% of us like BJ's though.

 

[TooColdUlrick]

Re: bump

Originally posted by gentleman193
this thread is gold. esp. toocold and frat

sheet, read the other one,

http://www.sosuave.com/vBulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=51131&perpage=20&pagenumber=6

 

[dietzcoi]

Westcoaster, Amen

I cannot find fault with any of your points. I too have friends who are AFC. One is 45, has a 35 year old second wife, his son is 21, he told the second wife ten years ago "no more kids!".

Guess what he is thinking about doing now? Going AFC!!!!

Dietzcoi

 

[Squid]

Re: Not that i condone co-habitating but...

Originally posted by maranathaman
One good thing about living with a woman rather than marrying her, is that if you breakup, she doesn't get to financially ruin you, whereas if you are married and get a divorce, you're gonna get
royally screwed by her and her lawyers!

I don't know about in the US, but in Canada this is not true, if you live together for more than 6 months (I think it's 6 months, I can't remember exactly) you are considered common law, and the same rules apply as if you were married. Meaning you still get taken to the cleaners.