Well-travelled? Meh.

[Wilko]

I've always been something of an agnostic on the virtues of travelling (I'll stick with the Queen's English). It was never a big priority for me, I ended up doing a reasonable amount anyway, and I remain nonplussed. The experiences were generally good, a couple were quite unique, i.e. not things I could have done at home, but I concluded that I really couldn't justify the cost for what I was getting out of it.

Most of it was at company expense with plenty of time and money to burn. For the life of me I can't see how they got their money's worth out of it either.

I see other people doing exactly the same things they'd do at home, i.e. drinking, eating, dancing, and shopping, and paying a lot more for the privilege of doing it in a different location. It's made all the more questionable thanks to the cultural homogenisation of developed and developing countries. Not to mention the uneasy feeling I have that some people are travelling with the explicit goal of making their FB profile look more impressive?

No doubt there's a small proportion of brave adventurers who are fvcking, fighting, flying and climbing their way around the world.

So, we arrive at my point. I'm suspicious of people who make a really big deal about travel, people who define themselves through it. And I can't help noticing that the more well-travelled a woman claims to be the less interesting she tends to be in conversation. It's as though a well-used passport is supposed to be an acceptable substitute for an engaging personality. Anyone else feeling me on that?

And then there's the relentless emphasis in their dating profiles on finding a travel companion. Whoa, whoa, whoa. While I'm unphased by travelling on my own terms, I know through personal experience that the quickest way to fvck up a promising vacation is to bring a girlfriend along. I directly know of two other break-ups brought on by holidays.

I think a little "compare and contrast" is in order for this subject.

 

[backbreaker]

rotfl, a woman telling me she wants a man that is "well traveled" is like defcon-4, obama break out the nukes abort level get out.

a woman telling you that a REQUIREMENT for her is that her man be well traveled is basically telling you that she wants a man to spend a lot of money to see **** that will in no way directly impact your everyday life, just so you can impress people. IF that isn't a red flag I don't know what is. It tells you that this woman you are dealing with is still dealing with fairy tales and not real life and if you do date her she's going to have fairy tale esque expectations of you.


I mean traveling is nice, but travel to see **** you want to see. I am going to Rome for the first time in spring and to the Vatican. though I am not reigious the vatican,l in particular the castel de sant'angelo , has always fasinated me. I love history so places like Carthage, Florance ,etc I will try to visit, because it will benefit me personally. I also love horse racing, and I have been to Dubai (dubai world cup) and want to go to Shi Tin Racecourse in Japan, which to me is the most epic race course in the world.

but just traveling to impress people to or to say you are well traveled, is pretty silly. Those are the same people say **** like "you can't put a good price on a college experience" only to be 28 years old and 50k in student loan debt while holding down a 30k a year job.

 

[pdx1138]

interesting subject.

I went on one date with a "well traveled" woman.
She was boring. All she talked about was travel.

It does seem like all the ladies of the online dating world put those words in their profile.

I remember seeing a few with many photos from all sorts of exotic places. then they mumble something about themselves "being worth it"....RUN AWAY RUN AWAY!!!

on another point, I've done some fair bit of traveling myself. Being exposed and experiencing other cultures and places of the world....I believe it's made me a more seasoned individual. But thats just my opinion of course.

 

[Wilko]

Yeah, there's no way I'm going to suggest my point of view is the only reasonable position on this.

Let's get into this a bit:

"Being exposed and experiencing other cultures and places of the world....I believe it's made me a more seasoned individual."

I'm just borrowing your words here because I hear this sentiment a lot, I'm certainly not demanding that you explain yourself. We've heard it so often we accept it on face value but does this actually happen? How does it work? Does being among people who dress differently and eat strange food for a short period of time actually have any impact on how you live your life when you get back home?

Another way I often see travel framed is like this: "I love travelling! Just got back from Vietnam and can't wait to get away again. Europe is next on the list...when my bank balance allows! LOL."

Hehehe. How many red flags did you spot there? Funny 'cause it's oh so true.

Ok, so obvious financial irresponsibility aside, you know what sh!ts me about self-descriptions like that? How bland and unrevealing they are. You spent thousands of dollars and all you can say for it is you went there and you liked it? Gah!!!

Hey, on a separate note BB I have to concur about college debt. I got away cheap about ten years ago with $20K in the hole. It's paid off but I can unequivocally say that every cent of it was a waste.

 

[Serialized3]

Yeah I've met a fair bit of the "traveler girl" type and the only thing i really noticed in common among them all is that they are think that they're gonna find the key or secret to really understanding the world or whatever (really a proxy for their own self-understanding it seems). Some are sluts, some are good girls, most are just your average morally relativistic/opportunistic chicks.

"you can't put a good price on a college experience" only to be 28 years old and 50k in student loan debt while holding down a 30k a year job.

You really can't man. College life was the shit for a good lot of us. I'd take out a $100k loan to go back and do it again knowing what I know now.

 

[backbreaker]

Yeah I've met a fair bit of the "traveler girl" type and the only thing i really noticed in common among them all is that they are think that they're gonna find the key or secret to really understanding the world or whatever (really a proxy for their own self-understanding it seems). Some are sluts, some are good girls, most are just your average morally relativistic/opportunistic chicks.



You really can't man. College life was the shit for a good lot of us. I'd take out a $100k loan to go back and do it again knowing what I know now.

over the last 3 years i've travled to france, england, australia, dubai, new york, louisiana, kentucky, hawaii, new jersey, florida, texas, mississippi, alabama and tennessee for less than half that amount (i think) and i assure you my stories would **** all over the "college life".

how many guys you know can say they went to a night club made of complete ice. I can. Or have snorkled on the sunshine coast. that's living my friend. OR been to the groove (which actually is a college thing), or get to see the arc de trimpohe live. That is living life. lol spending 100k to get drunk and go to house parties.


College life, is a safe heaven for AFC's. it's a high concentration of women, around alcohol and the odds of you "getting lucky" are increated. dude once you get over the AFC **** there are women everywhere. you coudln't pay me to waste my time in college. there is not an amount of money you could pay me to go to college, and i'm not exaggerating. that's real life time i could be doing something more productive

 

[Wilko]

Yeah I've met a fair bit of the "traveler girl" type and the only thing i really noticed in common among them all is that they are think that they're gonna find the key or secret to really understanding the world or whatever (really a proxy for their own self-understanding it seems).

Now this is getting interesting, I think you're onto something. I think of overseas holidays as bonus material, the extras disc on the DVD of life (I know, I know, it's a very labored metaphor). No matter how good the extras are it doesn't make up for an otherwise sh!tty film. Ayyyyye, see, not such a bad metaphor after all.

I think, and I'm just editorialising here, that you have to find contentment in the most mundane, routine aspects of your life; you need to get the monday to friday, nine to five right, it's 80% of your life! So yeah, when someone says "oh, I'm all about the travel darling" I instinctively think, what gives, that's only 2-3% of your life? I think that's what gets my hackles up when I hear those cliched claims.

 

[demezel]

To me there are two types of traveling, it is one thing to go to many countries for the holidays and enjoy yourself but i don't really believe that change anything about you. That type of traveling only brings the "what the world looks like beyond my city" type of experience. So i dont believe you actually change just by going somewhere with money and have a great time there. let me explain it a little bit clearly.

I was born in Morocco a country in North Africa but my parents were not from there, there were from Gabon another country in central Africa(went there to study). I spent a couple years in Morocco, i went to pre school with the kids there, i ran across the city and had the life of a regular citizen of Morocco, not an outsider. After that my parents and I went back to Gabon, there again i lived like a regular citizen, i went to middle school, saw and lived everyday's drama, struggle with friends(my family was middle class) and could identify a foreigner from miles away. After that we moved to France( Had no problem with the language because Gabon was colonized by the french so it is the spoken language there) Again went to school for 3 years there, lived the everyday's life like any french and picked up their way of living. After that I came to America and finished high school(english was not so easy to learn) here and now i'm in college, again I went to high school, experienced the way Americans live (high school parties, stereotype, dudes from football club, cheerleaders, nerds etc..) and i am still experiencing college.

What i want to say is that all these women who put "i am well traveled" and need a "well traveled" man are just full of crap, it is not because you went to a country and spent a month or two there that you can say that you know them or they have changed your life. In vacation you only see one side of a country which is the great one, you have money so you stay in a hotel and only visit . It is a Whole another thing to actually rent and apartment and live there. It might be true that people change just by seeing other cultures but most of the time they don't have that big of an impact on you because your mind was not very influenced by the locals due to the lack of time.

Traveling is great, it is fun, it might give you the best memories of your life(Like USA is the only country I know where you need to be 21 to drink alchohol, everywhere else it's 18), And in gabon the police don't do anything they are all drunk by 2pm, we could go to the bar at 14-16 and order a beer and say "my dad sent me" hell i saw mommies sending there 7 years old to the local pub to buy them beers, now that im in US i cant believe it but I saw it with my own eyes and i used to drink beers and strong alcohol with my buddies after school and go to the lack afterward..... Anyway this well traveled thing is just full of crap to me because after all the places i have been, Now i act like any americans, picked up their hobbies and sh!t and forgot about most of the stuff i learned in all those places good job mom...

 

[Wilko]

Hey demezel, that was a very cool post. I love the fact that I can throw a question out, ask for comment, and get a dozen unique, insightful answers every time. How good is SS?!

Man, I only wish my dates were capable of this caliber of conversation.

 

[SharinganUser]

Most women just go to resort spots and they think this is traveling. They party, sunbath, and shop, and then next year they go to a different resort spot and do the same thing.

 

[Dust 2 Dust]

If a woman expects her man to be well traveled its a red flag because most of the women I know are spend thrifts and don't have the discipline to save up several thousand dollars to travel on their own. They want to travel on a man's dime which is a huge turnoff. If she rejects you because you're not well traveled consider yourself lucky because you just weeded out a golddigger.

 

[Burroughs]

Just tell her you are well traveled but unless she is licking your azz on a regular basis she ain't coming with you.

 

[Zunder]

Theres travelling then there's travelling.
If you think the package holiday to Hawaii, Rome, London is travelling because your'e getting on a plane, flying, landing, going to a hotel, going to see some sights..blah blah blah...thats not travelling in my book.
Not even close.

 

[backbreaker]

To me there are two types of traveling, it is one thing to go to many countries for the holidays and enjoy yourself but i don't really believe that change anything about you. That type of traveling only brings the "what the world looks like beyond my city" type of experience. So i dont believe you actually change just by going somewhere with money and have a great time there. let me explain it a little bit clearly.

I was born in Morocco a country in North Africa but my parents were not from there, there were from Gabon another country in central Africa(went there to study). I spent a couple years in Morocco, i went to pre school with the kids there, i ran across the city and had the life of a regular citizen of Morocco, not an outsider. After that my parents and I went back to Gabon, there again i lived like a regular citizen, i went to middle school, saw and lived everyday's drama, struggle with friends(my family was middle class) and could identify a foreigner from miles away. After that we moved to France( Had no problem with the language because Gabon was colonized by the french so it is the spoken language there) Again went to school for 3 years there, lived the everyday's life like any french and picked up their way of living. After that I came to America and finished high school(english was not so easy to learn) here and now i'm in college, again I went to high school, experienced the way Americans live (high school parties, stereotype, dudes from football club, cheerleaders, nerds etc..) and i am still experiencing college.

What i want to say is that all these women who put "i am well traveled" and need a "well traveled" man are just full of crap, it is not because you went to a country and spent a month or two there that you can say that you know them or they have changed your life. In vacation you only see one side of a country which is the great one, you have money so you stay in a hotel and only visit . It is a Whole another thing to actually rent and apartment and live there. It might be true that people change just by seeing other cultures but most of the time they don't have that big of an impact on you because your mind was not very influenced by the locals due to the lack of time.

Traveling is great, it is fun, it might give you the best memories of your life(Like USA is the only country I know where you need to be 21 to drink alchohol, everywhere else it's 18), And in gabon the police don't do anything they are all drunk by 2pm, we could go to the bar at 14-16 and order a beer and say "my dad sent me" hell i saw mommies sending there 7 years old to the local pub to buy them beers, now that im in US i cant believe it but I saw it with my own eyes and i used to drink beers and strong alcohol with my buddies after school and go to the lack afterward..... Anyway this well traveled thing is just full of crap to me because after all the places i have been, Now i act like any americans, picked up their hobbies and sh!t and forgot about most of the stuff i learned in all those places good job mom...

I have always wanted to go to Morraco. I will one day to visit.

I agree with your post wholeheardtly though. I remember the first time I woke up and after living in arknasas my entire life, just decided one day, while driving down the street, I think tampa bay will be a good place to move lol. And in about a week I was living in Sarasota, which is about 30 miles from Tampa Bay on the beach. I stayed there for about what a half a year... those 6 months still to this day effect me more than all the visits out the country than I havfe ever had combined and we are talking about just moving to a different state. Some good and some bad. And now that I live in california and have for about 4 years now, I am not the same person I was when I moved back to little rock. Part of that is just growing up, but alot of it is getting different view points and perspectives on life. For instance, when I was little rock, the talent pool of women is so small, even the avg girls get treated like rock stars by guys to the extreme. I do believe honeslty alot of my AFCism was rooted in the fact that I was raised in little rock. There just aren't many options. I moved out to California and heck even when I was in flroida I got a different perspective on how a male/female dyanmic is supposed to be. I had women that physically in little rock would be 8.5-9's looking me over and coming to try to talk to me out of the blue. Puts things in perspective. And just dealing with different problems in everyday life. In Arkansas immigration isn't that big a deal. I mean it's a deal but it isn't like it is in Florida with the Cubans / Hatians and Cali like it is with the hispanics.

My wife, in the persuit of her wanting to ride horses for a living, that's what she always wanted to do and she's done it for the majoirty of her adult life, has lived in New Zealand, England (where she is from), France, and lived on both coasts of the US. She lived out a backpack the majority of her adult life. speaks and writes fluent french as she lived htere for 5 years. We've been there 2 times and she knows her way around paris and the outskirts of paris like the back of her hand.


There is traveling and then there is going on a journay. you will never learn antying living out of a hotel and visiting tourist traps. WTF does that make you any different than the guy who goes to the football game every week with his money?


Hell I like flying more than some of the destinations. I LOVE to fly. I love plans, I like sitting next to the window.. i have to have a window seat lol. like watching the takeoff, love landing, i just like everything about flying. should have been a piolt. big kid when it comes to planes. I can sit in an air port all day long and just watch plans land and take off

 

[Wilko]

Dude, it's a free dialogue on some overlooked aspects of the subject. Your contribution is welcome.

None of this should be construed as personal attack, I thought I made that clear, i.e. "there's no way I'm going to suggest my point of view is the only reasonable position".

Now come on, take it easy on the ad-homs and stop misrepresenting what I actually said.

You're a passionate guy, keep in mind we're just exploring the subject, these aren't loaded questions, so...

Your last trip to wherever, what insight did you leave with? And, what did you do with that "knowledge" when you returned to your normal life?

Hey additionally, since no-one else seems to have picked up on it, do you have any specific thoughts on travelling with a girlfriend (it's recipe for disaster from what I've seen lately).

 

[Zunder]

Dude, it's a free dialogue on some overlooked aspects of the subject. Your contribution is welcome.

None of this should be construed as personal attack, I thought I made that clear, i.e. "there's no way I'm going to suggest my point of view is the only reasonable position".

Now come on, take it easy on the ad-homs and stop misrepresenting what I actually said.

You're a passionate guy, keep in mind we're just exploring the subject, these aren't loaded questions, so...

Your last trip to wherever, what insight did you leave with? And, what did you do with that "knowledge" when you returned to your normal life?

Hey additionally, since no-one else seems to have picked up on it, do you have any specific thoughts on travelling with a girlfriend (it's recipe for disaster from what I've seen lately).

Travelling with a girlfriend? I took my last semi-serious girlfriend to a quiet little place (still with all amenities a short trip away) by the beach, beautiful weather - after two days she was "bored". It told me a lot about her and what a stupid bytch she was. Couldn't relax, head too filled with modernised man-jawed 'sex & the city' shyt to ever be able to go on holiday by a quiet seaside loacation and just chill the fvck out.
So I say YES - take your girlfriend and use it as a reverse ****-test. There might be no better way to find out quick the real deal about her fast.

 

[Wilko]

Ok, now we're having a useful back and forth. You wanna get a room yet?

I really would ask you not to read "beyond my words". When I say "take it easy on the ad-homs" (not, take it easy bro, u mad?) " that's exactly what I mean, you write well and your point can be made without calling me "asinine..pathetic..[and] really sad". I'm doing you the courtesy of avoiding that approach.

We're not pitching two opposing opinions to the ideological death here, because no-one is talking in absolutes! You're allowed to be a thoughtful, enlightened traveller, they're real, they exist, no-one is precluding that possibility, it's been discussed all throughout the thread. What I've been getting at is that many women like to affect this image, but the reality of it only extends as far as their status updates! I know this because when I probe them on it, they're unable to give me answers like the ones you just did.

Now I would hope you'd recognise (though you're not obliged to) that our positions are not mutually exclusive. I do note one striking difference though (and that's all it is, a difference). When you write about the daily mundane routine taking it's toll and draining you, which is no doubt true, I find it jarring, just because I love my weekday routine. I'm not genuinely happy unless I'm being useful and productive. I even like the rhythm of it, building up momentum each day, charging though the week and the year. One of the consequences of that is that I just don't get run down, I never find myself in dire need of a holiday reprieve.

No doubt this is the reason why I am less enamoured of travel than many. And note here Charismo, I am aware, as I was at the outset, that mine is a fringe position.

 

[demezel]

Haahaa!! -- "take it easy"...I love that.

oh i just realized this thread was in the mature man, well I guess i'll just be reading this thread for now on.

Charismo personally I don't take the chance I have for granted, I had the best memories of my current life from all the places I have been, I just don't believe in the " I want a well traveled man" type of women. It is not because somebody has traveled that he/she automatically gained some crazy wisdom/insight. I know 2 chicks and 3 dudes who went to Spain, Italy and I believe England all they did was party,party,party and party. On paper(their passports) they are well traveled but If you talk to the chicks, the conversation will be about some stupid gossip, the new LV bag that they want because it's expensive and at the end they will give you a blowwjob.

People tend to mix well traveled with good manners, wisdom, not average person,responsibility etc... these women should be asking for a person with "insights gained from traveling so we can have a good conversation" which is even more stupid because It is not because somebody has insights that he will be a good partner or any better than a guy who lived his entire life in New york, at the end of the day they are both humans and probably AFCs

Again this is just my point of view. :yes: :yes:

 

[Wilko]

Here's my own [not-so?] stunning insight, gleaned from a month here, a few months there. I learned how similar the middle-class experience is wherever you go in the developed world. I make no judgement on that, it's just an observation.

Demezel, you've probably got a take on this. Is there really much to recommend North America over Europe over the "better" parts of North Africa (Arab Spring aside!) as a place to live? Or are we talking about a grass is always greener kind of thing?

 

[Jitterbug]

My mum's friend has travelled to nearly every corner of the globe. She's even been to more places in my motherland than I have. She's also the most culturally ignorant person I've ever met, despite knowing lots of fluffy irrelevant facts about various cultures she's encountered. Her problem is that she always stays in the same sanitised & Westernised environment wherever she goes: cars, hotels, aircon buildings, and she treats the places like a kid treats the zoo.

My previous boss (a few years older than me) has travelled to pretty much everywhere in Europe & Asia, and a few Sth American countries. His stories of those countries all sound the same: he goes to some party / watering hole, gets blind drunk, stumbles home with a killer hangover the next day - sex with random ugly women may or may not be included. Europe, Asia and South America are all identical in that regard. His problem is that he's simply a boring guy with no real interest. Travelling a lot doesn't fix that for him.

Those people are very typical of the ones who talk a lot about travelling and stress how important a well-travelled partner is to them.