Well it has finally Happened......

[dustmuffin]

Sounds like a bad deal unless you are getting some sort of equity in the house. Then again, you would not have any type of house payment of your own so theoretically you might come out ahead financially.

I already have a house mortgage free. I don’t want to pay for hers even if I get equity. If (won’t happen) we got back together I would want to keep my house free of renters in case I had to bail.

 

[christie]

What would you say are five valid reasons for a man to marry a woman? If you can’t come up with 5, maybe 3?

I've got 5 reasons for me(woman to a man) to marry:

#1: to get a relative/a family member by choice

#2: to get a new last name/new tribe<<assuming the husband's family is more important now than the wife's.

#3: to give assets to someone when I pass away

#4: to have a legally recognised voice that speaks loyally on my behalf in a serious medical situation that could save my life.

#5: to share my thoughts and observations with a companion that has a status title 'husband' for all my life.

I'm dying to add a #6th reason: to relax that he has my back; will defend me physically.... but then what happens if the husband becomes crippled and can't do the physical defending?
so that would be one of those privately honest reasons I couldn't tactfully say out loud.

dustmuffin, you read like you have strong frame and excellent logic and ability to stay unreactive emotionally. Still sorry you're experiencing this.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

I've got 5 reasons for me(woman to a man) to marry

No one here would disagree that women have MANY valid reasons to marry a man that directly and disproportionately benefit the woman over the man. That wasn’t the question. The question is: What truly benefits the MAN in marriage? For the most part, the only real reason is, “To appease the woman in order to ‘keep’ her,” which isn’t a good enough reason and is also no guarantee.

 

[christie]

Could you read them as perhaps reasons a man could also find to marry a woman? Save for the added #6th reason.

Or could these not apply to men too?

For #2: A man could take the female's last name. Just have to do a formal name change or do one of those hyphenated deals.

#5: obviously substitute status title 'wife' for 'husband'

 

[oldmanofthesea]

Did you read them as perhaps reasons a man could also find to marry a woman?

I did but:

#1: to get a relative/a family member by choice

Not sure what the net result of this is, other than the label "family member" - You still aren't blood so it's just a label.

#2: to get a new last name/new tribe<<assuming the husband's family is more important now than the wife's.

This is opportunistic. But 100-200 years ago this had a lot more value than it does today. It isn't completely without value today, but unless you are marrying into an extremely wealthy family, it really doesn't matter, and again, it's very opportunistic, and I wonder what a man would think about this being one of the woman's top 5 driving motivations for marrying him?

#3: to give assets to someone when I pass away

It usually goes the other way. Women out-live men and on top of that, women are generally younger than the men they marry, further increasing the chance of her outliving him. And men are generally the bread-winners or at least typically make a lot more than women. So the odds are, #3 benefits the woman and not the man.

#4: to have a legally recognised voice that speaks loyally on my behalf in a serious medical situation that could save my life.

This is certainly valid in my opinion, though one could also have family members do the same for them. Parents, siblings, etc, but I realize this may not work for every family situation.

#5: to share my thoughts and observations with a companion that has a status title 'husband' for all my life.

Not really sure I understand the meaning/point of this. How would it be different if you were to share your thoughts and observations with a companion that has a status title, "Flying Spaghetti Monster"? Would it make the experience of sharing your thoughts and observations somehow different?

 

[christie]

these are interesting...and I didn't realise #2 and #3 is read as 'his' money related. Its not included in the words 'new name/new tribe' or 'my assets'

In my life experience up to date, I have had more assets, less debt than each man.

I don't have much of a positive balance sheet either. But it is positive.

I liked thinking about #5. What we all think of 'plate' or 'orbitor' is much different than 'girlfriend' or 'boyfriend' isn't that right?
In turn, 'husband' and 'wife' is even more weighty.

Would it change my depth of felt experience in what I share of my thoughts and observations in my daily life for the rest of my life?

I don't know, I assumed it would but I'll have to meditate on this awhile longer.


This is interesting to question my idea of the institution of 'husband'

 

[BackInTheGame78]

I had a very expensive divorce. 35k for my attorney and I lost half my stuff. Also had to pay child support and alimony. I’m not taking any chances. I’ll find another girl. I’m not worried about that.

So glad I talked my ex into doing it without lawyers. 35K for what? And hers was the same? The only one who ever wins in divorces are the lawyers.

I just don't get how 2 people look at each other and say "Yeah, let's fight over everything and spend 70K(or a whole bunch) to do it". Maybe I should consider myself lucky I didn't get involved with lawyers.

By the time you pay that, you could have just split things up yourself and pay $800-1000 to file the paperwork and been done. That's 70K of your money you both literally flushed down the toilet.

It would have been cheaper to just let her get whatever she wanted.

 

[DreamAgain]

If you don't have kids with the woman, no point to marry.

I think marriage (if viewed from an idealistic perspective) is important for raising children properly though, for many reasons that I don't feel like writing here.

Who will be the mother of your children is perhaps the most important decision a man will make. In many ways, once it's done, it's eternal, as marriage is (in theory).

 

[BeExcellent]

It stinks @dustmuffin but she wanted to be essentially rescued from financial responsibility at the end of the day. I can understand splitting costs if living with a partner but you already have a home free & clear. I can’t understand why wouldn’t she simply sell hers, take her equity, bank it or invest it and live with you in yours. Pay half your bills etc. That would have made much more sense to me from a financial standpoint.

I’m with you on the marriage thing. I’m gunshy at best if not downright adverse to marriage but like you I have assets to worry about and responsibilities to my ex spouse financially. No way I want a new partner mucking that up. It’s a different landscape in your 50s to be sure...having already done the whole kid thing.

I spent less than 2K getting divorced. Specifically did not want lawyers getting thousands of dollars (ex hubby agreed) so we figured things out ourselves and skipped the enormous legal fees.

It’s terrible the whole divorce rape thing. Terrible what so many women do. Hell we’d all like to be rescued financially right? That would be nice. I for one am busy working on rescuing myself as I have been working on for many years.

Once in a while I think Gee. Maybe I should’ve been more resource minded. After all, I’ve always been a hot chick. But I wasn’t raised to think that way.

It never occurred to me to marry for money. That always seemed to be a sell out. So I pick first on passion, which isn’t perfect but desire is never an issue, lol.

Sorry it ran it’s course...

NEXT!

 

[Baibars]

You should've dumped her before she did. Why did you wait until she dumped you?

 

[TheKid]

I think men marry women believing the fairytale that the sex never ends and she'll straighten up her bull****

 

[TonyTenner]

If you don't have kids with the woman, no point to marry.

I think marriage (if viewed from an idealistic perspective) is important for raising children properly though, for many reasons that I don't feel like writing here.

Who will be the mother of your children is perhaps the most important decision a man will make. In many ways, once it's done, it's eternal, as marriage is (in theory).

Why is it even necessary to marry to raise kids properly? I know you said you don't want to get into it, so others feel free to chime in here. I think it can be done without marriage.

Im in the same situation at the OP, except maybe a week behind. I made it clear from the start I don't want to marry (I've inherited valuable land that's been in the family for generations). But suddenly this has come up as a major issue. I completely agree with this from @Black Widow Void : "If I marry you, then you may wonder if it's a piece of paper that is keeping us together. If we aren't married, then you'll never doubt my love because you'll know that I'm with you because I want to be." This is pretty much what I said to my gf. She couldn't give me a valid answer as to why that's not good enough. It proves the point - men are the true Romantics.

@Roober seems to have successfully got past this hurdle. Has anybody else? It's likely he's in a tiny minority. It seems to me that a woman who does agree to stay with you and never marry would be violating Briffault's law, making her a rare breed. It's a shame. I'll have to break-up. Western governments have completely disincentivized marriage, and nobody is talking about it.

 

[AureliusMaximus]

Never be forced into marriage. NEVER

If it is THAT important to the, that they will dump a good man over it, let them go.

She was never yours's anyway, it was just your turn...

Be happy that you're smart enough not to sign any legal papers and not getting divorce r a ped when she left you for the next dude.

 

[Alvafe]

You should've dumped her before she did. Why did you wait until she dumped you?

actually in this case, you kinda don't, she can say whatever she want, the important is she sticking around, woman will talk a lot, most of time means little to nothing, its her actions its important, a woman interested in you will stay with you for years even if she bug you sometimes about marriage, but the moment she do this and leave you know she was not that interested and invested on you, with is for all reason the why you didn't marry her.

also I did read this before and agree, to marry a woman she need to prove she deserve it, and that is not she asking, is she proving she will be there to help you, will add to your life, @dustmuffin know she wouldn't, he was aware she just wanted a sucker to pay the bills, hence why he would never commit her "wishes"

also guys need to understand the main reasons for marriage for woman, social status, security and money. woman love to compete with everything so don't doubt if they compete not only on how desireable they are with they "friends" but also who would have a happier life, if they have some friends marriad and say they are happy, jealousy will kick in she will try to compete, security is a given more people in her household more secure she will feel about, reason why men are more interested in house and farms/ranchs, and woman are more for apartaments, its all about security, and I hope I don't have to explain the money part

in this case there is nothing to feel back about, she proved to you she was not a keeper and are easily replaceable

 

[Baibars]

actually in this case, you kinda don't, she can say whatever she want, the important is she sticking around, woman will talk a lot, most of time means little to nothing, its her actions its important, a woman interested in you will stay with you for years even if she bug you sometimes about marriage, but the moment she do this and leave you know she was not that interested and invested on you, with is for all reason the why you didn't marry her.

also I did read this before and agree, to marry a woman she need to prove she deserve it, and that is not she asking, is she proving she will be there to help you, will add to your life, @dustmuffin know she wouldn't, he was aware she just wanted a sucker to pay the bills, hence why he would never commit her "wishes"

also guys need to understand the main reasons for marriage for woman, social status, security and money. woman love to compete with everything so don't doubt if they compete not only on how desireable they are with they "friends" but also who would have a happier life, if they have some friends marriad and say they are happy, jealousy will kick in she will try to compete, security is a given more people in her household more secure she will feel about, reason why men are more interested in house and farms/ranchs, and woman are more for apartaments, its all about security, and I hope I don't have to explain the money part

in this case there is nothing to feel back about, she proved to you she was not a keeper and are easily replaceable

Yeah but why not dump before she does when you see the signs and she shows less investment?
Why do you have to force her to make the decision when you see that it's going nowhere and make the decision as a man?

 

[dustmuffin]

You should've dumped her before she did. Why did you wait until she dumped you?

Because I really didn’t care.

 

[dustmuffin]

It would have been cheaper to just let her get whatever she wanted.

That was the problem. She wanted everything and had an attorney. So I had to hire one to represent and protect me.

 

[Glassguy]

Yep....My girlfriend that I have been bragging about has dumped me. She wants to get married and alas I don't. I saw it coming. It was over three good years. I can't complain.

I am a bit sad which is to be expected. But I didn't simp or beg. I behaved much better than my last breakup. Some of you might remember that. It was about 5 years ago. What mess I was. Anyway I'm going to work on me and pick-up the odd date now and then.

I have been on OLD a few days and have gotten a few matches. I'm talking to around 15 girls now and have two dates scheduled for next week. I'll see how they go. I might just take a break from women for a while. We will see.

"Women are like a bus. Another will be round in 15 minutes." -Dustmuffin

First off, sorry things ended.

Understand that in your situation the woman is putting more value on the social value of marriage than she is YOU and being with you.

There are certain major issues that will derail a relationship and the only thing that will happen if one person concedes is being miserable later on in life from succumbing:

Marriage
Having kids
Living location
Religious views
Parenting views
Managing finances
Drug issues

I am sure there are more, but those are major deal breakers.

I am particularly glad to see that you look at this as 3 good years with this woman and it ran its course. Time to move on. You were one step ahead of the game by knowing this day was coming and preparing yourself for it.

Take a few days to regain yourself and then go back out there and start working that mojo. Plenty of women out there looking for whatever it is you're wanting from them.

 

[DreamAgain]

Why is it even necessary to marry to raise kids properly? I know you said you don't want to get into it, so others feel free to chime in here. I think it can be done without marriage.

Im in the same situation at the OP, except maybe a week behind. I made it clear from the start I don't want to marry (I've inherited valuable land that's been in the family for generations). But suddenly this has come up as a major issue. I completely agree with this from @Black Widow Void : "If I marry you, then you may wonder if it's a piece of paper that is keeping us together. If we aren't married, then you'll never doubt my love because you'll know that I'm with you because I want to be." This is pretty much what I said to my gf. She couldn't give me a valid answer as to why that's not good enough. It proves the point - men are the true Romantics.

@Roober seems to have successfully got past this hurdle. Has anybody else? It's likely he's in a tiny minority. It seems to me that a woman who does agree to stay with you and never marry would be violating Briffault's law, making her a rare breed. It's a shame. I'll have to break-up. Western governments have completely disincentivized marriage, and nobody is talking about it.

I've never been married myself so I can't speak from experience like some of the posters here. What I imagine, if you find the right woman, is the following:

• Marriage gives the children an impression of stability and allows them to focus easier on actual problems that life will throw at them. It gives them a sense of assurance that mom and dad will "always" love each other, be together, and be present in their lives. This is very powerful I think.

• It, if you marry the right woman, is a further confirmation that she will be by your side and that you want to be with her, and only her. Without marrying, she, or you, may wonder if you are on the lookout for a better deal.

• There are certain financial and societal benefits, but on the flip side there are risk as well if things go wrong.

Of course this is idealized, so I would pretty much come to the conclusion that if you suspect any of this is impossible, or you have doubts about the current girl you are with, then you obviously do not proceed.

It assumes:

• You did not marry a gold digger, or a woman who put up a facade that she loves you for ulterior motives.
• That she did not have children with you as means to use them against you for future nefarious purposes.
• That she is honest, honorable, and takes her vows seriously. She strives to be the woman of your ideals as much as she can, as you the husband for her do as well.
• Perhaps most important, her moral character is strong. She will not just slip up or get lazy because things get good, maybe you get a promotion at work and now money is flowing easier. The woman you marry does not change in her character as the surroundings around her change, for better or for worse.

 

[bat soup]

If a woman cares more about getting a ring than she cares about staying with you, let her go.