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War on Terror is not about winning

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Stuntmann

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I've come to a conclusion that war on terror is not about winning. Here are a few simple examples.

On national geographic there was a story on journalist embed with green berets in camp cobra, in Afghanistan. Story goes like so, elders from all over come to cobra to tell them they want to fight taliban. They raise a point that patrols never reach villages that are far away from cobra. This provokes green berets to go on a mission to one of these far villages. They get ambushed, people die.

An story on discovery channel about embed with contractors in Iraq shows contractors driving to a remote city on the only one road into and out of that city. They know that they will get ambushed on their way out. They do get ambushed.


Insurgents and Taliban are in control and have the upper hand?


Let's use our brains people.


In the first instance, even a fool can understand that green berets were intentionally drawn further out of camp cobra, so that they could get ambushed. Sure, Taliban had no idea which village, at least at first. But the journey was long enough for them to put together an ambush.

Also in the first instance. Reports indicate that anyone seen in contact with Americans will get killed by Taliban. Yet! You see the whole village come in contact and use Americans to full advantage as far as medical care and food goes. It's a strategic move, to hold green berets up, so that they approach place of Ambush later in the day, thus forcing them to be more reckless as they exposed in the open, during dark, without cover.



Second instance. Contractors and Army and Marines, everybody knows about these ambushes. One road in, one road out. On their way in, contractors let insurgents know they're coming and will be going out soon. They prepare the ambush.

Here are two solutions if you know it's going to happen and where. A) have a high flying drone, invisible to the naked eye from the ground, pin point people on the ground, and then have an F16 fly past them at high rate of speed and drop some cheap Vietnam era fire bombs. Solution B) is to line up several Apaches and pick out targets one by one. Surely, anything hot in the zone and at time when no one should be out is a target.

Franky, in the second instance, it was no ambush. Contractors knew it will happen.


Now, you might think that the U.S. is simply over extended. Richest country is over extended? That's nothing but pure bull sh1t. There is a reason for everything.


Gentlemen, war on terror is not about winning. War on terror is about destabilizing the middle east for our own advantage. War is money, history shows the United States does very well economically during war. They can win, but they don't want to win.

Winning this "terror war" so soon would be a poorly thought economic move.
 

Skel

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War is about money. Thanks for telling us what 99% of us already know.
 

BlackJackal

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Of course. I knew it was all about blood money.
 

Ricky

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There has been war since the beginning of time, there will always be war.

There will never be an end to war. There will never be peace everywhere on this planet.

Just as we are programmed to reproduce, we are conditioned to destroy.
 

bigjohnson

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Programmed vs. conditioned is an interesting and insightful use of verbiage.
 

Suicide

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You think the hundreds of thousands of minds in the military haven't thought about your combat "solutions"? Please.
 

speakeasy

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I could see how an argument could be made that going into Iraq was for financial/oil reasons, but when it comes to Afghanistan, that argument is bull****. Now I'm no defender of Bush, but if he hadn't gone into Afghanistan, then people would be complaining that he let Al Queda set up base in Afghanistan and did nothing to combat terrorism. Then if he does something about it, people claim it's all about money. There is no oil or riches in Afghanistan, other than opium poppies, so saying we went in there for financial motives is nonsense.
 

backbreaker

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i have a cousin who is in afghanistan right now, she's 20 with 2 kids, and her roomate just killed herself. this **** hit's close to home.

however when i think about it, I blame her for joining the army in the first place. I laugh at people who say "im going to join the army becuase they get paid and it's easy.. you never have to do anything an dyou can.."

yeah.. it's easy when you aren't at war. when you are at war, the wages seem to catch up to the risk pretty quickly.


this country is a cluster****. simple as that. we nonimate people for president not becuse of issues, but because of parties. we are more concerened about the fact that Obama did cocaine...30 years ago.... then we are that he is one of the canidates that has never wavered from his believes and has the record to prove it. More concerned with Fred Thompsons trophy wife (if that's what you want to call her) than the fact that he's not qualified to run for student class president, nevertheless the POTUS. More concerned with an actor trying to kill hismelf, or Paris's new whatever she's doing, than the fact that people, real people, are dying for no reason whatsoever other than we can't admit we ****ed up.

what a wonderful world
 

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Bible_Belt

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I have one cousin who just got out and another still in. When it is a year or two before your time to reinlist, they often promise a sweet stateside gig plus a big cash bonus if you reinlist, and Iraq if you don't.

I would have been a 2LT in Iraq had I not quit rotc. At age 18, I signed (and later broke) what was essentially an 11 year employment contract.
 

KarmaSutra

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speakeasy said:
I could see how an argument could be made that going into Iraq was for financial/oil reasons, but when it comes to Afghanistan, that argument is bull****. Now I'm no defender of Bush, but if he hadn't gone into Afghanistan, then people would be complaining that he let Al Queda set up base in Afghanistan and did nothing to combat terrorism. Then if he does something about it, people claim it's all about money. There is no oil or riches in Afghanistan, other than opium poppies, so saying we went in there for financial motives is nonsense.
Don't you think it's in the U.S. Governments best interest to keep the opium trade flourishing? How else are black operations funded? Our taxes? Please . . .
 

KarmaSutra

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backbreaker said:
this country is a cluster****. simple as that. we nonimate people for president not becuse of issues, but because of parties. we are more concerened about the fact that Obama did cocaine...30 years ago.... then we are that he is one of the canidates that has never wavered from his believes and has the record to prove it. More concerned with Fred Thompsons trophy wife (if that's what you want to call her) than the fact that he's not qualified to run for student class president, nevertheless the POTUS. More concerned with an actor trying to kill hismelf, or Paris's new whatever she's doing, than the fact that people, real people, are dying for no reason whatsoever other than we can't admit we ****ed up.

what a wonderful world
Preach, my brother, preach!
 

Stuntmann

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speakeasy said:
I could see how an argument could be made that going into Iraq was for financial/oil reasons, but when it comes to Afghanistan, that argument is bull****. Now I'm no defender of Bush, but if he hadn't gone into Afghanistan, then people would be complaining that he let Al Queda set up base in Afghanistan and did nothing to combat terrorism. Then if he does something about it, people claim it's all about money. There is no oil or riches in Afghanistan, other than opium poppies, so saying we went in there for financial motives is nonsense.

The goal if you think about it, of the policy, is to destabilize the middle east. There isn't much oil in Iraq either. It's not the oil. Destabilize the middle east. That has consequences for those countries, when not stable people tend to sell things cheaper. Prevent them from advancing economically..
 

speakeasy

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Stuntmann said:
The goal if you think about it, of the policy, is to destabilize the middle east. There isn't much oil in Iraq either. It's not the oil. Destabilize the middle east. That has consequences for those countries, when not stable people tend to sell things cheaper. Prevent them from advancing economically..
No, I think you have completely backwards. The goal of the policy is to *STABILIZE* the middle east and replace extreme leaders with western-friendly ones. America has nothing to gain with an unstable middle east. Instability in the region makes it harder and more dangerous to get oil. We saw this with the first Gulf War. Saddam invaded Kuwait, threatened to invade Saudi Arabia and we went in there to put him down and restabilize the region. Had we not, we'd probably be paying $10/gallon for gas right now.
 

Stuntmann

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speakeasy said:
No, I think you have completely backwards. The goal of the policy is to *STABILIZE* the middle east and replace extreme leaders with western-friendly ones. America has nothing to gain with an unstable middle east. Instability in the region makes it harder and more dangerous to get oil. We saw this with the first Gulf War. Saddam invaded Kuwait, threatened to invade Saudi Arabia and we went in there to put him down and restabilize the region. Had we not, we'd probably be paying $10/gallon for gas right now.


Fair.


However, the actions of us, of them, of everybody involved in this mess trying to stabilize the middle east, suggest otherwise.
 

speakeasy

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Stuntmann said:
Fair.


However, the actions of us, of them, of everybody involved in this mess trying to stabilize the middle east, suggest otherwise.
What we saw happen was the law of unintended consequences. Bush thought that the second Gulf War would be as quick and decisive a success as the first one. The difference is though is that we left Saddam in power in the first one. He may be an a**hole but he was also a tyrannical strongman that kept people in their place out of fear, now that he's gone, there's nothing to stop the chaos and fighting between the religious sects. Only thing to do at this point from what I can see is divide Iraq into 3 territories so each warring relgious faction gets their own land. Either that or put another Saddam-like dictator in power.
 

BlackJackal

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Well Bush thought wrong. You cant just based things of today off of what already happened in the past. Regardless of intent, results show that they fvcked up. No excuses.
 

Create Reality

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The only thing that would satisfy me is seeing results (stats, like number of people arrested) from the Patriot Act. Do we really need our government to violate us like this?
 

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Sorry guys this isn't a politcal forum
 

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