Wants to be just friends. What should I say?

[kenpiffyjr]

Always go with a woman's actions over her words.

Its probably just she's not ready to settle down with you (she still probably wants to stay on the carosel) or there's another guy. You could have been an alpha and still had the same results.

I'm gonna give you a personal experience. I've been seeing this 24 yo. Mind you, I personally believe I have traits of what attracts women looks and personality/fun wise except the visual social status and provider emblems that catch women's eyes. My circle is small out of choice and there's nothing picket white fence about the money I make.

Anytime I'm with her...I basically dominate her and she's in my frame and she loves it. I tell her to swallow, and she'll rush to her knees. She could walk into my apt door and I immediately shove her to the wall.

The thing is, I can tell she's looking for the security of a provider. A guy who gives her the status that will impress her friends. This doesn't affect me at all. I'm still getting what I want as I know it's just my turn and I understand that if she says "ken, I wanna take this other guy serious" I'll salute her and wish her well.

In my head I understand that I affect her irrational emotions, but not enough to trump her rational life choices. This a lot of times is the life of an alpha male. You deal with these type of things like a MAN.

I'm content in knowing that if I was a 100k career dude, her rational mind would see me as a stepping stool to her own agenda.

But I know that given the right environment, I would always be able to fuucck her.

 

[Harry Wilmington]

Wow... this was such a great read (all 6 pages of it so far, lol), and a lot of good advice was given...

OP: for future women, you need to make sure the women you're going after are (a) past a certain age, and (b) live close to you. To be honest, even with all the mistakes you made, as soon as you said she was 21 and went to school far away, my first thought was "oh - so it's not going to work out, then, too bad..."

Why? At 21 most women are still trying to find themselves, and fall in/out of love/strong like with new dudes every other week. Add on the fact that she can't see you on a regular basis (i.e. once a week) for date nights, and it's already set up to fail.

Yes, the other things you did in terms of being too revealing with your feelings, making it feel like you two were in a relationship already, etc. contributed to the eventual downfall... but really: being 21 and long distance were the two major factors. This is why it's better to date a woman that's 23 or older (she's at least out of college and has some idea of what she wants out of life) and lives near you.

Lastly... stop holding on to this girl. I saw the sentence where you said you'd hold on to a friendship with her in the hopes of still having sex with her. That's not the way this works - you holding on to the friendship means when she comes home she'll contact you to hang out not expecting you to want sex. Don't shoot yourself in the foot like this...

Here's a Jedi mind-trick for you (i.e. some "advanced game" tactics): try NOT agreeing to be friends with her. I've had it where girls I had crushes on wanted to just "be friends" and I straight up told them "nah, I'm good - but hey, hit me up if you change your mind" and them left them alone. Like, actually stopped thinking about them, blocking them on facebook, going after other women, etc...

Fast forward a couple months later, and they're hitting my phone up talking about how they want to meet up with me at my place to "talk..." Which usually leads to some kind of hook-up. (I actually have a whole e-Book about how to do this kind of thing... but that's another story).

The point? You can't use guy logic to get a woman to do what you want. You continuing to be in her space makes you too familiar for her to want to do anything with you. However, you leaving her space CAN make her miss you to the point that she'll want to see you on YOUR terms.

Note: this is not encouragement for you to try and get back with her. This is simply advice for how to better your chance at another hook up with her should you not heed the great advice others have already given here about moving on from her. Either way, hope this helps!

 

[mrgoodstuff]

If you want more than just a friend, I'd move on to other people as what you want more than likely will never materialize again.

The fact that she still writes you means most likely she still wants something, but that something isn't the same thing as what you're looking for.

You'd have to seriously weigh out whether or not it is worth it for you to spend all that time and effort trying to get out of the friend zone. If she really motivates you that much, then I "might" consider it, but there's plenty of other options out there, and if you have no problem obtaining them, you'd be far better off putting all that effort into them.

I don't think you "work your way out" of anyone's friend zone. What you do is move on and backburner them and get onto living your life. Maybe one day they will see your worth, but you don't do it for this reason. You do it for you.

 

[daddymonsterpoodle]

Friend zone is limbo. You will stay there forever unless you really up your game.

Whatever you say from now on will come across as butthurt, so don't say anything else.

Get on with your life. She chose not to be a part of it.

 

[casanova_goat]

Thanks all for the responses.

Here's a little update if you guys are curious, though this has been a dead situation for sometime.

This chick reached out to me this morning, we hadn't spoken since last weekend. She sent me a link to a funny video. I took her sending me the video as her wanting to hang out since I knew this to be the first day of her Spring Break (meaning she was back in town). However, we chatted a bit today and she wouldn't say she was back in town. I told her I was going to my favorite coffeeshop to do some work and jokingly asked her if her plan was to drive up to hang out there.

Well, a little while later, she admitted to being home but was hanging out with a friend. While awaiting for my beverage in the aforementioned coffeeshop, she and her ex walked in and she ran up to me to say hello. She declined my embrace. Perhaps I didn't play it as cooly as I would have liked since their entering the place was so sudden and I had never seen her and her ex together, nor have I seen her in over a month. I went to sit down on a couch and her ex took his sweet time fixing his drink, like squeezing honey as methodically as possible. He seemed to grin at me, while the chick hid behind a pole. At one point, I saw her motion with her hand to hurry up.

I really wanted to wipe the grin off that guy's face with my fist. I didn't think she knew I knew that was her ex. It would have been a real **** move if I approached the ex and put out my hand, "Mike, Rachel has told me so much about you, however, you don't strike me as unmotivated as Rachel told me you were."

It's a dead situation but I thought I'd relay the anecdote. I have a date with another chick tonight, whom I randomly ran into on St Patty's Day and we later went out for a drink. Unfortunately, I don't feel the sparks for this one quite like subject of this thread. In the future, anytime a chick mentions her ex is still in the picture, I will run.

 

[daddymonsterpoodle]

Lucky you got away..she's toxic.

 

[casanova_goat]

There's more ...

I don't know if this thread will ever end, maybe it will get pinned. A reference on what not to do?

Two days after the above incident (which was Monday), I reached out to her. I mean, what did I have to lose? It was the last day before she planned on returning to school from Spring Break. I wasn't expecting a good response.

To my surprise, she was willing to meet up, and we met at our favorite coffeeshop at 5 then went for a walk.

Here are some of the details:

While at a store, she pointed at an Astrology book and cited that BS as the reason we were not compatible in a relationship. Allegedly, after friend-zoning me she checked the compatibility (or lack thereof) of our signs for confirmation on her decision.

While in the park, I grabbed her arm to initiate a kiss, and she rebuffed, "nooooo" , "I'm so uncomfortable" , "I'm not emotionally available right now."

She told me she wasn't with anyone so don't get jealous.

We walked around for another 15 minutes or so, I got her to laugh after the incident of awkwardness before she had to leave for dinner. Her plan was to see another friend (a female friend) whom I know.

Like an hour and a half later, I get a text from her, thanking me for hanging out. She said her friend wasn't hanging out with her because she had to go to the gym ... then she added an ugh.

I was surprised to hear from her after making a move in a park and proposed getting a drink, to which she said "sure" and asked if I could pick her up.

I was thinking perhaps sex would come of this, but, even after two glasses of wine, she wasn't giving herself away. She only gave me her cheeks to kiss when I dropped her off.

On the date, I asked when we would kiss again and she said she was "ambivalent."

Also, on the date, this other chick I am casually dating, texted me "night" ... neither of us had spoken all day. This chick saw her text come in and said something to the effect, "are you going to tell her about us?" then quickly began to qualify it, "that you are talking to someone else?" I forget exactly what she said.

It's amazing how good my frame is with this other chick compared to how bad it is with the chick here. She thinks I am "mysterious" and "sexy". I don't think a man could hope for better descriptors from a woman, especially the former.

However, even though she is pretty and I like her, when I am with her, I don't get a certain special feeling I do with the chick of this thread. In the last 10 years, I could count on one hand the amount of women I have dated who have made me feel like the chick of this thread. It's a sad reality emotion is generally sovereign over reason.

 

[Atom Smasher]

Attraction is not a choice. You're denying reality, trying to extract attraction for you out of her, and it just isn't there.

You've only damaging yourself by dealing with this woman, and you're not fully aware of the extent yet.

I wish we convey to you how pathetic you seem to her deep down inside. Her outer awareness tries to rationalize you into a "friend", but trust me, her deep-down inner core is repulsed by your behavior. Hence the cheek, and hence her comments.

 

[casanova_goat]

Attraction is not a choice. You're denying reality, trying to extract attraction for you out of her, and it just isn't there.

You've only damaging yourself by dealing with this woman, and you're not fully aware of the extent yet.

I wish we convey to you how pathetic you seem to her deep down inside. Her outer awareness tries to rationalize you into a "friend", but trust me, her deep-down inner core is repulsed by your behavior. Hence the cheek, and hence her comments.

Thx for the response.

The thing is, the attraction may not be there at the moment but she once had it for me. I was hoping it would convey confidence that I expect a women's attraction to always be there for me.

Believe me, I debate what good has come from meeting this chick. We had sex once and some fun times together, but it was really not a good trade-off for the stress she has caused me. She is the basis for my joining this site, after all. The sad truth is I am really attracted to her and most of the feelings I have for her were formed before things began to go south. We have a ton in common, hit it off well together, and I consider her a perfect 10 on the looks front.

You really think she is "repulsed" by my behavior? It would seem so based on her reaction in the park, but why would she, less than two hours later, want to have drinks with me? "Hey this guy made a move on me in the park which I did not appreciate, let me go have a drink with him alone. I mean, it's not like he'll make a move on me under those circumstances" On top of that, she gets all dolled up, changes what she is wearing. I see her checking her appearance in her phone when I get back from the bathroom. Then she text me the following day, expressing incredulity at my mom's political leanings. She still seems to enjoy my company.

Part of the impetus for pressing the point with her is because I know she is physically attracted to me. She may be completely put off by my actions and thus, at the moment, has no general attraction to me, but the physical attraction hasn't gone anywhere. For this, I have, what may be a delusion, she may become interested in me again if I dropped off the face of the Earth.

I am sure there is a collective eye roll here whenever I post in this thread. I am sure, however, many of you can attest to, at one point in your life, meeting a woman for whom you have these inexplicable feelings whenever you are in her presence. Once these feelings have reign over a man, they lead him to do all stupid $hit and entertain baseless conjectures.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Thx for the response.

The thing is, the attraction may not be there at the moment but she once had it for me. I was hoping it would convey confidence that I expect a women's attraction to always be there for me.

Believe me, I debate what good has come from meeting this chick. We had sex once and some fun times together, but it was really not a good trade-off for the stress she has caused me. She is the basis for my joining this site, after all. The sad truth is I am really attracted to her and most of the feelings I have for her were formed before things began to go south. We have a ton in common, hit it off well together, and I consider her a perfect 10 on the looks front.

You really think she is "repulsed" by my behavior? It would seem so based on her reaction in the park, but why would she, less than two hours later, want to have drinks with me? "Hey this guy made a move on me in the park which I did not appreciate, let me go have a drink with him alone. I mean, it's not like he'll make a move on me under those circumstances" On top of that, she gets all dolled up, changes what she is wearing. I see her checking her appearance in her phone when I get back from the bathroom. Then she text me the following day, expressing incredulity at my mom's political leanings. She still seems to enjoy my company.

Part of the impetus for pressing the point with her is because I know she is physically attracted to me. She may be completely put off by my actions and thus, at the moment, has no general attraction to me, but the physical attraction hasn't gone anywhere. For this, I have, what may be a delusion, she may become interested in me again if I dropped off the face of the Earth.

I am sure there is a collective eye roll here whenever I post in this thread. I am sure, however, many of you can attest to, at one point in your life, meeting a woman for whom you have these inexplicable feelings whenever you are in her presence. Once these feelings have reign over a man, they lead him to do all stupid $hit and entertain baseless conjectures.

It's not like they "decide" to be repulsed either. When you are being treated with low respect, lower treatment and being forced in "friend" box and you keep acting like a boyfriend it tends to diminish her respect and view of your value.

The best thing you can do when you get into a situation like this where you once had attraction and good times is to pull all the way out, find another babe who IS attracted to you and who likes you to spend most of your time with. It' be best if you actually enjoy sex with this other babe.

Later on, the babe who lost interest will come sniffing around, but you have to keep your options open and you cannot just jump the one that you "want" to the top of the totem pole because you will be stuck where you are today.

I think if you where having sex with the old one, is to frame that if you guys are dealing that you are having sex. That's the entire point. She should not be wasting your time outside of this.

 

[Tictac]

Wants to be just friends. What should I say?

Just say 'no', not interested in that.

 

[Atom Smasher]

Women respect and understand one thing in a man:

"Zero Fvcks Given"

When a woman knows she can affect a man emotionally at will, all is lost. She reviles that. A man who is respected by women demonstrates that something as insignificant as a little girl can't ruffle his feathers. This is attractive to women. They want to chase a spirit if independence.

Think of it this way. Would she go to a movie where she knows the plot and the ending in full detail beforehand? No, she wants to ride a series of emotions and be surprised at the very end. In your movie, she already knows the ending. She has you on a hook and can reel you in or let you go at any time. There is zero suspense for her. The very reason for the movie is the thrill of the unknown.

That's why it's Game Over and you should move on.

 

[casanova_goat]

Women respect and understand one thing in a man:

"Zero Fvcks Given"

When a woman knows she can affect a man emotionally at will, all is lost. She reviles that. A man who is respected by women demonstrates that something as insignificant as a little girl can't ruffle his feathers. This is attractive to women. They want to chase a spirit if independence.

Think of it this way. Would she go to a movie where she knows the plot and the ending in full detail beforehand? No, she wants to ride a series of emotions and be surprised at the very end. In your movie, she already knows the ending. She has you on a hook and can reel you in or let you go at any time. There is zero suspense for her. The very reason for the movie is the thrill of the unknown.

That's why it's Game Over and you should move on.

Yeah but what if this Summer she went to see another movie I star in, one where she is not quite sure of the ending?

 

[Atom Smasher]

Won't work. Once a woman forms an opinion of a man it virtually never changes. She can't become re-attracted.

There is only one ending... her having you wrapped around her finger. You're already there friend. It's like falling through a trap door. You can't come back.

 

[Atom Smasher]

You are an orbiter, a "partial" boyfriend. You feed her ego in some areas but she doesn't see you as fit to be her lover. She'll string you along until she meets a guy who gives her the tingles.

She may even WANT to like you more than she does. The simple truth is that she doesn't feel the necessary spark.

I always say, there is no such thing as a girl who is hard to read. An interested girl makes it known.

 

[casanova_goat]

You are an orbiter, a "partial" boyfriend. You feed her ego in some areas but she doesn't see you as fit to be her lover. She'll string you along until she meets a guy who gives her the tingles.

She may even WANT to like you more than she does. The simple truth is that she doesn't feel the necessary spark.

I always say, there is no such thing as a girl who is hard to read. An interested girl makes it known.

Do you think at any point see may have felt the "tingle" with me? She seemed pretty interested earlier on, not surprisingly it was before my interest ramped up.

 

[kenpiffyjr]

I can't agree with that. We always talk about how females are in the moment constantly.

This spark that's being spoken of has a lot of factors going with it. We can't say women are hypergamous and care about men's SMV level...tell cats to fall back and extract attention, and then treat women like these things aren't able to be maneuvered and overnight celebrities aren't being hit up by past chicks that turned them down.

Women are impressionable and little girls deep inside. Impressions can change given the right formula.

Should a guy like Kanye who was friend zoned by Kim Kardashian even have entertained Kim after her 80th divorce? No. But Kanyes SMV level shot up as her value in herself shot down. Is she really in love with him? Who knows? But what's "in love" to females when it's not even reality to them in the first place?

 

[kenpiffyjr]

OP:

I feel like with the right formula...fall back, extract all feelings from her, improve your SMV by improving your confidence, body, money, and gain attention from other females that are at or beyond her level...you can get her in the future.

But my question is this: why would you want her? Why would you want her when she doesn't want you now? Look in the mirror and ask yourself these things.

 

[casanova_goat]

OP:
But my question is this: why would you want her? Why would you want her when she doesn't want you now? Look in the mirror and ask yourself these things.

Valid question. Like women can't help whom they are attracted to, nor can I. Despite all the stuff I've recounted here, I actually like her personality. Naturally, I find her beautiful and I feel alive when I am with her. I need to forget these things, though.

But, it's hard to vilify her for not wanting me, what woman wouldn't lose interest when a guy became as attached as I did? Her actions are the result of my actions.

 

[casanova_goat]

I do have another woman in my life, call her girl B. My frame with girl B is the complete opposite of girl A (the chick of this thread).

Girl B is seemingly hanging on my every text and dissecting my every action, like I have with Girl A. She is frustrated she "can't figure me out" and said I am "sweet then fall off the face of the Earth" (only a few days had elapsed since we last spoke to each other).

Girl B and I dated for the first time in December. After the holidays, she expressed her interest in a second date and, though I was not necessarily disinclined, another date did not come to fruition. Until I ran into her at a coffeeshop on St. Patrick's Day and asked her to get a drink later. We met up then, on Saturday, she proposed meeting up and we did. The first two dates, she only gave me her cheek at the end. The third date, different story. She was really tipsy and touching me all over and we made out vigorously. She invited me back to her place to "cuddle" and I declined. She thanked me the following morning for not taking advantage of her and said I showed a really sexy side -- with all the making out stuff and touching, I guess.

The problem is, my interest in Girl B is about 75%, whereas with Girl A it is damn near 100%. I don't want to string along Girl B nor, as tempting as it is, exploit her for my gain with Girl A. I don't want to use her for sex because I sense she wants some more serious than I am capable of giving to her.

My friends think Girl B is more attractive than Girl A -- but I'm more drawn to Girl A.

It's really a sad reality. I have genuine feelings for Girl A, give her my best side, and, as a result, my frame with her is awful. Meanwhile, with Girl B I am mysterious and aloof and manifest low interest, yet, as a result, my frame could not be better.

I only want to invest my time in a girl I give a fvck about. What comes with giving a fvck is betraying how much you give a fvck.