Want to upgrade to something serious

[Gamisch]

Update on this - went with my gut have not done any sort of "exclusive" talk. I've just been doing the same thing since day 1 because I know it works. But I need some input.

The last few weeks have been a bit odd. A few curveballs:

1) She talks about other guys often, usually very subtly, other times overtly. For instance: mentioning a couple guys hitting on her/asking her out, mentioning getting flaked on at x location (tried to say it was from months ago), and even mentioned being dissatisfied with the way a guy had sex with her (kept it incredibly vague as to when/who it was with). I believe I've handled all of these **** tests quite well; whenever she talks she about the guys it's with disdain, but I play them up and take their side instead, and don't really show much interest (and deep down I really don't care very much).

2) A couple weeks ago she cancelled on our weekly Sat hangout (hung out Sunday instead) to spend the night somewhere with her friend at the beach (she said "my friend" not "a friend" and of course slipped it in casually that it was a girl). Totally could have been a dude, who knows. The next day she was super affectionate and the sex was still great. Whatever.

3) Her texts also seem a bit less enthusiastic, though that may just be her style, only for the first month did she convey much excitement through via text. Either way, I'm probably responding too her too much. And last night she edged away from me to the other side of the bed after sex instead of cuddling up to me and she left fairly briskly without kissing me after she left. She also seems to be too comfortable to laugh or poke fun at me, though I still tease her a lot too so it's not really one sided like that. Either way I'm not really letting her chase enough and am probably too available; and I still feel a constant battle to maintain frame and deal with occasional **** tests.

Otherwise things are good. Sex is fantastic (raw doggin every time and she's not even on BC) and she's affectionate and cooks me things. Asks me to join her for future events. Good conversations. Still very much enjoy spending time with her. I've also had a cute side chick this whole time and did just bang a cute thick blonde girl last week and am still talking to new women etc. And still have a Spain trip planned with a legit 9/10 Eastern European chick.

Anyway - I cannot really tell if there is another guy in the picture of if she's just testing me (or both). At first I thought she was growing tired of being "strung along" and me not committing and actually thought I was being too aloof/distant, but her recent behavior obviously suggests otherwise. I can tell something is wrong in my gut.

Here's my predicament: I reserved a hotel for a short trip next week and it's too late to cancel. If this behavior gets worse, that's the last thing I'd want to do is reward her. Any suggestions on what to do from now till then? Thinking about pulling back a lot, might even cancel on our weekend hangout tomorrow. I've also already mentally accepted the possibility of walking away and come up with good, legit reasons she's not right for me.

Sounds like a fwb situation to me bro.

Your OP was way more positive then your follow up post. Someone also mentioned you shouldn't stimulate her to see other people and in your opening post it wasnt clear whether she did or didn't. Now you say she a actually had sex with some dude and more importantly, been flaked on (by another one?). We all know the flaking guy flaked her for another woman, which is quite a powerful tool to make her wheel spin.

My experience when a LTR started was 2 people who really liked each other and progressed naturally into the LTR. Just the two of us. Maybe other dj,s are more experienced coming from a scenario where you both see other people and decide to cut them. But that doesn't sound like a healthy foundation to me. The moment she brought up other dudes I would completely let go of the exclusivity option, but maybe I am just old school.

Spinning plates costs money, but this situation in the long run might cost you alot of peace of mind. Giving the fact you cant cancel the hotel , just go on vacation with her and have fun, Great example of you going to have fun and simply taking her with you ,that's it.

Some DJ,s tell you to move fast and make it exclusive, so you might give it a try. But if you were my close friend I would ask you why you even want a girl as your gf while you know she is actively dating other people.You have multiple options ,why dont you pick the one that makes your life the easiest and is most dedicated to you??

Your not even in a LTR with her and trouble already began . Maybe she'll behave better once you label it, but I tend to agree with the guys here who say you are also about to lose frame when you push for exclusivity.

I am really curious how this situation will end up.

 

[Gamisch]

I wanna add , your 3rd paragraph shows you already walking on eggshells. She put you in the feminine role (and haven't we all been there as men?). The lack of cuddling, the poking ect. She got you overthinking her actions while you didn't even put your honour on her yet ( made her your GF). Could get ALOT worse and you know that!

What about the cute side girl?

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

Sounds like a fwb situation to me bro.

Your OP was way more positive then your follow up post. Someone also mentioned you shouldn't stimulate her to see other people and in your opening post it wasnt clear whether she did or didn't. Now you say she a actually had sex with some dude and more importantly, been flaked on (by another one?). We all know the flaking guy flaked her for another woman, which is quite a powerful tool to make her wheel spin.

My experience when a LTR started was 2 people who really liked each other and progressed naturally into the LTR. Just the two of us. Maybe other dj,s are more experienced coming from a scenario where you both see other people and decide to cut them. But that doesn't sound like a healthy foundation to me. The moment she brought up other dudes I would completely let go of the exclusivity option, but maybe I am just old school.

Spinning plates costs money, but this situation in the long run might cost you alot of peace of mind. Giving the fact you cant cancel the hotel , just go on vacation with her and have fun, Great example of you going to have fun and simply taking her with you ,that's it.

Some DJ,s tell you to move fast and make it exclusive, so you might give it a try. But if you were my close friend I would ask you why you even want a girl as your gf while you know she is actively dating other people.You have multiple options ,why dont you pick the one that makes your life the easiest and is most dedicated to you??

Your not even in a LTR with her and trouble already began . Maybe she'll behave better once you label it, but I tend to agree with the guys here who say you are also about to lose frame when you push for exclusivity.

I am really curious how this situation will end up.

Doesn't feel like it's a FWB thing at all, and trust me I know what those are like. We do everything a couple would do. And yeah, I don't know if the sex with the other dude was recent or what: she had actually mentioned it a month ago as well in the same context (how guys are afraid to hurt her during sex). So maybe I interpreted it the wrong way; she didn't straight up say "I had sex with a guy recently" her wording was extremely vague about it both times she mentioned it.

It's definitely possible that the initial groundrules I laid out 3 months ago about seeing other people backfired and maybe she's gotten a taste of what OLD can offer. I got the impression she wasn't the type to sleep around, but who the hell knows (she was worried about STDs after we had sex...and she's never been on BC).

I will be seeing her tomorrow. I think I am going to just lay out my thoughts and be honest (but tactful). I am tired of us both skirting around the situation we're in. Whatever happens happens. I'll give an update later if something changes.

I wanna add , your 3rd paragraph shows you already walking on eggshells. She put you in the feminine role (and haven't we all been there as men?). The lack of cuddling, the poking ect. She got you overthinking her actions while you didn't even put your honour on her yet ( made her your GF). Could get ALOT worse and you know that!

What about the cute side girl?

Yeah I see your point and if her behavior in the past week is any indication of what to expect I'm not thrilled, but it's still too early to make sense of it since it's such a recent development. Could be other factors as well. Either way, there is definitely some hampster spinning on my end and I may be reading into things a bit too much.

Also...the side chick is great for a FWB thing but we have little in common. We can have pleasant conversation but we have only ever watched Euphoria and banged so far. The reason I'm so into this main chick is because we have a lot in common (especially mindset/attitude) and we have natural chemistry that's quite rare for me.

 

[typical]

Doesn't feel like it's a FWB thing at all, and trust me I know what those are like. We do everything a couple would do. And yeah, I don't know if the sex with the other dude was recent or what: she had actually mentioned it a month ago as well in the same context (how guys are afraid to hurt her during sex). So maybe I interpreted it the wrong way; she didn't straight up say "I had sex with a guy recently" her wording was extremely vague about it both times she mentioned it.

It's definitely possible that the initial groundrules I laid out 3 months ago about seeing other people backfired and maybe she's gotten a taste of what OLD can offer. I got the impression she wasn't the type to sleep around, but who the hell knows (she was worried about STDs after we had sex...and she's never been on BC).

I will be seeing her tomorrow. I think I am going to just lay out my thoughts and be honest (but tactful). I am tired of us both skirting around the situation we're in. Whatever happens happens. I'll give an update later if something changes.




Yeah I see your point and if her behavior in the past week is any indication of what to expect I'm not thrilled, but it's still too early to make sense of it since it's such a recent development. Could be other factors as well. Either way, there is definitely some hampster spinning on my end and I may be reading into things a bit too much.

Also...the side chick is great for a FWB thing but we have little in common. We can have pleasant conversation but we have only ever watched Euphoria and banged so far. The reason I'm so into this main chick is because we have a lot in common (especially mindset/attitude) and we have natural chemistry that's quite rare for me.

She's playing you bro, it's that simple. She is not LTR material her behaviour has already deviated enough to cause you to doubt her. A woman that wants to be in a relationship with a man has a VASTLY different pattern of behaviour than what you've spoken about.

Also in regards to "Sh!t" tests, all the LTR's I have had progressed naturally into commitment and then faded naturally due to different life goals (mainly due to myself wanting more from my sporting and business), there have been 3 of them over the last 15 years, I am still very close to all of them and they would still drop everything and jump back onboard if I ever hinted at the possibility that I wanted to get married and have a family. Not once did any of these women dare to "Test" me in a way that could come across as disrespectful. Yes we had small disagreements but they always came back to "make things right". It is a very powerful position to be in and when you get this type of obedience it will show you what "Frame" and "Dominance" actually are, you also have the added responsibility to not become a tyrant because in essence this type of overarching "Dominant" relationship is what nearly all women are after, they are their weakest when they open up like this.

I know the above sounds like mumbo jumbo rubbish BUT I'm sure somewhere along your journey you've had this experience, this is that type of woman that you choose to as LTR and perhaps Wife material, no prolonged drama no bs no silly games because you are something she knows deep down is very hard to find and she will do her very best not to mess it up. Just don't let go to your head and affect your ego.

I would take a few steps back and continue to just "have fun" and judge her by actions, your actions should be enough to tell her subconsciously that "Yes woman I'm interested in you" you don't need to verbalise it, at this point she decides if you're Mr. Right or just another notch count for her.

I know in this modern world everyone talks about "communication" and "talking" in a relationship or budding relationship. IMHO every time I've been to "Verbal" I have lost some of my frame and some of the power balance to the women in the interaction. Saying less then needed and meaning more with the select few words you do choose to speak is a greatly superior strategy.

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

She's playing you bro, it's that simple. She is not LTR material her behaviour has already deviated enough to cause you to doubt her. A woman that wants to be in a relationship with a man has a VASTLY different pattern of behaviour than what you've spoken about.

Also in regards to "Sh!t" tests, all the LTR's I have had progressed naturally into commitment and then faded naturally due to different life goals (mainly due to myself wanting more from my sporting and business), there have been 3 of them over the last 15 years, I am still very close to all of them and they would still drop everything and jump back onboard if I ever hinted at the possibility that I wanted to get married and have a family. Not once did any of these women dare to "Test" me in a way that could come across as disrespectful. Yes we had small disagreements but they always came back to "make things right". It is a very powerful position to be in and when you get this type of obedience it will show you what "Frame" and "Dominance" actually are, you also have the added responsibility to not become a tyrant because in essence this type of overarching "Dominant" relationship is what nearly all women are after, they are their weakest when they open up like this.

I know the above sounds like mumbo jumbo rubbish BUT I'm sure somewhere along your journey you've had this experience, this is that type of woman that you choose to as LTR and perhaps Wife material, no prolonged drama no bs no silly games because you are something she knows deep down is very hard to find and she will do her very best not to mess it up. Just don't let go to your head and affect your ego.

I would take a few steps back and continue to just "have fun" and judge her by actions, your actions should be enough to tell her subconsciously that "Yes woman I'm interested in you" you don't need to verbalise it, at this point she decides if you're Mr. Right or just another notch count for her.

I know in this modern world everyone talks about "communication" and "talking" in a relationship or budding relationship. IMHO every time I've been to "Verbal" I have lost some of my frame and some of the power balance to the women in the interaction. Saying less then needed and meaning more with the select few words you do choose to speak is a greatly superior strategy.

Thing is this change in her behavior was very sudden. Like, literally the past 5 days. Nothing unusual before that. Up until this point, I never once doubted her actions and it was obvious she was into me in the way you described.

I may also be overanalyzing things and presenting them in a way that doesn't paint an accurate picture. For instance I'm still not even sure if she's really **** testing me at all I may just be filtering everything through the lens of "game" in an almost autistic way. I have always overanalyzed relationships and felt doubt, even with friends and family. I'm not a trusting person and assume the worst in someone until proven otherwise. So maybe this is partly my own interpretation and all I'm doing is creating a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I'll see how she acts tomorrow and if it feels right I'm just going to have a little talk with her about our situation. Not "communicate my feelings for her" and have verbal diarrhea beta **** like that. We'll see how it goes. Going to do more interesting **** before hand and show up late.

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

I think so too. There is a saying "be careful what you wish for" which may apply here.

I posted this earlier but since you were the one to set these rules (no commitment, see and fvck others), if you now want to upgrade to something serious you need to tell her.

If you had not set those rules, I might agree that she should be asking you to be exclusive but come on man, unless she's a woman with little to no value, or self esteem, she's not going to, not after you set the rules.

She's actually being compliant by following your rules, your lead, your frame, but now that you want more, her compliance doesn't suit you?

You can't have it both ways man.

To clarify, during our first date, I said you should see other people in the beginning (to get contrast and know you're making the right choice), and I never actually brought that up again.

After our 2nd date when we had sex, she was apprehensive - said she wasn't the type sleep around and thought I was only looking for a casual thing. I explained to her I wasn't looking for casual things, but do not like to jump right into anything serious off the bat either. Basically I just said I want it to progress naturally without labelling it and I was actually fairly ambigious because it was way too early to set expectations.

The only thing I explicity said was that, starting out, we should probably not see each other more than once a week to avoid getting attached and we shouldn't over communicate on our phones. I never explicitly reiterated "let's agree to see other people" and I certainly did not encourage her in any way to do so...I think it was simply assumed based off my earlier comment on the 1st date. For some reason she interpreted all of these things as "rules" even though I did not explicitly state them as such.

So now, I think what is likely going on is she's fed up with me not approaching this subject again. Not long ago she asked me lots of questions about long-term goals/compatibility and obviously was screening me up and was likely doing so in the hopes I'd bring this up again. She is fairly unassertive and a people pleaser. She even at one point mentioned she was afraid to text me more often, because I told her I don't like over communicating with people...clearly did not like these "rules" I setup which I tried to explain were not set in stone, but mostly left it alone.

And I think her recent behavior could be explained in this context: she's fed up with the games and ambiguity so she's pulling some sort of dread game thing to force me to address this.

So yes, to your last comment: I do see your point, I defined it this way, and she's doing what we agreed to. I genuinely think she'll be relieved that I bring this up.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

To clarify, during our first date, I said you should see other people in the beginning (to get contrast and know you're making the right choice), and I never actually brought that up again.

After our 2nd date when we had sex, she was apprehensive - said she wasn't the type sleep around and thought I was only looking for a casual thing. I explained to her I wasn't looking for casual things, but do not like to jump right into anything serious off the bat either. Basically I just said I want it to progress naturally without labelling it and I was actually fairly ambigious because it was way too early to set expectations.

The only thing I explicity said was that, starting out, we should probably not see each other more than once a week to avoid getting attached and we shouldn't over communicate on our phones. I never explicitly reiterated "let's agree to see other people" and I certainly did not encourage her in any way to do so...I think it was simply assumed based off my earlier comment on the 1st date. For some reason she interpreted all of these things as "rules" even though I did not explicitly state them as such.

So now, I think what is likely going on is she's fed up with me not approaching this subject again. Not long ago she asked me lots of questions about long-term goals/compatibility and obviously was screening me up and was likely doing so in the hopes I'd bring this up again. She is fairly unassertive and a people pleaser. She even at one point mentioned she was afraid to text me more often, because I told her I don't like over communicating with people...clearly did not like these "rules" I setup which I tried to explain were not set in stone, but mostly left it alone.

And I think her recent behavior could be explained in this context: she's fed up with the games and ambiguity so she's pulling some sort of dread game thing to force me to address this.

So yes, to your last comment: I do see your point, I defined it this way, and she's doing what we agreed to. I genuinely think she'll be relieved that I bring this up.

This is a common thing women tend to do if they don't have clarity...they will either constantly bring up a subject over and over again searching for clarity from a man or they will go a roundabout way and bring up other topics very close to that without explicitly bringing that up and hope you revisit the topic again on your own while talking about the other things...also like she is giving you an easy segway into that topic...

In both cases they will get frustrated over time if they continuously bring this up in either way and clarity has not been given.

 

[Murk]

Same advice as your last thread, you still haven’t had the exclusivity chat that you want, you told her to see other people.

Maybe wait a few more months to hand deliver her onto chads 8 incher?

Keep us posted.

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

Yesterday went well. Honestly don't even need to get into details...I was hamstering over this enough as it is. Probably need to chill out a bit.

Honestly, as much as I know it's normally delusional to say this, she is genuinely much different than most women I've met in my life. I've been talking to way more foreign chicks lately for this reason...makes me realize how dull, entitled, and bat**** crazy most American women are.

She certainly does employ some occasional light "female game" but it's nothing on the level I was alluding to. She is definitely a smart cookie too.

 

[Ignorance is not bliss]

Update on this - went with my gut have not done any sort of "exclusive" talk. I've just been doing the same thing since day 1 because I know it works. But I need some input.

The last few weeks have been a bit odd. A few curveballs:

1) She talks about other guys often, usually very subtly, other times overtly. For instance: mentioning a couple guys hitting on her/asking her out, mentioning getting flaked on at x location (tried to say it was from months ago), and even mentioned being dissatisfied with the way a guy had sex with her (kept it incredibly vague as to when/who it was with). I believe I've handled all of these **** tests quite well; whenever she talks she about the guys it's with disdain, but I play them up and take their side instead, and don't really show much interest (and deep down I really don't care very much).

2) A couple weeks ago she cancelled on our weekly Sat hangout (hung out Sunday instead) to spend the night somewhere with her friend at the beach (she said "my friend" not "a friend" and of course slipped it in casually that it was a girl). Totally could have been a dude, who knows. The next day she was super affectionate and the sex was still great. Whatever.

3) Her texts also seem a bit less enthusiastic, though that may just be her style, only for the first month did she convey much excitement through via text. Either way, I'm probably responding too her too much. And last night she edged away from me to the other side of the bed after sex instead of cuddling up to me and she left fairly briskly without kissing me after she left. She also seems to be too comfortable to laugh or poke fun at me, though I still tease her a lot too so it's not really one sided like that. Either way I'm not really letting her chase enough and am probably too available; and I still feel a constant battle to maintain frame and deal with occasional **** tests.

Otherwise things are good. Sex is fantastic (raw doggin every time and she's not even on BC) and she's affectionate and cooks me things. Asks me to join her for future events. Good conversations. Still very much enjoy spending time with her. I've also had a cute side chick this whole time and did just bang a cute thick blonde girl last week and am still talking to new women etc. And still have a Spain trip planned with a legit 9/10 Eastern European chick.

Anyway - I cannot really tell if there is another guy in the picture of if she's just testing me (or both). At first I thought she was growing tired of being "strung along" and me not committing and actually thought I was being too aloof/distant, but her recent behavior obviously suggests otherwise. I can tell something is wrong in my gut.

Here's my predicament: I reserved a hotel for a short trip next week and it's too late to cancel. If this behavior gets worse, that's the last thing I'd want to do is reward her. Any suggestions on what to do from now till then? Thinking about pulling back a lot, might even cancel on our weekend hangout tomorrow. I've also already mentally accepted the possibility of walking away and come up with good, legit reasons she's not right for me.

Sounds like monkey branching. She's comparing you to her other suitors.
Hot, cold, hot, cold.
Dude, seriously put a condom on. That's a huge risk you're taking.

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

Sounds like monkey branching. She's comparing you to her other suitors.
Hot, cold, hot, cold.
Dude, seriously put a condom on. That's a huge risk you're taking.

We've been banging without a condom for a while and we both already had STD tests. It's not a risk for pregnancy if the girl has regular cycles and you pullout. Just gotta be careful during ovulation. You can nut inside a girl before she's on her period and the chances of pregnancy are virtually zero unless her cycle is a total cluster****.

 

[Gamisch]

We've been banging without a condom for a while and we both already had STD tests. It's not a risk for pregnancy if the girl has regular cycles and you pullout. Just gotta be careful during ovulation. You can nut inside a girl before she's on her period and the chances of pregnancy are virtually zero unless her cycle is a total cluster****.

At least make sure she is on birth control bro...

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

At least make sure she is on birth control bro...

She's not the first girl I've done this with. Never had any issues before. Even if they're ovulating if you pullout they cannot get pregnant. Precum does not contain sperm unless you had a recent ejaculation in which case there will be residual sperm in your vas deferens. In that case, I wrap up.

 

[Murk]

She's not the first girl I've done this with. Never had any issues before. Even if they're ovulating if you pullout they cannot get pregnant. Precum does not contain sperm unless you had a recent ejaculation in which case there will be residual sperm in your vas deferens. In that case, I wrap up.

I mean, I’ve done the same in the past but seeing someone else write it makes me realise how dumb it is. Pullout doesn’t always work, also women can get pregnant at any point in their cycle is just less likely outside the fertile window.

Yes it’s very hot to bareback a chick who isnt on the pill and is fertile, in fact I’m getting hard while typing this, but it’s very stupid get her on the pill or stop nutting inside this fertile womb. Your luck will run out.

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

Called up a close friend of mine at 1am, super sharp dude and knows women better than anyone. He revealed to me what's going on.

Might repeat a few of the things I wrote already. Yes, this is long, I'm not forcing anyone to read it.

What I said in the OP might not really be relevant anymore. I don't think my whole "lets see other people" from the start has anything to do with anything, because it was only brought up once and certainly never laid out as a rule or expectation.

-

So as I said earlier, 3 weeks ago this girl cancels our normal Sat hangout to go visit her "friend" at the beach. When we hung out on on Sunday, she told me she stayed the night and that it was a girl (all of this info was mentioned by her in bits and pieces over the course of the weekend not all at once). At the time, I assumed it was dude, and genuinely didn't care too much. I had sex with 2 other women myself that week.

Looking back now, ever since that point, her behavior has changed for the worse. Most individual "infractions" seemed trivial on their own, but after remembering all of them, it's alarming.

A few days after that sleepover with her alledged female friend - her "friend" started giving her adderall which she had talked about wanting after getting diagnosed with ADD. She later stated this was the same friend as before.

First thing I noticed: Her texts started becoming less enthusiastic. Response time didn't change, but didn't seem to want to convey any effort. For instance: Asked her to hangout, she replies with "yes". Tell her I reserved a ****in hotel for a trip? Her response "great". More texts like that point on.

Weekday night: I called her around 8 on a weekday night asking to hangout to which she said she was with her going out with her "friend". Next thing she sends me a photo of something in her home.

Weekend: she laughed when I orgasmed rather early (in an almost psychotic sounding laugh).

Next weekday night: I ask her to hangout and she says "Yes" then "I'm free after x time"). When she showed up, later than I expected, the night itself was also off. She edged away from me to the other side of the bed and either didn't cuddle once or only did very briefly when we were done. Later, she laughed in the same psychotic way, for misunderstanding something she was trying to say. At the end of the night she left at only 11pm not long after we banged, and didn't even seem to want to kiss goodnight (didn't try, she left too hastily).

Last weekend (big story ahead): At this point I was seriously convinced something was up, but because it was so sudden I couldn't seem to grasp why. I say I'm going to play tennis w/ friends and come over after. I let her know when I start, around 1pm, and then text her around 2:30pm saying I'll be like 10 min. I showup around 2:50. Buzz twice, nothing. Wait a few minutes, then call her, no response. Then she texts me "Sorry I was in the shower" "Are you here" and buzzes me in a min later. I come up, she keeps showering. Then she spends probably 30, maybe 40 min in the bathroom, mostly drying her hair from what I could hear, going into her room, and generally dawdling around. At one point she literally claimed she "forgot I was here".

Finally I have her sit down by me and I mention I don't really feel the need to see other women and I'd like her not to see anyone else (yes I know that was a mistake but at that point it was moot). She didn't have much to say, but she tacitly agreed, and said she isn't seeing anyone. Without pressing at all, she said she went on dates for a while at first, and was seeing a guy alongside me but cut things out with him 3 weeks ago (this same guy who she mentioned twice for being too meek in bed).

I see some of her clothes lying out to dry, including a french maid outfit I told her to buy a couple months back. She mentioned something about her bed only having 1 pillow in the room, and when I ask why she says it was because her "friend" stayed the night. Of course, slips it in that it's a girl. At one point, when talking about her "friend", she may have even said "he said" and quickly corrected to she, but I may have imagined it

In my head I'm thinking...why would she even tell me all this unless she was being sincere? What would be gained from pretending a girl slept over, especially when she didn't even need to tell me that someone was over to begin with? If she wanted to hide something, wouldn't she just say she had a quiet night in?

The rest night went well, had probably some of the best sex we've had yet, somehow. Seemed affectionate again. Though the physical contact did scale back again later in the night.

-

You might be wondering how I didn't notice these signs. Thing is, the first ~10 weeks were great. No issues, period. She chased, and constantly complimented me and always mentioned how horny I made her. Probably the best sex I've ever had. Even had good conversation, seemingly real and authentic conversation that you don't often come across. We planned out all sorts of trips. She invited me to a wedding in England, and to visit her home country in Europe. I felt a genuine, strong connection with her, which is rare. I felt like I could trust her - she left her phone out right in front of me site long periods of time, and even gave me her phone password and would let me use her phone for GPS or something. Again I'm thinking to myself - how could anyone be untrustworthy be so transparent? Clearly she had nothing to hide, right? (no, I didn't snoop).

Anyway, now, I'm going to call her and tell her to come over today after work. I'm going to lay it out and say that I feel like something is wrong, and first say "is there anything you want to tell me?" I will not judge you. If she says nothing, I won't start accusing, but instead say something like "I know something is wrong. If you do not tell me that means you do not respect me, and this relationship cannot continue."

Honestly at this point I want resolution more than anything. The issue is not losing her. I will get over it. The issue is the deception, and what I have to assume is monkey branching in the works. If she had actually told me she was ****ing another guy still, I could deal with it, though her recent offputting behavior is actually a bigger issue than the guy. Either way, it doesn't bode well so I might as well end it on my terms.

My friend suggested I tell her something honest in order to make her more likely to want to reciprocate honesty back herself, so maybe that will work. Anyone have suggestions for how to actually attempt some resolution? I am strongly tempted to just ghost like I always do, but just for once, I'd prefer to see if I can get her to explain herself. This was already a big learning experience for me.



In the mean time I may invite my side chick to the non refundable trip I booked...

Oh and by the way...first few nights I sleptover at her place I had nightmares that she was in actuality a total psychotic ****. I guess the unconscious really does know best.



tl;dr palpable gut feeling from her ****ty behavior and going to break it off. Trust your gut.

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

My first thought when reading your last post was that she IS "seeing" someone else, but it's not a man, it's her female friend.

Not that it should matter, you're banging others and considering planning a trip with your side chick.

No judgment, I'm just confused about what the issue is.

You were never in an exclusive relationship, so not getting how she could be monkey branching, there was/is no exclusive relationship to monkey branch from, since you were only casually dating and banging others.

You're making this intense when it doesn't need to be imo. Why not continue as is?

I mean, you're having great sex, you are free to bang others, you've got another chick you're into and want to take a trip with.

Again, I'm confused about what the issue or deception is, but agree if you are serious about wanting to upgrade, you should talk, lay your cards out honestly and sincerely, she should do same. Let chips fall where they may.

The issue is simple actually, her recent behaviors alone (going hot to cold, disrespect) are instantly suspect and may even warrant walking away on their own. Also since this behavior started shortly after that first initial visit, it's not exactly hard to put the pieces together. Honestly the more I think about it, how many women have not 1 but TWO sleepovers with their female friend in the span of 3 weeks (and who suddenly supplies them with Adderall)

Yes, we weren't exclusive, but the disrespect, games, and possible deceit are simply not something I can tolerate even if I demoted/backpedaled to something more casual. If she had said that she was with a guy, I genuinely would not care much, as long as her behavior did not change in the way it did. I was genuinely ready to let go of the other women, but now I'm doing the opposite until proven otherwise.

I admit I definitely ****ed up by a) telling her I wanted exclusivity and b) not dealing with her attitude change.

I am definitely making it intense because my gut is telling me something is wrong. Men have an innate ability to detect when something is fishy in a woman's behavior.

 

[EyeBRollin]

@FlexpertHamilton you’re doing too much bro. I see a ton of errors on your part. This girl is done; you lowered her interest level. I recommend reading the DJ Bible and tightening up for the next chick.

 

[RBK]

I know in this modern world everyone talks about "communication" and "talking" in a relationship or budding relationship. IMHO every time I've been to "Verbal" I have lost some of my frame and some of the power balance to the women in the interaction. Saying less then needed and meaning more with the select few words you do choose to speak is a greatly superior strategy.

Agree with this 1000%. Everytime I brought feelings up everything went to ****. Do not do this. You think logical explanation works with women, IT DOES NOT. THEY DO NOT OPERATE THIS WAY.

Edit. Read you already did it, told you. Lesson learned.

I'd demote this one to plate status with bringing back the cuddling and all the boyfriend **** since she's all over the map.