Vulnerability...Afraid of being a victim

[Psycho`Sexual]

Hello.


(This is going to be a rather lenghty post)


Allow me to introduce myself to those who don't know much about me.


I'm a male, I'm 16, and a sophomore in HighSchool.


I've been on the boards for about a year and a half, and quite frankly, I know my ****.



Well...at least when it comes to picking up a girl.

I attract women all the time, subconsciously. (Unless of course when I initiate contact, that part is conscious.)

So what I'm trying to say is that getting a girl to fall for me is easy, and happens all the time. (even when I dont try for it)

MY problem is with vulnerability. I just CANT put myself in a situation where I might get hurt. I can deal with the possibility of physical pain, although I'm uncomfortable with the situation. The getting 'hurt' I'm talking about is in relationships.



Now, what I say next may make me sound crazy, and I realize that it's an extremely irrational concern.



I think whats stopping me from being in a vulnerable position is my brainwashing as a young child.


My parents, mother specifically, would exploit my trust in order to express their 'parental control' over me. It started off as a somewhat normal relationship, but I adapted to eliminate the unpleasantness, and my mother adapted to ensure her power once more, several times over until it got to where I am now.


Let me give an example.

Let's say I did something she didn't want me to do. Let's say I ate a cookie and spoiled my dinner. (in real life it wasnt with physical aspects, but more so with emotions)

So my mother would yell at me for spoiling my dinner and make me feel horrible. After that, I developed a habit of LYING about what I did


Well, soon enough my mother caught on to the little kiddie lies I tried to pull and started playing along with my story until I ****ed up, then she would scream at me even more.


She would ask me something I did, and knowing that I could tell whether she wanted a yes or no answer from teh way she toned her voice, she would tone her voice to the opposite of what she wanted.


For instance, if she wanted me to do my HW, and to check whether I did it or not, she'd act like this... "You havnt done your homework, HAVE you?"

Even if I HAD done it, I wanted to say 'no' just to please teh beast.

So this only got me to lie even more.

I would tell her whatever I thought she wanted to hear. Unfortunately, it was very easy to fool a 5yr old version of myself into saying something incriminating.


Soon enough, I stopped trusting her completely and avoided any situation in which I HAD to give her a straight answer. Instead of telling her I did something, I completely avoided the topic.

"How was school?" 'Fine.'
"What'd you do?" 'Nothing.'



Also, later on, (like during school for instance) I took almost every necessary precaution to make sure there is not a 'path' for my parents to find out about what I did.


This technique worked, and I was rewarded with the pleasure of not being humiliated, and scared with the possibility of being humiliated and screamed at by my mom. These factors helped stabilize this frame of mind, and it eventually was worked into my ordinary waking state of consciousness.


ordinary meaning my most often used



However, I didnt just stop trusting my parents, I started FEARING my parents, and stopped trusting anyone with anything that is undesirable for my parents to know.


Now, on to my irrational fear about vulnerability.


I am literally afraid of the same 'HAHA, FOOLED YA!' trick my mom used to pull.

I actually fear that if I open up to a person who seems to want to know something about me, once I tell them, they are going to say 'HAHAHA, I was just ****ing around, I could give a rats ass about you, whats more, I'm gonna run to your parents and tell them all this **** you just said!'


The reason I can talk somewhat openly like this now is because...well...were online, you guys have no idea where I am, who I am, or anything else.

I feel its a safe bet that no path can be made back to my parents. However, just in case, I almost NEVER use my real name. (or my full name)


Anyway, my problem with females is leaving myself vulnerable. I mean, vulnerable to ANYTHING.

I can't tell a girl 'I like you,' unless I'm in an altered state of consciousness.


This is a b1tch when it comes to relationships. Relationships are built on trust, and I cant trust anyone enough to even initiate a relationship.


I've had about 4girls VERY interested in starting a romantic relationship with me. I have too many girls to count who 'like' me.


However a sexual or romantic relationship where I am somewhat vulnerable is impossible for me. (right now...maybe you all can help someway...)

You input/solutiuons/flames are highly encouraged.

 

[Omega]

Dont be afraid of rejection. Be afraid of hesitation.

 

[Psycho`Sexual]

I'm not afraid of rejection.


Thats not even in the picture. LOL.



I'm afraid of her leading me on for the sole purpose of getting me to admit something which could be used against me by my parents.


My mom doesnt want me with a girl, so me making it known that I like a girl is an impossibility.


Guys I know talk about chicks they like between each other, ask about dates, brag about ****.

I do not.

Not because I'm afraid of rejection, because I'm afraid of displeasing mom.

 

[Omega]

WTF?

Girl's arent James Bond working for your mom. Chill, your moms not going to find out unless you blatenly flat out tell her.

 

[Psycho`Sexual]

or so you think...

You aren't trained to be paranoid about this type of ****.


I am.

And I also learned to minimize the possibility of her finding out.


You dont know my mom. Shes a very mischevieous character, one who is not above coming to school and spying on me in case anything suspicious is going on.


(for instance if a girl called, or if she saw me flirting with one)

and then she would proceed to scuk the ****ing will to live out of me.


Trust me, that feels a hell of a lot worse than taking a few extra precautions and limiting a few freedoms.

 

[Omega]

Re: or so you think...

Originally posted by Psycho`Sexual
You aren't trained to be paranoid about this type of ****.


I am.

And I also learned to minimize the possibility of her finding out.


You dont know my mom. Shes a very mischevieous character, one who is not above coming to school and spying on me in case anything suspicious is going on.


(for instance if a girl called, or if she saw me flirting with one)

and then she would proceed to scuk the ****ing will to live out of me.


Trust me, that feels a hell of a lot worse than taking a few extra precautions and limiting a few freedoms.

Well it's all in your mind man, seriously. Be cautious but don't take it overboard. TAlk to her, if you really want. Find out why shes so anal about it.

 

[Kineti[C]harm]

Trust me, mothers catch on to it so damn fast....


Anyways, just DON'T CARE about your mothers fits... Act as if you do though so she thinks she's in control....

Regarding fear of getting hurt (commitment/relationship etc) just don't stress it... Just play it as a game until it's no longer If there is ever anything I want to but I'm not quite sure I dare do I trick myself into doing it... I find some elaborate or neanderthal way of kicking my ass into gear.

 

[Kraken]

You've got a deep rooted psychological problem at hand here that only you can figure out. You can't let restrictions in life stop you from living life to the fullest.

Afraid of consequences? Then face them headon and deal with them. You've got to stop hiding and sneaking around one day.

 

[Smile]

To be honest, your a man, grow some balls, whats so bad about your mom being angry anyway? so what, she'll shout at you for a bit? there are a thousand things worse than that. Me and my mom argue all the time, i never agree with anything she says and rearly take her advice on anything, this pisses her off sometimes but to be honest her shouting at me doesnt bother me at all. Why would it bother you? its only a raised voice, raise yours in return, have a good old argument.

 

[Psycho`Sexual]

Cant seem to seperate...

I'm not enough of a seperate entity to where I can just go and disregard everything my mom says.


It would be like you trying to shut off the function to your hand just because you dont like something about it.


I need techniques with which I could seperate from my overbearing parents.

Obviously it IS in my mind, but my mind spent a lot of years being formed by my MOM.



As far as yelling back at my mom...

I don't think I want this bad enough to turn into a screaming monster and act like an animal.

What kind of suggestion is that? You want me to emulate the thing I despise about my mother?

 

[Kraken]

Either you calmly tell her that you're tired of her being overprotective and overcontrolling of you, and that you've grown up, or you scream that at her. Just do it.

Stop being whipped. Be a man.

 

[MrBond007]

My mom sucked the same way...always putting me down and making ME feel bad about it.Well,wehn I was a kid I used to lve her very much.I would even tell her I wanted to marry her.

Well, she put me down so often and my father woudnt do a thing.He didnt beleive what I told him about her because it is frankly unbeleivable.Time passed and in a matter of years, I grew a somewaht pleasing feeling of hatred toward her.I knew she was cheating on my father so when I had the knowledge to, I made my own keylogger and kept her chat logs.

She would take money that my father gave her to buy food for the whole family and put half of it somewhere in the house instead to go out on dates with other men.My father is only here on weekends,for a single day, because he is a trucker and a hard working man.

After years, I could finally avenge myself.My mother typed so many horrible stuff about me, my sister and my father...I printed it and put it in her face.I told her to give me the money she had hidden or I would tell my father about everything.She gave me the money.Little did she know that I had already faxed the whole thing at my father`s office for them to give it to him during that week.

My father threw my mother out of the house.We are both living "together" without my mother and my st upid sister who followed her.I heard they can barely eat because theyve got cigaretts to buy...mwhahahahaha

Strangely,some people wonder why I do not feel safd about this.I feel happier than ever.In fact, I never felt that great since the day I finally deceided I would make her pay someday.

 

[Abbott]

Don't shout loudly at her, but do talk back, and talk firmly. Some people seem to have a fetish with exerting control over people. Or perhaps a childhood trauma of her own that she has never gotten over.

Whatever the reason, you need to make it clear that her behavior is wrong.

I'm not sure how far you can get, given that you're still a minor, living in her house, and most likely without means to be completely independent when you turn 18. But I do know this much: When you finish school for good, or are ever in a situation where you no longer need her support (like winning the lottery, or getting a high paying job), you need to ditch her or at least distance yourself from her.

It's not easy to take, since it's your Mom. But sometimes the people who should act in only your best interest (parents) don't. Your Mom sounds like one of those cases where the parent didn't act in the best interest, whether she meant well, or not (which IS possible).

You have to get away from her, for your own good, your own welfare. I don't like to say things like this, but I'm known for telling it like it is and being blunt, even when it is unpleasant to hear.

Ben

 

[Psycho`Sexual]

What I'm trying now...

Since I made this thread, it has come to my attention that my problem mayb not be of *seperation* from my mother, but rather a unification.


Allow me to explain.


What I have been fretting over is the fact that her views are so different from mine. For instance I like myself around chicks, and she doesnt.

All the while, I was confusing situations for perceptions. And, we were both trying to enforce our own perceptions on each other.


I know realize this is counter-productive and have decided that I will accept the fact that her reality may be different from mine.


Her reality existing parallel to mine does NOT make my reality any less real(for me).



So she can have her own opinion, and trying to enforce it on me only makes me aware of the fact taht she HAS a different opinion.


I will no longer confuse HER opinion with an opinion that I should have.

Shes free to believe that people of opposite genders shouldn't talk with each other until they are 18yrs old, and I'm free to believe interactions between genders is wonderful.




-Namaste

 

[bp1974]

You sound like you've got a good head on your shoulders, I'm sure you'll work this out.

If you're trying to take a step, and find that for whatever reason you can't, then that step is too big. What I'm saying is, break it down into small steps.

I guess overall your aim is something like to be able to trust a woman not to hurt you. Which comes after learning that you can handle whatever's thrown at you. This comes from experience. Nothing else can teach you. Nothing.

So you need to give yourself experiences that show you that you are no longer that child who can be tricked and then hurt.

Here's one you could try. The next time a girl asks you something and you feel that familiar fear and mistrust, take a breath, and say something like, "You know, for reasons I'm not going into right now, I have trouble answering questions like that." This is a small step because you are being honest, you are trusting her with that honesty, and at the same time you are not saying anything that she could hurt you with. If you do this a few times, you'll find it gets easier, and you will begin to feel more trusting of yourself, and maybe take a little more risk next time. Etc.

If that sounds like too much, then you need to take an even smaller step first.

Small steps, small steps. That's all it takes. But you have to take them, or you'll go nowhere. In your own time of course.

 

[Smile]

To be honest, the way your talking it seems to me like you spend far too much time thinking about this, you know what you want to do deep down and you simply have to follow that, regardless of what your initial thoughts tell you.

 

[squirrels]

I don't think your parents were trying to "mind control" you. LOL

I think you just reacted in a completely different way than most people, and it's fudged up your interaction with people. Not your fault, but I think you need to also re-examine your stance on this to see if your parents are to blame, either. It sounds like you took some common parenting stuff and completely mis-interpreted it due to some irrational fear that your parents woudl react more negatively to the response they DIDN'T EXPECT than the one they DIDN'T WANT TO HEAR.

Anyway, this is YOUR psychological problem now, and you need to take ownership of it. It sounds to me like you have some delusions of persecution, man.

Your parents being mad at you is NOT the worst thing that can happen in your life.

 

[Alonso]

Originally posted by squirrels
I don't think your parents were trying to "mind control" you. LOL

I think you just reacted in a completely different way than most people, and it's fudged up your interaction with people. Not your fault, but I think you need to also re-examine your stance on this to see if your parents are to blame, either. It sounds like you took some common parenting stuff and completely mis-interpreted it due to some irrational fear that your parents woudl react more negatively to the response they DIDN'T EXPECT than the one they DIDN'T WANT TO HEAR.

Anyway, this is YOUR psychological problem now, and you need to take ownership of it. It sounds to me like you have some delusions of persecution, man.

Your parents being mad at you is NOT the worst thing that can happen in your life.

Agreed on pretty much all counts.

I can see a scenario in which this guy's mom is some sort of uber-controlling psychotic whom he can't escape.

I can also, much more easily, see a pretty garden-variety set of adolescent (and there's nothing wrong with that when you're 16) neuroses and solipsism.

EVERYONE with the least bit of introspection has at some point been apprehensive about being rejected or vulnerable. You say you can't open up without substances; I don't doubt it's hard -- then have a tasty beverage or two (not twelve), and get some experience opening up. It never gets easy, but it gets easier.

Heck, I'd say ALMOST EVERYONE has had some lingering paranoid fear, when a really good looking girl was into him, that his friends had put her up to it and at any minute everyone was going to jump out and say GOTCHA! I'm sure this has happened, but the number of times girls will actually take the time to elaborately pretend to like you, specifically for the purpose of humiliating you as if you were on Candid Camera or Punk'd is extremely insignificant compared to the number of times you'll FEAR this could be happening. (Girls pretending to like you just so they can get attention, and then abandoning you not with the intention of humiliating you, but just because they got the attention they wanted and are moving on, is a different story).

EVERYONE has had experience with their family not being ready for them to grow up. Anyone who's had a little sister has had experience with feeling that way themselves -- you see your sister with a boyfriend and the first reaction is "no way -- can't have that." But after awhile, he's just some guy around the house and you take it for granted -- most parents will adjust pretty quickly to your growing up too.

EVERYONE has had to, or wanted to, do things their family might not approve of. But I think it's approaching (or not just approaching) paranoid to suspect your classmates of conspiring with your mom in the world's most elaborate (and pointless) espionage scheme.

A good mantra throughout life is "It's not all about me" (or "People aren't thinking about me nearly as much as I think they are.") You deal with what you perceive as your parents' excessive control just as adolescents have for centuries -- by following enough of your parents' rules to preserve peace, and then getting away with whatever else you can beyond that.

It's a characteristic naiive belief of youth that (a) you're the first person to encounter these situations; and (b) "nothing is EVER going to change." My God, you're two years away from being able to be, go, and do absolutely anything you want, even in the worst-case scenario that your mom is truly psycho Joan Crawford and you have absolutely no option but to sneak around for the next two years (which I don't totally believe anyway).

YMMV.

 

[drixsa]

Hey OREO ,

I am dealing with some stuff with my parents as well.

Some lack of trust/lack of love issues with my parents as well.

In your latest post you seem to rationalize what is happening but have yet to come up with a solution.

What you NEED to do is to talk to your mom, alone.

not really for her sake, but for yours. Your feelings are building up and that is not only ruining your relationship between you and her but between you and all.

The stuff you posted in your original post: you need to tell her that and be honest with her about it.

tell her about the way you felt that she was acting and how you changed your actions to make it easier to deal with her.

BUT, you need to be prepaired to listen to what she has to say to YOU. None of us are perfect or 100% victim.

assuming that your mom is not some evil person that wants to see the end of you, she is probably trying to do the best that she can but may be misguided as many parents are.

Working on this is something that is long term and takes time to workout. But i guarentee that it will help you build a deeper more meaningful relationship with your mother.

And let me tell you it will be a lot harder for you to be 'normal' if you have a messed up relationship with a parent.

You have come across mature for your age and that might be hard for your mom to deal with.

I was lucky enough with my parents letting me make my own mistakes.

I also think it would benefit you to learn more about your mother and what she went through, and who she is. Sometimes it can help you understand what she is going through, or what she is trying to teach you.

if you want you know my AIM handle ( i cannot keep track of yours ) but drop me a line and we can share parent stories.

later,

 

[Psycho`Sexual]

My brother

A lot of what I see my mother doing to my brother takes me back to when I was about his age.

If you could see the way my mom acts around people she can boss around...


It's not just about 'me' and some irrational feeling that everyone is plotting against me.


I KNOW logically this is not so, but my mind is taught to react much differently.


Its a reflex, like trying to catch something that is falling, even if its a blade. Or perhaps being taught to supress your urge to piss unless your on the toilet.


You would be surprised how many people COULDNT pee their pants even if they were TRYING to.


IF you could see my mom interacting with my brother on a day to day basis, you would understand what I mean.


She screams and hits him if he does ANYTHING displeasing, he's already at the phase of lying to her and avoiding things some.


I KNOW that she can't physically control me in anyway. If i can kick my dads ass, then I'm sure I can physically restrain my mom.

It's not that.



There is no LOGICAL basis for it. Its just a programmed response I've developed.

Yes it is "mind control" you can't be raised without it, if your parents didnt shape part of your mind during the early years of life, than you would most likely be dead or in a coma.


EVERYONE's mind is somewhat controlled by their parents...


If you disagree then maybe your confusing 'mind control' as used in cartoons with MIND CONTROL of psychology.


squirrels, you want an example of a negative reaction my mom had with my brother?


"Come here!"
*he goes over*

"Here, I knitted you a sweater, try it on."
*he tries it on*its crooked*

"WHAT THE ****!!! iTS CROOKED! YOU DUMB LITTLE ****, YOU PUT IT ON WRONG! TAKE IT OFF!"
*he takes it off cowering*

"LOOK YOU *****! ITS EVEN ON BOTH SIDES!"
*hes about to cry*

"YOU DUMB ****ER, YOU KNOW WHAT THIS MEANS!!? YOU'VE BENT YOUR STUPID SHOULDERS ALREADY! you know what im saying!? YOUR SHOULDERS ARE CROOKED! YOUR A FREAK YOU MORON!"


*MOM STORMS OFF*

now multiply this about 15times throughout the day about food, tv, HW, sitting posture, the way he talks, toys, cleaning up, etc.


Trust me after a few years your going to be scarred as **** of enraging the beast, especially the very much still developing mind of a little child.


She doesnt get mad at you, she get crazy about anything she wasn't expecting.


BP, I like your step by step idea, and I do that already with tiny steps.

But its so off balance when I have a chick drooling after me from being in my class for 1hr30mins.

A part of my problem is my seduction is FAST. while my progress of personal psyche and trust is not.

So by the time I have the chick, I dont even trust her enough to like...catch me if i close my eyes and fall at her.