Vices and the Game

[backbreaker]

good job man keep up the godo work. find some AA meetings by you and try one out. If you don't have any beef with the god thing you will defiantly benefit from it.

 

[jophil28]

I'm on my fourth day clean, I have given up the drinking FOREVER.
I feel quite 'empowered' actually - quite the opposite of what I thought I would feel.

Still working on the smoking.

I found the advice given on this website http://www.spiritualriver.com to be of great benefit - a different approach than the twelve steps.

Zunder. The 12 Step program is by far the most successful. A lot of the other programs promote "controlled drinking" inspite of the abject failure of that approach.

Your next challenge is stay stopped and to resist what we 'insiders' call "stinkin' thinkin". In a few weeks, as you feel better and more in control, you can expect your thoughts to wander towards the possibility that perhaps you were not in as much trouble with alcohol as you really were and you may have "overreacted" by going abstinent. That is the addiction demon trying to drag you back into the booze pit.

"Stinkin thinkin " describes a sneaking belief that perhaps you could "have just one" , and many people in early recovery succumb to the temptation with disasterous results.
The 12 Step program has powerful tools and personal support to help you guard against this.
I don't know about the program you have chosen, however if you do bust and try to resume drinking I would strongly suggest AA as the way to go.

Good luck Kiwi.

 

[Zunder]

Zunder. The 12 Step program is by far the most successful. A lot of the other programs promote "controlled drinking" inspite of the abject failure of that approach.

Your next challenge is stay stopped and to resist what we 'insiders' call "stinkin' thinkin". In a few weeks, as you feel better and more in control, you can expect your thoughts to wander towards the possibility that perhaps you were not in as much trouble with alcohol as you really were and you may have "overreacted" by going abstinent. That is the addiction demon trying to drag you back into the booze pit.

"Stinkin thinkin " describes a sneaking belief that perhaps you could "have just one" , and many people in early recovery succumb to the temptation with disasterous results.
The 12 Step program has powerful tools and personal support to help you guard against this.
I don't know about the program you have chosen, however if you do bust and try to resume drinking I would strongly suggest AA as the way to go.

Good luck Kiwi.

My best friend (and he is a good bloke) refuses to believe I am an alcoholic.
I think the problem is that most people view an alcoholic as one of those scruffy blokes sitting on a park bench with a bottle of gin in a brown paper bag.
My mother described it best: "Zunder - you are a 'social alcoholic' - meaning I don't drink every day but when I do its 'balls to the wall'.
I have tried controlled drinking and it works for a while - but any little upset in my life and and look to defuse it with a bombardment of alcohol down my gizzard.
I really don't know why I am like that - but I know I am and I know my body best.
My best buddy is just going to have to get used to the idea that I won't be sitting down sharing a dozen beers and a bottle of whisky with him anymore.

One more thing that I have noticed to - that "window" of when you feel 10 foot tall and bullet proof with a few drinks in you - well for me lately that window has been getting shorter and shorter. Even after one pint of beer I just don't feel right anymore - it is hard to explain but I guess anyone who has had a drinking problem on this board might understand what I am getting at.

 

[Zunder]

good job man keep up the godo work. find some AA meetings by you and try one out. If you don't have any beef with the god thing you will defiantly benefit from it.

I actually went to a AA meeting early last year.
Three people spoke at lenght - and they all basically said the same thing "God saved them".
If that works for them - the "God" thing, great.
But I just don't believe in God and after hearing their waffle about how "God" saved them - the first thing I wanted to do was go get a drink.
So I don't think AA is for me.

 

[runner83]

My best friend (and he is a good bloke) refuses to believe I am an alcoholic.
I think the problem is that most people view an alcoholic as one of those scruffy blokes sitting on a park bench with a bottle of gin in a brown paper bag.
My mother described it best: "Zunder - you are a 'social alcoholic' - meaning I don't drink every day but when I do its 'balls to the wall'.
I have tried controlled drinking and it works for a while - but any little upset in my life and and look to defuse it with a bombardment of alcohol down my gizzard.
I really don't know why I am like that - but I know I am and I know my body best.
My best buddy is just going to have to get used to the idea that I won't be sitting down sharing a dozen beers and a bottle of whisky with him anymore.

One more thing that I have noticed to - that "window" of when you feel 10 foot tall and bullet proof with a few drinks in you - well for me lately that window has been getting shorter and shorter. Even after one pint of beer I just don't feel right anymore - it is hard to explain but I guess anyone who has had a drinking problem on this board might understand what I am getting at.

Zunder, your description there sounded a lot like me, and I know what you mean.

I don't really have an urge to drink most of the time, but if I get in a situation with family or friends and I think to myself "a couple won't hurt" and before I know it I go overboard.

My father is exactly the same way, and my brother, so maybe it is partly genetic. But that is still no excuse.

I have had a bit to drink since New Years, but not to excess, so am glad I have been able to control it better.

I'm not even old, but also have noticed that the "window" is shorter for me as well. So I won't be cutting it out completely for the year, but cutting down.

That may not be for all, however. Good luck!

 

[jophil28]

I actually went to a AA meeting early last year.
Three people spoke at lenght - and they all basically said the same thing "God saved them".
If that works for them - the "God" thing, great.
But I just don't believe in God and after hearing their waffle about how "God" saved them - the first thing I wanted to do was go get a drink.
So I don't think AA is for me.

Every element of the AA program is psychologically sound including the God thing. The point of believing in a higher power is to accept that your recovery is not dependent on your own willpower. Step 2 and 3 reveal as much.

This is a huge obstacle for most alcoholics because they truly believe that they are all-powerful inspite of the mountain of evidence to the contrary.

Zunder, if you have any moments when you feel "shaky" and you are toying with the thought of having "just one" ,I would urge you to head straight to an AA meeting if only to receive the support to get you though that particular moment.

BTW your "friend" refuses to believe that you are an alcoholic because he does not want to lose a drinking buddy.

 

[backbreaker]

Every element of the AA program is psychologically sound including the God thing. The point of believing in a higher power is to accept that your recovery is not dependent on your own willpower. Step 2 and 3 reveal as much.

This is a huge obstacle for most alcoholics because they truly believe that they are all-powerful inspite of the mountain of evidence to the contrary.

Zunder, if you have any moments when you feel "shaky" and you are toying with the thought of having "just one" ,I would urge you to head straight to an AA meeting if only to receive the support to get you though that particular moment.

BTW your "friend" refuses to believe that you are an alcoholic because he does not want to lose a drinking buddy.

+1

zunder, keep in mind, I'm an atheist, and I was 4 years deep in AA. AA is alot like church. All churches aren't for everyone. All meetings aren't the same. I don't do the meetings either that are all about god and it's basially an hour long bible study session either. You would not let one bad church experience put you off on god, don't let one bad AA experience put you off on AA.

I actually prefer NA to AA ,it's alot more lax. But AA has better big book studies.


The way my sponsor told me is look, step 1, admit you have a problem that you can't control. step 2, believe that if I follow the program that I could be restored to sanity and step 3, just make a commitment to follow all the other steps. that sounds alot better than saying turn my will and my life over to god as i understand him which I was stuck on for like half a year lol. I had to go through 3 sponsors until I found one that "got" me and understood where I was coming from. I had to go to how many...9th street, wolfe street, ualr.. 5 different home groups utnil I found a meeting I could fit into everyday, people who were somewhat like me, who could relate to where I was coming from, and that was by dumb luck (Was screwing a girl in AA and she asked me to come to the meeting with her at 6am, feel in love with the meeting)

I left AA for reasons that I won't get into but i'M still clean. I drink which is why I left, I couldn't stay in and drink at the same time. but drinking is not an issue for me, crack is. But you know what.. if i had any urges at all like that seriously, i"d carry mu butt to a meeting pronto. crap saved my life.


And J28 is rigth again in the sense that, it took me, about.. a good..umm... okay, it took me the entire time in rehab, which was 45 days, to get past step 1. You could not convince me that I was not powerless over this crap. Even though, there wa a mountain of evidence to prove otherwise. I'm sure you can do this alone, or I mean I'm sure it can be done alone. It was very hard for me, someone who was pretty successful in other areas of life, to come off his high horse and humble himself enough to say he couldn't beat this by himself.

Man this is your LIFE we are talking about. NO one is guaranteed X number of screw ups. I saw a guy, I know a guy that has been in rehab 25 times. Last time I checked and that was 2 years ago. probably more now. I know a kid, that was 18, had 1 shot, was lollygagging around, relasped and died with a needle in his arm at the age if 18 years old. Tomorrow isn't promised for any of us. Every time you black out, every time you get that bad drunk and you don't go to jail and you are still healthy and you aren't in DT's count your blessings and most importantly do something before it gets too late. People talk about crack but you know crack and meth, those are just mentally addicting. besides the runs lol, I had no withdraws, and that lasted for like half a day, 3 weeks after my body threw a tempter trandrum becuase it wasn't getting anymore drugs. But the worst I always see in rehab when I used to go visit, not heroin addicts, not crackheads, not meth heads, not pill heads, it's always alcoholics. they get run down through there, like i could not imagine. Then then shakes and stuff ilke that.. man i don't want that to be you while you can help it. nip this **** in the ass if it's serious.


AS far as "gaming" while being clean and sober. You, really have no idea how big a network NA,AA, CA is. it's an "in" with women you never would have had an In with. I went from having 2 friends basically while being normal, after about 8 months in AA, I had at least 100 phone numbers in my phone of men and women, always kept something to do, and did it all clean. going to waffle house, watching a game over here or there, a girl wants to go bowling, we used to go bowling every saturday night, a group of like 10-12 of us, had a freaking blast. it's not all doom and gloom. Out of town trips, first time i ever went on a camping trip was in AA, this thing they did with young adults.. about 200 of us from around the state, 22-23-18 year old slutbuckets lol, god that was fun. I mean there was some drama with it too. you know that many people, you are always helping people out, people are always relapsing, you are usually in something trying to help can't count how many times someone has spent the night at my house. You find the right home group and AA can be a freaking blast. Between AA and the horse track I never had to visit bars, visit clubs to meet women.

 

[Desdinova]

There's two things I noticed when I gave up smoking: My sense of smell had skyrocketed and my erections were fuller & larger. It's actually very relieving to no longer be a slave to the cigarette. My life revolved around when I could have my next smoke break. I no longer have that and no longer think about it. This coming March, I will be 5 years smoke-free. I can't believe it's been that long already!

To quit, I used the book "Allen Carr's Easy Way to Stop Smoking"

As for drinking, I don't have a need for it. I enjoy one drink every once in a while, but don't rely on it to have a good time. I'd rather have a good time sober so I can remember it.

 

[DonJerky]

Good for you Zunder. I haven't had a drink in over 3 years. I'm 26 now. One thought that may help you is:

Don't look at it as a failure on your part that you aren't going to be drinking anymore. That's silly man, as alcohol has no benefits to the body anyway..ZERO. It hurts almost every system in your body as it rips through it, EVERY SINGLE TIME. So look at it instead like you escaped the Matrix. No longer do you have to flock where the sheep flock to get their drug. As the smoking guy was saying, no longer will you be slave to a liquid during social interaction.

You are now more attractive than 99% of men out there and I don't even think that can be debated, congratulations. Quitting alcohol is truly one of the major steps to becoming alpha, as alpha would never compromise his control of a situation for a nanosecond.

 

[Zunder]

Good for you Zunder. I haven't had a drink in over 3 years. I'm 26 now. One thought that may help you is:

Don't look at it as a failure on your part that you aren't going to be drinking anymore. That's silly man, as alcohol has no benefits to the body anyway..ZERO. It hurts almost every system in your body as it rips through it, EVERY SINGLE TIME. So look at it instead like you escaped the Matrix. No longer do you have to flock where the sheep flock to get their drug. As the smoking guy was saying, no longer will you be slave to a liquid during social interaction.

You are now more attractive than 99% of men out there and I don't even think that can be debated, congratulations. Quitting alcohol is truly one of the major steps to becoming alpha, as alpha would never compromise his control of a situation for a nanosecond.

Thanks bro.
I am on day 5 of my abstinence from alcohol.
Still working on the smoking - going to give it a crack at quitting this weekend.
I won't be at a bar - so should make it easier to get through the weekend smokefree.

 

[backbreaker]

Thanks bro.
I am on day 5 of my abstinence from alcohol.
Still working on the smoking - going to give it a crack at quitting this weekend.
I won't be at a bar - so should make it easier to get through the weekend smokefree.

NO.

Keep smoking (seriously)

You never try to quit smoking while trying to quit a substance. it's too stressful. You need a year clean, if that is what you are going for, total abstinence, or at least 6 months before you can think about quitting smokes too.

you are setting yourself up for failure if you try to do both at the same time. it's just too much.

 

[jophil28]

NO.

Keep smoking (seriously)

You never try to quit smoking while trying to quit a substance. it's too stressful. You need a year clean, if that is what you are going for, total abstinence, or at least 6 months before you can think about quitting smokes too.

you are setting yourself up for failure if you try to do both at the same time. it's just too much.

That is exactly right.^^ Listen to BB.

Two powerful addictions cannot, and should not be tackled in a week or even a month.
Zunder, at your age, your addictions have been active for many years. They run deep in your psyche and are strongly entrenched in many ways that you do not understand yet, but you will in years to come.

Allow yourself to clock up some solid sober time before you make an attempt at quitting smoking, otherwise you set yourself up to fail , and by failure we mean failure at quitting smoking and also a probable relapse in your alcohol recovery. With enough stress as a trigger you WILL drink again for relief. Be easy on yourself and avoid stress and drama as much as possible.

Any of the guys here who have mastered alcohol abuse will tell you about the changes that happen to your mind, body and emotions in the first year of abstinence. Give yourself time to adjust and adapt before you make any significant life changes.

There ia a saying in AA (and NA) -
" Alcohol is cunning, baffling and powerful ." and I would add "patient".

You addiction to alcohol is silently waitng to be fed. It will patiently wait until a stressful moment happens to you and then it will plant the thought in your mind that "one drink" will help you through.

Many a good man has succumbed at that moment . THat is why AA members have sponsors - to support you through those challenges.

There are several AA guys here . If you get in trouble post back ASAP.

Good luck Kiwi.

 

[Zunder]

That is exactly right.^^ Listen to BB.

Two powerful addictions cannot, and should not be tackled in a week or even a month.
Zunder, at your age, your addictions have been active for many years. They run deep in your psyche and are strongly entrenched in many ways that you do not understand yet, but you will in years to come.

Allow yourself to clock up some solid sober time before you make an attempt at quitting smoking, otherwise you set yourself up to fail , and by failure we mean failure at quitting smoking and also a probable relapse in your alcohol recovery. With enough stress as a trigger you WILL drink again for relief. Be easy on yourself and avoid stress and drama as much as possible.

Any of the guys here who have mastered alcohol abuse will tell you about the changes that happen to your mind, body and emotions in the first year of abstinence. Give yourself time to adjust and adapt before you make any significant life changes.

There ia a saying in AA (and NA) -
" Alcohol is cunning, baffling and powerful ." and I would add "patient".

You addiction to alcohol is silently waitng to be fed. It will patiently wait until a stressful moment happens to you and then it will plant the thought in your mind that "one drink" will help you through.

Many a good man has succumbed at that moment . THat is why AA members have sponsors - to support you through those challenges.

There are several AA guys here . If you get in trouble post back ASAP.

Good luck Kiwi.

OK Jopers, BB and the rest. Thank you all so much brothers for your support.
I am genuinely excited about chaning my life...a little scared too...but looking on the brightside as much as I am able.

 

[jophil28]

OK Jopers, BB and the rest. Thank you all so much brothers for your support.
I am genuinely excited about chaning my life...a little scared too...but looking on the brightside as much as I am able.

Zunder, good job so far.
You are in the earleest phase of recovery - and the most vulnerable.

Two things to contemplate -
AA has a strategy called "one day at a time" . Basically it means that recovery is achieved in small chunks -24 hour chunks.
When I quit drinking I made a committment to myself every morning not to take a drink for that day only. Anyone can not drink for a day.
Then the next morning I made the same committment for that day ,and so on .
After a while all those days join together and turn into weeks and months ( in my case 20.5 years)

Secondly watch out for 'cross addictions' . It is common for guys in your position to increase their coffee consumption - no real problem there, BUT it is also common for some to jump into a SUGAR binge. IMO sugar addiction is almost as destructive as alcohol. Obesity is not a great trade off for your sobriety .

March on, Pte Zunder.

 

[Zunder]

Zunder, good job so far.
You are in the earleest phase of recovery - and the most vulnerable.

Two things to contemplate -
AA has a strategy called "one day at a time" . Basically it means that recovery is achieved in small chunks -24 hour chunks.
When I quit drinking I made a committment to myself every morning not to take a drink for that day only. Anyone can not drink for a day.
Then the next morning I made the same committment for that day ,and so on .
After a while all those days join together and turn into weeks and months ( in my case 20.5 years)

Secondly watch out for 'cross addictions' . It is common for guys in your position to increase their coffee consumption - no real problem there, BUT it is also common for some to jump into a SUGAR binge. IMO sugar addiction is almost as destructive as alcohol. Obesity is not a great trade off for your sobriety .

March on, Pte Zunder.

So when you take one of your dancing chicks on a date, they order a vino and you order a orange juice or whatever...whats the most common reaction? Just interested.

What about Pubs? You able to go to a pub and sit on a soda water and observe your mates getting smashed? Or do you just avoid the quintessential 'Aussie Hotel/Pub'?

 

[jophil28]

So when you take one of your dancing chicks on a date, they order a vino and you order a orange juice or whatever...whats the most common reaction? Just interested.

What about Pubs? You able to go to a pub and sit on a soda water and observe your mates getting smashed? Or do you just avoid the quintessential 'Aussie Hotel/Pub'?

In the vast majority of cases, my "teetotalling " ways work strongly in my favor with dates.
Women may ask, " Don't you drink ?"
I just say no.
It is rare that a woman will pursue a more detailed explanation. They just accept it and they often comment in a complimentary way .

As far as pubs go, I don't go to them . Clubs, yes .
Fortunately I do not have any friends who get "smashed ."

 

[backbreaker]

Z,

there will be a time where you can do everything that you used to do while you drunk. But you aren't there yet. It will be a few years. AA talks about this in the big book when it talks about your intentions to do something. Few years a girl wants to meet you at a pub for a date or you want to go watch a game, you can do so, but you aren't there yet. actually a pretty hot button issue in AA. depends on the person. eventually it wont' be that big a deal to you.

 

[backbreaker]

i came the closest i have ever come to releasping last night in over 5 years. just shows how this **** can creep on you.

got into a pretty big fight with my GF, went out driving just to get out the house and cool off, and what do you know i see a dude, that i know good and damn well uses at the gas station. he asks me for a ride. i give him a ride. in the back of my mind i know where he is rying to go. i take him there.

he was sizing me up the whole time.. ik now how the game works. see if i was down or not. I came close to saying **** it let's get down.

i don't know what it was about that time that made me almost relaspse, not like we have never got into a fight before.but you know what, i took my butt to a NA meeting this morning. fucccck that. i dont' want to go down that road again.