Vices and the Game

[Zunder]

I guess this could go in the Health forum but I want to know who has managed to kick their vices and how it affected not just their life in general but their social interactions, especially with women.

Also, any rejection from "friends" when you went clean?

So yeah, who here has managed to give up either smoking and/or drinking and how has it changed your life related to what I say above?

 

[jophil28]

Zunder, your questions deserve a detailed response but it wiser of me to ask for a few details from you first so that I can tailor a reply.
I have struggled with, and quit both of those vices successfully and left them in the dust.
Some info about your booze, drug, cigarette consumption would be helpful.
(and be forthright please, minimizing in reporting useage is common, but not helpful)

 

[Zunder]

Zunder, your questions deserve a detailed response but it wiser of me to ask for a few details from you first so that I can tailor a reply.
I have struggled with, and quit both of those vices successfully and left them in the dust.
Some info about your booze, drug, cigarette consumption would be helpful.
(and be forthright please, minimizing in reporting useage is common, but not helpful)

I have given up smoking and drinking for periods up to 18 months in the past...gone clean, got healthy, dare I say buff....and din't really socialise.

then hen I sart looking good again my confidence rises and I go out socially, start off with one or two drinks, feel good, drag on a few cigarettes...then in about three months after this I lose control and start binging on the booze and before I know it I am also on a pack or more of ciggs a day.

When I got oneitis early 2010 I basically lost the plot a bit and drank in some huge 18 hour biges to "escape" - but of course it made it worse. I got a bad case of depression, missed days - sometimes a week of work, and my oneitis got worse.

I am just about (say 90%) over my oneitis, but I still binge drink and smoke.

I will be frank: the thourhgt of giving up drinking and smoking, espcially drinking - forever is FVCKING SCARY.

I live in New Zealand and everyone seems to drink, well it seems like everyone does to me.

I just don't know how the hell I can cope with being in a bar or some other social function and not have a few drinks.

I don't want to become a hermit again - but I equally I don't want to be a slave to my vices either.

Its a connudrum. the answer sounds simple - just to STOP. But I wish it were that simple.

I also afraid that people will think I am a killjoy, a square etc etc.

Look - I know I should just STOP - but I started this thread to find out if people who have managed to kick their vices went through the same fears and anxiety as I am feeling right now.

 

[Julius_Seizeher]

Unfortunately, it is apparent that you have inner game issues.

Your resolve is weak and faltering, and you are looking for reasons to rationalize it. Stop avoiding the truth; you know what is right and what is wrong.

And are you really afraid to quit smoking and drinking for fear of what others will think? Or do you believe yourself hopelessly addicted to these chemicals, and fear the challenge of quitting?

I quit smoking a year ago, believe me it's no fun. But when you begin to live in harmony with your conscience, and to do what you know is right regardless of whether you want to do it, then you will be one step closer to self-mastery.

 

[Julius_Seizeher]

Unfortunately, it is apparent that you have inner game issues.

Your resolve is weak and faltering, and you are looking for reasons to rationalize it. Stop avoiding the truth; you know what is right and what is wrong.

And are you really afraid to quit smoking and drinking for fear of what others will think? Or do you believe yourself hopelessly addicted to these chemicals, and fear the challenge of quitting?

I quit smoking a year ago, believe me it's no fun. But when you begin to live in harmony with your conscience, and to do what you know is right regardless of whether you want to do it, then you will be one step closer to self-mastery.

 

[backbreaker]

i have some experience in this field as when i was 20-22 i went from nothing to drinking every once in a while to snorting coke to work longer hours, to freebasing on the weekends, to lock me in my house, throw away the key full blown crack cocaine addiction.

Also, any rejection from "friends" when you went clean?

No, but, ihad stopped talking to my friends, quote unquote before the addiction, becuase i found out they weren't really friends. Even though I used, I never really adapted the life style/ didn't hang out with addicts so I never had any real drug friends. I had 3 connections and like 1-2 people liked to smoke with, and they only called when i called them. None of my friends growing up were heavy users/ drinkers/addicts. Some people didn't even know utnil I started going ot NA that i was using in the first place, but that's becuase i just disappeared.

My oneitis ironically, is the only person I talked to pre use, during use and post use, while we weren't ****ing, she does cares for me, and was happy I got clean.

I will be frank: the thourhgt of giving up drinking and smoking, espcially drinking - forever is FVCKING SCARY.

I never had that problem with ****e,it wasn't that long into it I HONESTLY, didn';t want to do it anymore I just couldn't stop. it took me going to rehab for 2 months to get some kinda foudation before I could trhink with a clear mind.

see right now you aren't thinking with a clear mind. I drink, but i never had a problem with drinking, ever. even while using. I don't drink to get drunk. But if I was a black out drunk, or bidge drunk and it became a problem, then I would give it up.

You have to realize, **** women, this is effecting your life. you are destroying your body big time man, screw what it looks like or how it makes you feel.You DO have inner game issues, if you can't think of a life without getting high or drunk or buzzed. You are 40 years old man, it's time to start thinking about your long term health. Ben Frank once said that let a man's vices die before he does.

I don't want to become a hermit again - but I equally I don't want to be a slave to my vices either.

you have not hit that "stage" yet, doesn't matter the drug, sooner or later, if you keep going on like you are going, the fun wears off, and you are going to be the guy buying beer on a saturday to make sure you have enough for sunday and just lock yourself in a house and drink all weekend.It won't be a bar anymore becuase that's too expensive.\

when i first started doing ****e it was cute. i did it at work quite often, when i proressed to freebase i would rent a hotel room or go over a chicks house and get a quarte ror whatever, smoke and **** and we would 2-3 bindge smoke. getting your balls licked while you are hitting the pipe.. man that's the devil talking to you right there. But sure enough, 4-5 months later, i was too paranoid when i took a hit to leave the house or even worse, renting 3 hotel rooms around the city and rotting to all three lol becuase i thought the poice was coming. then, i wouldn't even bother calling anyone over, beucase they were "smokin too fast" or wasting my ****. It's the natural progression. The fact that you know they are a problem man you need to stop. You might find out it's harder than you think. Just because you took a break doesn't mean you can completely stop. you have to be able to go through life **** and not use. Too many people can sit at mom's house and not use or live in a rehab for a year and not use, but get fired from a job while trying to pay rent and not use, or get rejected and not use, or have a death in the family and try not using.

I also afraid that people will think I am a killjoy, a square etc etc.

1. you will be surprised at how many people don't drink or smoke
2. while i do drink, anyone who thinks someone is boreing beucase they don't put chemicals in their body are not people you want to hang around with. that's a pitiful way to live..

And are you really afraid to quit smoking and drinking for fear of what others will think? Or do you believe yourself hopelessly addicted to these chemicals, and fear the challenge of quitting?

I don't think it's inner game at all. I think he knows at a subconcious level he has a problem and is trying to convince himself not to give it up by telling himself he can stop when he wants, he just doesn't want to yet.

On one said, you have made like 10 rationalizations to keep doing something that you know, that isn't right.


If you have any inner game problems, it's the issues that you are killing your self esteem by doing something, after you have proven time and time again it's a problem, yet keep finding reasons to keep doing it.


today is jan 1st. I would try to go to 01/01/12 without drinking. if you can, good boy. But you in the time you will see all the areas of your life improve. to fuly answer your question, i firmly believe, i could not be where i am without going through everything i went through, including that, but at that point in time my self esteem had hit rock bottom. ol, actually the most plate active time i ever had iun my life was about a year in a half in AA, no drinks, no drugs no nothing, had more plates than i could fit on the table, and most of them were around NA/AA, no dates with drinking, and got too much nookie. lol, hell that should be the motivating reason for you to get clean. Lots of fun to be had living clean and sober man.

 

[runner83]

Zunder,

It's definetely good to kick them.

I've never had a problem with smoking apart from the couple of times I tried it (yck!) and the very occasional celebrational cigar.

Drinking can be hard to beat, since it is so much a part of culture, probably similar here in Aust to NZ. Everyone drinks - my parents, my mates, everyone...

In the past, I have given it up a couple of times, periods ranging from 30 - 60 days and felt much better for it.

For me the problem is not the urge to drink, but when I do, I always tell myself beforehand to limit myself but once I start, that all seems to go out the window.

The times I did give up drinking, when I was out, I'd normally just have a diet coke and after you order it, no one can tell if it has spirits in it or not.

It's also important to have goals to work towards, to justify giving it up. A few years back, it was training to run a marathon, whereas for this year, it will be the motivation to maximise my strength gains from my weight lifting.

So my plan at this stage is to go AF (alcohol free) for a month until the start of February and re-evaluate after that time.

Hope it goes well for you as well.

 

[backbreaker]

Zunder,

It's definetely good to kick them.

I've never had a problem with smoking apart from the couple of times I tried it (yck!) and the very occasional celebrational cigar.

Drinking can be hard to beat, since it is so much a part of culture, probably similar here in Aust to NZ. Everyone drinks - my parents, my mates, everyone...

In the past, I have given it up a couple of times, periods ranging from 30 - 60 days and felt much better for it.

For me the problem is not the urge to drink, but when I do, I always tell myself beforehand to limit myself but once I start, that all seems to go out the window.

The times I did give up drinking, when I was out, I'd normally just have a diet coke and after you order it, no one can tell if it has spirits in it or not.

It's also important to have goals to work towards, to justify giving it up. A few years back, it was training to run a marathon, whereas for this year, it will be the motivation to maximise my strength gains from my weight lifting.

So my plan at this stage is to go AF (alcohol free) for a month until the start of February and re-evaluate after that time.

Hope it goes well for you as well.

Even when I do drink I drink like a girly man lol, always have. I like my vodka but that's for home , when I am out i want the girliest drink I can find. I like long island, mai tai's, cosmo's, 7 and 7's. I love strawberry daiquiri's. When I wasn't drinking, and I went out, i would always order a virgin daiquiri. no one knows there is no alcohol in it. win win.

 

[Miles28]

I've never really had an issue with alcohol but cigarettes are a different story.

It sounds simple but when you go out the most important thing is to not have that first cigarette. Because if you're anything like me, having one or two cigarettes isn't possible. It will become twenty or thirty before the night is out, especially once you have a few drinks in you.

When I was hitting the bars and clubs every weekend I was at my unhealthiest, drinking and smoking a lot. I was just involved in a relationship which has crashed and burned. During that time I have hardly drank at all and I haven't smoked for a good couple of months. Thing is now I will probably end up going back to those same places - I know if I have even just the one cigarette then at some point, be it in a few days, weeks or months I will be back to smoking like a maniac.

 

[jophil28]

Girls think it's super hot because I'm a man standing for something that goes against the natural grain of things. I'll never compromise about drinking and it intimidates the hell outa people, men and women.

Indeed, both of the points that DonJerky makes are my experiences too.
To the regular drinkers out there it may sound crazy that alcohol abstinent men will get more women than drinkers -all other things being equal.

 

[zekko]

To the regular drinkers out there it may sound crazy that alcohol abstinent men will get more women than drinkers -all other things being equal.

Wow, I'm not so sure about that.

I used to smoke. Loved, loved, loved smoking. There was nothing like sharing a cigarette and some conversation. But it WAS stinky, turns the teeth gray, and is unhealthy. When I smoked, almost every time I caught a cold it turned into bronchitis. I haven't had bronchitis since I quit. So the lungs are clear, and I like that.

Another thing to watch out for when you quit smoking you can find yourself eating too much because you want a substitute for the "oral fixation".

As for drinking, I've never had a problem with drinking. I used to like to get drink when I was in my 20s. Now days I just don't really feel like it. I will drink something very rarely (maybe once or twice a year). Not because I won't do it, I just don't desire it. I'd rather have a coffee or an energy drink.

I actually think not drinking has hurt me a little socially. There's a comraderie you get drinking with someone, and it's contagious. Spending time with some friends at the bar (or camping, or whatever), sharing some good times, you bond over things like that. But admittedly, my girlfriend respects that I don't drink. She likes it because her ex used to get drunk a lot I guess.

But look at it this way: usually the friends you meet at the bar or the club aren't your real friends, are they? Bottom line: I'd rather do something productive.

Another thing I've noticed about drinking: There's a small window of time where you feel really good. And the rest of the time feels like crap.

 

[jophil28]

Wow, I'm not so sure about that.

I am.
While you drinkers are lined up at the bar waiting to buy another round I will have chatted up your g/f and then have her laughing on the dance floor.

 

[Buddha_Mind]

I'll tell you toking a bit of the ganja for me has helped me not desire much to drink nor have many cigarettes.

And yes it does effect short-term memory, it is an intoxication, but let's be honest it's a thousand times less worse than booze and cigarettes.

 

[zekko]

I am.
While you drinkers are lined up at the bar waiting to buy another round I will have chatted up your g/f and then have her laughing on the dance floor

First off, I am not a drinker. I think the last time I had a drink was the Christmas before last.

Secondly, you make a point why JOPHIL may get laid more than guys who drink. But you don't make much of a point why abstainers in general will get laid more than drinkers.

Even your example is set in an alcohol fueled situation. Since alcohol is a liquid panty remover, I would argue that drinkers are in such situations more often than abstainers. Not all abstainers enjoy going to places where alcohol is served. You might say that if you are willing to do this, you might clean up, that may be so. But honestly, to a sober person, there isn't much more annoying than a drunk person.

 

[Colossus]

Well smoking tobacco is a no-brainer. It's only a major risk factor for just about every disease on earth.

Drinking is tough. If all the alcohol in the world disappeared tomorrow I would not be too sad, but then again I've never had a strong affinity for it. I got hammered in college and whatnot, but I drink socially now and rarely get drunk. What zekko said is so true---that little window of time you feel great is never worth the sh!tty night's sleep, feeling like death warmed over the next day and being $50 poorer.

My thing was weed. I smoked almost daily for 5 years straight. I quit right before I started grad school. Best decision I ever made. I was mentally dependent on it....like it had to be tied in to my day somehow for me to have something to look forward too. Plus it makes you dumb after a while, but it's subtle so its easy to rationalize. I definitely think I would be a tad smarter if I never smoked....but it's a decision I made and it's a decision I have to live with. I have no problem with it as a drug; in fact I think it should just be decriminalized already. But personally I'm better without it.

 

[backbreaker]

the most ass i ever got in my life was substance free and it's not even close actually. that's not an excuse.

 

[jophil28]

But I'm tellin ya man, I stand out at any party I go to because I don't drink. Girls think it's super hot because I'm a man standing for something that goes against the natural grain of things.

Zeek, the quote above parallels my own experience.
I do not fully understand the psych involved BUT I do know that women are attracted to guys who stand out from the crowd in a way that demonstrates self control and an indifference to the 'push' .

 

[Zunder]

Some fantastic replies here folks. Thanks a lot.

I'd like more info about you Jophil and how you came to ditching both smoking and drinking.

Yes I i've picked up a few drunk chicks while I have been drunk myself..and yes wooptydey doooo about that. The quality chicks at bars do seem to be few and far between.

 

[zekko]

I do not fully understand the psych involved BUT I do know that women are attracted to guys who stand out from the crowd in a way that demonstrates self control and an indifference to the 'push' .

I agree that a lot of women will find a guy who ignores the "peer pressure" to drink attractive. I've hardly drank at all in the past twenty years, I just haven't felt like it. And I've been to plenty of situations where everybody was drinking. I do what I feel like.

But I still think the average drinker is going to be around alcohol more often than the abstainer. And women get very horny when they drink. Maybe a sober guy who has been trained in pickup and to cold approach will get a lot of women, but I still think a guy who "parties" regularly will fall into more opportunities than a teetotaler. All PUA stuff aside.

 

[Zunder]

I'm on my fourth day clean, I have given up the drinking FOREVER.
I feel quite 'empowered' actually - quite the opposite of what I thought I would feel.

Still working on the smoking.

I found the advice given on this website http://www.spiritualriver.com to be of great benefit - a different approach than the twelve steps.