upside-down pushups.

[DJBen]

Toys are out the pram now, arent they.

I've met farm workers stronger than gymnasts. I've also met some freakily strong people that do absolutely **** all apart from jack off half of their life. Some people are naturally stronger than others, some people get stronger doing one method of training, and others get stronger doing OTHER methods of training.

Whatever works for you works for you.

"Actually, working with weights will in no way come even close to developing the type of strength you get with body weight exercises. It's all about functional strength"

Although if we want to be picky, weights WILL do that for you. You CAN get functional strength from weight training too. Deadlifts, Squats, Benching is used worldwide for a whole variety of different athletes. Maybe they dont use tricep kick backs, preacher curls, shrugs and whatever else.

So if you know anything about me, you'll also know that I'm not against bodyweight excersizes. However you would know that squats, deads and benching - in a hell of a lot of peoples oppinions - will help you no end in increasing overall strength.

To be absolutely honest I couldnt give two shytes about your background, or your goals. Just the knowledge thats being put around. It's an internet forum, no one has anything to lose or gain except knowledge - and for someone to say truth is truth, when it's merely a single pathway, isnt 100% true.

 

[Soma]

You CAN get functional strength from weight training too

Then you and I must have a different definition of "functional strength".

squats, deads and benching - in a hell of a lot of peoples oppinions - will help you no end in increasing overall strength.

Of course. When was that ever questioned? But is weight training as benificial for you as training with your bodyweight? Absolutely not. Oh, and who cares about what other people's opinions are? This was about our opinions, yours and mine.

and for someone to say truth is truth, when it's merely a single pathway, isnt 100% true.

In many cases I'd agree with that statement. But in this instance, this is truth. You may believe otherwise, which is fine, but this battle of the ego's is boring me. We disagree and that's the way it is. Yabba dabba doo.

-Soma

 

[DJBen]

It's the truth because it's yours, and other peoples oppinions?

Deads, Squats and Benching is weight lifting. Thus it has been questioned, however since it doesn't perfectly fit in with your statements, you'll say it isnt relative so you cant be picked fault with. I'm yet to see anybody doing bodyweight deadlifts. Theres a mental image for you to laugh about. It's common knowledge that bodybuilders and functional strength trainers use bodyweight only excersizes. Sometimes they add weightbelts or kettlebelts, which is in effect weight training, but anyway I digress

But is weight training as benificial for you as training with your bodyweight? Absolutely not.

Explain, in depth, why that is. Not so anyone can stroke ego's, so that I can actually see some sort of proof of this.

In many cases I'd agree with that statement. But in this instance, this is truth.

Again, I'd love to see some scientific proof about this.

Something I'd also like to ask you....


It's thought that power comes from speed and force. Also, to stay strong, you need endurance. So why wouldnt benching X amount of weight with a lot more reps be that much different from doing X amount of weighted dips/ press ups.

 

[NRM]

Using your bodyweight as resistance vs using material weights as resistance.

If you're packing on mass by adding more weights, aren't you getting stronger? You definitely aren't getting weaker.

Weights DO have a place body building. And I do believe that they ARE as, if not MORE beneficial than bodyweight exercises. Your body was built FOR survival. Not just to hold yourself up and do simple compound motions. Your body was made to hunt, fight, move, lift, push, pull, MORE than just your bodyweight. Your body builds muscle and increases strength as needed by your enviroment. Soma, it might not be the same for you, but maybe YOU are the odd one out on this one, not the rest of the body building community.

When you put your body into a situation where you need more strength to accomplish something, such as lifting weights, your body will ADAPT and CHANGE in order to accomplish it, assuming you are well nourished and taken care of. Lifting weights isn't just about size, it IS about strength, you ARE getting stronger. I don't see any logical explanation as to why you would you would get weaker BUT bigger by lifting weights.

If going up weights every week isn't enough proof to you that you are getting stronger, then I just don't think you are open minded enough about this subject. I understand you are contributing from personal opinion and experience, but you really don't have any true science or theory to it besides that.

 

[CapiCrimini]

I actually agree with Soma. Ever since I started body-wieght exercise I feel stronger and more mobile. I can carry more.

Don't get me wrong. When I was benching 200lbs I felt strong too and had nice muscles. But after Bodyweight training I feel much more mobile and I guess the only way to describe it is "functional".

Anyway I do do weights for the muscles, I mean I like to look nice.

Thats just my opinion.

Whatever Works.

~Capi

 

[Soma]

Again, I'd love to see some scientific proof about this.

If you as interested in proof as you say, test it out for yourself. That's the ONLY way you'll know. If I had research done by President Bush himself and handed it to you on a golden platter...that wouldn't be proof. Because how would you know it's factual information? You could assume it was but that isn't actual proof. You need to find out for yourself. So go for it. Train hard both ways for 6 months each. In one year, on 9/17/05, post back here with your results.

why wouldnt benching X amount of weight with a lot more reps be that much different from doing X amount of weighted dips/ press ups.

It's two different ways of training. You don't do the same amount of reps with bodyweight as you would with metal weights. Not sure why you think you would.

If you're packing on mass by adding more weights, aren't you getting stronger? You definitely aren't getting weaker.

Of course you're getting stronger. That was never questioned.

Weights DO have a place body building.

As I said earlier, if you want to bodybuild and get BIG, then yes, you would hit the weights.

Your body was built FOR survival. Not just to hold yourself up and do simple compound motions. Your body was made to hunt, fight, move, lift, push, pull,

Exactly. Think about that. When you're punching, grabbing, kicking, running, jumping, fighting...are you doing ONE movement at a time? Isolating any of the muscles? No. When you punch your whole body moves. When you try to spear an elephant you're using your entire body. The ENTIRE muscular and skeletal system is moving and working together in a dynamic environment. Each muscle affects another in a chain of constant movement. The whole is greater than the sum of the individual parts. Isolating your muscles to do a bench press, or curl or whatever, does exactly the opposite of this. Your system is not working in tandem and there are gaps in the chain, so to speak, which reduces your overall strength.

Let's assign a stregnth value to each muscle, we'll use only a few as an example (bear with me, this will be a simple example). The numbers in the middle will show how coordinated the muscles are in working together.

Bodybuilding where muscles are isolated:

Chest - 50
10
Bicep- 25
10
Bicep - 25
10
Quad - 75
10
Quad - 75
10
Calf - 40
10
Calf - 40

Overall strength: 390

Person who trains with bodyweight:

Chest - 35
50
Bicep- 20
50
Bicep - 20
50
Quad - 45
50
Quad - 45
50
Calf - 35
50
Calf - 35

Overall strength: 535

The bodybuilder has the edge in an activity that requires muslce isolation. Anything that requires dynamic movement goes to the guy who trains with bodyweight. All the activities you quoted are DYNAMIC. Not static. Having isolated, big muscles, isn't natural and goes against what our bodies were designed to do.


-Soma