Upper body pressing movements lagging behind

[Kerpal]

I seem to have poor upper-body pushing strength. My presses (overhead and bench) are lagging way behind the rest of my lifts. They seem relatively low compared to my squat, deadlift and power clean and they improve EXTREMELY slowly. It literally takes me several months just to add 5 lbs onto them.

I also suck at bodyweight pressing movements like push ups and push up variations, both in strength and endurance. I can probably do a heavier weighted pistol squat than a weighted push up, and more pistols than push ups. Upper body pulling movements don't seem to be a problem. I progress quickly on all variations of chin ups and pull ups. I don't do curls or any other isolation exercises.

Also my lower body is way bigger than my upper body. I know it's supposed to be, but even taking that into account - I'm starting to look like the opposite of most of the guys at my gym who only do bench press and curls... maybe I will start wearing the opposite clothing that they do - instead of sleeveless shirts and track pants, I'll wear long sleeved shirts and really short shorts :crackup: I don't care much because I've stopped caring what I look like but something is definitely not right here.

Here are my numbers.

Squat: 1RM = 370 lbs (and I squat deep, my hamstrings touch my calves, every rep, no bull****).

Deadlift: 1RM = 405 (most I've ever actually pulled but think I should be able to do a little more - did it right after a 5RM PR and it's only 30 lbs higher than my squat. Judging by how my squat and deadlift have been in relation to each other in the past, I believe I should be able to pull around 425 for a 1RM).

Power clean: Never done a 1RM but best has been 5 x 3 x 190 lbs (that's 5 sets of 3).

And now the weak lifts:

Bench press: Never done a 1RM but right now I'm stuck at 3 x 5 x 160 lbs. I weigh 185 lbs. Most likely I can't even bench press my own bodyweight one time. This is pathetic. I have always sucked at bench pressing. I remember once in 8th grade our PE teachers made us lift weights one day. I couldn't even bench press 65 lbs. It was my first time ever doing bench press but still, that is pretty bad. Luckily, this is also the exercise I care least about.

Overhead press: Never done a 1RM but right now I'm stuck at 3 x 5 x 120 lbs. Seems too close to my bench press. I care about this exercise a lot more than I do about my bench press and I'd like to improve it substantially.

Any ideas on what the problem could be here?

 

[wolf116]

If you want to start improving your bench etc. you will have to ease up on the squats, deads and cleans. It's just too much for your body to progress all lifts at once.

Try only adding weight to your bench while keeping all other weights the same.

Drop cleans while you do this.

 

[Quagmire911]

Remembering that upper body progresses slower, however the numbers do seem a little skewed. I have had this problem and Stallion has as well I think.

Have you been training bench using 3x5 for a while? I used a method similar to this and stalled for months, I then switched to one set for 1x3-5, and then a downset of 1x-8-12 (using 15-20% less weight than the first set) and put 15-20 lbs on my bench in a matter of weeks.

See here: http://www.ironaddicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14524

I have also seen evidence that structural imbalance can have quite a big impact, see Poliquin article:

http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=459454

You could try the test and if anything is out of whack then you could work on bringing it up.

There is also the obvious issue of form, are you keeping your elbows tucked? Using an arch? Etc...

Your military press looks strong in relation to your bench...

 

[Throttle]

yeh you're bp looks like it's lagging, but only if you're doing it powerlifting style. they probably taught you in 8th grade PE to not arch, to use too wide a grip, etc. etc. are you doing any direct bi/tri work, and where's that at weight-wise?

 

[Kerpal]

No, I don't do any isolation movements.

8th grade PE class was the first time I ever bench pressed, and the instructors didn't tell us how to do it. They just put us in groups and told us to start lifting.

The 2nd time I ever benched, it was right after reading Starting Strength. So I'm pretty sure my form is good now. I arch, use a properly spaced grip, incorporate my lats, etc. Part of the problem may be that I just started barbell benching a few months ago. Before that, I only used dumbbells. But that doesn't explain why it's still moving so slowly now.

 

[kickureface]

LOL throttle, exactly how it was here, except it was 9th grade.
kerpal, i have the same problem as you, except just not as bad. i think you work on your lower body much more than your upper body, which probably is the main reason. i don't have advice on press, since i'm stalling on it now and it's a ***** to progress. for BP, are you thinking 'drive up' on the way down? it helped me a lot. it's in SS too.

 

[Mad Manic]

Lots of heavy low rep benching, and lots of heavy direct tricep work.

MM

 

[Quagmire911]

You could also try switching to close grip, trying decline/incline with either grip. You could do pause work, rack work, speed work...etc.

Ps-Also consider doing a muscle fiber test:

http://www.brianmac.co.uk/musclefibre.htm

 

[mrRuckus]

You probably have a forward head and slumping shoulders.

 

[Throttle]

i don't consider skullcrushers & close-grip bench to be isolation work, though obviously they're aimed mainly at the triceps.

here's a test: try benching both with a ridiculously wide grip (elbows flared to nearly 90 deg -- kids, don't try this at home) and a very narrow grip (as narrow as you can manage and still control a heavy bb). you should be able to lift somewhat more with the wide grip. if not, it really is your chest that's lagging. otherwise i'd suggest you think about incorporating skullcrushers or close-grip bench.

 

[Kerpal]

http://www.brianmac.co.uk/musclefibre.htm

Definitely slow-twitch dominant according to the Poliquin test and slow-twitch/mixed according to the Hatfield test ... but I'm not switching to high-rep sets, that's bodybuilding protocol *shudders*

kerpal, i have the same problem as you, except just not as bad. i think you work on your lower body much more than your upper body, which probably is the main reason. i don't have advice on press, since i'm stalling on it now and it's a ***** to progress. for BP, are you thinking 'drive up' on the way down? it helped me a lot. it's in SS too.

Yup, the whole bench press section in SS has helped me a ton. I'm going to start a Smolov Jr. cycle for the OHP next week since I'm stalled on that. I just worked out the numbers and it looks doable, my 2RM on the OHP is 135 so I'm going to assume my 1RM is 140.

Here is another thing that could be contributing to the problem: I have ridiculously long arms for my height. I am 71" tall and my "wingspan" is 75.5" Helps with deadlifts, but when benching or OHPing, I have to move the weight several inches farther than the average guy of the same height.

 

[Mad Manic]

Here is another thing that could be contributing to the problem: I have ridiculously long arms for my height. I am 71" tall and my "wingspan" is 75.5" Helps with deadlifts, but when benching or OHPing, I have to move the weight several inches farther than the average guy of the same height.

Well maybe they aren't lagging behind then, just factor the leverages in.

MM

 

[incognito42]

My suggestion would be dips. Do them everytime you have a chest workout day. I think its the most important chest exercis eyou can do, and for what you are looking for

 

[shaunuk]

My suggestion would be dips. Do them everytime you have a chest workout day. I think its the most important chest exercis eyou can do, and for what you are looking for

Hmm well, dips are a good chest exercise but Kerpal is more focussed on improving his bench and shoulder press. Dips don't seem to have much carryover to bench for most people

 

[Throttle]

I have to move the weight several inches farther than the average guy of the same height.

as MM suggests, it's not the distances involved but the amount of leverage (aka torque, aka mechanical advantage) you can generate relative to someone with shorter limbs.

 

[kickureface]

there really is no torque in bp and ohp movements though. the extra inches is the problem

 

[Throttle]

that's more even nonsensical than usual for this forum.

 

[kickureface]

only torque would be the slight rotation in the rotator cuff, which probably is not the main target group here

 

[Throttle]

nonsense. each half of each of your limbs is a lever, and your muscles generate rotational force (torque) about the relevant joint.

although presses look linear with respect to the weight being moved (typically presses are really moving in a very flat arc, not a truly linear motion, but you could accomplish a linear bench press, especially on a badly designed machine), they are never linear with respect to your muscles. your body can only generate linear motions by adding up opposing rotational forces.

check an anatomy book. all three types of muscle contraction (concentric, isometric, eccentric) generate rotational forces (torque).

 

[Kerpal]

Update

I have decided to start doing Pendlay rows. I had the thought that maybe the reason my bench press isn't going up is that I need to work the opposing muscle group, plus the upper back is incorporated into a proper bench press. I didn't do rows before, just did deadlifts, power cleans and pull/chin ups. It will be interesting to see if this helps my bench press.